Dev Workshop: Corrupted Holokey Changes

[-TSA-warramssie]

...

 

guess what ... more often than not , you do 5 daily Steelpath encursions and you dont get a single acolyte spawn, o but you have your Ayatan Anasa from the sortie, right ? .. isnt that compensation enough ?  ..... 

 

You all really want too much out of this grind , be a little bit more modest for once  ... :)

[quxier]

 

4 minutes ago, -TSA-warramssie said:

guess what ... more often than not , you do 5 daily Steelpath encursions and you dont get a single acolyte spawn, o but you have your Ayatan Anasa from the sortie, right ? .. isnt that compensation enough ?  ..... 

You all really want too much out of this grind , be a little bit more modest for once  ... :)

Some stuffs in this game have huge grind or rng (whenever a person is just unlucky or it's just bad chance  for all). If none one says a word then it will get worse.

[(PSN)LordNezarec]

any recent news, when is it coming to warframe? etc

[Ms_Salami]

sept 8, and yes, holokey workshop was a waste of time and a delay tactic... no feedback listened to

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

2 minutes ago, Ms_Salami said:

sept 8, and yes, holokey workshop was a waste of time and a delay tactic... no crying listened to

fixed it for you

[Ms_Salami]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)Boomstickman98 said:

fixed it for you

O youre one of 'those' 

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

11 minutes ago, Ms_Salami said:

O youre one of 'those' 

A person with the right to think that they are crying? Besides, it is true when it all comes down to "the grind's too haarrddd!!! make it guaranteed for 100% of the drop or nothing matters!" Sounds like crying to me.

[OP-R8R]

Why do you even do a workshop if EVERYTHING the players wrote is being totally ignored.

You went with exactly what was written on the very first post, ignored 20 pages of feedback and wasted a full month of time.

 

If you had listened just a bit to the valid concerns of the players we could be looking forward to a true improvement of this messed up situation. If you just had announced the changes mentioned in the very first post and instantly released these changes along the done hotfixes (apparently it involves only to edit a few numbers) then we also would have been in a better situation because we would not have wasted all that much time. Players have ignored the Sisters since this workshop was put up... waiting for positive changes... actually trying not to waste time fighting sisters before the announced changes would go live.

[OP-R8R]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Boomstickman98:

A person with the right to think that they are crying? Besides, it is true when it all comes down to "the grind's too haarrddd!!! make it guaranteed for 100% of the drop or nothing matters!" Sounds like crying to me.

What you call crying is players sharing their experiences with the miserable situation, that DE considered miserable enough to open this topic and do changes (eventhough these changes will fix nothing for a vast amount of players).

[(PSN)LordNezarec]

32 minutes ago, Ms_Salami said:

sept 8, and yes, holokey workshop was a waste of time and a delay tactic... no feedback listened to

Thanks mate

[Grav_Starstrider]

3 minutes ago, OP-R8R said:

Why do you even do a workshop if EVERYTHING the players wrote is being totally ignored.

You went with exactly what was written on the very first post, ignored 20 pages of feedback and wasted a full month of time.

 

If you had listened just a bit to the valid concerns of the players we could be looking forward to a true improvement of this messed up situation. If you just had announced the changes mentioned in the very first post and instantly released these changes along the done hotfixes (apparently it involves only to edit a few numbers) then we also would have been in a better situation because we would not have wasted all that much time. Players have ignored the Sisters since this workshop was put up... waiting for positive changes... actually trying not to waste time fighting sisters before the announced changes would go live.

They've also been 99% ignoring the pre-release workshops and post-release feedback megathreads for Helminth's update, and Yareli's just getting pitiful numerical and handling tweaks (needed, but not a complete fix) and a bullet-jump-like dash, and they doubled down on "We're Focused On New War" a million times throughout the stream, so I have no faith that they intend to respond to any of the feedback at all. Or if they do, it's sitting on the backburner, waiting for them to finish New War first :/

11 minutes ago, (PSN)Boomstickman98 said:

A person with the right to think that they are crying? Besides, it is true when it all comes down to "the grind's too haarrddd!!! make it guaranteed for 100% of the drop or nothing matters!" Sounds like crying to me.

