How To Farm Liches More Effectively

[FrostDragoon]

For the purposes of this mini-guide, I'm going to skip the pregenitor state and assume you already have a lich with the desired weapon. Hopefully they fix the issues with this part in the future.

We will always be using the new Oull requiem mod (I'll be referring to them as "runes" since it's easier for my ancient Diablo 2 mind to think of them as rune words).

From a fresh start and no murmers yet, here's how the process goes.

1. Place the Oull in the 3rd slot. Place two random ones in the 1st and 2nd slots.

2. Run medium length missions for your initial murmer farm. This means Mobile Defense, Survival, Sabotage, and maybe Spy. Save your Exterminates and Captures for later. Namely, you want to save these for when your murmer progress is nearly full, since people tend to rush these so fast that very few murmers are spawned/gained. Important note: If your lich spawns before you have enough murmers to know at least one rune, do not stab it yet.

3. Upon revealing your first rune, equip it into the 1st slot. Your goal is to get a stab in ASAP. Hopefully by now you have built enough rage meter to spawn your lich.

If you stab your lich and the 1st rune in the 1st slot is correct (white symbol), congratulations. You now have a 50% that your next rune will be in the correct slot.

If the stab reveals the 1st known rune is not in the correct slot (red symbol), move your Oull rune to the 1st slot and the known rune to the 2nd slot. Your next stab will inform you whether this rune is in the correct slot or not, even if you don't yet know your 2nd rune's identity.

4. Farm your 2nd rune's identity. Do not stab your lich again until you know the identity of rune 2. Then equip them in the proper order according to the outline above. Try to get another stab in ASAP.

The logic for the next sequence will be the same.

 

I have included a visual guide of the same thing in case this description doesn't quite make sense.

 

Basically, with this method, you should usually get your lich within 3 stabs, maybe 4 if you want to roll the dice before you learn the identity of your 2nd rune. If you run out of Oull runes (somehow), just buy one from somebody. Farming the 3rd identity takes roughly about as long as the 1st and 2nd ones combined, especially for the kuva liches. It's significantly faster to just always run an Oull in your setup. In my experience, it cuts the farm down by about 50%. Sometimes you can get lucky and send your lich to the galleon on your 1st or 2nd stab too.

 

Anyway, hope this is helpful to some of you who are frustrated with this pointlessly convoluted mess of a lich system. Sorry in advance to people out there who will have people not stabbing their liches in your squad. It's just the optimal way to do it these days.

  

16 hours ago, (PSN)Lollybomb said:

Your method omits the case of the second requiem ending up in the first slot.  Assuming equal distribution, that's a 1/3 chance you're going to be pushed to a 4th stab even with your method.  Ultimately though, Oull or not, if you're only stabbing when you know new information, you should never need more than 4 stabs.

Thanks for pointing this out. Should help anyone who gets that last unlucky outcome.

  

3 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said:

>ctrl+f : hound
>0/0

The most important tip for Sisters : DO NOT down her before killing her hound. 

If a sister is downed the extra hound she came with will explode if still alive and you and your team will get no extra murmur from stabbing it.

If you used Oull or guessed the right mod after the stab wait a few seconds. She will summon another hound and you will get extra murmur for stabbing it!

Thanks for pointing this out. I'm sure many people will appreciate it.

[Kaotyke]

"Convoluted"?

Its just:

1) Do missions and Stab Thralls

2) Lich appears

• Stab:
  • Wrong Requiem? Head to next planet. Repeat steps 1-2.
  • Right Requiem? Stab again.
    • Wrong Requiem? Head to next planet. Repeat steps 1-2.
    • Right Requiem? Stab again.
      • Wrong Requiem? Head to next planet; Repeats steps 1-2.
      • Right Requiem? Jackpot. Head to Railjack Saturn and, in the words of Tali Zora: "Kila beech".

3) Down them 3 times? Repeat 1>2 or 1 and 3. You will eventually do 2.

What you just made is what is complicated. Equip the Requiems, stab the Lich, find the right order, kill them. The End.

