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[Spoilers] Grineer after War Within quest


TheWizardking2365

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So I replayed The War Within the other day for what has to be the umpteenth time, and I realized that we never really get to see how the grineer react to Teshin and the player killing the Elder Queen. This is a faction that is fanatically devoted to them to the point of worship, and yet the death of one of the queens doesn't seem to affect them all that much. I wish we got to see some of it in a quest sometime, as the grineers hatred of the tenno and Teshin would no doubt balloon to incredible levels. I hope in the future we get to witness the grineer people learning of the Elder Queens murder, and see the intense grief and pain it would no doubt cause them. I just think that DE is missing out on a really great opportunity to flesh out the grineer some more as a species, especially with what they've been doing with the Corpus, and how they seem to be setting up a civil conflict between Parvos Granum and the modern Corpus board. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

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It's also possible that the Grineer at large don't know the state of the Elder Queen as everything took place in their throne room with the only other Grineer present being the Kuva Guardians.

Also it's up in the air which ending is "cannon" as there is an ending where she isn't killed by you or Teshin. And, iirc, the random transmissions from Worm in the Fortress mention her sister being "sick" which might imply she's still alive.

Edit: Also in post War Within content (Lich content and the New War gameplay trailer) the Grineer still refer to them as the "Queens". Implying there are still two or again they are being kept unaware of the real situation.

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16 minutes ago, TheWizardking2365 said:

Ah. I didn't think of that. Is there a way I can edit it? This is my first time on the forums so I'm a bit out of my depth.

Yeah, no worries. Look at your first post, click the three little dots in the top-right corner of the post. It should say Report and Edit, click edit. The name (might be called title or subject) should be a text box for you to alter, just like the main body text.

Edit: Don't forget to click Save at the bottom!

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Why should the grineer troups know about her death? 

The young queen is actualy much of a coward herself, she escaped as soon as things got real and sent her guards to do the job.

A young, scared queen with not that much knowledge of fighting will centanly keep it hush hush and keep saying to the troups stuff like "this is the will of my sister" after evry order just to keep the grineer at bay. 

plus...and this is just my opinion, i'm kinda tired of Grineer lore. 

DE focussed on grineers for FAAAAAAR too long. now i want to see the corpus and the infested. 

hell, even a bit of lore on the sentients would be fine. 

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2 hours ago, TheWizardking2365 said:

So I replayed The War Within the other day for what has to be the umpteenth time, and I realized that we never really get to see how the grineer react to Teshin and the player killing the Elder Queen. This is a faction that is fanatically devoted to them to the point of worship, and yet the death of one of the queens doesn't seem to affect them all that much.

The answer is very simple:

38 minutes ago, trst said:

It's also possible that the Grineer at large don't know the state of the Elder Queen as everything took place in their throne room with the only other Grineer present being the Kuva Guardians.

They don' know. If you hang around on the Kuva fort, every now and then the White Queen will announce PSAs. One of the PSAs starts with "Listen up you [plural insult I forget], my sister is sick!"

Red Queen's death has been covered up

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Interestingly, the Guardians sometimes make some unclear reference in singular regarding the larving:

"Sukjekkt found. In her name."

"Soldier, you have been nominated. Your glory awaits in her fortress."

It might refer to one of the Queens or maybe to kuva, it is somewhat unclear what they mean specifically. So, maybe, the Guardians (and apparently liches) are aware that there is only a single active Queen.

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Remember that the Queens are Orokin using Grineer bodies. Also remember that Death is not final to them unless the Tenno did some macguffin during The Collapse.

And if you fail Kuva Siphons, Worms can say a line of "Sister, I can't wait to see your ugly face again."

So she can come back.

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It would have been covered up. Losing one of the Queens would be a hammer blow to morale if it got out.

Besides, what would happen if both bit the dust? The Grineer are genetically programmed to obey the Queens. Would they just cease to function, or go on a rampage?

