A Debate - What is Warframe? And where will it go?

[Hypernaut1]

It's amazing how many people truly believe the devs have no idea or plan for what they want to do with the game. As if they just stumbled upon a successful game. 

There was a time when they shared their long term plans with us, but players weren't able to handle that. Now dev streams have become marketing for soon to be released content instead of a look into everything they're working on. RJ wasnt random, Steve was working on that for years before it was released. Just because we don't know what they're doing, doesn't mean that the Devs don't know what they're doing. 

For all this talk about Warframe going in a random direction, I see a game just expanding on what it is. We went from cutscenes to actually flying ships to infiltrate other ships, while using our Warframes and Archwing, all in one mission. I don't see enough praise for that. 

[SneakyErvin]

Warframe is Warframe and it goes where it damn well pleases.

[CrimsonXX]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

It's amazing how many people truly believe the devs have no idea or plan for what they want to do with the game. As if they just stumbled upon a successful game. 

There was a time when they shared their long term plans with us, but players weren't able to handle that. Now dev streams have become marketing for soon to be released content instead of a look into everything they're working on. RJ wasnt random, Steve was working on that for years before it was released. Just because we don't know what they're doing, doesn't mean that the Devs don't know what they're doing. 

For all this talk about Warframe going in a random direction, I see a game just expanding on what it is. We went from cutscenes to actually flying ships to infiltrate other ships, while using our Warframes and Archwing, all in one mission. I don't see enough praise for that. 

95% agree (with the only 5% being that I do think they get pulled in different leans because of whining either on YT or in the forums, cause they unlike what some try to say do listen) with this. On the last bit, its also a game that doesn't restrain itself because of it being "just a looter shooter"; instead its a unique evolved beyond that category. It actually feels like a universe with a multitude of things to put your time into vs. isolated mission types that fit the genre like cookie-cutter types. I have wants for the future, but I keep them limited to that and not demands because "I know whats good for Warframe" or "the game should cater to what I want" like so many others do.

[Hypernaut1]

5 minutes ago, CrimsonXX said:

95% agree (with the only 5% being that I do think they get pulled in different leans because of whining either on YT or in the forums, cause they unlike what some try to say do listen) with this. On the last bit, its also a game that doesn't restrain itself because of it being "just a looter shooter"; instead its a unique evolved beyond that category. It actually feels like a universe with a multitude of things to put your time into vs. isolated mission types that fit the genre like cookie-cutter types. I have wants for the future, but I keep them limited to thaor myb 

and not demands because "I know whats good for Warframe" or "the game should cater to what I want" like so many others do.

I agree with you that they don't make major gameplay changes based on the whims of the forum and YouTube (they have actual in game ever data for that) , but I do feel that part of why dev streams have changed is based on the negative feedback they've been getting because people assume things are supposed to be one way or the other, or the backlash they get for just suggesting ideas or  impatience over upcoming features.  Though I will say the biggest reason is probably because they are working on more tentpole style updates now, that they save for a Tennocon reveal. 

 

[(PSN)DSparkGaming]

Some... expected replies but a lot of constructive feedback too. It's very interesting to see all of your thoughts on this topic. I'm surprised this thread hasn't been sent to the Shadow Realm yet. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2021-08-08 at 4:06 PM, (PSN)DSparkGaming said:

Hello everyone. I wanted to see where everyone's stance on this situation is. What is Warframe?

It seems there are multiple different versions of Warframe perceived by the community and the developers. A lot of people see Warframe as the power fantasy horde shooter where you have fun and destroy everything in your path. These people usually don't respond well to the constant nerfs this game gets. Some people see Warframe as a more tactical shooter where things are supposed to be challenging so the nerfs are rightly implemented to make certain aspects of the game not as OP or exploitable. The devs think this way too. Even with The New War on the horizon, this debate is very relevant. As we saw in the demo, Warframe went back to its Dark Sector roots in a way with its gameplay. I think it's fair to say everyone loved seeing that.