[(PSN)Lollybomb]

Your method omits the case of the second requiem ending up in the first slot.  Assuming equal distribution, that's a 1/3 chance you're going to be pushed to a 4th stab even with your method.  Ultimately though, Oull or not, if you're only stabbing when you know new information, you should never need more than 4 stabs.

[FrostDragoon]

27 minutes ago, (PSN)Lollybomb said:

Your method omits the case of the second requiem ending up in the first slot.  Assuming equal distribution, that's a 1/3 chance you're going to be pushed to a 4th stab even with your method.  Ultimately though, Oull or not, if you're only stabbing when you know new information, you should never need more than 4 stabs.

Fair, but I was sort of assuming players could piece together that last step on their own. The process I described should massively simplify it in most cases. I included it in the OP anyway, since it could be useful info.

[FrostDragoon]

Wrong edit.

[GwinKyblood]

well, put a randon podcast or netflix series 
and spam missions and abuse of oull mod
I guarantee it will be faster than your method

 

 

 

 

 

 

[(PSN)Quantaminum]

How do you get Oull?

I got one when I stabbed my lich, but I'm running out of charges and no sign of another Oull.

[BansheePrime]

14 minutes ago, (PSN)Quantaminum said:

How do you get Oull?

I got one when I stabbed my lich, but I'm running out of charges and no sign of another Oull.

Chance of an Oull or a Lich taunt item dropping when you get the combo correct and (I think) once more when you beat them in the railjack mission.

[FrostDragoon]

51 minutes ago, GwinKyblood said:

well, put a randon podcast or netflix series 
and spam missions and abuse of oull mod
I guarantee it will be faster than your method

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm guessing you didn't even read it.

[CubicleNinja]

I like starting out with Oull in the first slot.  It makes sure you'll always get a second dog from the Sisters to get extra murmurs to push things along.

They start with 1 dog (which they self-destruct if you down the sister before taking out the dog).

They summon a dog when they stand up after a successful requiem mod stab (as long as you don't immediately down them again).

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

Remember 4 defiled can make an oull (chance of making)

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

Important note: If your lich spawns before you have enough murmers to know at least one rune, do not stab it yet.

3. Upon revealing your first rune, equip it into the 1st slot. Your goal is to get a stab in ASAP. Hopefully by now you have built enough rage meter to spawn your lich.

2 hours ago, (PSN)Lollybomb said:

Ultimately though, Oull or not, if you're only stabbing when you know new information, you should never need more than 4 stabs.

Most of this information is pretty basic, other than "spend Oull, you'll statistically get enough to use every time". The controversy is between people who Always Stab, and people like me who insist on waiting until you have at least One Unveiled before stabbing. That's when you get people coming to the forums making thread after thread about "why aren't these leeches stabbing their liches?!?!" Because my Requiems aren't Unveiled yet, that's why.

[FrostDragoon]

41 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Most of this information is pretty basic, other than "spend Oull, you'll statistically get enough to use every time". The controversy is between people who Always Stab, and people like me who insist on waiting until you have at least One Unveiled before stabbing. That's when you get people coming to the forums making thread after thread about "why aren't these leeches stabbing their liches?!?!" Because my Requiems aren't Unveiled yet, that's why.

I agree the info seems basic when you're familiar with how it works, but it wasn't so clear when I first started doing liches, and it became quite a lot simpler with the Sisters update bring us the Oull mod. Largely, I made this thread to help people who weren't sure what to do find an easier way as well as to help dispel this controversy. If players who are frustrated with people not stabbing understand why this is happening, they can turn that frustration away from other players (where it generally manifests as toxicity) and toward feedback/pressure to get DE to do something about it (hopefully).

[T-Shark69]

>ctrl+f : hound
>0/0

The most important tip for Sisters : DO NOT down her before killing her hound. 

If a sister is downed the extra hound she came with will explode if still alive and you and your team will get no extra murmur from stabbing it.

If you used Oull or guessed the right mod after the stab wait a few seconds. She will summon another hound and you will get extra murmur for stabbing it!
 

16 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

What you just made is what is complicated. Equip the Requiems, stab the Lich, find the right order, kill them. The End.

What you made is the wrong way to do it now that Oull is part of the equation.

