Bane mods , are there any plans to make them universal?

[SpringRocker]

12 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No it matters a whole lot when serration is added. Serration only increases base damage of a weapon i.e the innate stats. Bane multiplies total damage, after all other mods are added into the equation. On a weapon with 100 base damage, serration only scales with those 100 base damage.

I think you've forgotten how math works.

100 * serration (165%) * bane (30%)
100 * 2.65 * 1.3 = 344.5

Add in bane before serration?
100 * 1.3 * 2.65 = 344.5

The other mods that add to damage ALSO  have their own multipliers. It doesn't matter what order things get multiplied.

[DarknessNightshade]

4 minutes ago, Parcialsobriedad said:

Also some points i forgot to add , endo sink. If for some reason you want to have all 4 primed banes maxed , although not personally recommended , i mostly level them up to r8 instead of 10 , but if you wanted to max those it would be 160kish per weapon class , adding up to 480k endo and a few credits sprinkled in. Thats , uhm , lot of endo 120 anasas or nearly 1300≈ platinum. Yeah..

Every Primed Mod is an endo sink. The regular Bane mods still offer a huge bonus to damage regardless, as also posted here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1276436-are-normal-smite-mods-sufficient-or-should-i-go-for-the-primed-smite-mods/#comment-12255682

Or more specically, the example of the Bramma with either equipped in a somewhat optimal config:

"Bane of Grineer adds a huge 35,769 bonus damage for a total of 154,999, 712,955 damage on a critical hit.

Primed Bane of Grineer, 65,576 bonus damage, 184,806, 850,107 damage on a critical hit."

Which is a difference of around 130k damage for the extra Endo and multiple millions of credits. 

[Parcialsobriedad]

3 minutes ago, DarknessNightshade said:

 

My main problem with this statement is the lack of tutorials rather than the plentiful access to something you'd really only consider to be a factor in lategame, you can just at any time slot that bad boy in and et voila.

Pointless making a change like that as the mod station as a whole is not explained at all, I had to learn everything virtually through other people or through the Wiki (even if it is outdated at times), thus, having the option to have an increase in damage if you really wanted to mod for specific factions is there if you want it.

If it was a matter of making modding easier, it should be considered as the entire experience of modding, in my opinion.

I dont know how a full modding tutorial/revamp should look like but this was given as a small qol suggestion , yes modding tutorial is needed , but this is borderline offtopic.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

48 minutes ago, DarknessNightshade said:

Most early weapons don't benefit from them

Anytime someone says that early game weapons don't benefit from faction mods, you can't be taken seriously with that comment. Early weapons do very much benefit from faction mods, seeing as how you get flawed versions to help with your damage output to get you started on your path. Your comment is only looking at them from a late game perspective, you've forgotten what an early game perspective looks like.

[DarknessNightshade]

2 minutes ago, Parcialsobriedad said:

I dont know how a full modding tutorial/revamp should look like but this was given as a small qol suggestion , yes modding tutorial is needed , but this is borderline offtopic.

I'd say it's quite related to QoL changes in general, if there's no other justification for changing how bane mods work other than "well I haven't made a config or a loadout" I doubt DE would do anything about it. 

[Parcialsobriedad]

8 minutes ago, DarknessNightshade said:

Every Primed Mod is an endo sink. The regular Bane mods still offer a huge bonus to damage regardless, as also posted here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1276436-are-normal-smite-mods-sufficient-or-should-i-go-for-the-primed-smite-mods/#comment-12255682

Or more specically, the example of the Bramma with either equipped in a somewhat optimal config:

"Bane of Grineer adds a huge 35,769 bonus damage for a total of 154,999, 712,955 damage on a critical hit.

Primed Bane of Grineer, 65,576 bonus damage, 184,806, 850,107 damage on a critical hit."

Which is a difference of around 130k damage for the extra Endo and multiple millions of credits. 

Do not be offended and this is not to be taken as anything personal, but this is besides my point and i will ignore posts like these from now on.

[DarknessNightshade]

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Anytime someone says that early game weapons don't benefit from faction mods, you can't be taken seriously with that comment. Early weapons do very much benefit from faction mods, seeing as how you get flawed versions to help with your damage output to get you started on your path. Your comment is only looking at them from a late game perspective, you've forgotten what an early game perspective looks like.

And you've forgotten that I've pointed out exactly, in actual numbers, using real math, that most of them don't provide a larger benefit, multiple times in this thread, actually. As well as the brief mention that they could be used instead of the Corrupted mods (such as Heavy Caliber) for a DPS boost. 

