Dev Workshop: Corrupted Holokey Changes

[(PSN)zj0ker20]

This is all well and good, but it doesn't fix the drop-rates.

My idea is to add the Holokeys to the Granum Void drop tables to replace Endo.  We have enough sources for Endo already without sacrificing a Granum Crown for more.

[OP-R8R]

From the perspective of someone who so far did not have luck with holokeys:

 

0 x 6 keys = 0

0 x 10 keys = 0

0 keys = 0 motivation to play void storms any longer.

[Ianto]

11 hours ago, OP-R8R said:

From the perspective of someone who so far did not have luck with holokeys:

 

0 x 6 keys = 0

0 x 10 keys = 0

0 keys = 0 motivation to play void storms any longer.

At least you can probably make the 41 Sevagoths you have the blueprints for instead.

[Mr.Shadows]

That's a nice news, a lot of grind time saved:)

[OP-R8R]

vor 33 Minuten schrieb Ianto:

At least you can probably make the 41 Sevagoths you have the blueprints for instead.

I can probably build more than 41 meanwhile.

[MustaCWN]

Hi there,

I really wish the game would check how many frame/weapons parts i already have, and then use that to decrease the chance of getting another duplicate.

Lets say it decreases the duplicate chance by 20% for each one already in my inventory so if i already have 5 of the exact same part sitting there it wont drop again for me.

This would mean a measure of "player exclusive rolls" so my 5 duplicates wouldn't  stop another squad mate to get the part they are farming but you guys can surely pull this one off your hat :)

 

Over 2K hours on the game and I really want you guys to keep me hooked for another 2K couse the game dynamics and visual are great, but there is a limit on how many useless farm hours one can get before love turn into hate...

 

Have a nice one guys, and stay safe :)

 

Musta

[Schwarz_Ryu]

I cannot agree more especially true in holokey farm as to get 40 for 1 weapon we have to grind a long time that 7 runs where they drop x3 or more if you count drop chance but sometimes this drop chance is so screwed that we have to doubt if it is even correct. Like when you farm ephemera from sisters and won't get any in 13-15 sisters while some people get 3 or 4 in 5-8 sisters i wonder is still counted as 20% drop chance xD  

[(PSN)GrognakTB]

Take the time to read the feedback on this thread. The problem isnt the drop amount. Everyone is doing the same two mission types to farm holokeys and with the low drop chance it gets tedious and boring very quickly. If you want players to spend time playing railjack, this is not the way to do it. Increase the drop chance so it feels like maxing out an elemental bonus can be achieved by everyone in a reasonable time frame, not just those who get very lucky or have a lot of free time.

[(PSN)Impulse2988]

I started farming corrupted holokeys today and I kidd you not I've done 30 void storm missions and haven't even got one like what the actual heck? I really feel like DE needs to make similar changes to this resource like the did with steel essence and give us specific holokey incursions because this is a a joke to farm for 😡

[TaricTheAncient]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Impulse2988 said:

I started farming corrupted holokeys today and I kidd you not I've done 30 void storm missions and haven't even got one like what the actual heck? I really feel like DE needs to make similar changes to this resource like the did with steel essence and give us specific holokey incursions because this is a a joke to farm for 😡

I did 6 missions and got 36 holokeys i kid you not.

[quxier]

2 hours ago, TaricTheHealer said:

I did 6 missions and got 36 holokeys i kid you not.

I have done 26 radiants getting all common stuffs & uncommon formas.

On other hand I probably get near 30% holos

That's RNG for you. ;)

[Schwarz_Ryu]

2 hours ago, TaricTheHealer said:

I did 6 missions and got 36 holokeys i kid you not.

WOw man you had one hell of a luck i mostly get one 6 key drop from 3-5 missions but i usually don't have time to farm 160 / 320 holokeys.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

have done 26 radiants getting all common stuffs & uncommon formas.

