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What do you guys think of those who try not to execute Liches or Sisters?


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8 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

This kind of useless drama form other players is why I pay Solo.

For what it's worth  no one has ever complained about int chat in my 40+ sister runs. Not that it happens often anw.

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2 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said:

For what it's worth  no one has ever complained about int chat in my 40+ sister runs. Not that it happens often anw.

That's great.

I am really glad the system works for you and that you can do what you like.

I can say the same, simply because I am the only one in the chat. 🤣

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2 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

However the reality is: there is a 1 in 3 chance that the correct mod we picked is in the wrong slot.

And how is your reality related to a real life? I mean we discussing blind guess vs what? Versus the wolrd there we can't collect murmur at all? I mean full first circle. So 12.5% vs 33%. We calculating "chances this exactly mod is in the current position". And now, then i see the contradiction, i can understood the way you thinking maybe. Still, this is totally different procents. You shouldn't multiply em. If you have 100 mods it doent affect the one you already know, it will be affected only by numbers of positions (3 currently). And if you have 8 mods, it doesnt affected by number of possitions. Like if you have 1000000 slots, you still need only 8 attempts to guess first one.

Your 2(!) in 3 chance is not related to anything. I mean if i'm wrong, describe what it will mean to you.

9 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

When you equip three random mods, you have 3 out of 8 chances of picking the correct mods.

And this too doesnt mean anything.

10 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

The position of the mods is the next factor, maybe you picked all the correct requiem mods but you have 1 out of 3 chances to correctly position them.

In "reality" if you pick correct mod it doesnt mean anything by itself. It can be in second or third position. And you will need to multiplicate chances of guessing it by first position.

Like 1/8*1/8=1/64 to guess mod in second position.

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Before Sisters update when murmur progress was much slower I thought nothing of it. I am and always have been Always Stabber mostly because I turn my brain off during murmur farms. But I was usually on the non-stabby side of the argument because the risk and delay was too great for that 1 individual while other 3 players would argue what boiled down to "how DARE you inconvenience ME in a pub squad, a place we all know everyone comes with a known and common goal in mind?????" 

Now that the whole thing is much faster and easier, I still don't say anything but I do think non-stabbers are often an annoyance. But downing the Lichs 3 times to shoo them away has always been a non-issue so in the end, it's just that: a mild annoyance I'll forget about by the time I extract. 

Edited by traybong111
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19 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said:

You didnt mention it at all. You're comparing making a meaningful guess next mission vs next three missions. You're asking me to set me back a lot just for some murmur. 

That's the only reason i have to write about it, you know. And sure, if you are talking only about your lich its "alot vs a little". But what if everyone act same way? Don't you think your gaining of murmur is faster than rage lvl only because of stabbing?

21 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said:

By the time I make my second guess ill have two known ones too, no one doesnt stab from Phobos onwards. No one has a reason to at least.

It's imposisible to "not have reasons". To change disposition you need to have 2 full circles. And you will not. You keep rage lvl high, exactly to stab lich right after filling first circle, didn't you?

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6 hours ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

You don't reward people if they don't do their job. 

you reward them if they go out of their way to actually do it. 

This isn't a job, it's a free to play game that needs to retain players not push them away. Bad comparison. 

 

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21 minutes ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

But what if everyone act same way? Don't you think your gaining of murmur is faster than rage lvl only because of stabbing?

A lot of people do. The thing about the grind is that not everyone in pub is at the same progressions as you. So you're never gonna end up with everyone not stabbing outside of rare cases. 

 

24 minutes ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

It's imposisible to "not have reasons".

Once you have one you can keep guessing at the pace the grind goes. Because of Oull.
 

25 minutes ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

To change position(?) you need to have 2 full circles.

Oull. Swap it out with discovered mod if not right position.

25 minutes ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

You keep rage lvl high, exactly to stab lich right after filling first circle, didn't you?

