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When I was new and got my head around basic movement (thankfully the new tutorial explains things a bit better now), I just went off and followed the quests.

Lotus would always tell me there were new quests available every time I logged in and the quests themselves gave info on what needed to be done to unlock them. 

Eventually you go through the star chart and clear most of it out while doing do and theres a good wiki to look up specifics like where to get mods if I couldn't be bothered to use the codex

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9 hours ago, [DE]CoreyOnline said:

Hi! We had hoped to be able to share the results of this experiment sooner, but we decided to extend it and run it on consoles as well. We can share learnings once it's 100% wrapped up. Thanks~ 

I am just heartened by the fact you guys are paying close attention the NPE and constantly working on it. As long as ya'll keep an eye on the statistics and tweak as necessary and understand it is an important part of the games long term existence, I think WF will be in a great place. 

Cheers! 

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On 2021-08-06 at 11:57 AM, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

I recently finished carrying a friend from mastery one to mastery 10 and all I can say is the game kind of needs hand holding like I get that it has tutorials and junctions and all that other stuff but like just a serious disconnect that a new player has an a veteran in terms of knowing what to do is just unbelievable. For example my friend didn't know that he had to craft items with blueprints you could buy in the marketplace, he didn't have any idea how to even reach junctions or what they are, there was really nothing telling him where to go or what to do so I'm wondering do you think the game could use just kind of a forced story like for example is just some kind of arbitrary storyline that helps you get from the beginning of the game all the way to the end of sedna while explaining mechanics as they come up and holding players hands essentially the entire way through. Any veteran player can say that the starting crunch is basically unbearable and it needs some kind of push.

I found carrying friends through the early parts of the game will only make it worse for them.

"Carrying" in this game teaches the carried absolutely nothing, it just give them the rewards and left them clueless on how the mission was solved.

Imho the better education is to just play the early parts solo so they definitely pushed every buttons and solved every missions themselves. Best thing you can do is stand by them and be ready to answer every questions.

 

Either people have what it takes to enjoy warframe, or they should just put up the money for ffxiv. It's not ideal, i know.

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There are things that should be told better in the game, like obscure drop locations and such but....

Buuuuut...

But the examples you are giving are monstruously hilarious. Seriously ? Your friend had trouble finding a junction ? He needed someone to help him figure out how to get blueprints ?

That's the kind of basic sheet that is supposed to be solved with a third of a brain and half asleep, by just looking around, trying stuff, engaging with the game. Did your friend, right after arriving to the orbiter, just stopped in place "I don't know what to do", nearly catatonic ?

Damn boy... do people really need that much hand holding nowadays ? Is really clicking a few menus to see what is open to you at the time that much of an effort ?

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1 hour ago, Fallen77 said:

Damn boy... do people really need that much hand holding nowadays ? Is really clicking a few menus to see what is open to you at the time that much of an effort ?

I’m not trying to come off as some old guy preaching about “back in my day”, but the instant gratification and sort of hyper connected world the new generation of gamer grew up in probably plays into the problem a little bit. So yeah, even a little bit of effort might be considered too much to some when they just want to get to wiping out enemies like the plague. If anything, too many games hold your hand nowadays, I always thought warframe was rewarding just slowly figuring things out over time. I never hit a wall and didn’t know what to do. The wiki is basically your online instruction manual which answers literally everything. 

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I pretty much learned everything from Warframe Wikia. I don't recall finding anything particularly useful in codex (or in-game generally speaking).

I remember having no idea how to do Kuva Siphon because the game just throw me in a Kuva Siphon mission and Lotus actually tells you what to do AFTER you collect the Kuva clouds.

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People seem to forget that for the mainstream, which is where money comes from that even allows most games to exist, is for the purpose of having fun/passing time. Unless all these people bashing someone for being confused and overwhelmed want to personally fund games they play, it makes little sense to claim others are "entitled idiots"... I would say bashing the people funding the games you're playing is entitled.

It's also not as if "hand-holding" new players ruins the experience of anyone who already is experienced. Even for someone experienced in games trying Warframe, or want to figure everything on their own, it's as simple as being given the option to ignore new player tips, it's something a large number of games already do. If games need to hold people's hand to get them to play and spend their money, then that's not going to bother me. I just turn these off in every game, even if I'm new to them, and enjoy the funding provided by people that spend more than I do.

