What do you guys think of those who try not to execute Liches or Sisters?

[Knight_Ex]

Actually nvm cause honestly the lich system is horrible, DE should make it so that if you don't have your first requiem mod unlocked then your lich has 0 chance to spawn, that would get rid of a good chunk of the excuse "I can't kill my lich cause I don't know what my requiem mod in the first slot is,  Or make it so that if they don't have a mod in the first slot again their lich/sister has 0 chance of spawning.  I'm tired of dealing with people that don't take care of their lich/sister and let the thing roam the mission or expect the group to down it 3 times,   Its not entitlement to expect you to kill your lich/sister when the group is the one bringing it down, honestly its you being an entitled brat thinking you can leech of the rest of the group and not do your own part.  You're free to do what you like in warframe, but I'm also free to block you so we don't match make again.

Additionally I see people making the argument that DE changed things to make it easier for players to kill the lich/sister 3 times to make it leave and in some cases stop the blocking of other liches/sisters from spawning,   No you got that backwards, DE expects you to kill your Lich/Sister and gives you THREE chances to do so, if they did it for the sake of getting rid of the lich/sister they would have it only need to be downed once or twice, but no this is to give the player THREE chances to take down their lich/sister, not to force us to down them 3 times just to get them out of the mission without stabbing them, that would be stupid.

[(PSN)TrueSilentdeath]

vor 49 Minuten schrieb Knight_Ex:

No you got that backwards, DE expects you to kill your Lich/Sister and gives you THREE chances to do so, if they did it for the sake of getting rid of the lich/sister they would have it only need to be downed once or twice, but no this is to give the player THREE chances to take down their lich/sister, not to force us to down them 3 times just to get them out of the mission without stabbing them, that would be stupid.

No, you are wrong. Read the patchnotes, they are linked in this thread.

DE made it so that they dissapear after 3 downs, to give the players an additional option to get rid of them, instead of just leaving them be, they clearly stated this intention.

 

Btw. i don't care if stabbed or not and i have yet to come across someone ingame who cares.

[Sojufueled]

DE could solve this problem so easily and remove a lot of drama from the game by just making liches level up when whether or not they were killed.

[Aldain]

5 minutes ago, Sojufueled said:

DE could solve this problem so easily and remove a lot of drama from the game by just making liches level up when whether or not they were killed.

No, some people just need to suck it up and put in an ounce of prevention instead of a metric %*$#load of complaining by finding a squad that adheres to their intentions or accept that nobody has any control (or right to control) anyone else in PuG.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

9 hours ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

I think nothing of them because I do that type of content alone. 

I guess the only "fix" would be letting all nemesis.. wait that's copyrighted.. I mean all sisters/liches spawn. Then again, could be quite chaotic I'd assume. 

 I'm not sure..

No, the word nemesis isn’t copyrighted. There’s a Nemesis system in the diablo games 🤦 

What has been copyrighted, is the hierarchy nemesis system. With grunts, captains and overlords, and the ability to influence the hierarchy to your advantage. 

[Knight_Ex]

Or people could man up and just deal with their lich/sister leveling up, if they are not able to deal with that then maybe thats content they are not prepared for, This is why you see so many people asking for help in recruit/region chat in game with killing their lich/sister, maybe DE should have locked this content further into the game, all and all people will have different opinions, people will be toxic against people who don't stab, deal with it.

[FrostDragoon]

32 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

Or people could man up and just deal with their lich/sister leveling up, if they are not able to deal with that then maybe thats content they are not prepared for, This is why you see so many people asking for help in recruit/region chat in game with killing their lich/sister, maybe DE should have locked this content further into the game, all and all people will have different opinions, people will be toxic against people who don't stab, deal with it.

When will people learn? "Can't" and "Don't want to" aren't the same thing.

As for giving non-stabbers grief, this is purely born of ignorance, because there is a clear best approach here and it requires only stabbing when you have new information to work with (a fresh reveal that you don't know the order to yet). The always-stabbers are just aping their way through this instead of engaging their gray matter.

[Aldain]

37 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

Or people could man up and just deal with their lich/sister leveling up, if they are not able to deal with that then maybe thats content they are not prepared for

You are not obligated to random people complying or obeying your world views.

[(PSN)TrueSilentdeath]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb FrostDragoon:

As for giving non-stabbers grief, this is purely born of ignorance, because there is a clear best approach here and it requires only stabbing when you have new information to work with (a fresh reveal that you don't know the order to yet). The always-stabbers are just aping their way through this instead of engaging their gray matter.

The best way to phrase it, i have seen so far.

