What do you guys think of those who try not to execute Liches or Sisters?

[OP-R8R]

Am 12.8.2021 um 11:28 schrieb (PSN)TrueSilentdeath:

You should use oull only on the 3rd slot, with 1 exception, you know only two words and you KNOW that the 3rd word lies on slot 1 or 2. Trying to guess with oull yields little to no new information

well, actually I use a different method with pretty high success rate

[OP-R8R]

Am 12.8.2021 um 11:16 schrieb FrostDragoon:

You still need the identity of the 2nd one, so you may end up not stabbing until you have that one too. It's up to the person if they want to guess on unknown quantities, but it's technically an inferior method. You don't have to like it, but that's what it is.

Even if I know the 2nd mod I wont know which position these 2 mods have until I start stabbling. In the end it does not matter if I figure the first one out without waiting... which leaves me with a potential 50/50 chance once I know the 2nd mod or if I wait and still have to figure out the position of 2 mods. That results in exactly the same number of guesses.

[FrostDragoon]

50 minutes ago, OP-R8R said:

Even if I know the 2nd mod I wont know which position these 2 mods have until I start stabbling. In the end it does not matter if I figure the first one out without waiting... which leaves me with a potential 50/50 chance once I know the 2nd mod or if I wait and still have to figure out the position of 2 mods. That results in exactly the same number of guesses.

It may not. Stabbing without knowing the ID of the 2nd one means you might over-level your lich and be stuck doing the crappy Kuva Fort for it.

[Renzo]

On 2021-08-03 at 6:38 PM, o0Despair0o said:

Doesn't matter what excuse you come up with, if you have a Lich/Sister and join a public squad, you stab them.

 

On 2021-08-03 at 6:51 PM, Voltage said:

Because it gives you murmurs and you should be guessing every stab? If you can't handle a level 5 Lich/Sister you shouldn't be in the system to be honest. Not stabbing while in a squad griefs others' progress.

My thoughts exactly. Non-stabbers (in pubs) are more than willing to accept the progress from other people's failed attempts to gain murmurs, but are not willing to stab theirs to give others progress.

Also, non-stabbers who excuse not stabbing their liches/sisters because they can't handle level 4 or 5 lich/sister are already doing their runs in public, which means there are up to 3 other people helping them with their lich/sister anyway. It is one thing to go solo against your nemesis, but when there are other players buffing and doing damage to help you is completely another thing.

[FrostDragoon]

1 hour ago, Renzo said:

 

My thoughts exactly. Non-stabbers (in pubs) are more than willing to accept the progress from other people's failed attempts to gain murmurs, but are not willing to stab theirs to give others progress.

Also, non-stabbers who excuse not stabbing their liches/sisters because they can't handle level 4 or 5 lich/sister are already doing their runs in public, which means there are up to 3 other people helping them with their lich/sister anyway. It is one thing to go solo against your nemesis, but when there are other players buffing and doing damage to help you is completely another thing.

"Can't" and "Don't want to" are different things. Grow up.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Renzo said:

Non-stabbers (in pubs) are more than willing to accept the progress from other people's failed attempts to gain murmurs, but are not willing to stab theirs to give others progress.

Of course they accept it, but at the same time they dont demand it. If it happens it happens, hence why they went PuG to begin with. If someone needs to stab their Lich you may aswell be in that group to get extra murmur progress. But if no one needs to stab their lich that is ok too. If you really need everyone to stab, why do you sign up to a RNG PuG to begin with when there are pre-mades?

[Renzo]

 

2 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

"Can't" and "Don't want to" are different things. Grow up.

Just to re-iterate, I am quoting some people writing this on the teamchat literally saying "I can't handle higher level lich". Also, I grew up decades ago, but thanks for the suggestion anyway.

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Of course they accept it, but at the same time they dont demand it. If it happens it happens, hence why they went PuG to begin with. If someone needs to stab their Lich you may aswell be in that group to get extra murmur progress. But if no one needs to stab their lich that is ok too. If you really need everyone to stab, why do you sign up to a RNG PuG to begin with when there are pre-mades?

Because pub is the fastest way of doing liches and sisters, not having to LFG for some specific group that comes and goes as their liches and sisters level up. Also if you join mission in progress you will get the already gotten murmur progress if there is any, which makes especially liches faster. Note that I don't mind at all if I start a mission of my own and clear the mission (like exterm) 90% when someone joins up and gets the progress I made so far, including a stab attempt that failed. I also don't mind if I happen join such mission.

[SneakyErvin]

35 minutes ago, Renzo said:

Because pub is the fastest way of doing liches and sisters, not having to LFG for some specific group that comes and goes as their liches and sisters level up. Also if you join mission in progress you will get the already gotten murmur progress if there is any, which makes especially liches faster. Note that I don't mind at all if I start a mission of my own and clear the mission (like exterm) 90% when someone joins up and gets the progress I made so far, including a stab attempt that failed. I also don't mind if I happen join such mission.