The game is missing basic information on what even abilities do. DE themselves have been shown to not even be sure what a Warframe is supposed to do and easily convinced an intended function of a Warframe is an actual "bug". Yet somehow, it's a surprise someone who's never played Warframe could possibly be lost when they first start, when at this point in the game there's an excessive amount of systems, different types of tools, and no real sense of direction unless you navigate through a bunch of vague menus until you find out yourself.

I've had to explain some fairly basic things to people over the years, and the reason was never because they lacked basic brain functions. They just weren't sure what to do, how to get things, how everything in the arsenal and different menus interacted with each other, or what the goal of progression even was. Having to consult the wiki for basic things is an unneeded inconvenience and isn't an excuse to just omit information that should be present in the game. This is also equivalent to just doing homework/busy work, which goes against the "playing games for fun". Having to seek information is something that really should only be for specific things that aren't tied to basic functions, or someone seeking to improve their performance beyond average levels.

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On 2021-08-06 at 12:57 AM, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

I recently finished carrying a friend from mastery one to mastery 10 and all I can say is the game kind of needs hand holding like I get that it has tutorials and junctions and all that other stuff but like just a serious disconnect that a new player has an a veteran in terms of knowing what to do is just unbelievable. For example my friend didn't know that he had to craft items with blueprints you could buy in the marketplace, he didn't have any idea how to even reach junctions or what they are, there was really nothing telling him where to go or what to do so I'm wondering do you think the game could use just kind of a forced story like for example is just some kind of arbitrary storyline that helps you get from the beginning of the game all the way to the end of sedna while explaining mechanics as they come up and holding players hands essentially the entire way through. Any veteran player can say that the starting crunch is basically unbearable and it needs some kind of push.

This is correct. DE did a great job with the NPE getting players started. They now need to add several more structured quests to carry players through the first couple of planets. These could be as simple as having a quest have them purchase a MR0/1 weapon from the marketplace and craft it. And having a quest that introduces the junctions.  Doing a better job introducing/explaining the modding system wouldn't hurt. Bottom line, I think they need to introduce the basic game systems and provide enough instruction to keep people interested. Otherwise they will continue to have NP attrition issues.

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5 hours ago, KosmicKerman said:

This is correct. DE did a great job with the NPE getting players started. They now need to add several more structured quests to carry players through the first couple of planets. These could be as simple as having a quest have them purchase a MR0/1 weapon from the marketplace and craft it. And having a quest that introduces the junctions.  Doing a better job introducing/explaining the modding system wouldn't hurt. Bottom line, I think they need to introduce the basic game systems and provide enough instruction to keep people interested. Otherwise they will continue to have NP attrition issues.

Honestly I completely agree.

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On 2021-08-06 at 6:06 AM, MagPrime said:

Uhhhh, if you honestly believe this then you have done your friend a disservice.  The Codex is easily accessible and goes over how to use the Foundry, you should have directed your friend to check it out.

  Reveal hidden contents

unknown.png

 

You're playing a game, not learning books worth of bs

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6 hours ago, (XBOX)InductiveBag46 said:

You're playing a game, not learning books worth of bs

That's not a very nice thing to say. Personally I think the training videos in the codex are great! Making more of them and making a little quest objective to read them could go a long way.

Visually they are like a 3D Power Point presentation. There are only one or two sentences per page. The presentation provides lots of keywords without explaining everything.

Some players just are not suited for learning how to play a game. I remember my neighbour got a Gameboy Color and the newest Pokemon game at the time, he didn't know what the story was about and couldn't solve the puzzles. Why did this happen? He chose not to read anything, he literally refused to read any in-game text.

I want players to experiment with the game on their own. So I try to be considerate and answer questions, but if they need more than a casual explaination, I'll direct them to the in-game Codex or the Wiki. Does anyone remember Metal Gear Solid for Playstation 1? How many players quickly comprehended the advice to “Plug your Controller into Controller port 2”?

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4 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

Some players just are not suited for learning how to play a game. I remember my neighbour got a Gameboy Color and the newest Pokemon game at the time, he didn't know what the story was about and couldn't solve the puzzles. Why did this happen? He chose not to read anything, he literally refused to read any in-game text.

And that is the main issue with players. There are several that would skip through whatever is provided by the game just so they can start playing. Some people will manage, others will sit there clueless and get nowhere. I've been through it several times with friends, we pick up a new game, I do the tutorial to learn something, read the pop ups etc. while some of my friends esc through it all. Then when we get to the point of playing the game they go "how do I do this, how do I do that, and what this and what that", and my answer is mostly "it was in the tutorial or the journal, go do/read it".