[DarknessNightshade]

8 minutes ago, Parcialsobriedad said:

Do not be offended and this is not to be taken as anything personal, but this is besides my point and i will ignore posts like these from now on.

I find my previous comment to be related to exactly your statement, personally, if you want to provide an actual argument for effectiveness against their cost, I'm all ears.

Or rather, specifically, how is the Endo cost you've brought up related to the QoL suggestion you're making?

[Uhkretor]

... I don't mind having faction mods becoming universal... if their max rank bonus is 1% and including Rivens.

 

... Give and take, people... Can't be all "give, give, give, give, give, give, give" and no take...

[(XBOX)Rez090]

10 minutes ago, DarknessNightshade said:

And you've forgotten that I've pointed out exactly, in actual numbers, using real math, that most of them don't provide a larger benefit, multiple times in this thread, actually. As well as the brief mention that they could be used instead of the Corrupted mods (such as Heavy Caliber) for a DPS boost. 

To point something out, your math "numbers" are from someone in late game, with most or all mods, maxed ones to boot. You are not coming at this from the perspective of EARLY GAME players with EARLY GAME weapons. You are so completely wrong when you keep stating that faction mods are useless on EARLY GAME weapons. EARLY GAME players won't have maxed mods outright, they won't have farmed for corrupted mods. Those faction mods will most certainly help their EARLY GAME weapons.

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

To point something out, your math "numbers" are from someone in late game, with most or all mods, maxed ones to boot. You are not coming at this from the perspective of EARLY GAME players with EARLY GAME weapons. You are so completely wrong when you keep stating that faction mods are useless on EARLY GAME weapons. EARLY GAME players won't have maxed mods outright, they won't have farmed for corrupted mods. Those faction mods will most certainly help their EARLY GAME weapons.

To be fair, early game when lacking in potatoes, players only have enough space to fit on Base Damage and Elements. Banes only become valuable after exhausting all the other unconditional multipliers first (Base Damage, Multi-shot, Elements). 

[(XBOX)Rez090]

49 minutes ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

To be fair, early game when lacking in potatoes, players only have enough space to fit on Base Damage and Elements. Banes only become valuable after exhausting all the other unconditional multipliers first (Base Damage, Multi-shot, Elements). 

The flawed versions easily fit and help early. Early game you don't have the endo or credits to fully upgrade the damage mods. The flawed mods come in very handy since they don't have a high endo/cred cost.

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

52 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

The flawed versions easily fit and help early. Early game you don't have the endo or credits to fully upgrade the damage mods. The flawed mods come in very handy since they don't have a high endo/cred cost.

Flawed Serration: +40% Damage for 7 Drain

Flawed Element: +40% Element for 7 Drain

Each subsequent element has lower relative gain as they are additive with each other:

1. 1st Element +40%
2. 2nd Element +28.5%
3. 3rd Element +22.2%

Flawed Bane: +10% Damage for 5 Drain, which is weaker than a 3rd element. 

With 30 capacity, Flawed Serration and 3 Elements already cost 28 points

Bane: +30% Damage to Faction for 9 Drain is stronger than a 2nd Flawed Element when ignoring +75% vulnerability bonuses of combined elements

Flawed Serration, 2 Flawed Elements and 1 Bane, is the optimal use of 30 points, but new players seldom have 30 points to work with at any given time as they are constantly tossing weapons to increase MR. 

 

 

 

 

[(XBOX)Rez090]

1 hour ago, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Flawed Serration: +40% Damage for 7 Drain

Flawed Element: +40% Element for 7 Drain

Each subsequent element has lower relative gain as they are additive with each other:

1. 1st Element +40%
2. 2nd Element +28.5%
3. 3rd Element +22.2%

Flawed Bane: +10% Damage for 5 Drain, which is weaker than a 3rd element. 

With 30 capacity, Flawed Serration and 3 Elements already cost 28 points

Bane: +30% Damage to Faction for 9 Drain is stronger than a 2nd Flawed Element when ignoring +75% vulnerability bonuses of combined elements

Flawed Serration, 2 Flawed Elements and 1 Bane, is the optimal use of 30 points, but new players seldom have 30 points to work with at any given time as they are constantly tossing weapons to increase MR. 

Some of your math is only applicable if the weapon doesn't have any innate polarities.

[Quimoth]

It makes little sense to change a couple dozen of mods for the sake of QoL when it completely destroys another part of the game. Loadouts are clunky yes, but why solve it by making them completely obsolete?

