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Daily Standing needs a change to help the new players.


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A year ago I would have called this unneeded. This opinion of mine however has shifted to the opposition. The daily standing cap used to keep people from grinding out max rank in a faction too quickly, It may still serve such a purpose but that is not the point. The open worlds of Fortuna and PoE are only hindered by this now for new players wanting to grind and get a frame like Revanent or Garuda or Gauss or any frame that requires planetside mats to be built. a new player of MR 1-5 is going to see this and leave to do their main quest stuff and grind other things until they can easily gain their daily cap. an MR 6-10 may see this and have some issues with it. They have hit the mid point and now they want to farm out their planets and are stopped cold rather quickly. People have done the math to calculate standing gain and an hour of fishing alone give us more standing than even an MR 30 can collect. So tell me why the Devs have to rely on this now when so many people are still MR 1-9 and they have to deal with this daily cap? I think instead we should add ways to still earn while capped like sigils or increase the cap and add some more ranks with more items to get. bounties alone give fairly low standing and it's what most people run so I can see the argument there. But for players that are maxed for that day they should still be able to collect standing. I also think we should seperate standing from spending as well or at the very least make the BPs non-ranked required.

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-In addition to giving more room for Tenno to get to that final rank with their Syndicates, this will ultimately help reduce the time new players spend ranking up with their chosen Syndicates. Previously, if you were Mastery Rank 10, you would have a daily Standing cap of 16,000. Now, with the changes we’ve made, your daily Standing cap for MR 10 is 21,000.

This is recent

A Mr 10 should have enough to do while waiting for the cap to reset, the most that they could do is change fortuna and Cetus to tokens like Deimos

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The standing cap was already eased up for lower MRs twice now. And it doesn't matter what point players are at the cap is still there to stop them from rushing it plus even those in the low-mid/mid range of MR still have a lot of things to do outside of standing grinds.

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4 minutes ago, trst said:

The standing cap was already eased up for lower MRs twice now. And it doesn't matter what point players are at the cap is still there to stop them from rushing it plus even those in the low-mid/mid range of MR still have a lot of things to do outside of standing grinds.

Yup!  And for everything else, there's ~Platinum~.   I know people don't like the idea of pushing sales in a game, but like.... it's free, otherwise, and if it helps drive sales, it helps keep DE employees...employed.  :/ 

New Players don't have to "catch up" to us right away.  I know we're all excited to get our friends into the game and then rush them into RJ, Profit-Taker/Eidolons, etc.  "Endgame" ... but that's not healthy for that player.  It shoves WAY too much in their way TOO FAST, and they hardly have time to digest before getting overwhelmed and quitting.  

Experiencing Warframe in piecemeal is not only healthy for sales, but also for the New Player Experience, tbh.

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OP is making it sound like after mastery 5 you have nothing to do but grind open worlds, when really there's s till a truckload of frames, weapons and companions you'd still need to level at that point, as well as maybe starting on some of the easier side mode attractions like Sanctuary Onslaught and lower-tier Granum Void or Index. there's plenty for someone in those ranks to do while waiting for the standing cap.

people need to accept the caps are a necessary evil, there for a good reason: no matter what rank you are, you're obviously gonna grind as much as you can, but if you do everything in the first day then there's nothing left and you're gonna be bored. people are no good at taking breaks from grinds so DE has to force it onto you. 

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4 minutes ago, (PSN)Pragmatic_2015 said:

Yeah, but affinity isn't standing

Standing is gained as a portion of Affinity when wearing sigils.  It can also be gained through medallions, or in the case of Open World factions, through trades and bounties.

But in the case of Syndicates, yeah,.... Affinity Boosts apply.

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12 minutes ago, Merrcenary said:

everytime i see topics like this i ask myself how i was able to get through all of this without all these "new player experience", "daily standing cap increase" etc.

It's because you liked the game and probably had prior knowledge of how bad some other games actually are. 