On other hand I probably get near 30% holos

That's RNG for you. ;)

Incredibly demoralizing RNG when it comes to a currency. RNG with one-off drops live Sevagoth parts is one thing, because you only need to hit the jackpot once or twice, but resources is another beast.

Imagine if the game straight-out refused to give you Void Traces most of the time. Sure would be fun to farm up for a relic refinement when you could spend an entire evening getting f*ck all.

[quxier]

2 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Imagine if the game straight-out refused to give you Void Traces most of the time. Sure would be fun to farm up for a relic refinement when you could spend an entire evening getting f*ck all.

IMHO, refinements are even worse. Because you get that 100 VT and you see it changes nothing. You can spend, probably, hundreds Radiants and see nothing more than common stuffs. On other hand 40 Holos gives you 1 weapon.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

4 minutes ago, quxier said:

IMHO, refinements are even worse. Because you get that 100 VT and you see it changes nothing. You can spend, probably, hundreds Radiants and see nothing more than common stuffs. On other hand 40 Holos gives you 1 weapon.

You're free to have your opinion but that's just factually not true. Refining a relic from Intact to Radiant nearly doubles the chance for an Uncommon drop (22% to 40%) while the Rare chance goes up from 2% to 10%. That means on full refinement, you're just as likely to get a reward that's either Uncommon or Rare as you are to get a Common. So these sentences of yours are just straight-up false:

14 minutes ago, quxier said:

Because you get that 100 VT and you see it changes nothing. You can spend, probably, hundreds Radiants and see nothing more than common stuffs.

So your argument for why refinements are worse doesn't hold. 

19 minutes ago, quxier said:

On other hand 40 Holos gives you 1 weapon.

On the other other hand, 25.000 credits gives you 1 weapon - a Braton. Does that make the Braton harder to farm than a Tenet melee? No? And why's that? Because, who would've thought, some resources are harder to farm than others!

It's not the number of Holos needed that's the issue. It's not the reward amount.

It's the consistency.

[Tengarnos]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Perfectly_Framed_Waifu:

You're free to have your opinion but that's just factually not true. Refining a relic from Intact to Radiant nearly doubles the chance for an Uncommon drop (22% to 40%) while the Rare chance goes up from 2% to 10%. That means on full refinement, you're just as likely to get a reward that's either Uncommon or Rare as you are to get a Common. So these sentences of yours are just straight-up false:

Get more rare from normal relics than I do from rads. On average I run 10 rads and get 8common and 2uncommon, maybe every 20th or 30th gives me a rare. You know the problem with statistics is it only works as long as it isn't influenced by sth else. Like emotions, algorithms für drops in games or human errors in general.

That's exactly the same problem with the keys. Per dropchance one in three missions should drop them. Yet we are here since this doesn't happen consisten. ;)

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

14 minutes ago, Tengarnos said:

That's exactly the same problem with the keys. Per dropchance one in three missions should drop them. Yet we are here since this doesn't happen consisten. ;)

Gimme something I haven't covered in a comment already ;)

59 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Incredibly demoralizing RNG when it comes to a currency. RNG with one-off drops live Sevagoth parts is one thing, because you only need to hit the jackpot once or twice, but resources is another beast.

 

[Tengarnos]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Perfectly_Framed_Waifu:

Gimme something I haven't covered in a comment already ;)

 

Funny how you ignored the 90% rest of my post but ok.

[EiraRozen]

18 hours ago, Ianto said:

At least you can probably make the 41 Sevagoths you have the blueprints for instead.

Sevegoth: The new Harrow... except you have more than just one blue print part.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

5 minutes ago, Tengarnos said:

Funny how you ignored the 67.6% rest of my post but ok.

Funny how someone is able to respond to your comment without quoting it in its entirety, yeah. Funny how you choose to complain about that rather than adress the pre-stated counterpoint.

1 hour ago, Tengarnos said:

;)

(Also, fixed your % to represent reality.)

