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Dev Workshop: Corrupted Holokey Changes


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Could we also have some way to ensure we don't get dropped into a ship held together with duck tape? This is extremely frustrating. I understand not excluding players from game modes—that's a good thing—but this goes beyond that.

 

If a greenhorn were to somehow wind up in Steel Path Mot (something that isn't possible!) it's not a big deal. I imagine most players that can get to Steel Path Mot can solo it reasonably well; one additional person is not going to ruin the experience.

 

Just about anyone can buy a Railjack from the cashshop. Even then, it's not hard to do the quest now. It's also not hard to properly equip your Railjack either, however in my experience, the majority of the players don't. So unlike the under geared player in SP Mot (which again can't happen) you can easily find yourself on someone else's junker of a Railjack. As far as I can tell, Railjack is the only game mode where someone can automatically ruin your experience. The closest other example is endless Fissures (mostly Excavation) where someone brings a nuking frame and goes HAM, preventing people from properly cracking their relics. However, even then, that's an ACTIVE problem as opposed to a PASSIVE problem.

 

It's possible to form parties in the LFG channel, but when I've had a long day or am stressed, the last thing I want to do is deal with that. I just want to hop into a mission. If there were more missions where you didn't have to leave your ship, I could solo these things, but the missions are designed in such a way that you really need two at least two people: one to remain in the ship and one to pilot the ship. I've solo'd these before but bouncing between ship and away team sucks. Also, this is a multiplayer game. I don't care if I'm carrying my team, I still want a team there.

 

It would be really nice if I could set something to ensure I'm host. That seems like the simplest fix. Another would be to host switch to another player if that someone else has better stuff on their ship. Or maybe just swap out a T1/T2 part with a T3 part based on squad number (if squad member 2 and T2 stuff, and 3 have T3, it goes to T3 for that part). Both of those two fixes seem hard to implement and potentially glitchy. We already have a bug that prevents people's own battle mods from working when they aren't host.

 

The other option I see is to somehow prevent people with junkers from going into higher tier zones which seems counter to the spirit of the game.

 

edit: Since there seems to be some confusion, I want to make clear that I'm not talking about keeping people out of nodes. Players aren't the issue. Their Plexus isn't the issue. Their Avionics aren't the issue. It's their ship itself that's the problem. Reading a reply to this, I think the problem may be that people don't realize that you have gear slots on your Railjack and that it is NOT OKAY to leave stock Sigma gear on there and then head out to the Veil.

Edited by EiraRozen
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On 2021-08-04 at 9:59 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Corrupted Holokey Changes: 

  • In the final Railjack Showdown node for a Sister of Parvos, each Sister will give each squad member 1 Corrupted Holokey at End-of-Mission whether you Vanquish or Convert them! This means a Squad of 4 can leave with 4 Corrupted Holokeys each on Showdown mission complete! 

  • Corrupted Holokey drop amounts have been increased in Void Storms! Void Storms in the Veil Proxima will now drop 10 (vs 6) to make the hardest content the most rewarding. The rest have all had their amounts increased by 1. 

 

Another punishment for playing early? Those "early adopters" are giving feedback and reporting bugs. How can you do this to them?

I'm glad that you're improving Holokeys farm, but you should compensate for this change.

Ambassador acquisition could use some changes too.

On 2021-08-04 at 9:59 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

See you in the next few weeks with these changes on all platforms, Tenno!

Why do we have to wait "few weeks" for this? Can't just put it in a hotfix?

Edited by Sebith
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Additionally, rollup script should be done to all Vanquished and Converted Sisters done before the patch, give all of them one Holokeys is not a hard thing to do, everyone has their Sister log in the game. Also, for who already farm Holokeys should have some compensation to the amount they lost.

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4 hours ago, Cappucchino said:

Additionally, rollup script should be done to all Vanquished and Converted Sisters done before the patch, give all of them one Holokeys is not a hard thing to do, everyone has their Sister log in the game. Also, for who already farm Holokeys should have some compensation to the amount they lost.

