Nova Getting Nerfed!?

[Hammie]

Did I get your attention? Good :D

 

I’ve been spotting a lot of threads, almost on a daily basis titled “Nova is OP” or “Nova needs to be nerfed!” since the day she had been released, and I can’t help but facepalm at the sight of each and every one. Not only are the individuals posting in such threads not seeing the underlying problem that has nothing to do with Nova or her abilities, but they can only notice the most obvious, that being Nova and her very visible ultimate ability “Molecular Prime”. Most of these individuals (I assume) base their complaints on their experience playing low to mid level content in which clearing an entire screen with the press of a button is a cakewalk for Nova. But I am here to tell you that not only is accusing Nova of being op a misconception, but it is entirely wrong and undeserved – Let me explain why.

 

This game has some major flaws that completely slip most people’s minds when they come here to complain about this or that frame. That is the fact that highly geared players, those individuals who have invested 300+ hours into the game, (whom have every powerful mod slotted into their frame at max rank and totting the most efficient builds possible), are running around alongside players who have only been warframing for a week or less. Not only does it create a discouraging environment for new or inexperienced players, running around and watching some schmuck with a maxed out ember, saryn, rhino, mag, or nova rushing on ahead and slaughtering all the enemies before they can even catch up, but this sort of gameplay is ENCOURAGED by the very design of the game.

 

Highly geared players are encouraged to play low level content due to both the ease, and the rewards they are granted by the mission. Naturally, there are –some- exceptions to this, such as if the player desires a mat/blueprint/mod that only drops in void/OD missions or a boss world. But by and large, low level content is done by highly geared players for 3 things, mats, mods, and cores (or they’re leveling a new frame with powerful mods slotted in already). Sure, they can go do higher level content for the same or similar rewards, but half the time its simply easier to just plow through low level content with non-existent challenge, often times for the same amount of rewards.

 

A second problem that contributes to the perception of nova being overpowered, is the fact that energy is bountiful, TOO bountiful, and this isn’t just applicable for Nova, it’s for –ALL- frames. Energy orbs are just too common, and there are simply too many ways to improve energy management till it reaches a point where you simply no longer pay attention to your energy levels, you and your groupmates are all running energy siphon, or you’ve got fleeting expertise slotted, or equilibrium. In the end, it is just too easy for players to just pop #4 in each and every room of enemies they come across.

 

Now I’m sure some of you say “Well, they can always choose not to, for the sake of not ruining other players’ gaming experience!” But that’s a pretty big assumption that said player actually gives a damn about your playing experience above their own. Yeah, it’s a choice, and some players choose their own enjoyment over others’. The problem is they are being given that choice in the first place because it is TOO EASY to spam powers, even the most expensive and devastating. Maybe it was intentional by DE, maybe not, but it is an aspect of the game that i, personally, disagree with strongly. I feel powers should not be spammable, but should be there for 'oh S#&$!' moments and for tactical purposes, but that sort of use is completely glossed over due to the abundance of energy.

 

So let’s put this all into perspective and this can be treated as the TLDR:

 

1. Players with large investments of time and gear into their warframes are able to join low level, inexperienced players in the same game/map/instance.
2. Most of the time, their reasons are for the rewards, such as mats, mods, and cores.
3. Energy is TOO plentiful, energy management is TOO easy. Powers are TOO spammable and most people choose to do so regardless of who disagrees because they are –able- to do so.
4. Something I haven’t iterated above, Novas are by far the most common of warframes, theres almost always 1 in every game, sometimes multiple. So naturally Nova is given the most exposure.

 

End result?

 

Everyone perceives Nova to be OP.

 

Who else is capable of devastating entire rooms of enemies in low to mid level content before anyone else can catch up to them?

 

Rhino

Mag

Ember

Saryn

(add more here if i've missed any)

 

Point being, this isn’t a capability ‘unique’ to Nova, it is applicable to players of a certain kind and a certain status.

 

With that all being said: Let’s face it, Nova’s ultimate IS most likely going to be adjusted when the armor changes take place, but a lot of frames’ abilities are too as well as many of the weapons. As the devs stated in a live stream, such a massive change is going to ripple to all the other aspects of the game. That means changes being inbound to not just Nova, but many other frames as well, if not -all-, is highly likely.  So its better to just accept it and enjoy it while you can. If such a system makes such a huge difference for weapons and the mods inserted into such, then chances are, Nova’s ultimate will do too much in that new system and will need toning down.