Now here is where it gets tricky. That segment of The New War quest... is it just a segment and nothing more? Sure. It opens up a path for DE where they can start to do more with the brand of Warframe such as maybe standalone story focused games or new PvP (finally). But what about Warframe itself? Where does it go after this quest? When we finish this quest, are we just going to get a new weapon or frame or something to level up in Hydron or ESO and that's it? I'm sure there will be something more and we'll just have to see. But we also know DE hasn't had a great track record lately. 

What do you guys think Warframe will be after The New War? Back to Steel Path but with new weapons or frames? Or raids, pvp, focus rework, consistent frame reworks, melee devil trigger, tau system, QOL changes (such as dodge/sprint/aim walk animations or dedicated augment slots or maybe another helminth segment to customise frames even further) etc?

Let's talk about it.  

 

Bonus question: Do you think Tencent will actually do something to help this game achieve greatness once more? 

Although I think you already screwed up by having the wrong thinking regarding the questions, I can still give it a go.

Warframe will do what it always does and should always do: continue building on  THEIR dream game while most of us continue to enjoy the journey and get nice, experimental detours along the way. Despite your claim, DE actually has a GREAT track record with recent content. There are a great many avenues to explore and grow in and, now with New War close, things are going to get even bigger and varied. 

Tencent is hella smart and understand the crazy value DE consistently brings to the table. The only downsides DE has is the nagging of a select but tired group of YouTube's that leech from the game while shamelessly bashing the game, ruining the new content by spoiling, asking dumb questions and starting divisive issues for personal gains. 

[Soy77]

A debate?

 

Nah thanks I'll pass.

 

People might go crazy for a chance to slaughter each other like this a couple of months ago. But lately i feel most of the members are already exhausted spending so much energy that'll bring absolutely no result. DE doesn't come to these forums anymore, and people's opinion means absolutely nothing around here because there's just so many of them.

Well, aside from those few special people who consider internet arguing is a form of sport and gain satisfaction from it. If you're one of these, please have at it. Just count me out.

[Fallen77]

That doesn't sound like a call to debate, more like op throwing all their wishes on the table, with a big fat "I'm sure we all agree on this" to add insult to injury.

Also, it's not said "people that like power fantasy tend to dislike nerfs", it is actually said "moronic children that don't understand anything about game design"

"The game came back to its dark sector roots"... have you even played dark sector ?

"DE had a bad track record lately"... you intend to put some actual points forward or are you just writing this to throw shades ? Again, don't assume that everyone thinks like you about everything. I don't know what kind of echo chamber you just got out of, but for people like me, who enjoy grinding in this game about grinding, I have been more than pleased with the majority of the latest updates.

Finally, I especially like the comment "one more weapon to levelup on hydron". That might very well mean nothing in this case (and I'm not saying it applies to op), but it shows how people engage with the game. Don't take new weapons with you while you're grinding something else yaknow, bring it to hydron, be done with it asap, then go back to grind whatever you were doing before with the exact same build as always. Imagine if people were actually thinking about ways to make the grind more varied, efficient and enjoyable... but no, no brain, hydron, force yourself into the same thing all the time, then complain that the grind is too much...

 

[Aesthier]

"It is a grand experiment."

 

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugyb9fhFF5vxNnAyWiN4AaABCQ

 

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

 

"DE had a bad track record lately"... you intend to put some actual points forward or are you just writing this to throw shades ? Again, don't assume that everyone thinks like you about everything. I don't know what kind of echo chamber you just got out of, but for people like me, who enjoy grinding in this game about grinding, I have been more than pleased with the majority of the latest updates.

 

 

This is how I feel. The game has been awesome to me the last few years. We went from corridors to flying capital ships into other ships to fight a custom boss that rewards us with a suped up weapon and a free cosmetic. 

What's not to love? Warframe is certainly the best it's ever been. And it keeps getting better IMO  

[CrimsonXX]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

This is how I feel. The game has been awesome to me the last few years. We went from corridors to flying capital ships into other ships to fight a custom boss that rewards us with a suped up weapon and a free cosmetic. 