They cant even go to the fallback of obeying they who holds the Kuva Staff seeing as we nicked it and have presumably tossed it into the bottom of our unused weapons pile somewhere in a dark corner of our orbiter 😂😂

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4 hours ago, TheWizardking2365 said:

So I replayed The War Within the other day for what has to be the umpteenth time, and I realized that we never really get to see how the grineer react to Teshin and the player killing the Elder Queen. This is a faction that is fanatically devoted to them to the point of worship, and yet the death of one of the queens doesn't seem to affect them all that much. I wish we got to see some of it in a quest sometime, as the grineers hatred of the tenno and Teshin would no doubt balloon to incredible levels. I hope in the future we get to witness the grineer people learning of the Elder Queens murder, and see the intense grief and pain it would no doubt cause them.

the thing about any dictatorial regimes (which the grineer are, just with a monarchy at the top) is that they rely on and employ secrecy to ensure any information that might negatively affect the morale of the people is silenced, hence organizations like the KGB that existed IRL.  the only people who know what happened in that room are the Queens, Teshin, a couple Kuva Guardians and us. obviously announcing the death of one of the queens would be an absolute hammer blow to all the grineer, and would affect their ability to wage war, so in order to keep their troops loyal, they essentially have to just not tell anybody, and maintain the Twin Queens omnipotent visage. any dissent on any level can be considered by the regime as "treasonous thoughts", which would of course result in punishment for the dissenters. fear of torture and execution keeps most grineer in line, aside form those few defectors who try to escape and join Steel Meridian, but for every grineer that escapes successfully, there must be a hundred or so that are found and executed or imprisoned. 

4 hours ago, TheWizardking2365 said:

especially with what they've been doing with the Corpus, and how they seem to be setting up a civil conflict between Parvos Granum and the modern Corpus board. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

oh, I definitely think that Parvos Granum and Nef Anyo will come to blows. no way is an ambitious and intelligent man like Parvos going to let Nef retain that much control of the Corpus board: Parvos is the founder of the Corpus, who's coat-tails Nef has been riding on, and Nef has also twisted Granum's philosophy into minimum-effort get-rich-quick schemes that exploit other people. Nef has no integrity compared to Granum, but he's unlikely to even think about stepping aside and giving up his power, so a Corpus Civil war is really a matter of when, not if.

and then of course, there's more than just Nef and Granum in the Corpus: I'm sure Alad V, being the opportunist he is, will notice this conflict and perhaps try to play both sides against the middle, or perhaps even be bold enough to make his own power grab!. I imagine after New War this will the next Corpus storyline that happens, but first we have to all unite and defeat the sentients, or risk being wiped out entirely, and once the Sentients are dead or back in Tau, it'll be business as usual once again!

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19 hours ago, LillyRaccune said:

Yeah, no worries. Look at your first post, click the three little dots in the top-right corner of the post. It should say Report and Edit, click edit. The name (might be called title or subject) should be a text box for you to alter, just like the main body text.

Edit: Don't forget to click Save at the bottom!

thank you very much, ill be sure to remember this

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19 hours ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

Why should the grineer troups know about her death? 

The young queen is actualy much of a coward herself, she escaped as soon as things got real and sent her guards to do the job.

A young, scared queen with not that much knowledge of fighting will centanly keep it hush hush and keep saying to the troups stuff like "this is the will of my sister" after evry order just to keep the grineer at bay. 

plus...and this is just my opinion, i'm kinda tired of Grineer lore. 

DE focussed on grineers for FAAAAAAR too long. now i want to see the corpus and the infested. 

hell, even a bit of lore on the sentients would be fine. 

thats true. I love the grineer, but I really want to learn more about the sentient and infested hive mind. Let's hope the new war delivers on the sentient part.

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17 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

Remember that the Queens are Orokin using Grineer bodies. Also remember that Death is not final to them unless the Tenno did some macguffin during The Collapse.

And if you fail Kuva Siphons, Worms can say a line of "Sister, I can't wait to see your ugly face again."

So she can come back.

Good point, it completely slipped my mind. The kuva siphon missions are the grineer gathering the kuva they need to resurrect the fallen queen, and the worm queen is merely covering up the elders death in the meantime.

