Nova Getting Nerfed!?

[-CM-Syein]

Nova is seriously op.

But iM NOT talking about ability to wipe whole map of 30lvl enemies with 1 shot. Most of the frames can do that.

Im talking about x2 aoe debuff it gives which simply renders any other support frame obsolete, also everytime someone dies everyone else in vicinity takes minimal dmg(now im talking about 100+ enemies, its at best 2% hp to heavy gunners and 20% to lancers) and pretty big slow.

Banshee 1145% dmg sonar isnt worth it to most of players due to a) armor/head not being armored b) requirement to actually aim at weakspot c) visibility of weakspot. Closest to being competetive actually.

Maxed rhino roar(114% increase) doesnt last as long and range on it is pretty limited.

Mag 200% dmg on single target isnt even worth mentioning until really high lvl AND being stacked with mprime on crucial target.

Nova dedicated role is not a nuker but support.

 

As for high lvl players playing with low lvl ones i would argue with OP. Its a good thing that new players have someone who they can look up to. Seeing a guy storming through level killing everything in its path with barely any effort actually makes me want to be that guy instead of quiting game.

You are the same as all the nerfer Nova people in here. Only stating damage instead of stating her other weakness such as def, survival, and solo capabilities. 

If you underestimate mag's dps then you still got a long way to go, my mag capable of dealing higher dps than Nova with same mod set up, both reaching lvl 30, though it's only against void or corpus faction, Neitherless, mag had a far more survival abilities than Nova. 

Who are you to decide what is Nova's role? She can be whatever role she is depend on her power. As far as I know, she is a pure damage frame. 

 

For high lvl playing in low lvl one, it's depend on opinions here, you actually don't know if players hate that storming person for stealing their kills or admire them. 

[Cwierz]

seem like your problem with Nova is different than "nerfer of wanting to nerf Nova" but more like a change to Nova, not nerf her. People don't want a pure dps frame, but that's Nova job. 

 

I already stated that M Prime slowing makes her way more surviveable then the average frame (they are outputting 1/2 damage). If nova is based on damage, then why does she have slowing? I don't see any resistance to removing the slowing aspect (but lol, if that happens novas will be dropping like flies because they don't have the side affect of it and I will deny reviving them, just because I am huge ****) but there appears to be a huge opposition to hearing the word nerf in relation to nova. 

>.>

You are the same as all the nerfer Nova people in here. Only stating damage instead of stating her other weakness such as def, survival, and solo capabilities.

 

If you underestimate mag's dps then you still got a long way to go

1.) Those don't exist, I told you why. You just can't ignore them for the sake of advancing your argument. Seriously, I have fully refuted that how many times in this thread alone? I would guess ~10 times, and you still wont acknowledge it. Cmon.

 

2.) In order for mag to have good damage being dealt the enemies need to be at a level greater than what is now 60. However, it is important to note that the higher enemy levels get the less balanced this game becomes, and we really need a endgame in the first place before anybody uses high levels as justification for anything on both sides of the argument.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Cwierz

[Xhominid]

@Cwierz

 

fundemental flaws in the form of-

 

Bulk means the total number of hits or duration of being attacked something can withstand. Nova on paper deffinetly seems so, but her high mobility, the slowing from M Prime, a small amount of surviveability being added by null star, and the nature of the game scaling means she has more bulk then most other nukers and a minority of non-nukers. This is a fact, and cannot be argued as if it isn't. I am sorry to say, but you were pretty wrong on this one. It might seem like I am talking out of my &#!, but I can assure you that what I am saying is true. I used to have a nova, and I have leveled many other frames. I actually go down more with other frames than nova simply because of that factor.

 

Here's the problem with that as I have a Nova on my side now and I have played with her plenty:

Nova still needs Energy to spam M.Prime, Null Star and needs to on top of that hope that Worm Hole works to her advantage EVERY SINGLE TIME in order to make the most out of herself to hit that level of broken you are talking about. The problem with that is that it's 100% theory as very little people use Nova on that level and definitely not consistently.

 

CC is crowd control. It is unrelated to damage. M Prime slowing enemy movement, and fire rate is its main form of utility/crowd control. She also has a damage amp that is arguably the easiest to use in the game. Sure, killing enemies before they attack is good, but I think you are really underestimating the potential of antimatter nuclear drop when paired with a vectis especially.

