What is your most used Helminth ability, on what frame, and why?

[ReddyDisco]

My most abused would be breach surge on ember, mag for dps increase and cc

Gloom on garuda, because its busted on her, Gloom Nekros

Eclipse wisp for when you need overkill damage for no reason whatsoever

[TaricTheAncient]

Eclipse on Excalibur replacing dash cause more damage numbers.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

** change thread title to:

"What helminth ability should DE nerf?"

 

 

[SneakyErvin]

Roar and Gloom are probably my most used, then there are a few heavily used ones on specific frames.

Roar for Rev, Lavos, Frost and anyone else with respectable strength.

Gloom for Protea, Octavia, Saryn, Enox and a few others with good ranged killing power so things dont crawl to a halt.

Fire Walker for Gauss instead of Mach Rush.

Breach Surge for Xaku instead of Whisper

Thermal Sunder for Vauban instead of Tesla

Going to try Breach Surge on Vauban aswell, may have interesting interaction with his flechette orb and his photon strike.

[TaricTheAncient]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Roar and Gloom are probably my most used, then there are a few heavily used ones on specific frames.

Roar for Rev, Lavos, Frost and anyone else with respectable strength.

Gloom for Protea, Octavia, Saryn, Enox and a few others with good ranged killing power so things dont crawl to a halt.

Fire Walker for Gauss instead of Mach Rush.

Breach Surge for Xaku instead of Whisper

Thermal Sunder for Vauban instead of Tesla

Going to try Breach Surge on Vauban aswell, may have interesting interaction with his flechette orb and his photon strike.

Why do you think Roar is better then Eclipse?

This is a actual question not elitist sarcasm I am curious if i should swap to roar on my Excalibur.

[(XBOX)Obi Wan Dandobi]

I did run savage silence ash for a long time but recently changed it to radial blind. The duration of being open to finishers is bit longer and I've increased his range a bit for it. I replaced his teleport. So now pressing 3 then 4 wipes out an area pretty quickly. 

My most used is probably gloom garuda. Replaced her 2. So now gloom keeps her health topped up and when I start running out of energy just press 3 and we're off again!

[Thorham]

Empower with Excalibur Umbra. Combines well with Growing Power for a nice, very easy to use Exalted Blade buff that only needs recasting when Exalted Blade goes down (which doesn't happen often because my build's efficiency is capped).

[Hypernaut1]

My favorite subsume is energized munitions on Mesa replacing her 1. It just makes sense on her and should've been her native ability. She a frame that materializes ammo out of her finger tips. Of course she should be able to do it for any weapon. 

Out all the abilities in this game, I think ballistic battery is the one I've used the least. Energized munitions feels like she has 4 abilities again. 

[TaricTheAncient]

9 minutes ago, Thorham said:

Empower with Excalibur Umbra. Combines well with Growing Power for a nice, very easy to use Exalted Blade buff that only needs recasting when Exalted Blade goes down (which doesn't happen often because my build's efficiency is capped).

Can you stack those two with Energy Conversion as well?

[SneakyErvin]

11 minutes ago, TaricTheHealer said:

Why do you think Roar is better then Eclipse?

This is a actual question not elitist sarcasm I am curious if i should swap to roar on my Excalibur.

Roar = Buffs Everything

Eclipse = Buffs Weapons, and you need to rely on a variable light source.

[TaricTheAncient]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

Roar = Buffs Everything

Eclipse = Buffs Weapons, and you need to rely on a variable light source.

Ah right forgot about that 

thanks for reminding me.

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, TaricTheHealer said:

Ah right forgot about that 

thanks for reminding me.

NP.

p.s that lady is scary but fair!

[ShogunGunshow]

Even with that, I still usually find Eclipse to be better. In my experience, there's a lot more light on tiles than there is shadow, and all but the dimmest light is better than Roar. The only time I go for Roar over Eclipse is when I specifically want to buff the damage of a Warframe ability. And even then, a lot of Warframe abilities that you'd care about buffing the damage to - like Gara's Shattered Lash - count as weapons and Eclipse does a better job of buffing them, as well.

[Thorham]

35 minutes ago, TaricTheHealer said:

Can you stack those two with Energy Conversion as well?

I don't see why not, but it might be annoying to use.

[T-Shark69]

My most infused ability is hands down Gloom. Works well on a lot of frames and with Panzer + Equilibrium can be dealt with easily energy wise. Find it especially good on Banshe, Equinox and Hildryn.

My most infused frames are Rhino and Hildryn. Rhino cuz its my main and i have like 7 different build slots for different situations. Nourish for Roar build, Smite for Eidolons, Perspicacity for Spy, Cold Ward for Index etc. Hildryn because her shield shenanigans are cool. Electric Ward for more shields plus electric procs for Status Overload builds, Gloom because it's easier to mantain than any other frame and makes Disruption a cake walk, and now Voracious Metastasis for teamwide 100+ energy/s.

5 hours ago, ShogunGunshow said:

like Gara's Shattered Lash - count as weapons and Eclipse does a better job of buffing them, as well.

Roar should still be better on the long run since Eclipse is always gonna give you a set extra damage per cast while Roar gives a bigger boost to her 2 the bigger damage it does.  Nope , doesn't double dip.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

9 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said:

Roar should still be better on the long run since Eclipse is always gonna give you a set extra damage per cast while Roar gives a bigger boost to her 2 the bigger damage it does.