What's not to love? Warframe is certainly the best it's ever been. And it keeps getting better IMO  

While not "new" and hasn't been recently touched on, I'd also toss in reworked Jackal boss fight styling in the interactive/engagement aspects as part of the evolution of the game (and one I'd love to see applied to other bosses that get reworked). From just hp killing to instead going in to utilize the Parazon in dismantling it piece by piece, while also being a way to circumvent "nuking" to some degree. I love how scifi the game has gone and can only hope to see it keep going there more and more as it evolves.

[(XBOX)ScooterLaroo]

On 2021-08-08 at 6:06 PM, (PSN)DSparkGaming said:

It seems there are multiple different versions of Warframe perceived by the community and the developers. A lot of people see Warframe as the power fantasy horde shooter where you have fun and destroy everything in your path. These people usually don't respond well to the constant nerfs this game gets. Some people see Warframe as a more tactical shooter where things are supposed to be challenging so the nerfs are rightly implemented to make certain aspects of the game not as OP or exploitable. The devs think this way too. Even with The New War on the horizon, this debate is very relevant. As we saw in the demo, Warframe went back to its Dark Sector roots in a way with its gameplay. I think it's fair to say everyone loved seeing that.

My best guess is that it's the first option. A fantasy horde shooter, as there is really no tactics in Warframe other than using the right weapon or ability to increase your DPS. I've heard from somewhere that the gameplay was somewhat inspired by Left 4 Dead or Left 4 Dead 2. (The original trailer was basically suggesting that this was going to be Dark Sector 2, electric boogaloo iirc). I don't mind nerfs as long as they are properly balanced and with good reasons behind them, which many would argue was not the case behind a lot of the recent nerfs and how DE handled it by copying and pasting a melee mod or two onto primary and secondaries while nerfing the melee mod to be inferior to the primary one. I also don't think the Dev's entirely think this way, as they are here to make a good game and make a good profit. Extending the amount of time it takes to get something boosts numbers and the more time it takes the more frustrated some players will be, so they'll buy or trade platinum to get the item needed. Not to say this is a bad design choice, just at times it's a bit too much, but I think they Dev's are doing what they think is best for their game and it's hard to argue since there is really no set definition for what Warframe is supposed to be.

As for The New War, in all honesty I don't think much will actually change in terms of Gameplay. Lore, lore on the other hand, the lore community will have a buffet that will last at least a year as they take apart just the 30 minute demo of the quest. That, and I think the reason why it looks back to the Dark Sector roots is because the characters your playing as aren't really meant to be more than just soldiers, like Hayden Tenno. They're special, yes, but they're not supposed to be like the Tenno in any way. But I do very much enjoy the slower gameplay option, just hope they don't go overboard and change the main gameplay to be like the demo (that would probably kill half the fandom in one strike and make the game more like Call of Duty and other franchises that release a new game once or twice a year)

 

 

On 2021-08-08 at 6:06 PM, (PSN)DSparkGaming said:

Now here is where it gets tricky. That segment of The New War quest... is it just a segment and nothing more? Sure. It opens up a path for DE where they can start to do more with the brand of Warframe such as maybe standalone story focused games or new PvP (finally). But what about Warframe itself? Where does it go after this quest? When we finish this quest, are we just going to get a new weapon or frame or something to level up in Hydron or ESO and that's it? I'm sure there will be something more and we'll just have to see. But we also know DE hasn't had a great track record lately. 

In all honesty, this is probably going to be the Apex Quest, the head of all quests, the final boss to any game here on out. After this, sadly, it may just be more bug fixes, a few more content updates, and then finally, hung up on the shelf and left behind. Maybe new quests would come along to finally detail more stuff, maybe the Deviri Paradox will finally be released and more lore to see. But after The New War, the main threat has been killed or dismantled. The Sentients are now gone. And maybe it's time for the Tenno to rest. A few more raids, the final lasting peace of the Grineer and Corpus and other factions. The Tenno finally get to rest once more, no longer having to worry if the future contains more death and destruction. Maybe as the Master Chief said it best," Wake me up when you need me."

 

 

On 2021-08-08 at 6:06 PM, (PSN)DSparkGaming said:

What do you guys think Warframe will be after The New War? Back to Steel Path but with new weapons or frames? Or raids, pvp, focus rework, consistent frame reworks, melee devil trigger, tau system, QOL changes (such as dodge/sprint/aim walk animations or dedicated augment slots or maybe another helminth segment to customise frames even further) etc?

