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Minimal effort buffs can go a long way. DE, pls try to do more of them. Example: Hydroid.


Perfectly_Framed_Waifu
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When it comes to some frames (like Yareli), adjusting a number or adding a new one to an ability won't be enough to fix them. On others, a little bit can go a long way. Imagine if the armor reduction on Frost's Avalanche got bumped up from 40% to 50%. That'd decrease the amount of Strength he needs to run for full reduction from 250% to 200%. I'm not saying Frost is the frame most in need of such a buff, but it's an easy example.

Today, I invigorated my Hydroid with 1000 Armor (and 100% Duration). Took him to a Steel Path Survival test run, had a blast. For once, I was tanky and had a fun gameplay setup as Hydroid. I'd bowl enemies down with his Tidal Surge, grouping them up for easy killing, while my Tentacle Swarm acted as a source of health regen thanks to an infused Gloom. Unfortunately, this fun will only last me 7 days, but some rather effortless Hydroid buffs could make this a reality for more players.

Minimal effort buff:
Tentacle Swarm: Add an unmoddable 5% Lifesteal.
This gives Hydroid better sustainability in battle.

Low effort buff:
Tidal Surge: Add 50 (x Strenght) flat Armor per enemy hit for XX (x Duration) seconds, max 1000 Armor (unmoddable). (Compare with Rhino's Ironclad Charge.)
This makes Hydroid sufficiently tanky.

Relatively low effort buffs:
Tidal Surge: Increase the travel speed while making it cancellable by jumping.
Quality of Life mobility buff.

I know DE's said they're not planning any reworks, and Hydroid is certainly a frame the community thinks needs one, but in the meantime, little stuff like this can go a long, long way, and I can't imagine it would take many work hours to implement changes like these once or twice per month, for Hydroid or other frames.

 

tl;dr: DE pls do small, easy buffs once in a while.

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Other examples of low effort buffs that would go a long way:
(Note that this is just an example list, not a exhaustive list.)

Minimal effort:
Banshee: Silence's stun duration increased and/or modified by Ability Duration.
Gives her a slight bump in survivability through increased player reaction time.

Equinox: Duality's clone duration increased from 10 seconds to 20+ seconds.
The clone's lifestime is way too short compared to other summons, like Wukong's Twin or Nyx's Mind Control.

Inaros: Desiccation's Curse's sand shadow duration increased to 20 seconds, and affected by Ability Duration. Summon chance increased from 75% to 100%.
There is already a hard limit of max 3 sand shadows, so its other limitations only makes the augment inconsistent and less fun to use.

Xaku: Xata's Whisper damage bonus increased from 26% to 72% when active.
Currently, Xata's Whisper gives Xaku a smaller damage bonus than an infused Roar (30% bonus). Roar also synergizes with Grasp of Lohk, boosting its damage (another possible buff for X'sW). This buff would put it more in line with other damage buffs, like Toxic Lash (30%/60% gun/melee dmg) or augments like Freeze Force (100% weapon dmg). 

Low effort:
Mag: Pull's Energy Orb drop chance on kill changed from kills by the ability itself to a short Duration-based debuff on affected enemies.
This element of Mag's Pull quickly ceases to be as increasing enemy level makes it all but impossible to set up for Pull kills. Better then to make it a debuff for any kills.

Relatively low effort:
Frost: Freeze's AoE affected by Range mods, and freezes all enemies within its AoE rather than just inflicting Cold status on them.
The effect of this ability is very comparable to Night Equinox's Rest, which sleeps all enemies in an area, only much weaker due to its limitations. The changes above would fix that.

Grendel: Pulverize castable on empty stomach. Energy drain on empty stomach decreased to 2.5/second. Damage decreased by 75% on empty stomach.
QoL change. Sometimes, it's just fun to ball around.

Nyx: Absorb's weapon damage bonus duration removed. In addition, Absorb also gives a HP buffer similar to Iron Skin or Warding Halo, based on the absorbed damage, that lasts until broken. When it does, the weapon damage bonus also ends. Damage converted to HP buffer and weapon damage bonus balanced as needed.
The short weapon damage bonus makes it easily overlooked, and Mind Control and Chaos alone aren't enough to consistently protecting Nyx, making people rely heavily on Chaos' augment. A HP buffer would allow Nyx some extra breathing room outside of her immortality mode.

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I don't think more Band-Aid fixes would be very helpful. I would rather DE sat down and thought about why a single frame is underperforming and tackle their overall kit. Instead of more minimal buffs, we should be asking for more Overhauls and Reworks.

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3 minutes ago, Raqiya said:

I don't think more Band-Aid fixes would be very helpful. I would rather DE sat down and thought about why a single frame is underperforming and tackle their overall kit. Instead of more minimal buffs, we should be asking for more Overhauls and Reworks.