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9 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

 Making more of them and making a little quest objective to read them could go a long way.

 

100% agree, unfortunately most people who play games don't bother with stories/reading/forums, and whatever else. And that's a problem in DEs case because a major profit drive for them is new players. 

If they want to keep the attention of your average normie they need to figure out some way of expanding the tutorial, BEYOND choosing your warframe. Like a mini quest after, driving players towards junctions and new quests, instead of dumping you in an empty ship and doing the shoulder gesture of 'idk, have fun i guess'.

Which is kinda the point of this post. I hate using this word, but 'vets' like me constantly struggle bringing our friends along because warframe turns into a multiple day lecture

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Frankly when i see how overwhelming the new player experience is now (and it goes worse over the years with the addition of new stuff) i'm glad that i started to play actively 7 years ago :3

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46 minutes ago, (XBOX)InductiveBag46 said:

Which is kinda the point of this post. I hate using this word, but 'vets' like me constantly struggle bringing our friends along because warframe turns into a multiple day lecture

Only because people convince themselves they have to know the plot before they open the book, IME.

A new player simply does not have to know all the things many 'vets' think they do to start the game, period.

All you gave to do to get started in this game is point and shoot.

From there, you learn things little by little until you have a handle on one system and move to the next.

This idea a new player has to absorb an Encyclopedia to play the game is totally a strawman.

This whole idea of 'learning is a chore' perpetuated by those in our society who think everyone else should think for them can die in a fire.

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20 hours ago, (XBOX)InductiveBag46 said:

You're playing a game, not learning books worth of bs

Cool.  If that's your approach, stick to mobile games, maybe?  There's a 8bit Warframe app that might be more suitable.

Warframe is a story driven game with tons of small mechanics, it can't be dumbed down if the player is looking to invest years of their time in it.  They have to do some kind of reading & researching to thrive in the game.  If you want to partake in Steel Path or endurance runs, you either learn "books worth of bs" to understand how to play, or you plug in a YouTube video and copy/paste someone elses build & play style, assuming you have the gear ready to go. 

Either way, you have to learn and research to get to one of those two points.

 

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On 2021-08-07 at 4:33 PM, Yamazuki said:

People seem to forget that for the mainstream, which is where money comes from that even allows most games to exist, is for the purpose of having fun/passing time. Unless all these people bashing someone for being confused and overwhelmed want to personally fund games they play, it makes little sense to claim others are "entitled idiots"... I would say bashing the people funding the games you're playing is entitled.

It's also not as if "hand-holding" new players ruins the experience of anyone who already is experienced. Even for someone experienced in games trying Warframe, or want to figure everything on their own, it's as simple as being given the option to ignore new player tips, it's something a large number of games already do. If games need to hold people's hand to get them to play and spend their money, then that's not going to bother me. I just turn these off in every game, even if I'm new to them, and enjoy the funding provided by people that spend more than I do.

The game is missing basic information on what even abilities do. DE themselves have been shown to not even be sure what a Warframe is supposed to do and easily convinced an intended function of a Warframe is an actual "bug". Yet somehow, it's a surprise someone who's never played Warframe could possibly be lost when they first start, when at this point in the game there's an excessive amount of systems, different types of tools, and no real sense of direction unless you navigate through a bunch of vague menus until you find out yourself.

I've had to explain some fairly basic things to people over the years, and the reason was never because they lacked basic brain functions. They just weren't sure what to do, how to get things, how everything in the arsenal and different menus interacted with each other, or what the goal of progression even was. Having to consult the wiki for basic things is an unneeded inconvenience and isn't an excuse to just omit information that should be present in the game. This is also equivalent to just doing homework/busy work, which goes against the "playing games for fun". Having to seek information is something that really should only be for specific things that aren't tied to basic functions, or someone seeking to improve their performance beyond average levels.

Correct!
 

On 2021-08-07 at 4:48 PM, KosmicKerman said:

This is correct. DE did a great job with the NPE getting players started. They now need to add several more structured quests to carry players through the first couple of planets. These could be as simple as having a quest have them purchase a MR0/1 weapon from the marketplace and craft it. And having a quest that introduces the junctions.  Doing a better job introducing/explaining the modding system wouldn't hurt. Bottom line, I think they need to introduce the basic game systems and provide enough instruction to keep people interested. Otherwise they will continue to have NP attrition issues.