1. I am hoping for better leveling up options for Warframe and weapons.

2. I am hoping for the return of Raids, as though I did play during the time that they existed, I never actually played them since I was a new player.

3. I don't think they'd do anymore PvP, as that's not what a lot of the fandom wants.

4. Honestly, I'm not sure about focus. The last time there was a focus rework almost everyone disliked it, as they had to go back and level EVERYTHING up again.

5. Not that many frames actually need reworks, so maybe, we can hope

6. Don't know what a devil trigger is, sorry

7. Tau system would be nice, but with nothing but sentients there... yeah that wouldn't be all that fun to most players who are casual. But the sweaty tryhard max build and unlimited theory crafting players would have one heck of a time, which isn't all that bad, they need some stuff.

8. I really do hope that they release the Diviri (Deviri?) Paradox. The lore there would be interesting. (I love Warframe lore) That and robo horse.

9. Actually tell us the heights of the Warframes, ships, and structures. I'm sure everyone in the lore community would like this nice addition to the game.

[CrimsonXX]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)ScooterLaroo said:

In all honesty, this is probably going to be the Apex Quest, the head of all quests, the final boss to any game here on out. After this, sadly, it may just be more bug fixes, a few more content updates, and then finally, hung up on the shelf and left behind. Maybe new quests would come along to finally detail more stuff, maybe the Deviri Paradox will finally be released and more lore to see. But after The New War, the main threat has been killed or dismantled. The Sentients are now gone. And maybe it's time for the Tenno to rest. A few more raids, the final lasting peace of the Grineer and Corpus and other factions. The Tenno finally get to rest once more, no longer having to worry if the future contains more death and destruction. Maybe as the Master Chief said it best," Wake me up when you need me."

I highly (HIGHLY) doubt this is going to be final questline. Potentially an arc ender, but leading into a new arc exploring more of the universe. Ideally potentially allowing the player to choose to save

Spoiler

Lotus thus acquiring at least 1 sentient ally heading into a new story arc potentially in Tau.

The Grineer and Corpus aren't about to put down arms and be peaceful, the sentients are very unlikely to be wiped out, the Infested are always going to be on the attack, and there's an entire universe potentially with more threats previously unknown. Not even diving into what awaits in Duviri (which is eventually coming, not sure why that's toned as a questionable) as well as The Man in the Wall (who legit could be the next arc's big antagonist).

Quote

6. Don't know what a devil trigger is, sorry

I assume its a reference to Devil May Cry where its a means for the MC of that series to transform into his more powerful demonic form. Not sure how its meant to apply to Warframe though.
 

Quote

7. Tau system would be nice, but with nothing but sentients there... yeah that wouldn't be all that fun to most players who are casual.

There's lore there, there's potential settlements of unknown species or even evolution of sentients that are non-combatant, potential connections to other systems that are even older that no one has reached before, etc. The sentients are one element within the universe of the game, there can be others and I highly doubt DE is anywhere near wanting to close the book on this story.

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

The game is mainly a loot collecting third person shooter/jack&slash. With some story and mmo elements. Meant mainly as a stress relief for fun game.  It's not really a super hardcore mmo.  Especially once you have most everything collected.

[(XBOX)ScooterLaroo]

22 minutes ago, CrimsonXX said:

I highly (HIGHLY) doubt this is going to be final questline. Potentially an arc ender, but leading into a new arc exploring more of the universe. Ideally potentially allowing the player to choose to save

Oh I have no doubt either. Duviri Paradox and The Tau System should be released to help understand the lore more and increase what the game has to offer in terms of story. My reasoning for calling this quest the Apex is most likely because it is going to be the longest quest and basically the big final to the Sentient and New War storyline, putting a neat bow on the most pressing issues and questions many have. But I don't think any quest after this will be up to the same as The New War, it will most likely be either new warframe and lore updates and such, but they won't be as massive as a threat to the entire Sol System. If it was, then it would, in my opinion, put a slight damper on the whole finale type feel the New War is giving off.