 

Let's ignore Anti Matter Drop isn't exactly the easiest thing to use on a constant basis while enemies are piling up on you or your teammates(who shouldn't have much difficulty taking them down) and focus on Molecular Prime. Molecular Prime is the ONLY CC move Nova has unlike say Mag, Varuban and even simple mod effects that can work with those characters as well. Remember, Nova has NO survival skills(Worm Hole is not a survival skill when it's costs is 2nd to M.Prime itself and it's pretty hard to use effectively) as well meaning her fast running speed and Molecular Prime is really the only things she got. So my bad for underestimating pretty much Nova's only get off me skill as even Null Star isnt all that effective when more than one enemy is near her.

 

Needing to lurk a bit more- I am a bit tired to say the least of repeating myself every post.

 

Also, Buffing other frames accomplishes nothing besides making us have the ability to fight mobs x level higher. We need a level cap near the 70-80 range and a more manageable power level. Buffing other frames will also most likely lead us down a redundant path of buffing, or something equally dumb. You can't move the baseline every time a questionable item is added to the game, it just doesn't work.

 

Then they can easily do that AND buff the other's to Nova's level at the same time. I keep telling you that they don't need her damage or CC to be as viable as you say she is, they just need to match her usefulness as Nova exceeds in being a damage Warframe while all the other classes are pretty much have very little uses past single instances(Ember, Frost, Volt) or have multiple uses but barely excel in a single area(Mag, Varuban, Oberon). Nova excels damn well because unlike Ember, Frost and Volt, her main ability is simply damage against EVERYONE. not just certain ones.

 

I can't be bothered to respond in full to it because about halfway through I stopped. There is some pretty basic stuff I don't know if you were unaware of or not, and I typically don't bother with posts like that. (sorry bout that)

 

Really, I want you to consider the implications of M Prime slowing enemies. Most players don't realize it, and I don't blame them because half of them don't know it exists in the first place.

 

My point still holds true though. I want you to actually consider if you go down as a nova more then your other frames, and if other novas go down in sustained firefights more than the other regular frames.

 

First post in a long time that addressed something and wasn't engrish.

 

I know of the implications of the slowdown of M.Prime, I have done and seen it plenty of times and it's damn useful, but then you have to remember what Nova is and what she brings to the table and you figure out that's what she needs to even stay alive.

 

 

 

I already stated that M Prime slowing makes her way more surviveable then the average frame (they are outputting 1/2 damage). If nova is based on damage, then why does she have slowing? I don't see any resistance to removing the slowing aspect (but lol, if that happens novas will be dropping like flies because they don't have the side affect of it and I will deny reviving them, just because I am huge ****) but there appears to be a huge opposition to hearing the word nerf in relation to nova. 

>.>

Because in the end, Nova doesn't need a nerf and nerfing that move of either it's slow or damage amp pretty much ruins the whole move like taking away Overheat and believe Accelerant is a good substitute.

Nova is a glass cannon damage frame just like Ember is, yet people got mad when she lost Overheat which kept her alive, so apparently this doesn't matter to Nova because?

1.) Those don't exist, I told you why. You just can't ignore them for the sake of advancing your argument. Seriously, I have fully refuted that how many times in this thread alone? I would guess ~10 times, and you still wont acknowledge it. Cmon.

 

2.) In order for mag to have good damage being dealt the enemies need to be at a level greater than what is now 60. However, it is important to note that the higher enemy levels get the less balanced this game becomes, and we really need a endgame in the first place before anybody uses high levels as justification for anything on both sides of the argument.

And Mag still has plenty of uses outside of damage, but apparently, that's all she has to offer...

Seriously I wonder what is the point of arguing all of this when people believe that damage is all that matters in this game...

 

Responses in Italics.

[DaveC]

seem like your problem with Nova is different than "nerfer of wanting to nerf Nova" but more like a change to Nova, not nerf her. People don't want a pure dps frame, but that's Nova job. 

I already stated many times in other post that the main problem people have with Nova is not because she is op, it's because she stole kills from others. 

Also, surely doing high level survival mission up to the point of 71 min like you said, you should realized that even m-prime can't chain explode all. You have to kill mobs by gun in order to explode them 1 by 1. So basically I realized such situation already happened at 30min point. 