Yeah and the circles are not capped during this time. Progress keeps being made. If you guess the second one and the second circle is not filled then you stab anw for the third because by the time you fill the second circle your sister will spawn again. Nothing to lose there.  Not stabbing before the first mod is relevant only on the first planet.

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It's annoying when they don't  cause you play public to get to bonus murmurs from other peoples lich attempts. I understand not stabbing for 2 reasons. 1 you have your final murmur unlocked in the mission and they spawn and you don't want reset the anger level 2. It's a sister on venus cause they really like to spawn before you even get the first one unlocked

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1 minute ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

It's annoying when they don't  cause you play public to get to bonus murmurs from other peoples lich attempts. I understand not stabbing for 2 reasons. 1 you have your final murmur unlocked in the mission and they spawn and you don't want reset the anger level 2. It's a sister on venus cause they really like to spawn before you even get the first one unlocked

But Oull exists and you cant use them faster than you get them.

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3 minutes ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

1 you have your final murmur unlocked in the mission and they spawn and you don't want reset the anger level 2. It's a sister on venus cause they really like to spawn before you even get the first one unlocked

what she said yes GIF by TipsyElves.comThis. Thank you.

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Oh no, this player inconvenienced me for 30 seconds by playing the game the way they wanted! In a public session no less! This offense will not stand! I will make my feelings loudly known on public forums and they will be most unhappy!

It's a public session, nobody made you Czar of Warframe. Get over it or play solo. Stop acting like a goon.

Full disclosure: I used to spam stab to get to level 5 faster so I could get stabs faster, now I plan my stabs more carefully just to avoid Kuva Fortress. I hate that place.

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13 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said:

A lot of people do. The thing about the grind is that not everyone in pub is at the same progressions as you. So you're never gonna end up with everyone not stabbing outside of rare cases. 

Yeah) You just got lucky every time. Just calculate how many missions you need to first circle, divide 1 by this number. This is your chance to meet someone stabbing Sister instead of ignoring. A bit better, cause they have same chance before and need less missions total. Am i wrong, or in reality it's much better?

And can you please wrote about Oull few more times? But yeah, I was overly categorical, my bad.

You have 12.5% to make blind guess. You have 33% to not be able to use Oull if you guess right on Venus. And If your Lich doesnt show up again it's mean rage meter is not high anyway, so you have not so much to lose.

I'm not saying you are totally wrong. But the point of consistant profit is not focused to the simple NEVER.

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5 hours ago, MqToasty said:

The more I read about your experience, the more I'm starting to think this is a server culture thing.  Unless incredibly unlucky with lich spawns, I tend to get the first word by the end of the 2nd mission (~3 or 4 liches) because almost everyone else is always stabbing.

Yeah, definitely a luck thing between us. Because how are you getting not one, but THREE Lich spawns in the second mission? Your Liches will have like 5% rage at that point

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6 hours ago, NecroPed said:

I think it's exploitative because liches and sisters are supposed to get stronger as you go and you're actively avoiding the thing that can do that for an easier reward. I'm doubtful it was DE's intention for people to intentionally avoid stabbing it either which would come into play as to whether or not it is an exploit.

IF DE did not want people to be able to avoid stabbing, they wouldn't have ADDED the mechanic.  It didn't originally exist, it's something they deliberately chose to add retroactively once the Lich system was in-game.

IE, if they didn't want people to do it, they wouldn't have written to code to make it possible.  This isn't some accidental discovery of some game mechanic interaction that isn't necessarily obvious (such as Larva being *really* good on Protea, because she can zoop enemies into a ball and her turrets will fire into that hitting multiple targets and scaling to crazy amounts of damage.)

*Edit*  And again, there's an inherent trade-off.  Which is what I was discussing with TarnUnit above - according to them, I'm spending far LONGER than necessary gathering murmers in exchange for (on average) still probably fighting a level 3 Lich to beat the weapon out of them at the end.