Sure they are fast but they also result in RNG behavior which should be expected and accepted. If someone looks for a certain behavior from everyone in a group then pre-mades are the only options. In PuGs everyone neededs different things and have other priorities.

[FrostDragoon]

1 hour ago, Renzo said:

Just to re-iterate, I am quoting some people writing this on the teamchat literally saying "I can't handle higher level lich". Also, I grew up decades ago, but thanks for the suggestion anyway.

Good for you, but just because one person told you that in a squad once doesn't mean you get to bring that assumption to everyone that doesn't want to farm them in the Kuva Fort. Crying because someone is doing what is optimal for them and you don't like to experience FOMO is childish, so you clearly still have plenty of growing up to do.

[Renzo]

31 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

Crying because someone is doing what is optimal for them and you don't like to experience FOMO is childish, so you clearly still have plenty of growing up to do.

Good thing you've clearly grown up and still going for personal attacks though.

[Eihder]

If i dont want to level my sister or litch why should i? Really the only argument for stabbing is that YOU personally benefit from murmers. Then you say such people should solo.. but if you can one shot 9999 enemies why are you in a pug? Thats right, to make it faster and leech. Why dont you just run your sister or leech solo and one shot them guessing exact mods on the first time like you claim to be able to do? Not like you are going to stick around for my level 5.

[-Augustus-]

12 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

If it happens it happens, hence why they went PuG to begin with.

So you admit they specifically went there to leech, without any intention of stabbing their own lich. There's a number of words for such people, any of which would trigger moderator action...I leave it up to your imagination, but we all know what those sorts of players are. 

[Aldain]

10 minutes ago, -Augustus- said:

So you admit they specifically went there to leech

What about the other 3 people who are leeching murmers off of the failed stab test of one person even if that person is blind testing because of bad anger RNG?

Not that it matters to me really, I solo my Liches, and I only stab them when I have a revealed requiem to test because all the BS in this thread.

[FrostDragoon]

32 minutes ago, -Augustus- said:

So you admit they specifically went there to leech, without any intention of stabbing their own lich. There's a number of words for such people, any of which would trigger moderator action...I leave it up to your imagination, but we all know what those sorts of players are. 

Yep. Those people are called "regular players just trying to optimize on a flawed system." Not sure why a moderator would need to action that, though. Seems like a weird take.

[FrostDragoon]

8 hours ago, Renzo said:

Good thing you've clearly grown up and still going for personal attacks though.

Yeah, you may be right. Your continual use of "no u" is so grown up. How could I have missed this before?

 

Let me sum up this thread for you:

[(XBOX)ScooterLaroo]

I see two ways this goes:

1. The person's lich decides to pop on in, but the player who has the lich just downs it three times and it leaves, so then the group can get back to their mission at hand. The reason behind it being they don't want to waste time farming for more enrage and don't have or have the right mods equipped to do it properly.

To me, this is fine, they down the lich and it leaves, leaving quicker if others help in totally curb stomping them into the ground.

2. The lich summons and no one attacks it or the person just ignores it and doesn't help to take it down.

This is very much annoying. While I've never had this issue before since I've always soloed my Liches and Sisters, I can see the issue behind it if it is a normal mission. However, if it is a murmur farm, both the Sisters and Liches increase the spawn of their respective whisper givers, an extra early or late-game hound and multiple thralls. (IIRC)

So it depends on the mission. If it is for Murmurs, it may not be so bad since they increase the spawn of Whisper Bois. But if it is a normal mission or pray-tell a defense mission of any kind, and no one does anything about it, then yes, that is very much an annoyance.

[OP-R8R]

Am 13.8.2021 um 15:38 schrieb FrostDragoon:

It may not. Stabbing without knowing the ID of the 2nd one means you might over-level your lich and be stuck doing the crappy Kuva Fort for it.

That is literally impossible since by that time you most definitely know the neccessary mods. After getting the first mod the primary task is to figure out the positions asap and when using Oull you can very often solve after just 2-3 tries. If you are lucky with the position of the first mod you even have a ~15% chance to solve on the very first guess.

[Fallen77]

Il y a 21 heures, FrostDragoon a dit :

"Can't" and "Don't want to" are different things. Grow up.

Nice to see you're still flailing around this nonsense.

So... you just don't want to deal with a lvl5, and you're gonna make me believe that it's completely completely separated from you having trouble properly dealing with a lvl5 right ? It absolutely could not be that you don't want to BECAUSE you can't right ?

Because I have my own theory on what could be pushing you to go through with a method so convoluted and detrimental to others... because you somehow can't or don't want to deal properly with a lvl5, thus leading to you having a bad time doing it (aka you can't do it properly), thus leading to you not wanting to do it.