It all depend on how Nova mod their frame. Some willing to give up all their survival abilities to enhance their ultimate up to the point of high level chain explode. That is effort of the player, not Nova herself capable of such ability. 

And in my early post, I already indicated how DE nerf it so that mobs doesn't go in hordes. this permanently weaken Nova's abilities of chain explode (this change can be easily notice in void survival mission and corpus survival run) 

Haven't see much change yet regarding Grineer faction. 

You really just read what you want to read, then twist it to suit your argument. You are not right about what I'm saying, you are trying to put your spin on what I am saying.

1. My point about Nova is....we play Warframe to participate and shoot stuff, not sit around as 3rd wheels for ages watching content go Boom while the Nova shows us how great Molecular Prime is. The fact that Nova would make it easier to go on more than 75m in survival is pointless, because none of us want to watch stuff go Boom for 30 or 40 minutes in the hope that the Nova will want to stay. Usually, when the going gets tough, the Nova gets going and leaves. This is all about participation, not about waiting until the 30 minute mark before stuff stops going boom, or do you really think we all enjoy this for 30m!

2. Now we have the weekly kills board, it's going to be even worse, this will actively encourage Nova players to stay while MP is making everything go boom and leave once it isn't. This is because this maximizes their kills for time spent playing. It's also why a lot of Novas are joining and leaving once MP is ineffective now, to try and get in that top 100 list. you didn't even mention this, is it because you don't think this behavior will happen?

3. One of the immediate changes DE should do..to perhaps change the behaviors of the Nova players is to assign the kills made using MP evenly across the team. You don't mention this, is it because you don't want this or don't support this?

4. Now the above won't stop them spamming it, it will still be unfun for others, but it might quell some of the bad behaviors that will arise from them trying to get on the kills leader board each week. Really though, MP shouldn't be able to be recast until the previous one has worn off or all the enemies affected are killed. Sure DE may want to reduce the duration of the effect if this was the case. At the moment Novas simply wormhole or rush across the map, spamming prime, until everything that's spawned is lit up....this surely cant be right. Again you make no mention of this, why, do you really think prime should be able to be recast before it has worn off?

5. Here are a few other suggestions for rebalancing prime (all in conjunction with Kills from prime being spread 25% across the team). These are either/or suggestions

(a) Reduce primes AOE

(b) Give prime a minimum energy to cast of 70

© when the first chain reaction explosions has completed (this can be 1 or many enemies), end the effect of prime, and only then can it be recast.

(d) Limit the explosion effect to 12-15 nearest enemies (nova only credited for those kills), other enemies are only debuffed and slowed and any kills don't go to Nova unless she kills them herself. MP can't be recast until those 15 enemies are killed

Why don't you specifically address points, instead of typing what you "think" I mean. Or is any rebuttal simply going to ignore or twist anything I have said to make more points you "think" I am making or make fallacious arguments you wish to make.

[Davoodoo]

You are the same as all the nerfer Nova people in here. Only stating damage instead of stating her other weakness such as def, survival, and solo capabilities. 

If you underestimate mag's dps then you still got a long way to go, my mag capable of dealing higher dps than Nova with same mod set up, both reaching lvl 30, though it's only against void or corpus faction, Neitherless, mag had a far more survival abilities than Nova. 

Who are you to decide what is Nova's role? She can be whatever role she is depend on her power. As far as I know, she is a pure damage frame. 

 

For high lvl playing in low lvl one, it's depend on opinions here, you actually don't know if players hate that storming person for stealing their kills or admire them. 

I still said that its fine for nova to keep her nukes but x2 dmg aoe debuff with slow is simply op. Quadruple  dmg on explosions but remove x2 dmg and it will still be fine by me.

As for her dedicated role, never seen nova actually using her 1st and 2nd ability on high lvl voids or survivals. Sometimes wormhole for mobility sure. But reason most ppl bring nova is because dmg debuff on mprime. Its not decided by me i simply comment on what i see.

 

Reason to nerf overall is same as with frost 100% dependency on that debuff. Cause theres simply nothing better.

 

Instead of removing debuff from nova completely i suggest to move it to antimatter drop and let it scale depending on how much dmg it will absorb before exploding. It will result in more powerful debuff but requiring to aim at ball. That should bring it in line with all other dmg increases.