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16 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

the thing about any dictatorial regimes (which the grineer are, just with a monarchy at the top) is that they rely on and employ secrecy to ensure any information that might negatively affect the morale of the people is silenced, hence organizations like the KGB that existed IRL.  the only people who know what happened in that room are the Queens, Teshin, a couple Kuva Guardians and us. obviously announcing the death of one of the queens would be an absolute hammer blow to all the grineer, and would affect their ability to wage war, so in order to keep their troops loyal, they essentially have to just not tell anybody, and maintain the Twin Queens omnipotent visage. any dissent on any level can be considered by the regime as "treasonous thoughts", which would of course result in punishment for the dissenters. fear of torture and execution keeps most grineer in line, aside form those few defectors who try to escape and join Steel Meridian, but for every grineer that escapes successfully, there must be a hundred or so that are found and executed or imprisoned. 

oh, I definitely think that Parvos Granum and Nef Anyo will come to blows. no way is an ambitious and intelligent man like Parvos going to let Nef retain that much control of the Corpus board: Parvos is the founder of the Corpus, who's coat-tails Nef has been riding on, and Nef has also twisted Granum's philosophy into minimum-effort get-rich-quick schemes that exploit other people. Nef has no integrity compared to Granum, but he's unlikely to even think about stepping aside and giving up his power, so a Corpus Civil war is really a matter of when, not if.

and then of course, there's more than just Nef and Granum in the Corpus: I'm sure Alad V, being the opportunist he is, will notice this conflict and perhaps try to play both sides against the middle, or perhaps even be bold enough to make his own power grab!. I imagine after New War this will the next Corpus storyline that happens, but first we have to all unite and defeat the sentients, or risk being wiped out entirely, and once the Sentients are dead or back in Tau, it'll be business as usual once again!

I totally agree. The more replies I read, the more I realize how poorly thought out my initial post was. Someone else on this thread made a point of how the kuva siphon missions imply that the worm is trying to resurrect the elder in a new body.

As for the Corpus civil war, I totally believe that it will become a major storyline after the new war. I was very concerned that DE had no idea where to take the story once the new war ends, so I was very relived and happy to see deadlock protocol and the call of the tempestari quests.  Not only is the idea of a Corpus civil war between the hard working and the lazy super interesting, but it also gives me assurance that DE knows where to go once we kick the Sentients asses for the second time. Also, the stuff about the emissary of Eris seems to be hinting at a future attack from the infested, and we will hopefully get to see what the hive intelligence is like up close.

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Ms Worm Queen said: "My sister is sick, you grey maggots. From now on, work details are doubled. Halved rations until Kuva distillation is meeting production targets!"

Maybe it's a lie, maybe it's the truth.

The Elder Queen is Orokin, they aren't good at dying.

Also in one of the endings, the Tenno shoots the Elder Queen in the heart. One look at her and you realize, she doesn't have a heart! :crylaugh: So obviously we didn't kill her because we missed her vital organs (sarcasm).

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20 hours ago, trst said:

It's also possible that the Grineer at large don't know the state of the Elder Queen as everything took place in their throne room with the only other Grineer present being the Kuva Guardians.

It does seem like the Elder Queen's death is being covered up by Worm Queen in order to maintain morale. This may not be 100% effective. During the TennoCon 2019 demo, showing off Grineer Railjack gameplay, one of the Grineer pilots says "For the Queens!" and another responds "Isn't one of them—" before their commander interrupts them. Depending on how canon you want to view this, it's possible that there are rumours swirling around the Grineer ranks.

20 hours ago, trst said:

Also it's up in the air which ending is "cannon" as there is an ending where she isn't killed by you or Teshin.

If you abstain from killing her, the choice is "Let her rot". Her body is nearing the end of its lifespan. Worm Queen says at the start of the quest "Your Continuity draws near." It's implied that she dies of old age shortly afterward if you do not kill her.

17 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

the thing about any dictatorial regimes (which the grineer are, just with a monarchy at the top) is that they rely on and employ secrecy to ensure any information that might negatively affect the morale of the people is silenced, hence organizations like the KGB that existed IRL.

The difference between the Grineer and a standard dictatorial regime is that the Grineer are genetically predisposed to obey the Queen(s). Mutations can arise that allow for rebellion, but the vast majority of Grineer cannot disobey an order. This means you need far fewer institutions for internal security.

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The Lotus herself thought the Queens were not real and just propaganda. The Kuva Fortress wasn't even known to her. So to common Grineer society they probably only hear about the Queens. It seems those that actually have ever met the sisters are very very few and far between.

I always imagined that the normal running of the empire was left to the council that Vay Hek is a part of. So in a sense the empire could live on without them (as I imagine it to work).

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