I'd rather have a Band-Aid until a frame can get properly fixed, for any frame. Still, there are some frames that would be in a good position if they just got that tiny little buff. Mag's a good example. Girl's in a generally good spot now that shield gating is a thing. It's just that her energy generation ability doesn't generate energy once you pass Jupiter or something.

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2 minutes ago, Raqiya said:

I don't think more Band-Aid fixes would be very helpful. I would rather DE sat down and thought about why a single frame is underperforming and tackle their overall kit. Instead of more minimal buffs, we should be asking for more Overhauls and Reworks.

As much as I would love more reworks, DE doesn't seem too keen on that.  Hence, I think, why this thread exists.  A small change here and there is more realistic and sensitive to developer resources.  The community can be at least somewhat pleased as an older, weaker frame gets a little polish and love.

 

My suggestions (take these with a grain of salt as I do not know how complicated some of them would be to pull off):

 

Ash: Inflicting a slash proc on an enemy marks them for Bladestorm.

Chroma: Kills add a few seconds to active buffs from Elemental Ward and Vex Armor.

Frost: Give Ice Wave a chance to proc multiple physical status procs based on ability strength.

Grendel: Add 5-10 seconds to current Nourish buff durations whenever you cast Regurgitate.

Ivara: Cut Navigator cost (over time) in half.

Loki: Decoy needs something.  More life?  Maybe radiation/magnetic/blast procs on its attacks?  Scale with ability strength as needed.

Mesa: Firing off a Ballistic Battery shot refreshes the durations of Shooting Gallery and Shatter Shield.

Nekros: Shadows of the Dead do not block allied projectiles/shots (this one might be complicated to do).

Nyx: Have Mind Controlled units deal % based damage to enemies based on fire rate.

Titania: Active Tribute buffs reverse their durations (gaining added time each second) while a Lantern is in effect.

Trinity: Killing the target of Well of Life refreshes the durations of Link and Blessing.

 

 

You may have noticed a trend.  I'm kind of tired of egg-timer buffs and wish we had more ways to refresh them.

 

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17 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

As much as I would love more reworks, DE doesn't seem too keen on that.  Hence, I think, why this thread exists.  A small change here and there is more realistic and sensitive to developer resources.  The community can be at least somewhat pleased as an older, weaker frame gets a little polish and love.

My sentiments exactly. Besides, pretty much every other game does minute, simple balance changes once in a while, so it's just strange that Warframe rarely seems to do so. And with them working on New War, then probably Duviri soon after that, I imagine we ain't gonna see any larger reworks for a while. Some balance changes can be executed over a coffee break, and I'll happily take those in the meantime. 

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the game level advances to harder enemies but limited mods slots blocks us from fixing all these obsolete frames.

we have few slots so correcting an obsolete frame or weapon through slots becomes difficult as it depends on a new mod and this new mod depends on a lot of creativity not to positively affect a dominant equipment.

i imagine mod stacking, slots with some infusion system unlocked as we increase account levels. that way the DE can create infinite mods similar to the current ones.

we cannot order more common slots as there will be no progression in accessible slots and mods. we cannot ask for a skill tree as this distances itself from the mod system and makes warframe similar to most rpgs. I don't think it's fair to ask for a buff for a few months later the same equipment is nerfed.

I didn't feel any progression but I did an excalibur with 200% power strength and 1000 health. I can only remember that it was wonderful.

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I like a lot of these ideas.  Although I think in many cases DE could go even simpler...with stat buffs.  There a bunch of abilities that would be so much better with some more range or duration or faster animation speed or circa-2021 damage.    Do that on frames that seemingly need an extra mod slot or two to fit everything demanded by their kits--Harrow and Garuda come to mind--and these small tweaks could make these frames a lot more forgiving.

Simple stat adjustments can't save everything--Decoy or Sound Quake, for example--but they could do a ton of good.

10 hours ago, Raqiya said:

I don't think more Band-Aid fixes would be very helpful. I would rather DE sat down and thought about why a single frame is underperforming and tackle their overall kit.

I'm sure that's the way many of  us feel.    But  @[DE]Pablo himself at the Tennocon dev Q&A threw cold water on the idea and expressed skepticism about how worthwhile these efforts are when there is so much else demanding their time*.  So...maybe this is what we're left with? 

*Pablo, if you read this, obviously we don't have your data, but it seems like  there's some strong evidence of significant increases in frame usage after reworks, comparing the data we do have from 2018 and 2020.

 

 * * *

Although, since we're on the subject of lowish effort frame tweaks, I'll just depress everybody by bringing this up again:

 

Quote

 

On 2020-11-19 at 3:39 PM, [DE]Megan said:

WARFRAME ABILITY CHANGES:

The first group in our “touch all Warframes” list! We aim to give each Warframe a little quality of life touch up and not laser focus on one Warframe at a time.