They won't as they haven't done anything to people literally wasting XP on helminth. Still sitting there at Rank 10 with all frames subsumed, and they expect people like me to waste their resources brainlessly.

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4 hours ago, Txdannyboo said:

DEV,

Just finished Final Railjack Showdown Node for a Sister of Parvos with 
a full Squad and I recieved 000000000 CORRUPTED HOLOKEYS....

 

6 hours ago, Sebith said:
  On 2021-08-04 at 9:59 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

See you in the next few weeks with these changes on all platforms, Tenno!

Few weeks bro

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Also, since we are in the air of revision workshops, can we expect a revision of lich weapon RNG? Its negative reception has been as much as overwhelming as holokeys farm but no sign of aknowledgment (even on the trello bord, despite being evidently number 1 critic). For sisters' weapons, luckily, this is still not an actual problem, 8 weapons are easy to farm and level to max, but we all know that in 3-6 months a new bunch of weapons will be out and all of those early adopter will have an awfully frustrating, boring and unrewarding farm ahead to target the new entries only. Yes, market exists, but that's a solution that implies waiting for the offer to resupply while not playing the actual game mode, and then playing it as less as possible, and i dont' think that's a happy result for you. Regarding kuva weapons the problem is hot right now.

This is not an off-topic: since we are speaking about holokeys, i think this is the optimal resource to farm and invest toward a more deterministic sister weapon outcome. Something like, 1 holokey = +1-2% chance of a desired weapon. Kuva weapons, on the other hand, are in a dire need of such a system. 

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I’m sorry but no. This isn’t enough. I love you guys but you need to seriously consider what makes a reward table worth coming back to. We need duplicate protection. We need better rewards. Playing hours to grind out cryptos for a random weapon? I’d rather you trash the system and place the melees into the sisters like other Tenet weapons. At least that is remotely engaging.
 

Additionally, while I’m at it, can we fix the rewards we get from steel path missions? They suck. 100+ bullet sponges for 5000 creds? Thank you but no.

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I hope solo players get more than 1 Corrupted Holokey or, at least, the same reward. If not, alternatively, maybe the number of Corrupted Holokeys earned can be dependent on the rank of the Corpus Lich at the time they are Vanquished / Captured, i.e., Rank 5 Lich gives 5 corrupted Holokey, Rank 4, gives 4 holokeys, etc.

I personally enjoy Railjack, it is, however, something I prefer to do solo because of several severe issue that it is confronted with when playing with a group; 1. the frequency of AKF players, 2. host lag 3. Pleas see God_is_a_Cat_Girl's comment above. 

Thank you, DE! 

Edited by SQH2
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This isn't going to fix the issue. If you want the simplest way to fix the issue, then guarantee at least one drop per mission. You could go up to more than one per mission for the higher levels, but at least one would make the grind bearable. There have been times when I have done the grind for these weapons for 2 hours and literally got 0 corrupted holo keys. That needs to not be the case.

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6 hours ago, iHeuksal said:

They won't as they haven't done anything to people literally wasting XP on helminth. Still sitting there at Rank 10 with all frames subsumed, and they expect people like me to waste their resources brainlessly.

Stop complaining about that. Invigorations give u 10->15  after about 7-9 invigorations. Its like u haven't played the game. You dont go to earth to lvl up weapons and warframe do u.

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22 minutes ago, ValloVN said:

Stop complaining about that. Invigorations give u 10->15  after about 7-9 invigorations. Its like u haven't played the game. You dont go to earth to lvl up weapons and warframe do u.

I don't give a crap about invigorations. Thought about that? Not everyone wants that bandaid system.

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This is a sort of an odd change. The problem is that a. theres only about a 40% chance to get any holokeys and b. that the price of those tenet weapons is kinda insane.

 

Getting a few more keys isn't gonna do anything if they don't drop. And getting keys for liches isn't gonna do anything for people that already farmed all the lich weapons and are not gonna do it anymore.