Correct!
 

20 hours ago, (XBOX)InductiveBag46 said:

100% agree, unfortunately most people who play games don't bother with stories/reading/forums, and whatever else. And that's a problem in DEs case because a major profit drive for them is new players. 

If they want to keep the attention of your average normie they need to figure out some way of expanding the tutorial, BEYOND choosing your warframe. Like a mini quest after, driving players towards junctions and new quests, instead of dumping you in an empty ship and doing the shoulder gesture of 'idk, have fun i guess'.

Which is kinda the point of this post. I hate using this word, but 'vets' like me constantly struggle bringing our friends along because warframe turns into a multiple day lecture

Correct!

All correct.

Edited by (PSN)DoctorWho_90250
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On 2021-08-06 at 1:06 AM, MagPrime said:

Uhhhh, if you honestly believe this then you have done your friend a disservice.  The Codex is easily accessible and goes over how to use the Foundry, you should have directed your friend to check it out.

  Reveal hidden contents

unknown.png

The Junctions are self explanatory, if you bother to read what's there.  As to how to access them, the missions unlock in a forward progression that forces you to them.

  Reveal hidden contents

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If you take the time to read what's in the Codex and the Junction descriptions, this really isn't that much of an issue and doesn't require hand holding. 

I still remember my new player experience.  I had no idea that you could just buy blueprints from the market (this was back in 2017, when the market page was even worse than it is now) and craft gear.  All I saw was plat prices listed and didn't want to click on any of it.  I had no idea how easy it was to craft stuff and ended up buying two different weapons when the game gave me market coupons.  The game didn't open up for me until looked to see if the game had a decent wiki because nothing was or is explained in-game.  Hand holding from a vet or from the wiki is absolutely necessary for new players because the game, even the codex, does a really poor job of explaining stuff.  This has been an ongoing discussion in the community for a long time, so for you to act surprised, and like OP is coming out of left field with this is pretty strange.

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On 2021-08-07 at 7:33 PM, Yamazuki said:

DE themselves have been shown to not even be sure what a Warframe is supposed to do and easily convinced an intended function of a Warframe is an actual "bug".

Just want to point something out.  I remember watching the dev stream where they were talking about expanding the ability descriptions and they mentioned that Nova's Null Star added 5% DR per orb, but wasn't in the description and every dev but one was totally surprised.  It has been on the wiki forever though.  The wiki has every piece of information about the abilities and the game in general, while the game barely tells you anything.  Any information that is in the game is hidden behind several layers of screens and hover text so most players won't see it.  Your average Frost player doesn't even know how to pop the bubble manually, much less that the bubble does scaling true damage upon enemy eject.  On the wiki.  Hidden in the game, if it's there at all.

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2 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

I still remember my new player experience.  I had no idea that you could just buy blueprints from the market (this was back in 2017, when the market page was even worse than it is now) and craft gear.  All I saw was plat prices listed and didn't want to click on any of it.  I had no idea how easy it was to craft stuff and ended up buying two different weapons when the game gave me market coupons.  The game didn't open up for me until looked to see if the game had a decent wiki because nothing was or is explained in-game.  Hand holding from a vet or from the wiki is absolutely necessary for new players because the game, even the codex, does a really poor job of explaining stuff.  This has been an ongoing discussion in the community for a long time, so for you to act surprised, and like OP is coming out of left field with this is pretty strange.

I don't know you're confusing surprise with confusion. 

The way the post is worded gives the impression there is no information in the game, at all, anywhere, when there is a base foundation of things in the Codex.  The specific examples provided of not knowing how the Foundry works, there is a tutorial and explanation on it in the Codex. 

At no point did I say this is a comprehensive source or that it's flawless, just that there is information in the game pertaining to specific complaints that OP is making and that they didn't help their friends by not showing them where anything is.   

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As an account dedicated to the NPE and tutoring new players, I have something to say. DE has made improvements, such as requiring you to visit the codex for the Mars junction, requiring you to kill a Prosecutor for the Jupiter junction, and these are very useful additions but they do not solve the underlying issues new players suffer from during normal progression.