 

I for one do not believe Nova’s #4 is overpowered in general. It is overpowered in low-mid level content, but not in high level content. And those of you who do play such know this as well. People who complain about Nova call you or I a ‘nova fanboy’ for stating such, but imo, these individuals are ill-informed and cannot see the underlying problems beyond the most obvious and most common (that being nova’s ability sticking out like a sore thumb, which is fully compounded by the above mentioned points).

 

It is my hopes that the armor changes to enemies address this issue, and that high level players can no longer simply trounce low to mid level content, otherwise this problem will persist beyond these changes and complaints about Nova will be changed to complaints about some other warframe capable of melting entire rooms nonstop. In addition to that, it is my hopes that such changes will also mean armor debuffing powers wont be as necessary in high-end content (such as on defense missions or survival). Mind you, its possible to do such without a banshee or nova already, but you can't ignore the huge boost either frame provides on such maps.

 

Okay, my soapboxing is done, sorry for the huge post. This is all based on my experiences in the game, and as such, it is just my opinion, even the abrasive parts ;p But even if what all i've stated has been said countless times before, i;d like to still get my take and opinion out there. Change never happens when one remains silent, after all.

 

-Hammie

[_Rue_]

ember doesn't benefit from fleeting expertise.

[Silraed]

I read most but not all of your post.

I have to say that Nova's ultimate is over powered, but not because it can clear rooms. It is OP because it fits all 3 roles an ability can fit.
It is a damage amp, it is a high damage output and it is a crowd control and it does them all very well.

That is what is wrong with it.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Silraed

[Hammie]

ember doesn't benefit from fleeting expertise.

 

never stated she did.

[_Rue_]

you should have. because i can cast m prime for 25 energy. and ember can't.

 

not sure if fleeting image was the first step before nerfing things

[Hammie]

Ember not being able to take advantage of Fleeting Expertise doesn't really prevent her from being able to clear rooms with WoF.  Energy has never been an issue prior to the inclusion of dragon mods after all. The dragon mods are another problem actually >.> but on the other hand they offer variety in builds so meh.

[Hammie]

I read most but not all of your post.

I have to say that Nova's ultimate is over powered, but not because it can clear rooms. It is OP because it fits all 3 roles an ability can fit.

It is a damage amp, it is a high damage output and it is a crowd control and it does them all very well.

That is what is wrong with it.

 

The problem with this is there are plenty of abilities in the game that fulfill multiple roles like this. Frost's ultimate not only freezes the targets temporarily, but also deals damage, Mag's ultimate levitates then ragdolls targets while dealing decent damage as well, so does her pull (but thats another matter entirely), a few other powers can be considered filling multiple roles as well. So sure, Molecular Prime does fulfill 3 roles instead of 2.

 

The thing about Nova's ultimate is that, In low-mid level content, the damage portion of the ability is the only thing that plays a noticeable role, then come late/end game, the damage becomes negligible (due to scaling enemy hp/armor) and the armor debuff and slow starts to play a bigger role. Which i feel is a nice 'concept' for a power, its effects changing based on the content, though this may not have been intentional heh. But i dont think this fact in and of itself makes it overpowered, but again thats just my opinion.

[HAYABU5A]

nova lets me solo stuff i shouldnt be able to or just couldnt with another frame

 

id would have no problem at all if DE decided to nerf her, then i could actually use other frames and enjoy some variation 

 

the recent event is a good example, if u want something done fast you automatically default to nova, she just blitzed thru the map on the event either solo or carrying the entire team lol 

[Dairkrinn]

I agree with all your points but one. Just to clarify, I'm not a new player, played aroung 400 hours since march, done all kind of missions of all levels, so I did high-level content. I got all frames but Nekros leveled to 30, including nova.

 

There is indeed major flaws in the current games's system, and you pointed out most of them (the only major flaw I think you didn't talk about was the networking system but that is completely different) :

- The lack of risk vs reward, with is the cause of the 2 first problems you mentionned (old and new palyers plyaing together and no incentive to play harder planets).

- The completely broken energy system : energy is far too abundant, it is too easily managable to bypass it's limitations, making possible to spam 'rth abilities.

It is true that at low-mid level content (up to level 40 aproximatively) that others frames that you names can do he same, and I see everyday a lot of rhinos that do exactely that.