What stands out and is confusing, is that you get more keys for liches if you are in a squad. just give 4 keys for every lich completed, and give everyone 4 keys for every lich they have already completed. or just 1, because:

wouldn't it be easier to just reduce the cost of those weapons? you cant possibly give people the keys that they missed out on because the changes come now. in the end, its a change of "missions per purchase", so just change the price and reimburse the keys that people spend. it worked with railjack, it should work here.

 

To begin with, having absolute RNG on the tenet melee weapons, and absolute guarantee on the tenet ranged weapons is a tad odd. why not reduce the RNG by making the frop chance cumulative? at least on endless missions, which are worthless otherwise anyways. I'm thinking always minimum 25% -> if it doesn't drop, go up by 25% -> if it does drop, go down by 25%. that way, you would get at least 1 guaranteed drop after 4 rotations, and from then on it can only be guaranteed every 2 rotations. or instead of a drop chance, just make the drop guaranteed, and make the number random, such as lith 1-3, meso 2-5, neo 3-7, axi 4-10.

 

as it stands, farming 160 holokeys for all 4 weapons, and then about 6 times that to get the right element and maximise the bonus is just far too much.

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I use to feedback on Voidstrom once. And i don't think add holokey in them is fixing Voidstrom.

The "FACT" for farming Relic for ppl is, How efficiency run relic mission. Which mean Reward/Time, It's was only reason and will always be. That is the reason ppl choose to farm relic when fast pact mission is available. Such as Capture, and totally avoid time sink mission. Because it's will lower their efficiency.

To put Holokey in Voidstorm is just temp method to push ppl in Voidstorm. After they done farm holokey. It's give no meaning to stay doing relic in there since it's not efficiency ways to do them.

It's very easy to understand and make me wonder why DE not try to fix it at the core issue. Time you use to do voidstrom = 2 x time to use on normal Void mission = 3 x Void capture mission. So in same amount of time we can done 2 or 3 relics while finish 1 round of voidstrom. While voidstrom is high-end mission require you to build Railjack and mod them.

While you asking for more condition to access, setting up longer time to finish one mission but end up only 1 reward. So? is that not very common sense here that ppl not want to do them?

As i use to suggestion, Holokey is not function that help voidstrom. it's just temp method to force ppl in that why ppl want to finish it as fast as possible so they can just stop doing it.

On the conclusion. I still suggest the same ways as i use to suggest, Make Voidstrom can choose to equip 1-3 relic for each ppl in each round, ppl need get 10-30 reactant base on how many relic was equip during mission (It's will overflow anyways if you talking about railjack mission.) So make us can unlock 1-3 relic in each round. This will make it totally more efficiency with out need to add some sugar-coating to force ppl do them. So they will end up not feel forcing to do bad mission for farming holokey and waste their time. Make holykey as a bonus than target.

Anyways I'm the one that already got all Tenet melee and already get 3 replica to boost stat and get another stat. with 40 holokey still on stock. So I'm almost feel i'm done with voidstrom soon, no matter what fixing is going to land. So trust me i'm the one that keep farming even it's very horrible drop rate. to just finish it and forget about voidstrom until if anything new add. I'm have none of positive interest increasing during my time on voidstrom cause it's was time sink and negative efficiency ways to do relics.

Edited by LumilSilvermoon
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Would have been better to increase the drop chance or make it a guaranteed drop (if smaller amounts). There's nothing more frustrating than doing 5 or 6 Void Storms and come up emtpy handed, which is a common occurance at 37.5 chance.

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On 2021-08-04 at 10:59 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

In the final Railjack Showdown node for a Sister of Parvos, each Sister will give each squad member 1 Corrupted Holokey at End-of-Mission whether you Vanquish or Convert them! This means a Squad of 4 can leave with 4 Corrupted Holokeys each on Showdown mission complete! 

A nice bonus if you don't have my matchmaking problems, but not a gamechanger.

 

On 2021-08-04 at 10:59 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Corrupted Holokey drop amounts have been increased in Void Storms! Void Storms in the Veil Proxima will now drop 10 (vs 6) to make the hardest content the most rewarding. The rest have all had their amounts increased by 1. 