[ThePresident777]

My point about Nova is....we play Warframe to participate and shoot stuff, not sit around as 3rd wheels for ages watching content go Boom while the Nova shows us how great Molecular Prime is. The fact that Nova would make it easier to go on more than 75m in survival is pointless, because none of us want to watch stuff go Boom for 30 or 40 minutes in the hope that the Nova will want to stay. Usually, when the going gets tough, the Nova gets going and leaves.

Now we have the weekly kills board, it's going to be even worse, this will actively encourage Nova players to stay while MP is making everything go boom and leave once it isn't. This is because this maximizes their kills for time spent playing. It's also why a lot of Novas are joining and leaving once MP is ineffective now, to try and get in that top 100 list.

Now unfortunately even the simplest of changes to MP does not seem palatable to Nova players, even the fact that 1 prime can be spammed straight after another and before the previous one has worn off (unlike the majority of Ultis) seems to be fine with Nova players. One of the immediate changes DE should do..to perhaps change the behaviors of the Nova players is to assign the kills made using MP evenly across the team.

Now the above won't stop them spamming it, it will still be unfun for others, but it might quell some of the bad behaviours that will arise from them trying to get on the kills leader board each week.

Really though, MP shouldn't be able to be recast until the previous one has worn off or all the enemies affected are killed. Sure DE may want to reduce the duration of the effect if this was the case. At the moment Novas simply wormhole or rush across the map, spamming prime, until everything that's spawned is lit up....this surely cant be right.

 

So, your point is that you're playing a nuke spamming game and hating it. 

 

Don't just single out Mprime.  Other nukes do the same thing.  Effectiveness is besides the point.  I've played matches without a Nova too, and if it's not Nova, it's another Warframe spamming nukes.  Again, effectiveness is besides the point, because other Warframes do it too.  It doesn't matter if they are spamming nukes at level 1 or level 1000.  It's the same game play.  And, you hate it.

 

You see a nuke spamming game.  Hate the spam.  Play the game anyway.  Then go to forums to complain about spam.

 

I see a nuke spamming game.  Love the spam.  Play the game and spend over $150 on it.  Then I go to forums and see people like you trying to waste my money.

 

Dude, what you are doing here is the equivalent of saying that the artillery is ruining your deer hunting on the shores of Omaha beech on the day of the D-Day invasion.  You're playing the wrong game.  Maybe you would like Shoot Mania, or Planet Side2, or something else without nukes, for free.  It's only logical.

 

EDIT:  I do agree with you that DE should assign the kills made using MP evenly across the team. 

 

Warframe is advertised as a COOP game.  So, I support removing all competive elements OR making them a CHOICE, a separete game mode or set of missions or some other mechanism designed for competiion that players can CHOOSE instead of doing a mish mash of competition and coop.  Putting two opposing mechnisms together is just asking for trouble because it will draw opposing players together like wolves and tigers at a carcass.

 

Edited January 8, 2014 by ThePresident777

[DaveC]

So, your point is that you're playing a nuke spamming game and hating it. 

 

Don't just single out Mprime.  Other nukes do the same thing.  Effectiveness is besides the point.  I've played matches without a Nova too, and if it's not Nova, it's another Warframe spamming nukes.  Again, effectiveness is besides the point, because other Warframes do it too.  It doesn't matter if they are spamming nukes at level 1 or level 1000.  It's the same game play.  And, you hate it.

I am singling out the single ability that makes Nova unbalanced compared to other frames....for all the reasons that have been stated time and time again. I am also suggesting some possible options of bringing it back into balance and to stop making the first 20 waves of defense or 25m of survival "un fun" for other people.

Be assured other Nuke abilities simply don't do the same things as MP and I cannot believe that you don't know this!

Edited January 8, 2014 by DaveC

[Thaumatos]

Your first point.

This week we went on a Survival, with no Nova on the team, I was ranking my primary and secondary weapons as they were rank 0. I was only using my Melee weapon (which was very effective in late game). We managed this weeks high score on Pluto - Paulus. We had no problem with No nova, in fact there was a comment made that we were glad we didn't have one. We stopped at about 71m because the host had a bad gfx card (and he didn't want to risk a crash), otherwise we would have gone on further. It was also a PUG game nothing arranged, so not an optimum team.....so No we didn't miss Nova, not one little bit.

