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What do you guys think of those who try not to execute Liches or Sisters?


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2 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

Waiting until you have all three doesn't eliminate the risk of a Rank 5.  I'm not going to try to talk through the odds, because I already know someone will either know enough to kick it in the head or *assume* they know enough and stomp the numbers anyway.

But speaking from experience:  I've had to completely clear Earth once to get all three without stabbing.  (Free rank up to 2 for the Lich.)  Then when I had all three, I managed to put *both* of the wrong runes in the first slot (rank 3 and 4), and then failed *again* on the order for slot 2.  (And that's 5.)  It makes Rank 5 less likely, especially for Sisters since robo-hounds are just worth way more murmurs.  I had to drive the Lich off before she could convert thralls a couple times because she either dropped into an area where nothing was still alive, or right on top of a Mobile Defense target or something and I didn't want to risk failing the mission by letting her fire her rocket launcher bow at it.

So, risk of Rank 5 is lower, but not gone.  And I don't think it's "exploitative," especially when there's the inherent trade-off of having to mostly solo it so I don't have to deal with impatient tryhards who'd rather abort and eat a mission fail just for spite when I don't stab the instant my Sister shows up.

Unless you got astronomically unlucky and your Lich did not spawn on Earth at all, it was 100% possible to avoid a Rank 5 Lich, as I laid out here

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Just now, TARINunit9 said:

Unless you got astronomically unlucky and your Lich did not spawn on Earth at all, it was 100% possible to avoid a Rank 5 Lich, as I laid out here

I'm just stating what happened.  This was after the Sisters update, so increased Mumur progress for thralls.  I still had to eat a rank-up to 2 to get the final rune.  Is it possible to get them all on Earth?  Yes.  As I stated, I got unlucky because a number of times she *did* show up I didn't get any "conversion" thralls.  (And it's likely that since I don't actually count them, I completed a couple of other missions without squeezing out every last "natural" Thrall that could possibly spawn - ie, "enough to clear the node," but less than "maximum allowed.")

I don't have numbers, I didn't write the mission progress down.  It's only happened once, which is why I still prefer to get all three Runes before attempting a Parazon.  I'm just pointing out that it *can* happen, and the risk of Rank 5 isn't completely eliminated.

But hey, the "everyone must always stab everytime forever" players are the ones that seem to need a porkchop tied around their necks so the dog will play with them.  At this point I'm fine with dealing with the Liches solo until I get completely sick of fighting them at all.  (Again.)  So they get 100% of NOTHING from my Lich, not even Conversion Thralls / Hound attacks.  Which is what they seem to want, I guess?

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1 minute ago, EmberStar said:

I'm just stating what happened.  This was after the Sisters update, so increased Mumur progress for thralls.  I still had to eat a rank-up to 2 to get the final rune.  Is it possible to get them all on Earth?  Yes.  As I stated, I got unlucky because a number of times she *did* show up I didn't get any "conversion" thralls.  (And it's likely that since I don't actually count them, I completed a couple of other missions without squeezing out every last "natural" Thrall that could possibly spawn - ie, "enough to clear the node," but less than "maximum allowed.")

I don't have numbers, I didn't write the mission progress down.  It's only happened once, which is why I still prefer to get all three Runes before attempting a Parazon.  I'm just pointing out that it *can* happen, and the risk of Rank 5 isn't completely eliminated.

But hey, the "everyone must always stab everytime forever" players are the ones that seem to need a porkchop tied around their necks so the dog will play with them.  At this point I'm fine with dealing with the Liches solo until I get completely sick of fighting them at all.  (Again.)  So they get 100% of NOTHING from my Lich, not even Conversion Thralls / Hound attacks.  Which is what they seem to want, I guess?

It honestly never occurred to me to not stab i just didn't see any profit from not stabbing but now i see there can be benefits....still gonna stab since tho.

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As much as I agree with this:

Just now, EmberStar said:

But hey, the "everyone must always stab everytime forever" players are the ones that seem to need a porkchop tied around their necks so the dog will play with them.  At this point I'm fine with dealing with the Liches solo until I get completely sick of fighting them at all.  (Again.)  So they get 100% of NOTHING from my Lich, not even Conversion Thralls / Hound attacks.  Which is what they seem to want, I guess?

You kinda screwed yourself over by doing this:

1 minute ago, EmberStar said:

Is it possible to get them all on Earth?  Yes. 