Through the first ~50 hours of the game, you're going to hurt for mods and endo. Mods will be limited to dark sector farming (steel fiber, elemental melee mods, etc.) which newbies won't know anything about and drop so infrequently during any of the nodes leading junction-to-junction that you can still be stuck with the flawed versions by Jupiter. This is in addition to the Stalker appearances.

The "just Google it" attitude is strange. People are under the assumption that new players will know what Nightwave or transmutation are. The codex details this a bit, while the wiki's tough reading for new players as it drops terms on them like it's college. This leads to newbies implicitly thinking that the game will teach them about this stuff as they go on, which it only kind of does, but as alluded to it leaves a lot out.

Veterans' apathy towards new players is astounding. 'Kids these days are so entitled' arguments aren't going to convince anyone (makes me think it's a cope) and unless you have a post-2019 alt account dedicated to experiencing the game how a newbie would, you're whining about how entitled new players are while avoiding something that might shift your preconceptions on the subject. It's a very strange attitude.

The idea that new players should stick with Excalibur until they've cleared the map also needs to go. Sure, it's encouraged by design - which is bad - but are you in good faith really asking new players to stick with one single frame for 100 hours when the best frames have 4 abilities total and Excali has 1.5? I know if the advice I was given was "JuSt PrOgReSS MoRE" I'd be done with Warframe after Jupiter. "It gets good after 100 hours" is a terrible argument.

There are other issues, like how the codex doesn't tell you about the unique mechanics behind the skills. It's useful to know some of what a skill does, but detailed information on skills is relegated to the wiki which is kind of strange given we're talking about in-game interactions between skills. Passives aren't worded informatively enough, as "faster knockdown recovery" is only marginally useful info. The Stalker will one-shot any non-Inaros frame, and the only solution is to one-shot him before he one-shots you. These dynamics give a really bad initial impression.

Edited by Orrion_the_Kitsune
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8 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Considering this is the account of an MR16 (Kitsune-Orrion) trying the newbie progression out and finding many things to complain about, while also serving as a tutor for actual new players I come in contact with, I may have the hottest takes of all since I'm in the process of progressing through and unlocking planets with MR2 gear. DE has made improvements, such as requiring you to visit the codex to progress through a junction, requiring you to kill enemies with weaknesses and immunity mechanics to progress through a junction, etc. and that's generally a welcome improvement over "go ham, hope you know what to do!" It's also pretty easy to click on the codex and then click "Enemies" and be immediately greeted with drop tables, which are intuitive enough to be able to be picked up immediately.

The first and biggest issue is the availability of resources, full-stop. Through the first ~25-50 hours of the game, you're going to be hurting for mods and endo unless you request people to taxi you for free farm, which a new player won't know how to do. The same goes for affinity and ranks, but less so because of the buffs to stealth kill affinity. Mods will often be limited to dark sector farming (steel fiber, elemental melee mods, etc.) which otherwise drop so infrequently during any of the nodes leading junction-to-junction that you can still be stuck with the flawed versions by Jupiter, and all the while you'll have a Stalker with 300-900/tick, guaranteed slash procs on his Dread appearing ever-so-often to try and kill you up to five times (or more) on missions that are already getting progressively more difficult because you're still stuck with S#&$ty mods and no endo. This dynamic is really good at driving you away, because it's exactly how I feel when I play mobile gacha games: barely teetering on the edge of a frustrating experience, lacking necessary resources and upgrades to let the auto-battle progress.

Someone silly might say "Ah, well, Warframe is SKILL-BASED unlike THOSE games" but you do not need any degree of skill to fill out the map chart. You just don't. 'Gitting gud' at Warframe mostly consists of applying the correct mods to the correct weapons. You need to know what to do, is it. You don't need to be good at rolling, or good at aiming, you need to be good at remembering. The problem here is not that DE is turning it into a mobile game or something, because the ways of farming the mods are already there: they're called dark sector missions. The question is 'How is a new player going to know about these?' They won't, and the codex tells you very little about farming them for/or endo. Same goes for the wiki, though it'll only tell you about the methods you can't use to farm mods/endo. The new players have to deal with a convenient cash shop, resource scarcity and being insta-killed by the Stalker's 750+ bleed proc while also knowing jack about the game, and with that in mind it becomes pretty easy to see why a lot of people leave before realizing it's not actually a PC version of a mobile gacha game.