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

You're free to have your opinion but that's just factually not true. Refining a relic from Intact to Radiant nearly doubles the chance for an Uncommon drop (22% to 40%) while the Rare chance goes up from 2% to 10%. That means on full refinement, you're just as likely to get a reward that's either Uncommon or Rare as you are to get a Common. So these sentences of yours are just straight-up false:

Nope. You know what's probability is? You have a box with 10 balls. 9 balls are blue and 1 ball is red. You put your hand (not seeing colors of the balls) and pick one. You have 10% chance to get red. You put the ball back. What's your chance of getting red ball? It's still 10%.

Now, next problem is 40% of getting uncommon. Sure, it's 40% of getting one uncommon part... OR UNCOMMON FORMA (which I consider common stuffs). You get 20% chance to get uncommon part.

Summing it up you get 30% to get uncommon or rare part.

Sure, that's a change but it's so small that I haven't seen any change in 26 runs.

1 hour ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

On the other other hand, 25.000 credits gives you 1 weapon - a Braton. Does that make the Braton harder to farm than a Tenet melee? No? And why's that? Because, who would've thought, some resources are harder to farm than others!

It's not the number of Holos needed that's the issue. It's not the reward amount.

Of course RJ is harder for some of us (I don't have good gear and, for example, Veil Storm took me ~1 hour) but I mean how certain you are to get a weapon. You need to farm relics, then Void traces. If I gave you 100 radiants to do solo can you tell me that you will get at least 1 uncommon and 1 rare stuff? No, you cannot.

Now take Holos. It drops 1/3 of missions. If you do 21 you should get 42 Holos. That's 1 weapon guaranteed. Sure, it can takes more than 21 runs but you still get that weapon guaranteed. Of course if it takes much more missions per drop then I consider it as a bug.

[Tengarnos]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Perfectly_Framed_Waifu:

Funny how someone is able to respond to your comment without quoting it in its entirety, yeah. Funny how you choose to complain about that rather than adress the pre-stated counterpoint.

(Also, fixed your % to represent reality.)

If it wasn't the point but there is no point in talking longer to you. 1. you aren't able to take criticism. 2. you can't understand what you read. So yeah act more high and mighty so other can laught. I responded to the main part of your post saying whats wrong. Instead of at least go in it you pick the one part which was simply a side note and act like it was the point of my post. I don't do it often so you can kinda see it as a trophy, welcome to my ignore list.

[DoomFruit]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Now take Holos. It drops 1/3 of missions. If you do 21 you should get 42 Holos. That's 1 weapon guaranteed. Sure, it can takes more than 21 runs but you still get that weapon guaranteed. Of course if it takes much more missions per drop then I consider it as a bug.

"Guaranteed" and "RNG outcome with no lower bound" do not belong in the same sentence. 21 missions does not guarantee enough keys for a tenet weapon. 210 missions do not guarantee it. 210 million do not guarantee it.

Void fissures give 6-30 traces. That's RNG, but there's a lower bound. Do 100/6 = 17 missions (rounded up) and you are guaranteed enough void traces to max out a relic.

The bigger question is why it's even got this slot machine crap in the first place. If T4 void storms supposedly have a 35% chance of 10 keys, why can't they just be a guaranteed 3 (or 4) holokeys instead? It's the same on average, but with zero frustration because each and every time, you are guaranteed to make progress. Actual guaranteed, not fake imitation "guaranteed-style product" that you have here.

EDIT: hell, why not just let us sell Sevagoth bits for holokeys. Or replace them with keys and put him in the Perrin dude's shop. It's not like we're going to have a use for fifty Sevagoth sets.

[quxier]

2 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

"Guaranteed" and "RNG outcome with no lower bound" do not belong in the same sentence. 21 missions does not guarantee enough keys for a tenet weapon. 210 missions do not guarantee it. 210 million do not guarantee it.

Void fissures give 6-30 traces. That's RNG, but there's a lower bound. Do 100/6 = 17 missions (rounded up) and you are guaranteed enough void traces to max out a relic.

Read what I've written. 21 mission IF it drops Holos every 3rd mission.