I'm still in the Not Stabbing faction, but as soon as I have One Unveiled I go straight for the stab. There's no benefit to waiting beyond that. If the correct order is "Khra Fass Netra", then "Netra Lohk Vome" is equally as wrong as "Netra Fass Khra"

Unless the entire thing was an experiment to see "are there enough thralls on Earth to get Three Unveiled?" In which case more power to you

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9 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

As much as I agree with this:

You kinda screwed yourself over by doing this:

I'm still in the Not Stabbing faction, but as soon as I have One Unveiled I go straight for the stab. There's no benefit to waiting beyond that. If the correct order is "Khra Fass Netra", then "Netra Lohk Vome" is equally as wrong as "Netra Fass Khra"

Unless the entire thing was an experiment to see "are there enough thralls on Earth to get Three Unveiled?" In which case more power to you

It's that I'm not a master of statistics.  If I wait till I have all three, then it *seems* like I have a 1/3 chance of getting the correct first run (because I know all three are correct but not the order.)  If win the roll and get that right, there's a 50/50 chance that the next pair are in the correct order and I exile her to Railjack at Rank 1.  My goal is to level the Lich/Sister as little as possible.  IE, I will NEVER stab unless I know all three runes and have at least *some* chance of getting a clear on the first attempt.  If I don't plan to keep a Lich/Sister as a Railjack summon, there's NO benefit to letting them level up, EVER.  It doesn't make the weapon stronger, and getting that is literally the only part of the system I actually care about.

*Edit*  And no, I don't consider the tiny amount of Kuva from a stab attempt to be of any value whatsoever.  When I do get Rivens, unless they're for a weapon I like and are reasonably powerful outright, I melt them down for Endo.  I don't try to sell them, and I rarely bother to reroll them.  I have half a million Kuva, and I do NOT go out of my way to get it.  So the Kuva from a stab attempt has less than no value to me.

Edited by EmberStar
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30 минут назад, (PSN)max141064 сказал:

You don't reward people if they don't do their job. 

you reward them if they go out of their way to actually do it. 

my job is to kill my lich, not throwing money murmurs all over the place to a random people

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5 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

It's that I'm not a master of statistics.  If I wait till I have all three, then it *seems* like I have a 1/3 chance of getting the correct first run (because I know all three are correct but not the order.)  If win the roll and get that right, there's a 50/50 chance that the next pair are in the correct order and I exile her to Railjack at Rank 1.  My goal is to level the Lich/Sister as little as possible.  IE, I will NEVER stab unless I know all three runes and have at least *some* chance of getting a clear on the first attempt.  If I don't plan to keep a Lich/Sister as a Railjack summon, there's NO benefit to letting them level up, EVER.  It doesn't make the weapon stronger, and getting that is literally the only part of the system I actually care about.

All of this is true in isolation, but again you're forgetting the hard truth:

[wrong spot] [wrong mod] [wrong mod] is equally as wrong as [wrong spot] [wrong spot] [wrong spot]. And they provide equally as much information to your checklist.

Let me break it down for you...
My method:

Spoiler

Correct order is Khra Fass Netra

Unvieled order is Netra Fass Khra

Rank 1: Netra Lohk Vome. Lich ranks up

Rank 2: Fass Netra Lohk. Lich ranks up

Rank 3: Khra Netra Fass. Lich ranks up

Rank 4: Khra Fass Netra. Lich dies

Your method:

Spoiler

Correct order is Khra Fass Netra

Unvieled order is Netra Fass Khra

Rank 1: Netra Fass Khra. Lich ranks up

Rank 2: Fass Netra Khra. Lich ranks up

Rank 3: Khra Netra Fass. Lich ranks up

Rank 4: Khra Fass Netra. Lich dies

Those are both worst case scenarios. Notice how they are functionally identical. Your method has a better "best case" (1 in 6 chance of a single stab kill vs 1 in 56 chance of a single stab kill) but their "average case" and "worst case" are both the same. Not just same statistics, same methodology

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5 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

All of this is true in isolation, but again you're forgetting the hard truth:

[wrong spot] [wrong mod] [wrong mod] is equally as wrong as [wrong spot] [wrong spot] [wrong spot]. And they provide equally as much information to your checklist.