 

BUT there is one point where I strongely disagree with you, and it is your conclusion : Nova's molecular prime is superior to the others ultimates just because it's room-cleaning abilities is not limited to low-mid content :

I just did a T3 extermination (there wasn't a quick lvl 100 alert at this time to check) with lvl 80 mobs : when there is at least 5 (maybe more, I don't really know, but less than 10) ennemies within reasonable reach of each other, the ability of chain-reaction really kicks in an I've been able to clean entires rooms in a single blast.

So sure, when there is only 3 ennemies the blast isn't powerfull enough, but this ability is the most effective for fighting large groups : the more ennemies there is the more powerfull it gets due to the chain reaction.

 

You says that novas are the most common frames at the moment, and there is a reason for that, it is because it's 4rth ability is the best in terms of direct damage (not even counting the damage amp and slow).

So does it need a nerf ? yes it does.

But not before a revamp of the damage and energy system.

[cary2010haha]

I agree with all your points but one. Just to clarify, I'm not a new player, played aroung 400 hours since march, done all kind of missions of all levels, so I did high-level content. I got all frames but Nekros leveled to 30, including nova.

 

There is indeed major flaws in the current games's system, and you pointed out most of them (the only major flaw I think you didn't talk about was the networking system but that is completely different) :

- The lack of risk vs reward, with is the cause of the 2 first problems you mentionned (old and new palyers plyaing together and no incentive to play harder planets).

- The completely broken energy system : energy is far too abundant, it is too easily managable to bypass it's limitations, making possible to spam 'rth abilities.

It is true that at low-mid level content (up to level 40 aproximatively) that others frames that you names can do he same, and I see everyday a lot of rhinos that do exactely that.

 

BUT there is one point where I strongely disagree with you, and it is your conclusion : Nova's molecular prime is superior to the others ultimates just because it's room-cleaning abilities is not limited to low-mid content :

I just did a T3 extermination (there wasn't a quick lvl 100 alert at this time to check) with lvl 80 mobs : when there is at least 5 (maybe more, I don't really know, but less than 10) ennemies within reasonable reach of each other, the ability of chain-reaction really kicks in an I've been able to clean entires rooms in a single blast.

So sure, when there is only 3 ennemies the blast isn't powerfull enough, but this ability is the most effective for fighting large groups : the more ennemies there is the more powerfull it gets due to the chain reaction.

 

You says that novas are the most common frames at the moment, and there is a reason for that, it is because it's 4rth ability is the best in terms of direct damage (not even counting the damage amp and slow).

So does it need a nerf ? yes it does.

But not before a revamp of the damage and energy system.

do you really check the list? Rhino still the most player use frame.

 

Nova still far away to get to rhino's Throne

[Reaver_X]

Nova is fine, her ultimate is fine, quit crying,

 

as a certain ex-microsoft employee would say:

 

#Dealwithit

[AlmightyT0T]

 

End result?

 

Everyone perceives Nova to be OP.

 

Who else is capable of devastating entire rooms of enemies in low to mid level content before anyone else can catch up to them?

 

Rhino

Mag

Ember

Saryn

(add more here if i've missed any)

 

Point being, this isn’t a capability ‘unique’ to Nova, it is applicable to players of a certain kind and a certain status.

 

 

 

This is only a part of the post. So don 't think this is all I read.

 

You're saying that these warframes can also kill a room with enemies in a quick action. However. Nova's 4th ability will instantly mark enemies and make them explode on death. This means that all killed targets become 'nova trageted' and usually when people try to shoot an enemy who is 'primed' will shoot it and then see no enemies around anymore because they chain reacted in the explosion.

 

This makes several of the warframes you stated dazzled by Nova Quickly passing by.

Rhino: Moleculair prime has shorter cast time than Rhino stomp, making Nova's ability quite dominating to Rhino's stomp. And if cast later, Rhino stomp has an 'shockwave speed' which takes longer to affect enemies that are at a larger distance. This makes moleculair prime still able to prime all targets either going to be 'stomped' or been stomped and not dead yet.

As you stated Rhino can take out low to mid level enemies. Well if this is the case Nova will just troll him since Rhino could just shoot or rhino charge one of the 'primed' targets to start the explosion party, rather than 'wasting' his 4th ability.