For reference:
I saw how Holokeys work, went 'yeah, no'.
Eventually decided to give it a try, so I have a 'real' basis for my opinion.
Did enough RJStorms to get 1 weapon. Decided that 'yeah, no' was accurate, and wrote off the Tenet melees.

Now, I see this.
To quote myself from the U30 RJStorm feedback thread:
"My absolutely most hated part of farming is farming Void Traces.
Between that and the pre-radiant relics, I'm good with Void Storm rewards."

But no, Void Traces were removed from RJStorms.
I'm sitting on a half-dozen-ish Sevagoths, having already built and subsumed a pair.
So if I'm doing T3 or T4 RJ, the only relevant rewards are rad relics (ESO's a better return on the time) and maaaaybe the sidequest rewards, since they're tradeable.
And even then, the Holokeys don't have any guaranteed drop.

So, I can either spam Veil (and while the Crewmates help a lot, the fedexing is frustrating) for an average of 3 keys per ~15 minutes (have I mentioned matchmaking problems?) maybe a rad Relic, and nothing else, or
I can do a Saturn storm for potential Epitaph parts (which I have, and spares), but an average of 1 key per ~13 minutes, or
Neptune storms for Nautilus? (which I have, though not spares) and ~1.5 keys per ~11 minutes.

Oooooor, I can say 'yeah, no'.

I think I'll stick with 'yeah, no'.
These changes are better than nothing, certainly, but they're nowhere near good enough for me to consider.

 

Did someone say 'Ambassador'?
I'd swear I heard someone say 'Ambassador'...

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Yeah, right cool but: the drop chance? Please, increase the chance of having holokeys even in other Void Storm missions, because it's a pain in the back doing Railjack mission just to see other prizes but no Holokeys. That's embarassing. I've done a lot of Void Storm mission and most of the time: 0 Corrupted Holokeys. We are not asking much.

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Just wanted to make it known that I'm extremely unhappy at the decision not to make content retroactive. Feels like it's best just to not touch new stuff for a month or two so I can wait for the rewards to be increased, because that's happened consistently for every content release recently. Yeah, okay, fine. Holokey grinding sucks. I got the weapons I wanted and maybe I'll get the others at some point. No way I'm maxing them.

I've already maxed the % element bonus on all the tenet weapons I care about, gotten every hound part many times over, and got all the ephemera I care about. How does adding holokeys to Sister confrontations help someone that's done that already?

e: oh, and Golden Instinct is extremely not good and I regret investing time and resources into farming the new helminth levels instead of just letting it come naturally. Why does the spark last all of 3 seconds AND have a 20 second cooldown? Was this playtested by someone that's used a frame that can break containers before?

Edited by estrodjinn
additional crit
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В 04.08.2021 в 23:02, Drungly сказал:

No changes to drop chance? That was my biggest complaint (and others too).

this. Or at least make some sort of pity counter, like "no drops for 7 missions - next will drop guranteed" idk... =/

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How does that help the players which already went through the sisters grind to get their tenet weapons? The people that finished that part won't benefit from the changes.

Same can be said about the increase of the keys in void storms... if you have bad luck you have bad luck and then it does not matter if you fail to get 6 keys or if you fail to get 10 keys. My current best is 34 void storms without getting a single key. Seriously, even just one guaranteed key per void storm would have meant a significant progress compared to this RNG crap.

And what do you mean with "See you in the next few weeks with these changes on all platforms, Tenno!"? The people are grinding their arse off now... not in a few weeks.

Edited by OP-R8R
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I'm pretty sure we all appreciated the new amount of corrupted key but is not what ppl are asking for, the problem are the drop rates I have stayed for 1 hr and got 0 holokeys, make it 100% guaranteed drop, why is so hard to fix that lil' problem?

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Well... me and my friends played for 6 - 7 hours and we finally got 6 Holokeys on Pluto. We're totally burned out and it was no fun at all getting all the ressources we have in bulk but no keys. I would highly appretiate it if you consider another buff for the drop chances so the drop is more consistent.

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