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1 hour ago, (PSN)Pragmatic_2015 said:

Yeah, but affinity isn't standing

Actually affinity is standing.

The amount of affinity you get directly correlates to the amount of standing you gain from killing enemies while wearing a sigil or scanning targets.  Someone who is earning twice as much affinity as you is earning nearly twice as much standing as you.

Sure it doesn't affect medallions, trading, or bounty rewards, but it does definitely increase overall standing gains.

9 hours ago, mixmonster1112 said:

The open worlds of Fortuna and PoE are only hindered by this now for new players wanting to grind and get a frame like Revanent or Garuda or Gauss or any frame that requires planetside mats to be built. a new player of MR 1-5 is going to see this and leave to do their main quest stuff and grind other things until they can easily gain their daily cap. an MR 6-10 may see this and have some issues with it. They have hit the mid point and now they want to farm out their planets and are stopped cold rather quickly.

Except here's the thing:
They have a ton more things to do then just grind the open worlds.
They have other syndicates to grind, they have other planets to finish, they have weapons to collect and build, they have clan research to start going after, they have quests that they need to go through.

It's not like the game comes to a dead stop at MR5 where the only thing left is open worlds.  There is plenty left for players to do and spend their time on rather than just sitting on the plains or in the vallis.

DE has raised the cap for lower MRs a few times and its in a fairly good spot right now.  Plus there really is no need to just blow through and get to max standing in one day.  It won't achieve anything aside from complete burnout.

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If you want more Standing, there's tons of ways to bank it for later.

  • Relay Syndicates have these little totems called "Medallions" that look like their base faction sigil but in 3D. They're found scattered throughout most Syndicate Missions, and there are 8 in total per mission that has them (normally, arena missions like Defense and Interception won't have them). You have three different tiers of these, and each tier gives set amounts of Standing. And you don't have to turn them all in at once. You can go a week or a month without turning them in, then spam them out as you go shopping. Unfortunately, not everyone is willing to go on a scavenger hunt with Randoms. So you'll have to either go solo or put together a group with that goal in mind.
  • Cetus and Fortuna have multiple vendors that can give you Standing for resources. Hai-luk and Biz will accept live fish, Suumbaat and Smokefinger will accept raw gemstones, Hok will take fully ranked Zaws, Ruud Zuud will take fully ranked Kitguns, and Legs will take fully ranked MOA companions.
  • Additionally, Fortuna and Necralisk will give you tokens you can save up.
    Eudico's SU Bounties will sometimes award Debt Bonds, which you can also buy from Ticker for Vallis resources. Ticker will then exchange those Debt Bonds for Standing.
    At Necralisk, Daughter, Grandmother, and Otak will give you tokens for resources, Son will give tokens for fully ranked Infested Companions, Father will give Tokens for fully ranked Kitguns, and Mother gives you tokens instead of Standing as you complete her Bounties. All of these can be traded to Grandmother for Standing.
  • Similarly to Hok, Zuud, Legs, Father, and Son, the Ventkids will accept fully ranked K-Drives for Standing. And just the process of ranking a K-Drive by doing things like performing tricks and running races will get you tons of Ventkid Standing anyway.
  • Simaris Standing is gained literally every time you scan something, so having Helios and a fully kitted Synthesis Scanner is a must. And you get more Standing for scanning Daily and Personal Targets.
  • Conclave...well, Conclave is Conclave. And you really need to do some launch window trickery to get to a healthy Conclave server.
  • There's an item called a Universal Medallion that you can get from high level content such as Sorties and Arbitrations, and every Syndicate will accept them and give 1,000 Standing in return.
    Spoiler
    • Once you unlock them, The Quills will accept fully ranked Amps and Sentient Cores from felled Sentient enemies, but the big money makers are the Eidolon hunts. These drop Cores that give higher amounts of Standing, and they can be saved for later usage.
    • Similarly to The Quills, Little Duck will accept fully ranked Amps and Toroids for Standing with Vox Solaris. You get these by either grinding enemies in a certain location (annoying), or by killing the Orb Mothers. Like Sentient Cores, these can be banked.