[Sojufueled]

6 hours ago, Aldain said:

No, some people just need to suck it up and put in an ounce of prevention instead of a metric %*$#load of complaining by finding a squad that adheres to their intentions or accept that nobody has any control (or right to control) anyone else in PuG.

It's not a worldview. It's just a stupid tactic created by an oversight.

[SneakyErvin]

5 hours ago, Knight_Ex said:

Or people could man up and just deal with their lich/sister leveling up, if they are not able to deal with that then maybe thats content they are not prepared for, This is why you see so many people asking for help in recruit/region chat in game with killing their lich/sister, maybe DE should have locked this content further into the game, all and all people will have different opinions, people will be toxic against people who don't stab, deal with it.

That post is the posterchild of stroking e-peens in public. While also at the same time completely missing why people do not stab their sister or lich.

Also... "man up"... in a game. El-Oh-El! Dont overflex those pixels mate.

[LillyRaccune]

1 hour ago, Sojufueled said:

It's not a worldview. It's just a stupid tactic created by an oversight.

Please do your research.

Here is your evidence from Update 26.1 2019-11-22 (also known as "Rising Tide"):

"Liches now run away (but don’t rank up) if you’ve downed them 3 times, but don’t use your Parazon on them. This allows you to overpower your Lich and have it flee, instead of having the only way to remove it from a Mission be your failure to know a Requiem."

This is a feature, not an oversight.

[LillyRaccune]

Because the thread has some rage issues and may possibly get locked soon, I wanted to separate the different groups of player comments that I've seen as the thread evolved. I've noticed four different "teams" so far.

 

Team "Elite" thinks players must always stab because "Level 5 Lich-Sisters are easy".

Spoiler

 

Team "Army of One" solo's every mission, so they are unconcerned.

Spoiler

 

Team "Pug" that just does whatever they want and supports both sides of the conflict.

Spoiler

 

Team "Know" wants to know at least one requiem before stabing.

Spoiler

 

[pwnSacrifice]

Before sisters of parvos update, I would have 100% agreed with this. I've certainly made some of the same arguments I've seen in this thread about it, HOWEVER, I'm now in the other camp entirely because of the Oull requiem. 

If you do not get a piece of information on every stab, then you're only slowing yourself down by 20-30 minutes a stab. With Oull, finding out the first and 2nd requiems before the first and 2nd stabs is very important to finding out the order quickly. Doing so means *at most* I need to do 4 stabs, typically 3. This means that yeah, there's a number of times on earth/mars that I've had to not stab my lich. 

Don't forget as well that getting murmur progress isn't the same barrier it was before and 3 missions into earth/mars I've got my requiem. I can't imagine I'm getting more requiems than all of you somehow, and thralls give a lot more than they used to, so stabbing a lich just for murmur progress just seems a lot less appealing these days.

Also, as a side note to this: This is only for early lvl 1 and 2 liches; I don't hesistate to stab Lvl 3 or 4s. Nor should you. 

 

Is it selfish of me to value my time over the potential benefit to my teammates from me taking a wild guess? 

[Famecans]

Suppose that is the first lich spawned on team to execute, we helped them to execute and the player chose not execute, then we have:

• Less murmur bonus.
• Blocks my lich's spawn.
• Blocks my requien mods test.
• More time wasted
• Same as all above multiplied by each player in the squad.

I don't like it but I understand an solo player.
It's not the player's problem, it's a game mechanics problem.

[Sazero]

2 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

Because the thread has some rage issues and may possibly get locked soon, I wanted to separate the different groups of player comments that I've seen as the thread evolved. I've noticed four different "teams" so far.

 

Team "Elite" thinks players must always stab because "Level 5 Lich-Sisters are easy".

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Team "Army of One" solo's every mission, so they are unconcerned.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Team "Pug" that just does whatever they want and supports both sides of the conflict.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Team "Know" wants to know at least one requiem before stabing.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Stop trying to steal my posts. They are copyrighted and you will hear from my warframe lawyer about this. I have contacted the cyberpolice and the consequences will never be the same again!

[LillyRaccune]

17 minutes ago, Famecans said:

Blocks my lich's spawn.

Your lich still has a chance to spawn. It isn't blocked.

[Famecans]

58 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

1 hour ago, Famecans said:

Blocks my lich's spawn.

Your lich still has a chance to spawn. It isn't blocked.

yes, but it's in the next mission, taking into account the situation that when someone doesn't execute his own lich everyone wants to extract immediately to make up for lost time.

[FrostDragoon]

30 minutes ago, Famecans said:

Suppose that is the first lich spawned on team to execute, we helped them to execute and the player chose not execute, then we have:

• Less murmur bonus.
• Blocks my lich's spawn.
• Blocks my requien mods test.
• More time wasted
• Same as all above multiplied by each player in the squad.