 

Mag: I must admit that Pull is kinda OP since it costs 25 and low to mid levels will die of it. No aiming and sick AOE or watever it is. So I am not going to really argument that. If you by any chance meant the Crush ability is usefull: Nova has a lifetime to cast moleculair prime while Mag is preforming the crush animation before she actually - hits-  the targets, which will all be primed for years when mag finally finishes crush.

 

Ember: World on fire gets weaker on lower level enemies. In big hordes you'll notice that ember has quite a target limit. As a lot of enemies you'll be standing next to (body contact ^^) are not affected because enemies behind you are still having the 'burning debuff". Nova has no problems of too many targets because if some enemies are not affected. they will be killed in the explosion mass.

 

Saryn:

Spore: Quite hard to destroy them and make them explode. No explosion before target dies, no poison spread. Moleculair prime guarantees self destruct on death. Low to mid level enemies will even get killed by the poison before you can try to shoot the spores.

Miasma: DoT skill, so Nova can just do her little 'Quick passing by' Trick. "Didn't kill then yet Saryn? I'll prime them for you"

 

If not for moleculair prime, nova can just cast null star which instakills enemies at low to mid level. Without doing anything yourself anymore. It will even outmatch the sentinel. Also it just stakes 25 energy and gives a big amount of stars.

 

Also, there used to be one warframe that 'shotgun taggs' his targets: Ash. Every enemy glowing red used to scream : "Back off, he's mine !". But now ash is killing too slow and nova just primes while ash did only a few targets. The best way to grieve an ash is to make him cast his ult and see that the first target he kills explode  while his awesome killing spree is canceled due to exploded targets.

I know this one is not listed by you as an example of quick room cleaning warframes, so this one is a separate 'ult skill grieve'.

 

By the way. Most of the examples used to debate wheter a warframe is OP is experienced subjective. I mean, nova shotgunning all targets doesn 't really bother me since I want them dead and exp is shared (or at least it is not like I kill, you get 0% exp). However, some players get trolled by this or wonder why nova is the only one that just passes by and marks enemies. And indeed, Nova's moleculair prime must be triggered after cast. I actually think that all players acknowledge affinity is shared (there are some 'presence' criterea but I am refferring to 'nova primes an enemy I am killing' which will mean that you are close enough to get affinity) and having the enemy dead is not a problem. Yet Nova's skills just seems so dominating other skills rather than dominating enemies. I mean, when I see mag pulling, I see some flying corpses. When I see frost, I see some frozen enemies. When I see ash, well I don't see him nor his target for long ^^. When I see rhino, I see all targets flying. When I see nova interferring. I see one bigh new year bang on my screen full of digits and suddenly all is gone.

 

So a normal day playing with nova when you are giving your powers a break would look like this:

 

You are just trying to shoot stab or kick someone and BOOM all gone. As it is really funny to see rhino run past enemies ignoring them with his iron skin, and nova running past them ignoring all the dying corpus with null star. Also this is looks also funn to ember just buring people and nova killing 10+ targets for 25 energy, which last as long as there are still projectiles left 'unemployed'

 

I myself am not stating that I think nova is OP, neither am I saying that Nova taking out enemies is a problem. Yet it might be experienced more dominating than other warframes.

Edited November 3, 2013 by AlmightyT0T

[fatpig84]

If you want to argue "EZ mode" I argue Rhino actually has moar EZ mode.

 

He has a limited maneuverability skill (you can cast it out of a zorencopter for moar distance), a party damage amp, a skill that mitigates damage off him and of course that press 4 button.

 

My speed running rhino has all 4 skills, vanguard, redirection, focus, quick rest, flow, rush and streamline.

I don't even need corrupted mods to make mince meat out of content from 1 to 90. Above 90 I start looking at Nyx, Loki, Trinity etc.

 

With max focus and vanguard, Iron skin gives 1.5k overshield, stomps hits up to 1k damage unbuffed.

Roar add 65% more damage which results in a rather powerful 1.65k damage stomp, which handily drops nearly everything up to the 70s.

 

Zoren copter with Rhino is even more effective because his Iron skin lets him take some stray hits. Even the wrong end of a level 80 scorcher, and you can cast IS in the air again if need.

 

Nova doesn't have that.

That is why Rhino is easiest the frame to use and by far the most popular.

Edited November 3, 2013 by fatpig84

[Inofor]

Nova's Molecular Prime is definitely, unambiguously overpowered. Even if the direct damage portion was removed completely, it'd still be an effective ultimate: 60 seconds of 50% slow and double damage. If you think about it, this is kind of what happens to balance it in higher levels.