Your second point, when Nova was released we didn't have damage 2.0 and level 90 enemies were very easy to kill. The old level 90 is roughly equivalent to a level 18-20 today. A level 90 today is the equivalent of a level 450 in the old days.

Be under no illusions, a LOT of players I know...don't miss Nova at all in missions!!!

 

Trinity?

[Thaumatos]

So, your point is that you're playing a nuke spamming game and hating it. 

 

 

Nothing nukes like mprime.  It's like comparing a MOAB to a nuclear warhead.  Both inflict massive damage, no doubt, but one of them is infinitely more destructive.

 

Don't just single out Mprime.  Other nukes do the same thing.  Effectiveness is besides the point.  I've played matches without a Nova too, and if it's not Nova, it's another Warframe spamming nukes.  Again, effectiveness is besides the point, because other Warframes do it too.  It doesn't matter if they are spamming nukes at level 1 or level 1000.  It's the same game play.  And, you hate it.

 

See above.  You're citing personal experiences with no evidence of functionality.  Other AoE abilities apply their damage once per use.  Mprime applies its damage based on the number of targets within a short radius of other targets.  It's, as I've said, infinitely more destructive.  Just look at the way the skill functions and use that big, sexy human brain of yours.  It isn't hard to figure out.

 

 

You see a nuke spamming game.  Hate the spam.  Play the game anyway.  Then go to forums to complain about spam.

 

I see a nuke spamming game.  Love the spam.  Play the game and spend over $150 on it.  Then I go to forums and see people like you trying to waste my money.

All changes are based off of feedback, both good and bad.  Your point is moot.  Just because you spent money on your gameplay doesn't legitimize your points any further than personal opinion.

 

 

Dude, what you are doing here is the equivalent of saying that the artillery is ruining your deer hunting on the shores of Omaha beech on the day of the D-Day invasion.  You're playing the wrong game.  Maybe you would like Shoot Mania, or Planet Side2, or something else without nukes, for free.  It's only logical.

 

No what he's doing, since we're going there, is the equivalent of calling out one side on its use of a weapon type (say nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons) that has been agreed to by both sides not to be used.  In this instance, DE would have written the agreement.  DE balances their game and they've introduced something that is hurting that balance.

 

 

EDIT:  I do agree with you that DE should assign the kills made using MP evenly across the team. 

 

Warframe is advertised as a COOP game.  So, I support removing all competive elements OR making them a CHOICE, a separete game mode or set of missions or some other mechanism designed for competiion that players can CHOOSE instead of doing a mish mash of competition and coop.  Putting two opposing mechnisms together is just asking for trouble because it will draw opposing players together like wolves and tigers at a carcass.

 

 

After all that arguing that Nova's nuke isn't any different than any others, you're going to spread Nova's mprime kills amongst the group?  Why?  According to you, mprime is no different than any other nuke skill.  Why should Nova not be able to get her own kill count?  Is it because, deep down, you realize that Nova is far more powerful than all other frames when it comes to killing targets?

 

Logically, if they did this to Nova, they'd have to do it to all kills made during the game by frame abilities.

 

Or they could just balance Nova....

 

Look you've come out on the wrong side of this argument.  Mprime is OP and that's that.  You're slightly admitting it here by contradicting yourself.

[ThePresident777]

I am singling out the single ability that makes Nova unbalanced compared to other frames....for all the reasons that have been stated time and time again. I am also suggesting some possible options of bringing it back into balance and to stop making the first 20 waves of defense or 25m of survival "un fun" for other people.

Be assured other Nuke abilities simply don't do the same things as MP and I cannot believe that you don't know this!

 

It's entirely a matter of opinion as to wether something is OP or not.  I could just as easily say that Mprime is perfect and that everything else is underpowered.  X has A DPS and Y has B DPS and X is greater than Y are just facts, not opinions.  X is OP or Y is UP are opinions.  You can say power creep bad but that is just an opinion too.  I could say power seep is bad.  It's an opinion.