[FrostDragoon]

2 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said:

>ctrl+f : hound
>0/0

The most important tip for Sisters : DO NOT down her before killing her hound. 

If a sister is downed the extra hound she came with will explode if still alive and you and your team will get no extra murmur from stabbing it.

If you used Oull or guessed the right mod after the stab wait a few seconds. She will summon another hound and you will get extra murmur for stabbing it!
 

What you made is the wrong way to do it now that Oull is part of the equation.

Good tip. If I can still edit the OP, I'll include it.

[Soy77]

As helpful and with good intentions this thread was made, this is not "how to farm your liches more effectively".

This is how to farm your liches with some godam common sense.

Which sadly something that the warframe community is indeed lacking.

 

All in all i appreciate the thread. And I'm sorry that some people need this.

[Cyloss]

Correct me if im wrong but i always use Oull first,

i was under the impression that the Lich/Sister would spawn an additional Thrall/Hound every stab

[VoreoTheDragon]

Shouldn't you always stab so others liches can spawn though...?

[T-Shark69]

12 minutes ago, VoreoTheDragon said:

Shouldn't you always stab so others liches can spawn though...?

You can down you lich 3 times and itll go away. Others can spawn after that.

[VoreoTheDragon]

5 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said:

You can down you lich 3 times and itll go away. Others can spawn after that.

ah always just jabbed it so everyone got the murmur tick

[ReddyDisco]

What's the problem with stabbing the sister/lich when they spawn before you know your requiem, it just jumps to a new planet and you get more missions to do and higher lvl enemies, isn't that a win win?

[MqToasty]

1 hour ago, VoreoTheDragon said:

Shouldn't you always stab so others liches can spawn though...?

Depends on what others do in the servers you play in, actually.  Having had some long discussions with people in the "only stab if it benefits me" camp, if (almost) everyone always stabs in your server, everyone will get ~30% faster murmur progression than if everyone only stabbed if it benefits them.  So if it looks like everyone always stabs in your server, you should probably stab as well to return the favor.  If it looks like people are only stabbing around 2/3 of the time (about 1/3 of the liches go unstabbed), then you should not be the sucker to always stab when they are not returning the favor.  Being lucky to play in a mostly always-stab server myself, I always stab as well.

Now as for the strategy provided by OP, I am in the camp that always front-loads my Oull.  That is, I start with:

X | ? | ?

... then progress to:

X | 1? | ?

... and only to this if the previous was wrong (and I know 1? does not go in position 2):

1? | X | ?

... the reasoning others have already detailed so I will not repeat them again.  Additionally, I stop using Oull once I reveal 2 Words.  I do this because Oull is free to use until you guess correctly with it.  Being a cheapskate, I want Oull do help me gather murmurs and guess positions, but also want to save them as much as possible.  I probably should not worry anymore as I am sitting on a pile of them, but old habits die hard so...

[T-Shark69]

1 hour ago, ReddyDisco said:

What's the problem with stabbing the sister/lich when they spawn before you know your requiem, it just jumps to a new planet and you get more missions to do and higher lvl enemies, isn't that a win win?

 

44 minutes ago, MqToasty said:

Depends on what others do in the servers you play in, actually.  Having had some long discussions with people in the "only stab if it benefits me" camp, if (almost) everyone always stabs in your server, everyone will get ~30% faster murmur progression than if everyone only stabbed if it benefits them.  So if it looks like everyone always stabs in your server, you should probably stab as well to return the favor.  If it looks like people are only stabbing around 2/3 of the time (about 1/3 of the liches go unstabbed), then you should not be the sucker to always stab when they are not returning the favor.  Being lucky to play in a mostly always-stab server myself, I always stab as well.

Theres a thread for that : 

 

[ReddyDisco]

1 hour ago, T-Shark69 said:

 

Theres a thread for that : 

 

yea decided not to step into that place, i like to be far away from toxicity 

[Kaotyke]

8 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

What you made is the wrong way to do it now that Oull is part of the equation.

If it was the wrong way to do it I wouldn't be able to kill the Lich/Sister.

Oull is just to make things faster, but that was not my argument, was it? It was about OP calling it convoluted.