 

I use Nova a lot because it's such an effective frame for running through levels. I farmed all my runs for the last event with either solo nova or me as pulse volt and my friend as nova. The frame has kind of become mandatory for effective gameplay. Nova's ultimate also makes the gameplay experience worse for random players in the matchmaking since they don't get a piece of the action.

 

I agree that there's too much energy to go around nowadays. This is partly caused by Energy Siphon.

[AlmightyT0T]

If you want to argue "EZ mode" I argue Rhino actually has moar EZ mode.

 

He has a limited maneuverability skill (you can cast it out of a zorencopter for moar distance), a party damage amp, a skill that mitigates damage off him and of course that press 4 button.

 

My speed running rhino has all 4 skills, vanguard, redirection, focus, quick rest, flow, rush and streamline.

I don't even need corrupted mods to make mince meat out of content from 1 to 90. Above 90 I start looking at Nyx, Loki, Trinity etc.

 

With max focus and vanguard, Iron skin gives 1.5k overshield, stomps hits up to 1k damage unbuffed.

Roar add 65% more damage which results in a rather powerful 1.65k damage stomp, which handily drops nearly everything up to the 70s.

 

Zoren copter with Rhino is even more effective because his Iron skin lets him take some stray hits. Even the wrong end of a level 80 scorcher, and you can cast IS in the air again if need.

 

Nova doesn't have that.

That is why Rhino is easiest the frame to use and by far the most popular.

 

Please specify EZ and 'speed running' Because capture, spy en deception only need speed (which nova has). Exterminate needs killing, assasinations don't really have speed as highest priority when speed running an assassination (speedrun only refers to quick boss kill).

 

If you mean capture,spy,deception. Nova has higher speed than rhino, rhino is actually slowest warframe atm (with frost). Also if you attempt to kill, with rhino stomp or just run through with iron skin. 

Null star : only 25 energy, low-mid level targets instakill. No worries of damage if attacker is dead. you don't need to stop by and use rhino stomp as the null star will hit targets that 'get in the way' while you can just run through. Also, if you mention targets like an lvl 80 scorcher, Nova doesn't instakil them yet stun locks them with null star till they're dead. BTW, iron skin wil probally be ash skin with lvl 80 scorcher, normal grineer lancers can even take out max iron skin with max focus in 5 seconds on 70+.

 

And ofcourse, a lot of enemies in the way? wormhole FTW. Just like volt, Nova is soo good in speedrunning, she can even bring a rhino with her at the same time ^^. Since null star is really cheap you can save up energy for wormhole. Rather than recasting iron skin everytime it runs out.

 

Nova passing by an ash and an loki that are playing with decoys for a valid (switch) teleport target*

 

"So long, ***boys !" (hang over 1)

 

Embarassed Loki and Ash passing through the wormhole after running out of enery*

Edited November 3, 2013 by AlmightyT0T

[bl00dbliz]

Well 

 

If you want to argue "EZ mode" I argue Rhino actually has moar EZ mode.

 

He has a limited maneuverability skill (you can cast it out of a zorencopter for moar distance), a party damage amp, a skill that mitigates damage off him and of course that press 4 button.

 

My speed running rhino has all 4 skills, vanguard, redirection, focus, quick rest, flow, rush and streamline.

I don't even need corrupted mods to make mince meat out of content from 1 to 90. Above 90 I start looking at Nyx, Loki, Trinity etc.

 

With max focus and vanguard, Iron skin gives 1.5k overshield, stomps hits up to 1k damage unbuffed.

Roar add 65% more damage which results in a rather powerful 1.65k damage stomp, which handily drops nearly everything up to the 70s.

 

Zoren copter with Rhino is even more effective because his Iron skin lets him take some stray hits. Even the wrong end of a level 80 scorcher, and you can cast IS in the air again if need.

 

Nova doesn't have that.

That is why Rhino is easiest the frame to use and by far the most popular.

If we continue like this, some may think to nerf Rhino, which would be an enormous mistake....

[Grailchaser]

I don't think nova is OP, because what she does is proportional to the sacrifice in durability and defensive skills. 

 

That being said, I hate playing with nova players because decent operators tend to take the fun out of things by killing everything in the room. efficient, yes, but I might as well have just stayed at the dropoff, if you get my meaning. This is probably why a lot of people say Nova is OP, because her abilities make them very conscious of the fact that they can't kill things as fast as she does. 