 

You have been attempting in this thread to raise your opinion above the level of opinion by claiming that Mprime negatively impacts your ability to level weapons.  But, the best argument you can make there is a matter of degree because all nukes .... are nukes, regardless of which is most or least effective.  Your argument implies a preferance for leveling weapons because if nukes were the equivalent of weapons in terms of DPS either weapons would be nukes or nukes would not be nukes.  So, in short, you hate nukes and the spammy kinds worst of all.  You could claim that you hate only the spammy nukes, but, that does not really contradict my post.  Warframe is and has always been a spammy nuke game.  My point still stands, perhaps, I just mearly rephrase it.  But, I think that is not neccessary.  I think it is valid as I originally stated it it.

 

Dude, what you are doing here is the equivalent of saying that the artillery is ruining your deer hunting on the shores of Omaha beech on the day of the D-Day invasion. You're playing the wrong game. Maybe you would like Shoot Mania, or Planet Side2, or something else without nukes, for free. It's only logical.

 

Now, I agree with you that if Mprime distirbuted kills equally that your XP problem would be solved.  And, I think it would be in keeping with the game being advertised as a COOP game.  XP distributions and score boards are not coop features.  They are competive features.  But, I am not closed minded.  It would not bother me if Warframe had competive features that are a CHOICE, not something forced on all players.  Once you force competive features on all players, then you can't say the game is a coop game.  It's something else, possibly a hybrid.  Not sure what the correct term would be.

 

In fact, doing this to all nukes would help you with your problem because of the nature of nukes.  Nuke DPS > weapons DPS by nature.  Now, Warframe without Spammy Nukes is not Warframe, it's Nerframe.  It's a loss of a basic feature, one that drew in players like me.

 

Also, you are in error when you say that you are stopping the first 20 waves of defense or 25m of survival being "un fun" for other people.  Your ideas would only achieve this for some people.  Others do not mind, even enjoy, that which you hate.  So, again, the solution to your problem is a set of missions to your liking, not forcing everyone to play your way.

 

Edited January 8, 2014 by ThePresident777

[DaveC]

It's pointless arguing with people who play Nova most of the time. If DE want to check what frames are Balanced and what are not, or what frames need a buff...all they have to do is look through the stats.

Trouble is all the whiners every time there's a change make DE frightened of upsetting the community. I suspect that because SO many people play Nova regularly and a lot of those have formad her 3 or 4 times.....DE are quite reluctant to balance the frame, even though it badly needs it. When almost every game you see 1 or 2 Novas, and I do mean almost every game. There has to be a problem.

There is some basic math we can all do for ourselves if we want to: There are 17 Warframes, excluding prime versions, because their essentially duplicates..If Warframes were chosen equally by players because they all had pros and cons and there wasn't a BEST frame by far, then you would expect to see a Nova in a team of 4 about 23% of the time. Now I'm being generous here, because if I didn't ignore the fact that Nova isn't one of the 3 starter frames people are forced to play....the percentage of time you see a Nova would be even lower at be around 20%, or 1 in 5 games.

This being the case i should only see a Nova in a game about 1 in every 4 games, or less....but I don't and neither do any of my friends. You see almost 1 per game and often 2. This means Nova is played 4 or 5 X more often than any other frame.. Even worse, this is across all gametypes. logic dictates that there must be a reason for this and that reason is that it's so much better than any other frame.

Oh and yes I think all warframe ability kills should have XP and kills distributed evenly across the team, after all the team makes it possible,

Edited January 8, 2014 by DaveC

[ThePresident777]

It's pointless arguing with people who play Nova most of the time. If DE want to check what frames are Balanced and what are not, or what frames need a buff...all they have to do is look through the stats.

Trouble is all the whiners every time there's a change make DE frightened of upsetting the community. I suspect that because SO many people play Nova regularly and a lot of those have formad her 3 or 4 times.....DE are quite reluctant to balance the frame, even though it badly needs it. When almost every game you see 1 or 2 Novas, and I do mean almost every game. There has to be a problem.

There is some basic math we can all do for ourselves if we want to: There are 17 Warframes, excluding prime versions, because their essentially duplicates..If Warframes were chosen equally by players because they all had pros and cons and there wasn't a BEST frame by far, then you would expect to see a Nova in a team of 4 about 23% of the time. Now I'm being generous here, because if I didn't ignore the fact that Nova isn't one of the 3 starter frames people are forced to play....the percentage of time you see a Nova would be even lower at be around 20%, or 1 in 5 games.