Inconsistent drop rates means some poor unlucky bastard has never gotten any of them. The lower the drop chance, and the fewer opportunities (or more time) per potential drop, the more egregiously obnoxious it is. DE built their reputation on being devs that listened to their players, and created the game the players wanted to play and pay money for. That's the whole purpose of the forums. Blindly criticizing other critics for being critical is super pointless and not constructive. Having some small amount guaranteed, with a chance of a larger payout, is good design. DE nailed this system with Deimos, putting a ton of things in both mission/bounty reward drop tables, but also redeemable with tokens. Putting things exclusively behind RNG like with the Holokeys was sucky, by comparison. People get rightfully frustrated when a team seems to have learned the right way to implement a system, and then fails to do so the next time.

The forums are only useful if people use it for constructive dialogue, and if DE listens. I hope DE listens (and responds!!!) more than they have been recently, and I hope we can actually provide reasons behind our opinions on things like these Holokeys. You know. Instead of just consistently demeaning other players and their opinions :V

[(XBOX)MyMindIsStable]

On 2021-08-04 at 3:02 PM, Drungly said:

No changes to drop chance? That was my biggest complaint (and others too).

This, right here. I ran 20 runs trying to get these blasted keys, and I got zero (0) drops. Not running for these until drop chance is boosted

[(PSN)KacieUinHell]

On 2021-08-04 at 4:02 PM, Drungly said:

No changes to drop chance? That was my biggest complaint (and others too).

That's what I'm wondering. It's not the amount, it's getting the damn things to drop in the first place

[(NSW)Wuzzup129]

It was never the drop amount that made farming corrupted holokeyes stressful, it was the drop CHANCE.

[thurmack]

Any word yet on what they are going to do about people that already farmed all the weapons? Any holokey refunds or what-have-you?

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

6 hours ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

People get rightfully frustrated when a team seems to have learned the right way to implement a system, and then fails to do so the next time.

This. There's been such a slew of rookie mistakes when it comes to various balancing acts in Warframe lately that if we don't see any improvements by the time the next frame drops, I'm probably gonna take an indefinite break from the game.

"Introducing the Helminth system. We've pre-nerfed some abilities because they might be too OP if allowed on any warframe, like Defy, Larva, or Quiver. By the way, here's a channeled 95% AoE slow for all frames!"

[Jarriaga]

1 hour ago, thurmack said:

Any word yet on what they are going to do about people that already farmed all the weapons? Any holokey refunds or what-have-you?

Absolutely nothing.

If DE had any intention to soothe the pain of their own design choices they would have announced an increased drop chance today in the dev stream news instead of linking back to this topic.

[DoomFruit]

Well, that sucks. Still no actual fix to the problem with holokeys. Or the related problem that you're going to have eighty bazillion Sevagoth parts and exactly zero use for them.

[NetworkGuy]

9 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Absolutely nothing.

If DE had any intention to soothe the pain of their own design choices they would have announced an increased drop chance today in the dev stream news instead of linking back to this topic.

We had the same problem with Railjack. It took a while, but DE eventually refunded a ton of materials that were used to build the first Railjacks.  Keep up the pressure on DE and they will make it right.

[master_of_destiny]

So....I'm disappointed.  

 

As per usual, DE has double standards.  They identify that there's a problem.  They put out a non-fix, in a thread requesting feedback.  They wait weeks before addressing it in a developer stream...where literally none of the feedback was even acknowledged.  

 

Oh...but there are some people here who said everything was fine...  Ahh.  You've cited that joyful selective listening that DE gets away with, as though it was a positive.  As long as one person says it's good in a forum where there are 19+ pages of comments stating that it's bad, DE listened to feedback.