Both are the same in the end for Shattered Lash feeding damage into Splinter Storm, with only the buff % determining the winner.

Example: You have infused Eclipse and 100% strength (neutral).

You cast the Shattered Lash + Mass Vitrify combo 3 times. On the first you get 800 x (1 + 1.5) x 0.5 = 1000 damage stored.
On the second cast you get the same amount again, so 800 x (1 + 1.5) x 0.5 = 1000 damage stored.
Ditto for the third, so 800 x (1 +1.5) x 0.5 = 1000 damage stored. So you now have 3000 damage stored.

That's simply expressed by 800 x (1 + 1.5) x 0.5 x number of casts. So in the general form, it's 800 x (1 + Eclipse %) x 0.5 x (number of casts)

For Roar, it's going to be (total damage stored) x (1 + Roar). Damage stored is just 800 x 0.5 x (number of casts). So it's just 800 x (1 + Roar %) x 0.5 x (number of casts)

[800 x (1 + Eclipse %) x 0.5 x (number of casts)]/[800 x (1 + Roar %) x 0.5 x (number of casts)]
simplifies to
(1 + Eclipse %)/(1 + Roar %).

Eclipse wins at all strength when at full power. It will continue to win so long as it is operating at ~21% of its maximum buff.

It's slightly more nuanced given that the stored damage from Mass Vitrify has a component not affected by Shattered Lash (and consequently not affected by Eclipse), but that's just 800 damage, and is inconsequential as its value is so now compared to Shattered Lash's contribution (For reference, an ideally (at least 1 version of it's ideal statstick anyway) statsticked Shattered Lash is doing 23,907 damage at neutral strength, so that 800 damage is only 3.24% of the total damage going into Splinter Storm).

So TL;DR Eclipse and Roar are effectively both multiplicative to the total damage of Splinter Storm, so the higher buff wins.

[Kaggelos]

For me it's Pull. Cheapest CC with great range.

Then Its Fireblast, good CC, armor strip, the works.

I steer clear of Dispensary, Roar, and other "meta" abilities cause I just dontfind them that fun. If efficiency overrides fun, then I say no ^^

[T-Shark69]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

So it's just 800 x (1 + Roar %) x 0.5 x (number of casts)

Total damage dealt by her 2 is amplified by Roar too so should multiply this formula by (1 + Roar%). You seem to take into acoC*** only stored damage.

When you have 1M damage stored and a 250% Eclipse adds like 52K damage while 50% roar like 38K., splinter storm will deal 1.052M damage with Eclipse while it'll deal 1.038 * 1.5 = 1,557M damage with Roar. The only thing to calculate is how fast youd get to higher total damage with Eclipse compared to Roar. Which Roar for me would win for the sole fact it's constant in terms of buff%.  Wrong. Doesnt double dip.

[nslay]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Roar for Rev,

But why? I know very well that his 4 is bad, but it's still useful for emergency nuking in interception and defense-like missions.

And then you have Thrall Pact which is like Roar for primaries... I don't see the benefit of roar on Revenant.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

2 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said:

Total damage dealt by her 2 is amplified by Roar too so should multiply this formula by (1 + Roar%). You seem to take into acoC*** only stored damage.

Roar doesn't apply twice. It only applies when damaging an enemy. So it doesn't actually add any damage going in from Mass Vitrify shattering, it only increases Splinter Storm's damage when hitting an enemy.
Even if Roar did double dip, Eclipse would still beat it while operating at 55% of its maximum value at "reasonable" (250% and below) strength.

[(PSN)deathwolfclaw666]

Empower on Banshee, Mag, Oberon, Volt, Limbo and Harrow. Makes for stronger AoE abilities and in Harrows case 90 more max energy conversion.

[T-Shark69]

12 minutes ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

it only increases Splinter Storm's damage when hitting an enemy.

Yeah that's what I'm saying. Total damage dealt to enemy is affected by Roar alongside the shatter, while Eclipse only affects damage stored in Splinter Storm via shattering.  Comparison for total damage dealt to enemy should be   (1 + 1.5x)/(1 + 0.3x)^2  - 1  in the end if I'm not mistaken.

Wait now I'm reading it better. Damage added to 2 via 1+4 combo is the same as with and without Roar?

[T-Shark69]

24 minutes ago, nslay said:

But why? I know very well that his 4 is bad, but it's still useful for emergency nuking in interception and defense-like missions.

And then you have Thrall Pact which is like Roar for primaries... I don't see the benefit of roar on Revenant.

Thrall pact is additive with Serration while Roar is multiplicative. Diminishing returns with Galvanized Status and Arcanes compared to Roar and is only limited to Primaries.
Putting Roar on Rev and priming with Viral means you can one shot any enemy, thralled or not with like 250%+ str. Also you could stack Thrall Pact and Roar for that matter.

[syl42]

Gloom on Protea, Hildryn, Wisp and Chroma.

Energized Munitions on Gauss and Mirage.

Pillage on Volt, Frost, Limbo.

Eclipse on  Loki and Wisp for Exodia Contagion build.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Haven't really used an ability beyond one frame but in terms of actually using one alot it be golden instinct since it helps speed up syndicate medallion hunting and we got one month till nidus prime roughly so I'm stocking up