 

Then again, I've made outkilling nova players into my personal challenge mode, so...

[fatpig84]

Please specify EZ and 'speed running' Because capture, spy en deception only need speed (which nova has). Exterminate needs killing, assasinations don't really have speed as highest priority when speed running an assassination (speedrun only refers to quick boss kill).

 

If you mean capture,spy,deception. Nova has higher speed than rhino, rhino is actually slowest warframe atm (with frost). Also if you attempt to kill, with rhino stomp or just run through with iron skin. 

Null star : only 25 energy, low-mid level targets instakill. No worries of damage if attacker is dead. you don't need to stop by and use rhino stomp as the null star will hit targets that 'get in the way' while you can just run through. Also, if you mention targets like an lvl 80 scorcher, Nova doesn't instakil them yet stun locks them with null star till they're dead. BTW, iron skin wil probally be ash skin with lvl 80 scorcher, normal grineer lancers can even take out max iron skin with max focus in 5 seconds on 70+.

 

And ofcourse, a lot of enemies in the way? wormhole FTW. Just like volt, Nova is soo good in speedrunning, she can even bring a rhino with her at the same time ^^. Since null star is really cheap you can save up energy for wormhole. Rather than recasting iron skin everytime it runs out.

 

Nova passing by an ash and an loki that are playing with decoys for a valid (switch) teleport target*

 

"So long, ***boys !" (hang over 1)

 

Embarassed Loki and Ash passing through the wormhole after running out of enery*

 

Perhaps I haven't phrase my comparison clearer.

 

Rhino slowest warframe ? Probably.

But have you actually used Vanguard ?

Probably not I guess, but since Worm hole is 1 of the best utility skills,  I doubt Nova players care anyway.

Most Novas don't even fit Rush or Quick Rest anyway,

 

 

You argue null star is great BUT you forget it only fires 1 at a time.

At an eternity of 1 per second.

You are leaving your fate to RnG to stun whatever 1 mob of the skill's choosing.

That is why nobody consider it as a reliable defense hence calling her glass cannon.

 

 

So it simply boils down to this. 

Rhino can make mistakes.

 

Nova can't. 

That makes her balanced.

Edited November 3, 2013 by fatpig84

[DaveC]

Did I get your attention? Good :D

 

I’ve been spotting a lot of threads, almost on a daily basis titled “Nova is OP” or “Nova needs to be nerfed!” since the day she had been released, and I can’t help but facepalm at the sight of each and every one.

If there are so many threads on a daily basis about Nova from so many people....you don't think there might be a problem with the Nova warframe? I suspect you're one of those Nova players people are complaining about, play Nova

90% of the time and don't want it nerfed.

Nerf on DE, nerf on......

[AlmightyT0T]

Please specify EZ and 'speed running' Because capture, spy en deception only need speed (which nova has). Exterminate needs killing, assasinations don't really have speed as highest priority when speed running an assassination (speedrun only refers to quick boss kill).

 

".."

 

 

Perhaps I haven't phrase my comparison clearer.

 

Rhino slowest warframe ? Probably.

But have you actually used Vanguard ?

Probably not I guess, but since Worm hole is 1 of the best utility skills,  I doubt Nova players care anyway.

Most Novas don't even fit Rush or Quick Rest anyway,

 

 

You argue null star is great BUT you forget it only fires 1 at a time.

At an eternity of 1 per second.

You are leaving your fate to RnG to stun whatever 1 mob of the skill's choosing.

That is why nobody consider it as a reliable defense hence calling her glass cannon.

 

 

So it simply boils down to this. 

Rhino can make mistakes.

 

Nova can't. 

That makes her balanced.

 

Once again: please specify what speedrun. Quick killing bosses? fast data terminals gethering?  fast exterminate?

Actually I am nor saying nor going to say that I disagree or agree if you don 't specify your example of speedrunning.

 

And yes, I know the vanguard helmet. But since Rhino and Frost are the slowest warframes an helmet that increases speed would bring him back to average speed rather than speedy. Nova is above average speed, which means nova has advantage above Rhino's (vanguard).

 

Also polarity? Forma is the solution. As players are likely to get an - polarity for flow anyways, which can be used for rush.

When I talk about polarity, I only look at the polarity of the cards that suit the warframe, rather than the polarity the warframe has by default. mods won't chance polarity, warframes can.