As you see, indeed those terms mean different things, but depending on the subject at hand, they can be very much linked, borderline implying the same thing.

 

There, didn't think I'd have to explain basic speech but you're insisting so much on this broken argument, I prefered deconstructing it in detail so you can avoid the embarassment in the futur. At least we shouldn't have to go over basic shapes and colors, well, I hope so... 

Don't tell people to grow up if that's your comeback, as it's just a gross oversimplification of what those terms imply in this context. Should you have spent a minute thinking it through, you'd already know how hollow your response was.

 

Can we lock this thread already ? 

It's not like any one side of the argument will ever let go... (even if one is objectively better in every way and for every one)

 

[FrostDragoon]

35 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

Nice to see you're still flailing around this nonsense.

So... you just don't want to deal with a lvl5, and you're gonna make me believe that it's completely completely separated from you having trouble properly dealing with a lvl5 right ? It absolutely could not be that you don't want to BECAUSE you can't right ?

Because I have my own theory on what could be pushing you to go through with a method so convoluted and detrimental to others... because you somehow can't or don't want to deal properly with a lvl5, thus leading to you having a bad time doing it (aka you can't do it properly), thus leading to you not wanting to do it.

As you see, indeed those terms mean different things, but depending on the subject at hand, they can be very much linked, borderline implying the same thing.

 

There, didn't think I'd have to explain basic speech but you're insisting so much on this broken argument, I prefered deconstructing it in detail so you can avoid the embarassment in the futur. At least we shouldn't have to go over basic shapes and colors, well, I hope so... 

Don't tell people to grow up if that's your comeback, as it's just a gross oversimplification of what those terms imply in this context. Should you have spent a minute thinking it through, you'd already know how hollow your response was.

 

Can we lock this thread already ? 

It's not like any one side of the argument will ever let go... (even if one is objectively better in every way and for every one)

 

You really struggle with the concept of preference, don't you? Sad puppy.

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, -Augustus- said:

So you admit they specifically went there to leech, without any intention of stabbing their own lich. There's a number of words for such people, any of which would trigger moderator action...I leave it up to your imagination, but we all know what those sorts of players are. 

Nope, those people play the game as intended in a PuG, what happens happens. If you expect something else, well... dont PuG. And I dont see how the word PuGer or regular gamer would trigger moderation. 🤔

[Fallen77]

Il y a 6 heures, FrostDragoon a dit :

You really struggle with the concept of preference, don't you? Sad puppy.

Alright, I suppose basic speech understanding was too much to ask.

You surely took down my argument here buddy, truly convincing.

[Merrcenary]

okay from reading posts here i see one solution: make lich/sister farming SOLO only.

boom, problem solved: no one will "slow down" your murmur farming because they don't want to stab it right now and, also, no one will be leeching murmurs from your stabs

[T-Shark69]

3 minutes ago, Merrcenary said:

okay from reading posts here i see one solution: make lich/sister farming SOLO only.

boom, problem solved: no one will "slow down" your murmur farming because they don't want to stab it right now and, also, no one will be leeching murmurs from your stabs

There is nothing to change here. No one in chat complains. Games fine as it is.

[FrostDragoon]

31 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said:

There is nothing to change here. No one in chat complains. Games fine as it is.

It really is just a few people here whining about it. The game is fine. Just entitled forum crybabies as usual.

[Gamma745]

16 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

Nice to see you're still flailing around this nonsense.

So... you just don't want to deal with a lvl5, and you're gonna make me believe that it's completely completely separated from you having trouble properly dealing with a lvl5 right ? It absolutely could not be that you don't want to BECAUSE you can't right ?

Because I have my own theory on what could be pushing you to go through with a method so convoluted and detrimental to others... because you somehow can't or don't want to deal properly with a lvl5, thus leading to you having a bad time doing it (aka you can't do it properly), thus leading to you not wanting to do it.

As you see, indeed those terms mean different things, but depending on the subject at hand, they can be very much linked, borderline implying the same thing.

 

There, didn't think I'd have to explain basic speech but you're insisting so much on this broken argument, I prefered deconstructing it in detail so you can avoid the embarassment in the futur. At least we shouldn't have to go over basic shapes and colors, well, I hope so... 

Don't tell people to grow up if that's your comeback, as it's just a gross oversimplification of what those terms imply in this context. Should you have spent a minute thinking it through, you'd already know how hollow your response was.

 

Can we lock this thread already ? 

It's not like any one side of the argument will ever let go... (even if one is objectively better in every way and for every one)

 

I can't believe I have to show this screenshot again...

Again, DE themselves never forced anyone to always stab your Lich/Sister when you see them. In fact, they encouraged you to know your requiem first, then try them out. Learn to acknowledge other people opinions if you want yours to be acknowledged as well.