     

It's really not that hard to save Standing for later. It just takes a little patience, like everything else in this game. I recommend listening to some music while you grind; assuming you're not voice-chatting with a team.

Edited by Gamer_Auto
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On 2021-08-03 at 9:54 PM, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

-In addition to giving more room for Tenno to get to that final rank with their Syndicates, this will ultimately help reduce the time new players spend ranking up with their chosen Syndicates. Previously, if you were Mastery Rank 10, you would have a daily Standing cap of 16,000. Now, with the changes we’ve made, your daily Standing cap for MR 10 is 21,000.

This is recent

A Mr 10 should have enough to do while waiting for the cap to reset, the most that they could do is change fortuna and Cetus to tokens like Deimos

This is how I view single digit MR players farming Kuva and Tenet weapons.  There’s so much more to do than leech off others by trying to get endgame weapons.

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I think the key here is to run Standing based on engagement with the systems, rather than on a Cap.

Why? Because what you can do with the cap, and the ways that you can 'bank' standing in advance, is just completely dis-associate with the game once you bank the required things.

You can reach your cap, go over it with some of the 'boost' items that don't count towards your cap, but that's pretty much it.

So I suggest something that can be done in a similar, but not direct match to, Nightwave.

See, with Nightwave the progress is still capped, but it's goal based, where you have to complete certain goals, some easy, some hard, some short and some taking time across a whole week.

Importantly it's not linked to Affinity Gain, meaning that there's no real boosters for progress, other than the actual Credit rewards you pick up for the first 30 ranks.

If you miss some of the tasks, you get them back by engaging with the system again, meaning there's no 'daily' there's not even really a 'weekly', you have the entire 'season' which is months long, in order to keep doing the tasks that get you the 'Standing' or 'Currency' to pick up the rewards.

All DE needs to do with the current Standing systems is switch from hard-capped progress each day, to progress that can be caught up on if you can only play four or five days a week, or if you miss a day, maybe even if you miss a week. Maybe do this on a month's rotation, for example, so it doesn't need downtime like actual Nightwave does (due to the different shops and 'credits' you use each time). 

The main 6 Syndicates, for example, would then have 'alerts' that grant the relative amount of 'standing' that you can use or spend based on having completed them, maybe with the higher ones requiring you to wear the right Sigil (instead of being able to take an opposing faction's sigil and earn Standing for them at the same time). You would be able to complete all of the 'tasks' in a day's allowance, make some progress, and if you missed any in the week, then catching up at the weekend is completely viable.

And in missions? Medallions. You can turn in Medallions for standing, but because the Alerts grant more standing for completing their goals, this can be reduced to balance the progression out.

This way you still cap the rate at which players can gain Standing, but you remove that time-crucial barrier of a daily cap. There is no FOMO for not playing every day, you are not losing progress for not playing every day, because you can make it up with a longer play session later.

What this creates for Warframe (as a business) is more positive engagement in their systems. Instead of players literally missing progression through the week if they don't play, they can plan their time in game to work on their Syndicate or their Nightwave or even Simaris.

It makes it fair. For players that can play every day of the week, and players that can't. Progression in the game is the same, just 'piecemeal vs burst' engagement.

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In my opinion, it wouldn't be a bad idea to literally half the grind up to and including fortuna.  And I'm speaking as someone who ground out everything the hard way on release.

Why?  The game is honestly huge.  Its daunting for any new player coming into the game now.   They see the cool stuff, the new game modes, the awesome weapons etc but then, when its explained what they need to do to get to that point, its just crushing.   I see it all the time in my clan and alliance.  New players literally lost, hamstrung by standing caps and time gates.  The thought of putting maybe 1k hours in just to catch up to where the game is at now, only to by the time you've got there find your still miles off the newest content cos the game keeps progressing and adding new stuff which you've now also got to catch up with.  