Having 100 void traces doesn't mean you get a rare or an uncommon part.

6 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

The bigger question is why it's even got this slot machine crap in the first place. If T4 void storms supposedly have a 35% chance of 10 keys, why can't they just be a guaranteed 3 (or 4) holokeys instead? It's the same on average, but with zero frustration because each and every time, you are guaranteed to make progress. Actual guaranteed, not fake imitation "guaranteed-style product" that you have here.

Having "unrestricted" RNG is just easier. I've posted about having 1 guaranteed Holo:

Higher missions could give e.g. 2 guaranteed Holos.

ps. now it's only 6 afair

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

58 minutes ago, quxier said:

Nope. You know what's probability is? You have a box with 10 balls. 9 balls are blue and 1 ball is red. You put your hand (not seeing colors of the balls) and pick one. You have 10% chance to get red. You put the ball back. What's your chance of getting red ball? It's still 10%.

Apparently, you don't. In that example, it's 10% for each individual try. But you weren't talking about individual tries before. You were talking about hundreds of tries without a single success.

3 hours ago, quxier said:

You can spend, probably, hundreds Radiants and see nothing more than common stuffs

Lemme give you a basic example. You got a coin with a 50% chance for heads, 50% chance for tails. You toss it. The chance to not get heads is 50%. You toss it again. The chance to not get heads is still 50%. However, over those two coin tosses, you've created four possible outcome scenarios: T/T, T/H, H/T, H/H, all with an equal 25% chance to occur. Thus, the chance to not get any heads over two tosses is 25%, not 50%.

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Now, next problem is 40% of getting uncommon. Sure, it's 40% of getting one uncommon part... OR UNCOMMON FORMA (which I consider common stuffs). You get 20% chance to get uncommon part.

Summing it up you get 30% to get uncommon or rare part.

Sure, that's a change but it's so small that I haven't seen any change in 26 runs.

This only holds true if 100% of the relics have the possibility to contain a Forma as an Uncommon drop. Still, that doesn't change the fact that the chance to get a reward that's not on the Common drop table is 50%. But sure, I'll humor you and give you that 30% chance to get an Uncommon or Rare. Hell, let's go for Rares only, 10%!

3 hours ago, quxier said:

You can spend, probably, hundreds Radiants and see nothing more than common and uncommon stuffs.

We got a 90% chance to not get a Rare. At one hundred tries, that's a 0.9^100 chance to not get a Rare, or a 0.002656139% chance, meaning that in one hundred tries, there's a 99.99734386% chance to get at least one Rare.

In short, you're completely wrong.

1 hour ago, quxier said:

If I gave you 100 radiants to do solo can you tell me that you will get at least 1 uncommon and 1 rare stuff? No, you cannot.

In fact, I can with a 1-0.7^100 (aka 99.99%+) chance of being right.

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Now take Holos. It drops 1/3 of missions. If you do 21 you should get 42 Holos. That's 1 weapon guaranteed. Sure, it can takes more than 21 runs but you still get that weapon guaranteed. Of course if it takes much more missions per drop then I consider it as a bug.

Of course, if you had read this thread a bit more thoroughly, then you would've been considering it a bug already.

37 minutes ago, Tengarnos said:

If it wasn't the point but there is no point in talking longer to you. 1. you aren't able to take criticism. 2. you can't understand what you read. So yeah act more high and mighty so other can laught. I responded to the main part of your post saying whats wrong. Instead of at least go in it you pick the one part which was simply a side note and act like it was the point of my post. I don't do it often so you can kinda see it as a trophy, welcome to my ignore list.

1.

3 hours ago, Tengarnos said:

That's exactly the same problem with the keys.

That sentence makes the bit I quoted not "simply a side note". That sentence is an attempt by you to tie what you previously stated to what followed, whereby my response was a quote from earlier stating that it's a different problem between relics and keys.

2. If you feel offended that I chose not to follow you on the relic topic, in a thread about holokeys, that's not my business. Block me for that if you want to.