 

 

Why even expect better?  The holokeys are a sticking point.  The new enemies were released without a drop table.  Yareli's getting the numerical buffs...also without feedback.  Oh, but we can forgive everything, right?  DE's reintroducing Plaguestar...with the ghoulsaw...  Yay.  Another limited time event locking content behind it, that if they pull the crap they did last year will literally mean that nobody can earn it about 90% of the year.  Come on DE...did you think the weekend boosters were enough that the rest of this garbage, and having basically all feedback ignored, would be a good look?

 

F***.  I don't have any more eloquent way to put this...and at this point, it deserves nothing better.

 

 

Oh, but Nidus Prime comes with the Strun Prime.  A weapon with a MK-1, standard, and wraith version already.  Oh joy...it'll be the Braton all over again.  How do you expect the community to respond to this?  I mean, it's not like Nidus released with two weapons that would be unique to see a prime of (say, the Hema and Hirudo)...oh wait...Nidus released with those exact same weapons in 19.5.  Oh boy, the disappointment from holokeys now has actual competition...  Yes, that's my link to the topic, to not be off-topic.  Disappointment for this, framed by disappointment all around.

[Talinthis]

24 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

So....I'm disappointed.  

I pretty well gave up on them, haven't logged on in many months. Map waypoints are still bugged from when sanctuary onslaught came out, has never been fixed. I had a bunch of things like that but i can't find my list anymore. Any time i come here i am just disappointed by patch notes, lol. Did they release that mod where you can't even equip a melee to make your weapon stronger yet?

 

14 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

This. There's been such a slew of rookie mistakes when it comes to various balancing acts in Warframe lately that if we don't see any improvements by the time the next frame drops, I'm probably gonna take an indefinite break from the game.

"Introducing the Helminth system. We've pre-nerfed some abilities because they might be too OP if allowed on any warframe, like Defy, Larva, or Quiver. By the way, here's a channeled 95% AoE slow for all frames!"

DE always felt like a home ran business than an actual professional dev team to me. I love the guys but man nothing they release is actually good when it comes out. All they do is nerf things i have fun with 2-3+ years later after it has existed. They always say it was "never intended" or they "decide" that it needs to be changed after all this time.

[Ketec]

The drop rate and amount or prices need to change.

I still have 0 tenet melee and will not likely bother with one  for the next year at the rate you acquire the holokeys right now.

Ran 20 void in saturn trying to get  epitaph barrel (which i didn't -_-) - i got exactly 4 x 4 holokeys.


The  extra keys from the final showdown is absolutely pointless change at this point. Everyone got the weapons they wanted from them already. Very few bother minmaxing for the max % on them.

[master_of_destiny]

On 2021-08-28 at 1:29 PM, Talinthis said:

I pretty well gave up on them, haven't logged on in many months. Map waypoints are still bugged from when sanctuary onslaught came out, has never been fixed. I had a bunch of things like that but i can't find my list anymore. Any time i come here i am just disappointed by patch notes, lol. Did they release that mod where you can't even equip a melee to make your weapon stronger yet?

 

DE always felt like a home ran business than an actual professional dev team to me. I love the guys but man nothing they release is actually good when it comes out. All they do is nerf things i have fun with 2-3+ years later after it has existed. They always say it was "never intended" or they "decide" that it needs to be changed after all this time.

So...I want to say that frustration is abound.  At the same time, let's at least try to keep this related (if tangentially) to the holokeys.

 

Let me, for just a moment, frame this in a different light from the usual.  DE knows that they're releasing garbage drop rates...and that they'll gain notice for these systems because some angry reddit group will call them out.  This will in-turn gain PR.  No PR is bad PR...and people will try out the game.  The grind minimization at the beginning of this game, combined with the tutorial that people have requested for years finally being implemented, will get DE new players based off of negative feedback.