This being the case i should only see a Nova in a game about 1 in every 4 games, or less....but I don't and neither do any of my friends. You see almost 1 per game and often 2. This means Nova is played 4 or 5 X more often than any other frame.. Even worse, this is across all gametypes. logic dictates that there must be a reason for this and that reason is that it's so much better than any other frame.

 

That's ultra simplistic and utterly boring.

Edited January 8, 2014 by ThePresident777

[DaveC]

That's ultra simplistic and utterly boring.

Truth hurts doesn't it!

[Cwierz]

I have seen way to many people just straight up ignore things in this thread, and the other side is turning into a house fire (flamin).

 

As for that one person who I can't scroll up to see, The slowing aspect of M Prime directly increases her surviveability, and coupled with her mobility it makes a survivability increase x 2 for all intensive purposes. Of course, there are other frames that can become immortal or near-immortal, but that is beside the point. There really isn't any justification for nova being a glass cannon, sure she might have -75 base shields, but her survivability is doubled by a relatively spam-my ability, with the largest range. 

 

 

That's ultra simplistic and utterly boring.

I don't think you understand something. Your fun is completely unrelated to balance. It doesn't matter if you enjoy nova, she needs to be balanced regardless. You can still enjoy her after she is balanced, stop pretending like it isn't so.

[ThePresident777]

Truth hurts doesn't it!

 

Your opinion is not truth.

Edited January 9, 2014 by ThePresident777

[ThePresident777]

I have seen way to many people just straight up ignore things in this thread, and the other side is turning into a house fire (flamin).

 

As for that one person who I can't scroll up to see, The slowing aspect of M Prime directly increases her surviveability, and coupled with her mobility it makes a survivability increase x 2 for all intensive purposes. Of course, there are other frames that can become immortal or near-immortal, but that is beside the point. There really isn't any justification for nova being a glass cannon, sure she might have -75 base shields, but her survivability is doubled by a relatively spam-my ability, with the largest range. 

 

 

I don't think you understand something. Your fun is completely unrelated to balance. It doesn't matter if you enjoy nova, she needs to be balanced regardless. You can still enjoy her after she is balanced, stop pretending like it isn't so.

 

Yes, you continue to ignore the fact that you are arguing from opinion which no one has to accept for any reason.  You're premise is pure bias.  So the result is pure bias.  It's no better than anyone else's bias.  Your bias isn't so special that it should dominate the game.  Learn to share, especially since others are keeping this game alive which you take advantage of.

 

If Nova with 75 shields has double survivability via Mprime, then so do all the other warframes who play with her, and possibly more if they have higher shields than her.  So, it's not an advantage specific to her.  It's a shared advantage so you can't say it makes her more powerful than another warframe on account of it.  We are talking about the coop side of the game here, not PvP.

 

I have stated previously that balance is not important, to me.  It interferes with my fun and is a waste of time and opportunity.  Stop pretending that your boring ideas and POV are enjoyable to me.  It ruins what little credibility someone might see in your point of view.

[-CM-Syein]

I already stated that M Prime slowing makes her way more surviveable then the average frame (they are outputting 1/2 damage). If nova is based on damage, then why does she have slowing? I don't see any resistance to removing the slowing aspect (but lol, if that happens novas will be dropping like flies because they don't have the side affect of it and I will deny reviving them, just because I am huge ****) but there appears to be a huge opposition to hearing the word nerf in relation to nova. 

>.>

1.) Those don't exist, I told you why. You just can't ignore them for the sake of advancing your argument. Seriously, I have fully refuted that how many times in this thread alone? I would guess ~10 times, and you still wont acknowledge it. Cmon.

 

2.) In order for mag to have good damage being dealt the enemies need to be at a level greater than what is now 60. However, it is important to note that the higher enemy levels get the less balanced this game becomes, and we really need a endgame in the first place before anybody uses high levels as justification for anything on both sides of the argument.

Mag dps is very strong, not necessary lvl 60 against corpus and void faction, I only use shield polarize on mag and rarely use crush. Also, I used mag the most, and I know her set up as well as Nova set up. 

Also may I also state that Nova other 3 skills are almost useless as of currently. M-prime is the only thing she could use. 