Players leave the game in droves before they even reach mr12.   A big factor is they just don't feel like they'll ever catch up, the mountain is too high.   Sure, established players can breeze through stuff as it's released, because that's all the content they have.   Now think how awful it must be to try and grind poe, fortuna, deimos, quests, mr, star charts, railjack etc all at the same time.

Its sad when you have a bright-eyed, excited, new player, and then 2 months later they're depressed and losing interest fast only because they feel like they'll never catch up- and realistically, unless they no life the game for a looong time, they might very well never catch up.   Anyone who was around for release of poe has no idea how daunting this game is now for new players.   Even joining the game when fortuna was released was a cakewalk compared to now.

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As a returning player with 0 reps and MR11 when I came back I have had zero issues with the cap.

I even grinded out Kompressa! 0.9% of people have this achievement on steam, lol.

Edited by Kiaru
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I can't count the number of times that I've paused in my grinding, only to discover that I'm not gaining any more standing until tomorrow - or until I rank up in the syndicate. I wonder how much of my effort has been wasted because of these needless caps. I'd prefer it if the caps went away. They don't make sense to me. If I've played the missions, caught the fish, or whatever to earn the points in the game - it isn't right to refuse to give rewards for my effort just because I hit some artificial limit. 

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On 2021-08-03 at 7:40 PM, mixmonster1112 said:

A year ago I would have called this unneeded. This opinion of mine however has shifted to the opposition. The daily standing cap used to keep people from grinding out max rank in a faction too quickly, It may still serve such a purpose but that is not the point. The open worlds of Fortuna and PoE are only hindered by this now for new players wanting to grind and get a frame like Revanent or Garuda or Gauss or any frame that requires planetside mats to be built. a new player of MR 1-5 is going to see this and leave to do their main quest stuff and grind other things until they can easily gain their daily cap. an MR 6-10 may see this and have some issues with it. They have hit the mid point and now they want to farm out their planets and are stopped cold rather quickly. People have done the math to calculate standing gain and an hour of fishing alone give us more standing than even an MR 30 can collect. So tell me why the Devs have to rely on this now when so many people are still MR 1-9 and they have to deal with this daily cap? I think instead we should add ways to still earn while capped like sigils or increase the cap and add some more ranks with more items to get. bounties alone give fairly low standing and it's what most people run so I can see the argument there. But for players that are maxed for that day they should still be able to collect standing. I also think we should seperate standing from spending as well or at the very least make the BPs non-ranked required.

New players would normally have way too much going on than to worry about that...unless they are given too much information about the game. Warframe is all about discovering, earning, building and pacing. There are so many tasks in between those elements that caps shouldn't be an issue that quickly.

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On 2021-08-04 at 9:40 AM, mixmonster1112 said:

People have done the math to calculate standing gain and an hour of fishing alone give us more standing than even an MR 30 can collect.

sorry, mate. this sentences alone demonstrates a very common topic inside warframe:

"newer players haven't figured out how to optimize their methods and feel frustrated about the whole system."

and it's understandable since most systems in warframe are stupid convoluted, and the "cheeses" are not apparent. but once players found those cheeses, they all stop complaining and just do the cheese. there's no need to feel ashamed.

would i mind if the increase the cap or make it easier to get? of course no. i'm with you on this, buddy.
did i hated standings system just like you do now, before i understand various ways to cheese it? absolutely yes.
in a matter of act, i hated eidolons, liches, spy missions, disruptions, steel path... warframe for me is a constant cycle of hating something, then finding the cheese, and it doesn't seem so bad anymore.

====================

you can hop into archwing, then fly around and scan the abundant kavats that roams around at night.

might took a couple of tries to figure out, but once you get how to do it, an mr30 can max their daily standings in under ten minutes with almost zero effort, if compared to patiently fishing for hours on end moreover doing bounties.

now you can max your daily standings in under 10 minutes everyday, and move on to other activities that are actually fun.

good luck, tenno!

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