 

And about that null star. group too big to null star? I told you this before: wormhole. Or molecular prime which will make the null star activate the chain explosion. Since you want to use Rhino stomp and iron skin. I can use null star and Moleculair prime just &#! often.

Edited November 3, 2013 by AlmightyT0T

[Hammie]

If there are so many threads on a daily basis about Nova from so many people....you don't think there might be a problem with the Nova warframe? I suspect you're one of those Nova players people are complaining about, play Nova

90% of the time and don't want it nerfed.

Nerf on DE, nerf on......

 

Well then i guess you suspected wrong? :) My trinity is my main and has the most playtime out of all of my frames, im currently maining her or a desecration nekros for defense/survival and Rhino for most other maps. Though i do admit, i play Nova now and then (as i do with most of the other frames i play when it strikes my fancy). i do find it interesting all you can do is jump to conclusions about the other player in any of your posts regarding Nova, you're one of the prime examples (get it?) of ill-informed individuals i mentioned in my OP. I've posted quite a few points that contributes to your misconceptions, you?

 

"Waah hes not jumping on the whining bandwagon, he must be a FANBOY"

 

Way to wonk, you probably didn't read beyond that quoted portion amirite?

 

Even towards the lower part of my post i state her #4 will be nerfed and for good reason, come the armor changes. You were probably too busy foaming at the mouth over the notion someone actually disagrees with you within the first 2 lines of my post to notice.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Hammie

[ThePresident777]

........

 

So let’s put this all into perspective and this can be treated as the TLDR:

 

1. Players with large investments of time and gear into their warframes are able to join low level, inexperienced players in the same game/map/instance.
2. Most of the time, their reasons are for the rewards, such as mats, mods, and cores.
3. Energy is TOO plentiful, energy management is TOO easy. Powers are TOO spammable and most people choose to do so regardless of who disagrees because they are –able- to do so.
4. Something I haven’t iterated above, Novas are by far the most common of warframes, theres almost always 1 in every game, sometimes multiple. So naturally Nova is given the most exposure.

 

End result?

 

Everyone perceives Nova to be OP.

 

............

 

It is my hopes that the armor changes to enemies address this issue, and that high level players can no longer simply trounce low to mid level content

 

..........

-Hammie

 

Very well said.  But, I disagree on a number of points.  I think you understand the factions, their interactions, and their motivations well.

 

I do not agree that energy is too abundant and I have no issue with spammable powers.  As a matter of fact, I love unlimited energy and power spam.  I love excess.  I never tire of it.

 

I have a 500+ hour account.  I have all my old starter stuff.  I have put it all on and taken the mods out of it and run starter missons with started gear and it is no walk in the park.  .  I have a lot of mods, multiples at various levels.  I have kitted my "self" out with low and mid leve lloadouts and ran missions.  It's a grind.  I do not enjoy grinding some 50 times in a row to get what I want.  I welcome those higher level players to carry me through the grind.  Although, I wish I could do something other than be a dead weight in such situations.   What I don't like about the mixing(or fraternizing, nyuk nyuk nyuk) of high and low level players is when high level players rush to the objective and then extract leaving me to mop up the spawns and struggle to get the BPs.  But that is easy enough to solve with doors that require a group to open them.  That game has had them for months and recently DE started deploying them more.  The simple and effective fix was there all along.  But, DE didn't want ot use it.  Instead it would rather indulge nerfers it seems.

 

Despite the group open doors, you still might take issue with energy abundance.  Fine, that is your preferred play style.  But the game already has a solution to that which DE has chosen to not deploy effectively, low energy nightmare mode challenge.  DE locked it behind an RNG instead of allowing people such as yourself to access it as you please.

 

Name the problem as you see it and the solution is most likely already existent but poorly deployed.  There is no need for universal austerity.  All that will do is alienate players.  The solution to conflicting play styles is separate sand boxes.

 

Also, it is the nature of level systems for high level players to simply trounce low to mid level content.  The only way to change that is to not have a level system for the players, only the enemies, or, to bar high level players from playing low level maps.

[Hammie]

Very well said.  But, I disagree on a number of points.  I think you understand the factions, their interactions, and their motivations well.

 

I do not agree that energy is too abundant and I have no issue with spammable powers.  As a matter of fact, I love unlimited energy and power spam.  I love excess.  I never tire of it.