Edited by EmberStar
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Not stabbing her is a selfish, asshat move. You're deprieving other players of a decent amount of murmurs , some free kuva for liches and you're making it harder for their own lich to spawn. You're basically leeching on the other player's lich stabbing murmurs without contributing yourself. You're basically a parasite wasting everyone's time and hogging a slot that could be used by a proper lich-stabbing teammate that contributes to the effort.

And for what, because you're scared of your lich being slightly stronger ? Or because you don't want to "waste a stab"... Well guess what, a stab is a stab, and you will still learn more from a couple blank stabs than just avoiding the lich, It's not like not stabbing her will guarantee she will spawn the next mission or anything either, sure there's an anger meter, but it's not as simple as that.

So yeah , if you're too chicken to fight your lich or want not to stab her , just play solo or find a dedicated no stabbing group... But hey you won't do that because it's better to leech on other player's stabbing murmur progression, right !

Edited by (PSN)Stealth_Cobra
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16 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

IF DE did not want people to be able to avoid stabbing, they wouldn't have ADDED the mechanic.  It didn't originally exist, it's something they deliberately chose to add retroactively once the Lich system was in-game.

IE, if they didn't want people to do it, they wouldn't have written to code to make it possible.  This isn't some accidental discovery of some game mechanic interaction that isn't necessarily obvious (such as Larva being *really* good on Protea, because she can zoop enemies into a ball and her turrets will fire into that hitting multiple targets and scaling to crazy amounts of damage.)

*Edit*  And again, there's an inherent trade-off.  Which is what I was discussing with TarnUnit above - according to them, I'm spending far LONGER than necessary gathering murmers in exchange for (on average) still probably fighting a level 3 Lich to beat the weapon out of them at the end.

It's not exactly what happened though. When the released liches at first they didn't even consider the fact players would not stab their liches... Which caused problems because there was often an asshat that would not stab theirs , which would lead to players fighting the same lich over and over with no stabbing ever occuring , and would block the spawning of other player's liches.

As a solution, they implemented a way for other players to down another player's lich a couple of times , leading him to vanish, allowing at least to stop the annoying lich from blocking the spawn from other players. At the end of the day it's a band-aid solution just because they can't force a player to stab their lich, but they have to find a way not to screw other players.

Personally I would love it if other players would at least get the murmurs when stabbing another player's lich, but then again that would probably cause people to kill other player's liches before the lich's host even has time to get there, so there's no perfect solution here. I guess giving maybe half the murmurs for a kill versus a stab , but only for the player's that are not the lich's progenitor would be a good compromise.

Edited by (PSN)Stealth_Cobra
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7 minutes ago, (PSN)Stealth_Cobra said:

Not stabbing her is a selfish, asshat move. You're deprieving other players of a decent amount of murmurs , some free kuva for liches and you're making it harder for their own lich to spawn. You're basically leeching on the other player's lich stabbing murmurs without contributing yourself. You're basically a parasite wasting everyone's time and hogging a slot that could be used by a proper lich-stabbing teammate that contributes to the effort.

And for what, because you're scared of your lich being slightly stronger ? Or because you don't want to "waste a stab"... Well guess what, a stab is a stab, and you will still learn more from a couple blank stabs than just avoiding the lich, It's not like not stabbing her will guarantee she will spawn the next mission or anything either, sure there's an anger meter, but it's not as simple as that.

So yeah , if you're too chicken to fight your lich or want not to stab her , just play solo or find a dedicated no stabbing group... But hey you won't do that because it's better to leach on other player's stabbing murmur progression, right !

If you're so entitled that you think PUG are there to serve your needs, just use Recruit Chat and form an Always Stab team.  Otherwise, you get what you get in a PUG.

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3 minutes ago, (PSN)Stealth_Cobra said:

It's not exactly what happened though. When the released liches at first they didn't even consider the fact players would not stab their liches... Which caused problems because there was often an asshat that would not stab theirs , which would lead to players fighting the same lich over and over with no stabbing ever occuring , and would block the spawning of other player's liches.