I don't like it but I understand an solo player.
It's not the player's problem, it's a game mechanics problem.

Let's think about this.

• Less murmur bonus? Who cares? You only need 2 requiems now. Whatever small amount of extra time you're taking here is more than made up for by not having to reveal your 3rd.
• I don't think it actually blocks your lich spawn anymore, unless you extract before it has a chance to. That was the point of letting you down it 3x without stabbing it to force it out of mission.
• Follows from above, no longer an issue unless you extract prematurely. Also lich spawns aren't guaranteed unless you use a beacon anyway.
• Same as point 1 above. You're actually saving more time than you're wasting. It's how opportunity costs work.
• Moot due to above explanations.

It is a mechanics problem, though. I agree. This thread really should just close and instead have a thread about "Dear DE, What Can Be Done About The Lich Conflict?" or similar idea. Direct it toward them, not each other.

[Famecans]

32 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

1 hour ago, Famecans said:

Suppose that is the first lich spawned on team to execute, we helped them to execute and the player chose not execute, then we have:

• Less murmur bonus.
• Blocks my lich's spawn.
• Blocks my requien mods test.
• More time wasted
• Same as all above multiplied by each player in the squad.

I don't like it but I understand an solo player.
It's not the player's problem, it's a game mechanics problem.

Expand  

Let's think about this.

• Less murmur bonus? Who cares? You only need 2 requiems now. Whatever small amount of extra time you're taking here is more than made up for by not having to reveal your 3rd.
• I don't think it actually blocks your lich spawn anymore, unless you extract before it has a chance to. That was the point of letting you down it 3x without stabbing it to force it out of mission.
• Follows from above, no longer an issue unless you extract prematurely. Also lich spawns aren't guaranteed unless you use a beacon anyway.
• Same as point 1 above. You're actually saving more time than you're wasting. It's how opportunity costs work.
• Moot due to above explanations.

It is a mechanics problem, though. I agree. This thread really should just close and instead have a thread about "Dear DE, What Can Be Done About The Lich Conflict?" or similar idea. Direct it toward them, not each other.

when the first lich spawns the following ones will be spawned in the same mission after execute the previous. each extraction/restart of mission takes about a minute so players make random teams to make everything more efficient.

are you telling me that maybe it's faster for me to perform a solo lich because the "team play" factor is less efficient? I can do this quietly but I thought the game stimulated multiplayer matches.

I saw here some comments hiding the truth of something that is obvious and they are simply playing solo and accepting the situation, I accept the situation but it's strange that the community itself doesn't support multiplayer as there is a thread complaining about a social problem in the mission.

repeating my observation from the previous comment: this social problem is caused by the game mechanics and not among the players.

[Knight_Ex]

44 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

Your lich still has a chance to spawn. It isn't blocked.

If you ignore the lich that spawns and let it roam refusing to down it, which Ive seen people do, usually people saying they don't want to kill their lich and refuse to down it themselves, this will impede other lich's and in some case more thralls from spawning,  again, this could all be fixed if DE would simply give 0 chance of your lich to spawn if you don't have the first requiem mod known, then people couldn't use the excuse that they aren't stabbing because they don't know the first requiem.

[FrostDragoon]

11 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

If you ignore the lich that spawns and let it roam refusing to down it, which Ive seen people do, usually people saying they don't want to kill their lich and refuse to down it themselves, this will impede other lich's and in some case more thralls from spawning,  again, this could all be fixed if DE would simply give 0 chance of your lich to spawn if you don't have the first requiem mod known, then people couldn't use the excuse that they aren't stabbing because they don't know the first requiem.

This would actually be an okay middle ground, even though people shouldn't stab the 2nd time until they know the 2nd requiem.

The better fix, imo, is that the first two spawns don't happen until you fill the murmer progress for the first 2 requiems, respectively. Sure, it means that you will miss out on those uber rare lucky stabs that happen before you reveal anything, but this seems a small price to pay to avoid the social issue this design created. This means that in squads on Earth and Mars, even if other people's liches spawn, they should be in a position to stab them and you can still get the murmer progress from it, but yours won't spawn unless you're ready for it to, saving everyone the time/hassle of dealing with it when you shouldn't be stabbing it yet anyway.

[Knight_Ex]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

That post is the posterchild of stroking e-peens in public. While also at the same time completely missing why people do not stab their sister or lich.

Also... "man up"... in a game. El-Oh-El! Dont overflex those pixels mate.

Would you prefer I use the term "git gud"?

[Aldain]

4 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

Would you prefer I use the term "git gud"?

I'd prefer you git lost personally.

[Knight_Ex]

2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I'd prefer you git lost personally.

Aw muffin :3