Peoples' apathy towards helping new players out, leaving them to suffer, are to blame too. It's pretty obvious that veteran players being apathetic to new players isn't doing so hot for our favorite grinding game, and yet I see people here suggesting that we continue to do this as if it's working. Well, I'm sorry to say, but no matter how much a newbie might suffer if they're high-rank but lacking knowledge, they're going to suffer a lot more if they can't farm for something they want/feel comfortable using. Don't you #*!%ing dare tell me to just unlock more planets, either; Excalibur's 4 gets really #*!%ing boring after a while and if after 5 planets I heard "JuSt UnLoCk MoRe PlAnEtS" I would be done with this game on the spot for the reasons above in addition to boredom.

There are other more minor issues, like how the codex doesn't actually tell you about the unique mechanics behind the skills. Sure, it details the damage and CC, but does it detail how it interacts with other skills? Nope. Does "You get up faster when knocked down" sound like an informative passive? Kinda? It's sure not telling you what it really does though, which is make you get up twice as fast. These are things the wiki tells you, that the codex does not, and yet these can heavily influence how you play. Of course, new players who are directed to the codex will have no idea how to interpret some of the info, double for the wiki. The only reason vets say "Just Wiki it" is because they all have the necessary prerequisite info to interpret the wiki properly, while new players won't know what "dark sector" or "archwing" is.

I'm of course going to keep updating my experience with the NPE as I move forward. So far I rate it 4/10 where it was a 2/10 before. Like, literally, I hate the NPE so much I'm dedicating my heart and mind to finding out why it sucks so bad so it can be improved. For the most part, the responses look like veterans finding a reason to complain about 'kids these days' without ever applying the effort they supposedly want someone else to. I'm sure that's because if they grew some stones and made a new account, tried it out for a while, they might have their preconceptions challenged... and they don't want that. It's uncomfortable.

This sounds cool, and your effort is commendable 👍. It's definitely inspiring me to move my own attempt higher in my priority list.

Your description of hurting for resources reminds me of my own experiences where I was waiting on Extractors, and has compelled me to reconsider some things that I had forgotten about (like Extractors). I would partially disagree with your statement that you don't need to be good at rolling or aiming, since moving well and aiming well can help a lot with survivability, but it's also undeniable that there's a memory aspect to combat.

🤔 Your description of using Excalibur constantly also makes me reconsider how I'd approach aquisition of new Warframes; I was thinking Dojo, since I'd be inviting new players I'd want on-boarded to join my dojo. But there's definitely also the fact that not everyone will be joining a Dojo, so it's like "Well, how do I get something else beyond this starting Warframe?".

Cool cool, looking forward to your updates

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20 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

This sounds cool, and your effort is commendable 👍. It's definitely inspiring me to move my own attempt higher in my priority list.

Your description of hurting for resources reminds me of my own experiences where I was waiting on Extractors, and has compelled me to reconsider some things that I had forgotten about (like Extractors). I would partially disagree with your statement that you don't need to be good at rolling or aiming, since moving well and aiming well can help a lot with survivability, but it's also undeniable that there's a memory aspect to combat.

🤔 Your description of using Excalibur constantly also makes me reconsider how I'd approach aquisition of new Warframes; I was thinking Dojo, since I'd be inviting new players I'd want on-boarded to join my dojo. But there's definitely also the fact that not everyone will be joining a Dojo, so it's like "Well, how do I get something else beyond this starting Warframe?".

Cool cool, looking forward to your updates

I actually appreciate your camaraderie.

The reason I say "You don't need to be good at rolling and aiming" is because it's meant purely literally. Being good at the game will make things faster and more efficient, but it's not necessary to progress and trying to make it so would make later rail specter encounters super cheesy because you'd either one-shot them or be one-shot. At least Stalker spawns are random, so being forced to deal with that level of cheese every planet would kill new players' drive.

That's one of the things about the NPE: the best and one of the only methods of leveling your frame reliably is found on Sedna, one of the ending planets, and for a new player to switch frames they'd need to do two difficult things: find the frame, and level the frame, both of which can be a challenge and one of which (at minimum) is tedious. This is kind of problematic.

I cannot stress enough that the NPE is miles better than it was when my first account went through all of it, but 'miles better than a foot in the ass' isn't high praise. More needs to be done, and I'm not averse to missions I'll never touch again being changed to make newbies' lives easier. Since SP exists, if veterans are so insistent on keeping the current mission structure, it can be relegated to SP which is where the cool kids farm anyway.

Edited by Orrion_the_Kitsune
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