 

 

25 minutes ago, CrimsonXX said:

The Grineer and Corpus aren't about to put down arms and be peaceful, the sentients are very unlikely to be wiped out, the Infested are always going to be on the attack, and there's an entire universe potentially with more threats previously unknown. Not even diving into what awaits in Duviri (which is eventually coming, not sure why that's toned as a questionable) as well as The Man in the Wall (who legit could be the next arc's big antagonist).

I think you may have quoted the wrong person, lol. I don't think they'd put down arms either, at least not quickly. My main idea behind it is that they strike an uneasy alliance for a short while. Maybe with the Sentients attacking their control of areas would be weaker and allow for more people to live without their constant threat. But it's a far reaching idea and I have a good feeling that it won't happen at the end of the quest line.

I do also think that, in some way, The Man in the Wall will be our next antagonist of sorts. But the question remains what happens if we were to defeat him? That means, with how current theories understand TMITW, we'd be killing off the entire Void. Or at least a controller of it like The Outsider from Dishonored at the end of Dishonored: The Death of the Outsider.

 

 

28 minutes ago, CrimsonXX said:

I assume its a reference to Devil May Cry where its a means for the MC of that series to transform into his more powerful demonic form. Not sure how its meant to apply to Warframe though.

Maybe a button that turns the melee weapon extra sharp or something lel

 

 

29 minutes ago, CrimsonXX said:

There's lore there, there's potential settlements of unknown species or even evolution of sentients that are non-combatant, potential connections to other systems that are even older that no one has reached before, etc. The sentients are one element within the universe of the game, there can be others and I highly doubt DE is anywhere near wanting to close the book on this story.

Oh no doubt there will be lore there. Unknown species, planets, more evolutions of sentients, and more. But I think the issue I find with it will be the gameplay, since most Sentients can adapt to any attack. It could be possible that the Tau System will go like how the Sol System goes, but instead of the natural terrain, it could be destroyed or half-finished Orokin Towers and buildings turned slowly Sentient in nature. As they were meant to go there to make it habitable for the Orokin. 

Though I have high hopes for the lore that the Tau System will bring, I still have my doubts about gameplay with how current Sentients are portrayed. While they can be scary in a fight, they are far more annoying than dangerous. Only being dangerous if they are immune to your attacks and gang up on your warframe like you owe them credits.

[CrimsonXX]

25 minutes ago, (XBOX)ScooterLaroo said:

Oh I have no doubt either. Duviri Paradox and The Tau System should be released to help understand the lore more and increase what the game has to offer in terms of story. My reasoning for calling this quest the Apex is most likely because it is going to be the longest quest and basically the big final to the Sentient and New War storyline, putting a neat bow on the most pressing issues and questions many have. But I don't think any quest after this will be up to the same as The New War, it will most likely be either new warframe and lore updates and such, but they won't be as massive as a threat to the entire Sol System. If it was, then it would, in my opinion, put a slight damper on the whole finale type feel the New War is giving off.

More than likely it'd be another set of lead-ups to another New War big arc ender, similar to seasons on a TV show; though I guess the easiest type to point to would be a superhero type. They spend one season building up a big bad of the season, then finale has them taken down or dealt with; then next season has a different big bad that's built up to a big take down at the end. I can even imagine Duviri potentially playing a part in either 1st act or 2nd, especially if TMitW really is the next antagonist seeing how it seems to involve some form of dimension alteration. If it follows the current setup it'd be a 4 Act arc (TSD, TWW, The Sacrifice, and TNW = 4 Act arc).

Quote

I think you may have quoted the wrong person, lol. I don't think they'd put down arms either, at least not quickly. My main idea behind it is that they strike an uneasy alliance for a short while. Maybe with the Sentients attacking their control of areas would be weaker and allow for more people to live without their constant threat. But it's a far reaching idea and I have a good feeling that it won't happen at the end of the quest line.