Let me break it down for you...
My method:

  Reveal hidden contents

Correct order is Khra Fass Netra

Unvieled order is Netra Fass Khra

Rank 1: Netra Lohk Vome. Lich ranks up

Rank 2: Fass Netra Lohk. Lich ranks up

Rank 3: Khra Netra Fass. Lich ranks up

Rank 4: Khra Fass Netra. Lich dies

Your method:

  Reveal hidden contents

Correct order is Khra Fass Netra

Unvieled order is Netra Fass Khra

Rank 1: Netra Fass Khra. Lich ranks up

Rank 2: Fass Netra Khra. Lich ranks up

Rank 3: Khra Netra Fass. Lich ranks up

Rank 4: Khra Fass Netra. Lich dies

Those are both worst case scenarios. Notice how they are functionally identical. Your method has a better "best case" (1 in 6 chance of a single stab kill vs 1 in 56 chance of a single stab kill) but their "average case" and "worst case" are both the same. Not just same statistics, same methodology

That's nice.  I don't care.  I'm still never going to make the attempt until I have all three.

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In my own case i will stab them every time i actually have found a requiem that needs testing. If its the first mission on a planet and i don't have anything to test other than just going completely random i wont waste my time. 

I really don't mind people skipping stabs as i understand why they probably don't want to fight a rank 5 lich. The bug where the lich refuses to despawn after three downings needs to be fixed however. In either case i myself do not want to end up with a rank 5 lich/sister as they are basically pure cancer to fight due to absurd damage reduction that makes it take forever. It doesn't help that once you go past rank 3 then public groups become scarce. If i was with a group of friends that i knew would stick around to help, sure i wouldn't mind stabbing every time and risk a rank 5, but pugs wont stick around at all. Sometimes they wont even help with the fights and just bolt for extraction and force a host migration or extraction mid fight.

Aka public groups are all people in it for themselves first, their friends second and the random others last, don't expect anything else.

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1 hour ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Like the other user who quoted you, I am not sure this is analogous to the Prisoners Dilemma. Though its been a long time since I had a deeper understanding of game theory, so I am forgetting a lot of terminology (and maybe points) I could be using. So forgive me my lack of articulacy. Also, do you notice something about your framing? Despite framing it as mathematically, you assign a lot of positivity and weight, with terms like "always, definitely, everyone, benefit" to stabbing. Then with non stabbing, you start to lean on uncertainty "risk, possibly" but in actuality, there are many scenarios, where murmur progression for an individual or even grouping or majority in an instance is secondary to knowledge, which benefits time/ease. Of course, the make up of that scenario and instance will differ.

First of all, being in the Always Stab camp, I do not pretend I am without biases, conscious or not.  But in defense of these word choices, these are necessary because that is how the payouts are set up by DE.  When you stab, everyone in the squad (yourself included) is guaranteed a murmur payday.  Additionally, you could win the gamble and skip much further along by identifying one or more words and positions immediately, although more likely you will end up with a leveled up lich and only minimal information gain.  When you do not stab, you and your team are guaranteed to lose out on the flood of murmurs, and you are guaranteed to have the lich not level up for now.  Additionally, you could end up with less missions total and you could end up with a lower level lich in the end.  If I made a mistake in identifying the surety of a payout, please do correct me.

1 hour ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

There is a specific term/definition for what i say next, but I can't recall, maybe you can help me out. Its when a group of an individuals are in a situation to help themselves collectively/benefit from a reward, but their perception of what is expected from the group is unequal with what they actually personally want. Then everyone in that group, goes with what they think everyone wants, even though they (in this scenario) wanted something else, and in the end, they end up short changing each other. 

Hmm...  The best I can think of is the aphorism, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"?  But I do not think it has any scientific basis, so perhaps it is not what you are thinking about?

1 hour ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

If you have a situation where 4 Warframe players have their second match when Sister Hunting, lets say its a Survival. Lets say that all of them are going to learn their first Requiem, just from the Hounds alone. All 4 will benefit from downing VS stabbing. Except... they mistakenly believe that everyone will benefit from the blind stab and that is expected of them, so they all do. Mathematically speaking, their will be more missions. Not absolutely, statistically you will get lucky now and then. Again, thats a specific scenario and instance, sometimes players will be on their 4th mission, another their first. The knowledge and understanding can carry over. So when looking at, or trying to understand the motivation, reasoning justification of a player, we can assess whether their behaviour was cooperative, or uncooperative... or well... how would you frame intermediate cooperation here? Is it "we should all stab blindly, because the sheer amount of murmur progression will offset anger resets, and time invested in regaining it, as well tougher enemies, which take longer" or is it "if you have a good reason not to stab, that is fine, because whilst I am currently incentivised to stab, and you will make progression off myself, but not vice versa... i know that I may be in your position in another match, and my current attitude towards you now, may determine attitudes about myself in the future, and if everyone had our knowledge and transparency, ultimately we'd all benefit" as well as a few other justifications/approaches. 