 

I have a 500+ hour account.  I have all my old starter stuff.  I have put it all on and taken the mods out of it and run starter missons with started gear and it is no walk in the park.  .  I have a lot of mods, multiples at various levels.  I have kitted my "self" out with low and mid leve lloadouts and ran missions.  It's a grind.  I do not enjoy grinding some 50 times in a row to get what I want.  I welcome those higher level players to carry me through the grind.  Although, I wish I could do something other than be a dead weight in such situations.   What I don't like about the mixing(or fraternizing, nyuk nyuk nyuk) of high and low level players is when high level players rush to the objective and then extract leaving me to mop up the spawns and struggle to get the BPs.  But that is easy enough to solve with doors that require a group to open them.  That game has had them for months and recently DE started deploying them more.  The simple and effective fix was there all along.  But, DE didn't want ot use it.  Instead it would rather indulge nerfers it seems.

 

Despite the group open doors, you still might take issue with energy abundance.  Fine, that is your preferred play style.  But the game already has a solution to that which DE has chosen to not deploy effectively, low energy nightmare mode challenge.  DE locked it behind an RNG instead of allowing people such as yourself to access it as you please.

 

Name the problem as you see it and the solution is most likely already existent but poorly deployed.  There is no need for universal austerity.  All that will do is alienate players.  The solution to conflicting play styles is separate sand boxes.

 

Also, it is the nature of level systems for high level players to simply trounce low to mid level content.  The only way to change that is to not have a level system for the players, only the enemies, or, to bar high level players from playing low level maps.

 

I agree with some of the points you made, however with how energy currently operates (despite DE's lack of intuitively challenging that aspect of the game), there may as well not be an energy system to begin with since its so abundant. I dont mind that you enjoy that kind of gameplay, but for me i just feel that it detracts from it somewhat, since we all know that spamming powers (especially ultimates) is most of the time more efficient than using your guns up until a certain breaking points in high-end combat. But again i respect your opinion, mine just differs but hey. :)

 

Personally i would have preferred an energy build-up bar which gradually increases energy based on a variety of criteria, from performing melee attack combos, to getting headshots, or even using your frame's #1 ability, and just remove energy orbs/energy siphon and energy resource-related mods entirely but that'd probably anger a lot of people lol. It would at least encourage the use of other things other than just spamming powers nonstop anyway.

 

In regards to high level players playing low level content, they can fix this by increasing the size of the carrot in higher level content, something to compensate for the increased difficulty, such as larger sums of mods, larger sums of resources, more credits, etc. removing the ability to group with lower levels wouldnt be needed (nor would it be a good thing really).

[ScorchedIce]

I don't think nova is OP, because what she does is proportional to the sacrifice in durability and defensive skills. 

 

That being said, I hate playing with nova players because decent operators tend to take the fun out of things by killing everything in the room. efficient, yes, but I might as well have just stayed at the dropoff, if you get my meaning. This is probably why a lot of people say Nova is OP, because her abilities make them very conscious of the fact that they can't kill things as fast as she does. 

 

Then again, I've made outkilling nova players into my personal challenge mode, so...

this! all of it!

[suraklin]

This thread started out by presenting itself as another thread to rehash a subject being discussed in two already active threads.

Therefore, argue with math:

 

MATH:

M.Prime explosions at its strongest does 1832 with max Blind Rage, and costs 39 mana with the 75% efficiency cap.

This is also reduced by armor and distance from the explosions, and only happens when the monster dies, so it can only happen once.

 

Pull at its strongest does 687 with Max Blind Rage, and costs 15 mana with 75% efficency cap.

It is unaffected by armor, is spammable, the damage is dealt upon cast, and ragdolls everything into worthlessness.

 

RAW (HYPOTHETICAL) DAMAGE COMPARISONS:

For damage potential comparisons you have to pretend M.Prime's damage component could happen more than once, and do the math across a given pool of Mana. If M.Primes damage component were spammable I would hope Nova wouldn't have such a large mana pool as it does now.  The fact it's not spammable is never really mentioned.

 

Across 150 mana, and doing the impossible - to use M.Prime to do damage multiple times in a row - you'd get 6961 armor mitigated damage out of spammed M. Primes (3.8 casts).

Across 150 mana, you get 6870 armor ignoring damage out of spammed Pulls. (10 casts).

 

Pull's ragdoll utility is arguably just as strong as M.Prime's double damage+speed debuff.  The big plus is that Pull still does its damage while M.Prime becomes a debuff only.