You are just going to start another race to making mods obsolete. Who still uses the elemental mods without status chance?

I would much rather see DE working on improving the interfaces by making the arsenal and loadouts less clunky. I do not like that I automatically overwrite a loadout by going into the arsenal to change a single weapon for a sortie or something only to find out I just overwrote my loadout. Same with loadouts for weapons being available only when i am in the upgrade/modding section of the arsenal of said weapon. To me those 2 issues are what should be fixed. Bane and Smite mods are fine as is, they are meant to enhance your weapon for a specific faction.

A universal bane/smite mod would make as much sense to me as making a new mod that gives 100% corrosive and 100% status chance because you do not want to equip both toxin and electric mods to achieve the same.

Dismissing load-outs as easily as you do without at least admitting that they COULD solve most of your issues if they would be properly implemented is a bit to quick and easy for me. Just like your suggestion is a LOT to quick and easy in general.

Quick question to anyone willing to answer:

When was the last time you actually used a load-out?

[Walkampf]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb Parcialsobriedad:

We have the option to equip them individually but why not make them universal as to not make them much of a hassle to equip them regardless of mission.

Why stop here?

We also have to switch elemental damage mods. Let's just make those universal to. Every element causen +75% damage to any enemy and always procc every status effect.

And we also have to switch weapons, make weapons universal. just have one weapon, which does all the damage.

[Parcialsobriedad]

43 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Why stop here?

We also have to switch elemental damage mods. Let's just make those universal to. Every element causen +75% damage to any enemy and always procc every status effect.

And we also have to switch weapons, make weapons universal. just have one weapon, which does all the damage.

Forgot the /s buckaroo.

[Parcialsobriedad]

17 hours ago, Parcialsobriedad said:

QOL changes , i've discovered the bane of warframe players. Pun intended.

.

[Parcialsobriedad]

Im just asking for universal multiplicative damage mod , like bruh its already there but clunky to use.

If someone mentions serration again i will reply with cringe not pog warframe moment and thats a quote.

[Parcialsobriedad]

1 hour ago, Quimoth said:

 

When was the last time you actually used a load-out?

Would you trust me if i said i had 44 loadout slots and most of my weapons have at least 4 loadouts or you need visual proof. 

 

8 minutes ago, Parcialsobriedad said:

Im just asking for universal multiplicative damage mod , like bruh its already there but clunky to use.

 

[Walkampf]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Parcialsobriedad:

Im just asking for universal multiplicative damage mod , like bruh its already there but clunky to use.

If someone mentions serration again i will reply with cringe not pog warframe moment and thats a quote.

What about Heavy Caliber, there is you universal damage mod, which isn't Serration.

 

As I already said, we already have different elemental types for different enemies.

What QOL is provided by a universal bane mod, in a Magnetic build, compared to a corpus bane??

[Parcialsobriedad]

Just now, Walkampf said:

What about Heavy Caliber, there is you universal damage mod, which isn't Serration.

 

As I already said, we already have different elemental types for different enemies.

What QOL is provided by a universal bane mod, in a Magnetic build, compared to a corpus bane??

If someone mentions serration again i will reply with cringe not pog warframe moment and thats a quote.

 

Viral slash exist. 

[Walkampf]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Parcialsobriedad:

If someone mentions serration again i will reply with cringe not pog warframe moment and thats a quote.

 

Viral slash exist. 

Well, that's not an answer to my question.

But, well, since you tihnk viral slash is madatory and Magnetic Builds are not worth considering, just let me repeat myself,

why stop at bane mods?

Just roll all damage types into a single element. Then nobody has to switch a mod-loadout ever.

[Parcialsobriedad]

3 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Well, that's not an answer to my question.

But, well, since you tihnk viral slash is madatory and Magnetic Builds are not worth considering, just let me repeat myself,

why stop at bane mods?

Just roll all damage types into a single element. Then nobody has to switch a mod-loadout ever.

Diminishing returns wuoah , thats crazy. Dont you know?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/nc4n0c/diminishing_returns/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Viral slash is almost universal damage at this point at least for normal content , and please stop putting words on my mouth.

[Parcialsobriedad]

17 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

I think you've forgotten how math works.

100 * serration (165%) * bane (30%)
100 * 2.65 * 1.3 = 344.5

Add in bane before serration?
100 * 1.3 * 2.65 = 344.5

The other mods that add to damage ALSO  have their own multipliers. It doesn't matter what order things get multiplied.

Add another serration there and show me what would happen.

Warframe players do need a damage and modding tutorial , i agree on that but thats beside my point