Now that is an interesting scenario you brought up, and exactly why I believe this stab/don't stab decision is based on the Prisoner's Dilemma.  Let's check the cases individually:

1. If no one stabbed (everyone Defects).  In this case, everyone ends up with no lich level up and just the 1 word they gained from the Hounds in this mission.
2. If some stabbed and others did not (some Cooperate, some Defect).  In this case, the non-stabbers do not incur a lich level up while the stabbers do.  Everyone gains around 1.5 words (the first and maybe halfway to the second).
3. If everyone stabbed (all Cooperate).  In this case, everyone incurs a lich level up, yet everyone also gains 2 words instead of 1.

So just like the Prisoner's Dilemma, the worst individual position is to be the only stabber (Cooperator) amongst a group of non-stabbers (Defectors), and the best individual position is to be the only non-stabber amongst a group of stabbers.  The worst team position considering all players is to have everyone be a non-stabber, and the best team position considering all players is to have everyone be a stabber.  Now you may not agree with the team positions if you believe a lich level up is a greater penalty than 1 more unveiled word, but we should agree on the assessment of the individual positions, right?

2 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

So if I had to summarise why I think comparing stabbing to Prisoners dilemma breaks down, its because you framed Stabbing as Cooperation and Not Stabbing as Defecting. Aside from using language to further frame one in a positive the other a negative (which may have been unintentional) this isn't strictly the case. There are also complications due to prisoners different level of understanding about the game, the nature of the rewards/penalties changing from scenario to scenario, different starting points for the prisoners. A lot that basically creates conditions that would require further elaboration/mathematical models. Add in differences between actual actual cooperation (friends playing vs PUG's) and the data that can show us. Also what version of the Prisoners Dilemma are you saying applies the approach you mentioned as the near optimal strategy? I can't go to the link you posted right now, but I am familiar with Prisoners Dilemma and game theory. Are you referring to Tit for Tat? 

Please do not fault me for the terminology.  Those were invented ages ago and not by me.  As for why Stab = Cooperate and not Stab = Defect, see the previous section where it comes to payouts and best/worst positions to be in.  Yes, Tit for Tat is the "near optimal" strategy I was referring to.  I will not spoil Nicky Case's game for you, but there is a better one, and actually addresses some of the complexities you mention, such as information disparity and mistakes.  "Tit for Tat" is called "Copycat" in the game, btw, don't ask me why.

2 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Also finally what of the players who are like me. In PUG's I am an "always stabber" but I also don't think its possible to be a Leech in this system. My strategy is aware that not everyone knows the nature of the game, and that the rewards/punishments aren't even/equal as well. In a iterated prisoner's dilemma, my personality type incidentally automatically fulfils many of the optimal conditions for the optimal approach, save for one... which could draw myself into conflict and thats, that I wouldn't see a need to "retaliate" as some players may view that some will view players like myself as being exploited. Except again, this is all going under the premise stabbing/not stabbing neatly fits a 1:1 with PD. If you have a non Prisoner who can reward a Prisoner with minimal penalty to themselves, and has no expectation of rewards, but you are also cognisant of the idea there are many Prisoners (and some Non Prisoners) it... its why in game theory is larger than than PD, and why if we apply PD to various real life situations that may have overlap, it comes with disclaimers, additional context and info to account for more variables/complications etc (asymmetric prisoner's dilemmas for example)

That all being said, I am glad you did bring it up, even if I disagree on the premise, just because it was interesting to think and discuss. So thank you! 

As already disclosed, I too am an "always stabber".  Although I do try to take names when I can and ignore those who I'm pretty sure is intentionally not stabbing so I will not play with them again.  I always love a good discussion, even if we may not agree in the end.  If you enjoy game theory then please do remember to check out the game when you get a chance -- if nothing else, it will be a fun refresher!  Cheers!

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5 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

That's nice.  I don't care.  I'm still never going to make the attempt until I have all three.