 

 

So...negative feedback is a positive for DE....and saying that hurts my brain.  Fine.  Let's then look at what veterans bring to the table.  Well toroids, scintillant, and corrupted holokeys are now all in the same category.  Items DE has released, the drops are "broken" at release and after about two to three months are magically "fixed" before being forgotten.  Why would they do this?  Well, the simple answer is to put a huge grind wall in for early adopters, and then to look like they're listening to feedback months later when the people who don't have their lives revolving around this game finally have something to earn.  I can't be the only one who basically saw this as necramech mods 2.0....where the drop rate for mods was so low that it'd literally take thousands of runs to earn the things....assuming DE ever did the math and figured out there was no mathematical way to equip a mod in all slots due to their costing....assuming you had 12/12 polarized slots.

 

So, what is my feedback now?  Well, my feedback is that no feedback to DE matters.  Not unless I'm a member of their unpaid sales force (youtubers), or a celebrity of sorts.  I've recently been watching the Josh Hayes videos...and it's apparent to me that they've got their new poster boy.  He didn't play far enough to unlock 98% of the content, but he's willing to gush over what took the better part of a decade to put in-game...while spending the barest minimum time on criticism of the fundamentally flawed nature of every release for the last four years.  Oh boy, someone willing to miss the forest for the trees....because they simply cannot understand that every release is an abomination in some form....that takes months to be good, assuming it ever is.  How is that "accomplishment" of grinding out the Hema research...I say, having it but gladly looking forward to its cost being 10% of current for any new players to research.

Oh, but what about the Ignis Wraith.  Assuming you were active at the right time, your clan could produce the blue prints for in-game resources...and years later it's a vestigial reward.

But bringing this back, DE can choose to make a garbage release, and it doesn't hurt them.  They can consistently do so, and there's no penalty.  If this is the case, and they can literally just ignore consistent feedback, then who cares?  This level of ego eventually will collapse the community until those remaining are whales and newcomers...which is only a problem if you cannot support the community by collapsing multiple platforms into crossplay as the community on platforms thins.  Between that, and taking beloved events (read: formastar...I mean Plaguestar) away only to bring them back as a "gift to the community" bouyed by an unprecedented two months of weekend booster events, you don't need to listen.

 

 

Let me short this to you DE.  I know you've got someone to cull threads, and hopefully they're also listening.  Six years ago you has a die hard base.  People who would buy into the full AAA price multiple times a year, through Prime Access.  Now, it's impossible to do that.  You suck the fun out of the game when I'm being forced to grind your game modes to improve engagement numbers, because a 37.5% drop chance is what you've tied core content to.  To clarify, that's the corrupted holokey system.  I cannot support this level of crass hatred for the people who allow you to milk the whales willing to be fashion divas at the expense of real money.  Especially not when the exact same costs for skins in Fallout  76 were a joke...that you somehow decided was not really a joke.

Swing and a miss...that has me hoping engagement tanks further.  The Dime, which you should understand, won't let things fail...and maybe a hard enough kick to the teeth will make DE reconsider their inability to make a good game first, and trust their fans to give them money because it's fun to play.  No, it's so much better to have a 0.00066% chance drop...that's the Bite mod btw...to force grind.  Yeah...it's not Korean grind MMO levels...but neither DE nor I live in Korea where that's acceptable either.

[(PSN)Doc_Eyepatch]

I will never farm another sister of parvos, i will never farm holokeys, i feel sorry for those who still have keys to farm, having a sister steal your loot across the star chart sounds like a great way for new players to get keys lol. Having these exclusive third party weapons like vastilok and athodai just seems like a Tencent information scam on your players that followed you for years we give you our social media data and Tencent sells it thanks, your care of this calamity shows buy how you treat your veteran players like the latest anniversary rewards we the veterans are overlooked again, no reward for us i sure hope you dont let Tencent buyout end Everything you worked so hard not to become or is it to late?  

[(PSN)ramonesco]

Drop chance for Ambassador and Holokey is sucks... DE know it...