 

Seemingly an abandoned initiative  (Prove me wrong, DE, I won't mind at all. 😉)

 

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Seemingly an abandoned initiative  (Prove me wrong, DE, I won't mind at all. 😉)

DE promises something and doesn't deliver it until it's 2 years too late, or never, what else is new 😩

Forreal though where's Duviri Paradox?

Forreal forreal on the topic of this thread though, it'd be so nice to see DE just give some old Warframe abilities some of the modern ability's QoL improvements. I still want to see Hydroid's Tidal Surge and Rhino's Rhino Charge handle like Mach Rush or Vial Rush. I'd like to be able to deal damage to enemies being flailed about by the Tentacles by simply shooting at their bases and see unoccupied tentacles swishing across the floor to the nearest enemy (even at a super slow pace!) like Zephyr's Tornados do. I'd like to see Tempest Barrage do the kinda damage that Vauban's Fletchete Orbs do. And I'd like to see Undertow handle like a slower, channeled ground-bound version of Wukong's Cloud Walker, instead of being so slow and expensive that it's practically immobile and a useless energy sink, and I'd like for it to bring captured enemies with it.

DE needs to half-way classify the different abilities (at their BASELINES, not modded/augmented) in the game (is it primarily [and secondarily and fringe] a DPS, CC, Survivability, Mobility, or other Utility), and then they need to compare them things apples-to-apples (with consideration that some frames have ridiculous Stats and some frames have ridiculously good cornerstone abilities, imo, like Chakram or Spore or Reservoirs) and make sure that things are consistently worth the energy it costs to cast an ability, and that there will be reasonably common situations in which to use given abilities compared to alternatives.

I would dream of the day that DE had their game halfway balanced enough that you might choose a weaker Ability Infusion just because it costs way less, because they made an ability weak and cheap and ineffective to balance against an overwhelmingly effective ultimate or cornerstone ability. And some of you in this thread have really simple numbers-based tweaks that could make the difference on some of these Warframes.

I saw one of ya mention how horrifically backed into a corner DE is with things either being weak everywhere, or OP in the early starchart and weak in the later/post star-chart content, or OP everywhere. I feel like half of that problem is how much more Weapon damage scales via modding than most Warframe abilities can, and the answer (imo) would theoretically be to decouple the different weapon modding solutions from affecting each other, and only scaling off of the base weapon's damage, so that modding is additive/multiplicative (DPS = Base * #ofDPSmods) instead of multiplicative/exponential (DPS = Base X 2#ofDPSmods) where each of the (meta) DPS mods (up to or more than) doubles the DPS that the previous mods did. Once Melee and Guns aren't reaching for millions of damage per swing/pellet, they could lower enemy's EHP and then you'd see Warframe ability balancing would be far simpler, as instead of dealing with nearly as much exponential enemy health bloat, DE could tweak/redesign abilities for a far narrower range of enemy Health ranges. Half or more of DE's Warframe Abilities don't scale like, at all, DPS-wise, so this would fix them all a long ways, indirectly.

I guess that'd be another post that I've already posted before though 😅

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11 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Although, since we're on the subject of lowish effort frame tweaks, I'll just depress everybody by bringing this up again:

I'mma start reminding DE of that one in hotfix threads, coupled with some easily implemented changes. My Yareli comment on the latest hotfix is currently sitting at more than double the upvotes of the hotfix post itself, so even if DE hasn't seen that, I imagine there will be others to carry that torch.

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I'd just like to see some, what I believe, to be sensible adjustments to Excalibur.

Slash Dash- targeting cone width scales with length as ability range is changed by mods. Dash Speed affected by Casting speed.

Radial Blind- have synergy with Slash Dash and Radial Javelin by adding a percentage of Stealth Damage multiplier to stunned enemies on respective ability cast affected by power strength.Cast with EB active inflicts slow for 5s within range.

Radial Javelin- Number of Javelins increases with Ability Strength. Cast with Exalted Blade Active inflicts EB's dominant damage type as a status effect. 

Exalted Blade- No changes needed.

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  • 11 months later...
On 2021-08-07 at 8:33 PM, Tiltskillet said:

 But  @[DE]Pablo himself at the Tennocon dev Q&A threw cold water on the idea and expressed skepticism about how worthwhile these efforts are when there is so much else demanding their time

That's a refrain we hear over and over again, and it's not a good one.

"Generally you gotta, the way I think about it is, when you're doing something, you're also not doing something else, so that's kind of the balance we have to think [about]. So even though I do think going back and touching some of those older Warframes would make the game better, at the same time, that means that if we're working on that, we're not working on new stuff, so, uh, it's a hard balance there. "

There is a simple solution to this: HIRE MORE STAFF

If you are only capable of working on new stuff, and ALWAYS too time-crunched to fix old problems...something is wrong. And I think it's the amount of assistance you have available. If your team is not big enough to work on everything that needs it, get a bigger team.

Every time we get a response about old issues like this, it's always the same answer - not enough time. Not enough manpower.

That is something you can fix, DE.

 

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