Not sure if the quoted wrong person is supposed to be about the spoiler tag I used, but if not this is the exact quote line I was going towards in that reply

Quote

the final lasting peace of the Grineer and Corpus and other factions

Quote

I do also think that, in some way, The Man in the Wall will be our next antagonist of sorts. But the question remains what happens if we were to defeat him? That means, with how current theories understand TMITW, we'd be killing off the entire Void. Or at least a controller of it like The Outsider from Dishonored at the end of Dishonored: The Death of the Outsider.

a) Love seeing a Dishonored reference

b) I can imagine they'd setup something during the TMitW arc that'd lead into whatever the next stage is and as part of that storyline explaining how the Void would work without TMitW. If they get really ambitious (and its hopefully after a Grineer tile remaster) they could even use it as a way to remaster the Void tiles.

[Captain_Rocket505]

Warframe, by design, is a looter shooter with both (occasionally) fun and horrible mechanics. A system that lets you mod your weapons to your liking? Awesome. A system that randomly lets you buff 3 specific frames with the possibility of making you unkillable due to high armor (cough-invigorations-cough)? Horrible. The path I see is one of appealing to whatever gets the devs quick cash, such as letting you buy mechs or railjacks for plat, while adding systems designed to force the players to play more such as holokeys. It’s a shame, but it’s free so what do you expect? I can see the game dying off after the new war drops, but at the same time it’s an open page after that. All we can do is hope that the devs know what they’re doing and listen to us, the people who play their game. 

[(XBOX)ScooterLaroo]

12 minutes ago, CrimsonXX said:

More than likely it'd be another set of lead-ups to another New War big arc ender, similar to seasons on a TV show; though I guess the easiest type to point to would be a superhero type. They spend one season building up a big bad of the season, then finale has them taken down or dealt with; then next season has a different big bad that's built up to a big take down at the end. I can even imagine Duviri potentially playing a part in either 1st act or 2nd, especially if TMitW really is the next antagonist seeing how it seems to involve some form of dimension alteration. If it follows the current setup it'd be a 4 Act arc (TSD, TWW, The Sacrifice, and TNW = 4 Act arc).

That is true, it could very much be like that and I think that is what DE is actually going for, seasons or chapters in a book. 

Duviri, I think, will answer the most questions about the Void and who TMitW is. If he is the next antagonist or is just watching for amusement, much like The Outsider.

Small fun theory here: Dishonored came out in 2012 while the first appearance and mention of the Man in the Wall was the War Within Quest in 2016. They both act the same way, have a cult surrounding them, and bestow powers upon those they deem worthy. But that's just a theory, a Game Theory, I'm getting a copyright strike

 

 

15 minutes ago, CrimsonXX said:

b) I can imagine they'd setup something during the TMitW arc that'd lead into whatever the next stage is and as part of that storyline explaining how the Void would work without TMitW. If they get really ambitious (and its hopefully after a Grineer tile remaster) they could even use it as a way to remaster the Void tiles.

True, though I don't think a Grineer Tile remaster is coming anytime soon, maybe we could get it during The New War or after it since it seems a lot of ships are going to be going down.

 

[CrimsonXX]

31 minutes ago, Captain_Rocket505 said:

The path I see is one of appealing to whatever gets the devs quick cash, such as letting you buy mechs or railjacks for plat, while adding systems designed to force the players to play more such as holokeys. It’s a shame, but it’s free so what do you expect? I can see the game dying off after the new war drops, but at the same time it’s an open page after that. All we can do is hope that the devs know what they’re doing and listen to us, the people who play their game. 

Oh yes how disconnected that they do for mechs and RJ's what they do for literally everything else in the game, like what reason would there be to not offer those things for plat vs. everything else? Then again any time anyone tries to paint any issues with WF's monetization I just roll my eyes cause I've played games that actually do go for "quick cash" methods that give proper framing of WF. Do you have to spend irl money to be able to do missions past like 3 runs? No, then congrats you haven't seen real b.s. f2p methodology.

As for "dying off after TNW drops", ah yes the usual "the game is dying" b.s. that's been peddled repeatedly since between TSD and TWW; usually by people that are salty cause the game isn't catering to them. Usually tryhards. Yet the game keeps on going, has done so for 8 years now even though others have actually died, and will continue to do so. Just missing the "x-game is going to be the reason it finally dies, if it doesn't do y-thing"