Your loss, was just hoping to save you a little time on the average case

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1 минуту назад, (PSN)max141064 сказал:

you answered it yourself.

your job is to kill your lich.

kill it. 

and i'm actually killing it the way i prefer
if you don't like that people don't give your free murmurs then it is your own problem

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Just now, Orakan said:

If you are playing on public you need to execute your nemesis otherwise you will stealing other's valuable time

I'll make you a deal: I will stab my Lich at your command, if YOU stay in the squad until all four liches are dead.

Bonus Murmurs are exactly that: a bonus. Not a guarantee. I do not want my Lich to rank up to Rank 5 when I could keep it at a lower rank, because that wastes MY time. Rank 5 liches suck, and if you're just going to leave the squad before I have to fight them regardless of whether I obeyed your wishes then I'm not going to let them get to Rank 5

The ultimate culprit here is the game design, but until it gets fixed the least we could do is not attack each other over it

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So long as the person downs the lich/sister 3x and literally doesn't just leave it, then it's fine. It's those that straight up abandon their lich/sister then whine or rage to the rest of the group to 'leave it' that pisses literally everyone off, because they're blocking everyone else's lich/sister from spawning.

If you're gonna be That Guy™ then do us all a favour and switch to solo please, since you're already playing with a solo attitude, only with murmur leeching on top.

Edited by Numerikuu
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I dont rush the fight i instead do this

I let the lich live cause he can spawn 10 thralls   i kill them then i fight the lich

When a sister spawn she spawns with a dog    she also spawns a dog every time she loses a health bar   so then  i try a requiem  and if i guess right  i wait for her dog to spawn and i kill it  then repeat  untill she is dead xd 

And this is the most efficient requiem murmur farm and people seems to not knowing it 

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1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

I'll make you a deal: I will stab my Lich at your command, if YOU stay in the squad until all four liches are dead.

Bonus Murmurs are exactly that: a bonus. Not a guarantee. I do not want my Lich to rank up to Rank 5 when I could keep it at a lower rank, because that wastes MY time. Rank 5 liches suck, and if you're just going to leave the squad before I have to fight them regardless of whether I obeyed your wishes then I'm not going to let them get to Rank 5

The ultimate culprit here is the game design, but until it gets fixed the least we could do is not attack each other over it

Because of selfish players like you other's nemesis spawns are blocking in the mission, you are not sharing kuva or credits or murmurs with your team and that means , you are stealing other's valueable time (you will understand that when you will be older cause obviously you are very young) and you just want to be carried by your team which is even worse. Whole purpose is the public play is contributing each other and mission and with no exucutions you are not doing both. So just close the public , make it solo or friends only and give community a peace

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6 minutes ago, Merrcenary said:

if you don't like that people don't give your free murmurs then it is your own problem

"free murmur"? like if it was actually hard to fill up all murmurs. 

The problem here it's not that i don't want you to play the way you want, the problem here it's that people that play like you do slow down incredibly the murmur farm. 

if you don't want to give "free murmur", again...this statement is laughable in my honest opinion, go farm murmur solo. 

Or are you trying to be the jailer of other people? "oh, it's my lich? good, now i'm in charge!" dude lol.

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3 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Your loss, was just hoping to save you a little time on the average case

You said that the "best case" is slightly better (with at least some chance of a single attempt clear.)  And that the other two cases are identical.  From my point of view, I'd rather take the slight chance on a single shot clear - the other two cases are apparently equal, and I ****ing HATE fighting higher level Liches.  From my point of view I lose nothing but the time spent doing a few extra solo missions and beating down a Lich that's as close to "easy" as they're ever going to get.  If I use your method, the chance of a single attempt clear is far lower, meaning I'm almost *always* going to be dealing with a level 2 or 3 Lich.  I don't enjoy fighting them, at all.  I just want the damn gun.  So the weaker they are, the easier it will be for me to beat my new weapon out of them.

It normally takes me about a week to clear a Lich, because I do not enjoy fighting jacked up enemies in this game.  (Level scaling on enemies sucks dead mole eyeballs.)  So I normally only attempt a couple of Requium missions a night, assuming I have time to play Warframe at all.  Having to solo a couple more missions doesn't change that variable by any amount I care about.  Or at least, not enough to outweigh the tiny chance of NOT having slog through up to half of the *next* planet just to piss them off enough to make them come fight me again.  I don't like fighting liches.  I don't like playing Requiem missions against jacked up enemies.  I don't actually enjoy *anything at all* about this system except for getting the weapon at the end.