As a solution, they implemented a way for other players to down another player's lich a couple of times , leading him to vanish, allowing at least to stop the annoying lich from blocking the spawn from other players. At the end of the day it's just because they can't force a player to stab their lich, but they have to find a way not to screw other players.

Personally I would love it if other players would at least get the murmurs when stabbing another player's lich, but then again that would probably cause people to kill other player's liches before the lich's host even has time to get there, so there's no perfect solution here.

I'm not going to attempt to guess WHY they added it.  But they DID add the mechanic.  They could just as easily have coded it sot that a mission can't finish AT ALL if a Lich is still alive.  IE, they could have made it so that if a Lich spawns it becomes a non-optional mission objective to kill them.  Instead, they made deliberately made it optional.  In my opinion, their mistake was putting any reward for other players on stabbing a lich - your reward for fighting them in a team should be the additional help in beating them down, with NO payout to other players if you stab or not.  An acceptable alternative would be if OTHER players still got the bonus murmers when a Lich leaves *regardless* of if they are stabbed or slapped down three times.

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8 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

If you're so entitled that you think PUG are there to serve your needs, just use Recruit Chat and form an Always Stab team.  Otherwise, you get what you get in a PUG.

That's kind of a nonsensical argument.  It's like saying it's ok to AFK leech farm XP in places like Hydron and that people should not complain about it and make "No leeching" groups in Recruit Chat...

People are angry about lich afkers because they are being selfish and bad sports, and this is exactly the topic to vent about this !

Edited by (PSN)Stealth_Cobra
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Just now, (PSN)Stealth_Cobra said:

That's kind of a stupid argument.  It's like saying it's ok to AFK leech farm XP in places like Hydron and that people should not complain about it and make "No leeching" groups in Recruit Chat...

People are angry about lich afkers because they are being selfish and bad sports, and this is exactly the topic to vent about this !

You do you.  The fact that you are so selfish and entitled that you think you have the right to dictate how *I* act in a PUG team actually makes it slightly MORE likely that I'll do so - just because I know it will piss you off.  So go ahead, keep calling people names, I'm SURE that's going to get them on your side.

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TBH probably just need to remove the lowering of the anger bar when you stab your lich. Feel like the main reason why one would avoid to stab their lich is because of this, and it doesn't even really make any sense anyway (why does stabbing someone make them less angry at you) ?

If that case, the only reason people would have not to stab their lich would be to avoid it getting stronger, which would be fine as an option for lower lvl players, especially if the other players were to get half the murmurs for downing it with the host's help.

Edited by (PSN)Stealth_Cobra
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7 hours ago, NecroPed said:

I think it's exploitative because liches and sisters are supposed to get stronger as you go and you're actively avoiding the thing that can do that for an easier reward. I'm doubtful it was DE's intention for people to intentionally avoid stabbing it either which would come into play as to whether or not it is an exploit.

They wouldnt have added the stab avoidance option in such a case, they also wouldnt have reworked the system to promote avoiding stabs even more by auto-clearing all remaining planet nodes if a stab fails and the lich moves on. 

Prior to the sisters update you stabbed because you might aswell do it. You could always clear the good nodes afterwards. Now you cannot do that, so instead you avoid stabbing the lich till the good nodes are cleared.

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I honestly don't see a problem with not stabbing. I stab and don't stab. All I do is ask the people in the squad if they're going to stab or not. If not then you just down the lich/sister 3 times and they disappear. Easy as that. What's to argue?

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4 hours ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

cause you play public to get to bonus murmurs from other peoples lich attempts.

Correction: You play public for that reason. I do it for my own, different reason (that being to clear nodes that I don't enjoy playing and maximise my hound/thrall stab opportunities for each planet).

Don't assume that everyone else is playing the exact same way as you.

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