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44 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

-snip-

But it's 20 whole SECONDS!  I can't wait that long!  *Disconnects out of spite, forces host migration, has to play through an entire new mission to get back to the same point.*

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Только что, (PSN)max141064 сказал:

The problem here it's not that i don't want you to play the way you want, the problem here it's that people that play like you do slow down incredibly the murmur farm. 

i can answer you in a symetric way: if you don't like slow murmur farming then you can stop playing in public games and make a squad for fast efficient murmur farming

Цитата

Or are you trying to be the jailer of other people? "oh, it's my lich? good, now i'm in charge!"

also "this statement is laughable in my honest opinion" (c)

 

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2 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Firstly, I said that players usually leave after two or three finished missions, NOT mid-mission. Though I haven't bothered testing if leaving mid-mission let's you keep murmurs either

As for your second question? Average lich level would be about the same as yours: rank 3. This is why I never believe people saying "Always Stab" is faster, because clearly it isn't. It's a trade-off like it always was, you refresh your mission selection at the expense of your Lich's rage resetting. As a result, it's not like you are constantly getting your lich in consecutive missions, so you aren't getting the Ten Bonus each and every mission

Really?  PUGs in your region actually stay for more than 1 game?  That must be a cultural difference, because everyone in my region basically leaves after every single game.  I will admit that if the norm in your region is to stay for 2 or 3 missions, then there will be more social pressure to always stab if everyone else is stabbing.  Mission failure due to glitches and host problems will not reward murmurs.  I can only assume quitting is the same.

Wait, so if your average lich level is the same as mine, doesn't that mean not-stabbing will not keep the lich level any lower?  Mathematically, "Everyone Always Stabbing" will absolutely maximize the murmur gain speed for everyone.  Remember that it is not Ten Bonus, but rather Forty Bonus per stab because you have 4 in a squad.  The only major exception is if anyone already has 3 words unveiled, as all murmur gain for them is wasted.  I will also concede the point that if you have an exceedingly shy lich who absolutely won't show up until the 4th or 5th mission, then it may be a good case for not stabbing.  But anecdotally, and I do not know if this is just RNG messing with me, I find that even my shy liches tend to show up more frequently once she becomes familiar with the pointy end of my parazon...

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Just now, EmberStar said:

You said that the "best case" is slightly better (with at least some chance of a single attempt clear.)  And that the other two cases are identical.  From my point of view, I'd rather take the slight chance on a single shot clear

OK to clarify: the average cases have the same statistics but your method is much slower. And it doesn't really help this:

1 minute ago, EmberStar said:

From my point of view, I'd rather take the slight chance on a single shot clear - the other two cases are apparently equal, and I ****ing HATE fighting higher level Liches.  From my point of view I lose nothing but the time spent doing a few extra solo missions and beating down a Lich that's as close to "easy" as they're ever going to get.  If I use your method, the chance of a single attempt clear is far lower, meaning I'm almost *always* going to be dealing with a level 2 or 3 Lich.  I don't enjoy fighting them, at all.  I just want the damn gun.  So the weaker they are, the easier it will be for me to beat my new weapon out of them.

It normally takes me about a week to clear a Lich, because I do not enjoy fighting jacked up enemies in this game.  (Level scaling on enemies sucks dead mole eyeballs.)  So I normally only attempt a couple of Requium missions a night, assuming I have time to play Warframe at all.  Having to solo a couple more missions doesn't change that variable by any amount I care about.  Or at least, not enough to outweigh the tiny chance of NOT having slog through up to half of the *next* planet just to piss them off enough to make them come fight me again.  I don't like fighting liches.  I don't like playing Requiem missions against jacked up enemies.  I don't actually enjoy *anything at all* about this system except for getting the weapon at the end.

Statistically, you still have to fight a Rank 3 Lich. You spend all this extra time on Earth, only for a 5 in 6 chance to still fight them at Rank 2 and a 1 in 2 chance to fight them at Rank 3.

The ultimate kicker is that Liches don't gain any stat boosts until Rank 3. And the normal enemies don't gain any stat boosts until Rank 4. I know what you're getting at, I hate Rank 5 liches too, but your method is just a lot of time running around for extremely tiny payoff that statistically doesn't matter

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