The other average frame capable of using survival skill with less energy than Nova. Let say, if the slowness in m-prime is being put on her other 3 skills instead of her 4 skill, then yes she would be op. Because whenever she want to survival, she could just use slowness without double dps, costing less energy. 

Doesn't change the fact that her shield health armor are averagely the weakest. 

I already stated my points regarding Nova. And I could toss your words back to you. 

[-CM-Syein]

It's pointless arguing with people who play Nova most of the time. If DE want to check what frames are Balanced and what are not, or what frames need a buff...all they have to do is look through the stats.

Trouble is all the whiners every time there's a change make DE frightened of upsetting the community. I suspect that because SO many people play Nova regularly and a lot of those have formad her 3 or 4 times.....DE are quite reluctant to balance the frame, even though it badly needs it. When almost every game you see 1 or 2 Novas, and I do mean almost every game. There has to be a problem.

There is some basic math we can all do for ourselves if we want to: There are 17 Warframes, excluding prime versions, because their essentially duplicates..If Warframes were chosen equally by players because they all had pros and cons and there wasn't a BEST frame by far, then you would expect to see a Nova in a team of 4 about 23% of the time. Now I'm being generous here, because if I didn't ignore the fact that Nova isn't one of the 3 starter frames people are forced to play....the percentage of time you see a Nova would be even lower at be around 20%, or 1 in 5 games.

This being the case i should only see a Nova in a game about 1 in every 4 games, or less....but I don't and neither do any of my friends. You see almost 1 per game and often 2. This means Nova is played 4 or 5 X more often than any other frame.. Even worse, this is across all gametypes. logic dictates that there must be a reason for this and that reason is that it's so much better than any other frame.

Oh and yes I think all warframe ability kills should have XP and kills distributed evenly across the team, after all the team makes it possible,

Not only do they need to look through the stat, they need to play the frames in various situation as well, and apparently, they know what they doing for now. Except buffing the other weak frames. 

You see 1 nova per game? lol really, my most seen frame is Rhino, and what? Rhino doesn't had that same dps as Nova, so this just prove that being high dps doesn't necessary mean the most high. 

Also, you don't considered the facts that why many people doesn't play other frame because they weak? 

Also, Trinity is considered to be on par with Rhino and Nova, why many doesn't play her either? 

 

"it pointless to argue with people who play Nova most of the time" ,sorry to broke it for you, mag is my most play frame. 

Also, forma a frame mean a frame is stronger, there are people who forma frame sacrificing their shield and health just for the sake of power strength, they deserve it. 

[-CM-Syein]

You really just read what you want to read, then twist it to suit your argument. You are not right about what I'm saying, you are trying to put your spin on what I am saying.

1. My point about Nova is....we play Warframe to participate and shoot stuff, not sit around as 3rd wheels for ages watching content go Boom while the Nova shows us how great Molecular Prime is. The fact that Nova would make it easier to go on more than 75m in survival is pointless, because none of us want to watch stuff go Boom for 30 or 40 minutes in the hope that the Nova will want to stay. Usually, when the going gets tough, the Nova gets going and leaves. This is all about participation, not about waiting until the 30 minute mark before stuff stops going boom, or do you really think we all enjoy this for 30m!

2. Now we have the weekly kills board, it's going to be even worse, this will actively encourage Nova players to stay while MP is making everything go boom and leave once it isn't. This is because this maximizes their kills for time spent playing. It's also why a lot of Novas are joining and leaving once MP is ineffective now, to try and get in that top 100 list. you didn't even mention this, is it because you don't think this behavior will happen?

3. One of the immediate changes DE should do..to perhaps change the behaviors of the Nova players is to assign the kills made using MP evenly across the team. You don't mention this, is it because you don't want this or don't support this?

4. Now the above won't stop them spamming it, it will still be unfun for others, but it might quell some of the bad behaviors that will arise from them trying to get on the kills leader board each week. Really though, MP shouldn't be able to be recast until the previous one has worn off or all the enemies affected are killed. Sure DE may want to reduce the duration of the effect if this was the case. At the moment Novas simply wormhole or rush across the map, spamming prime, until everything that's spawned is lit up....this surely cant be right. Again you make no mention of this, why, do you really think prime should be able to be recast before it has worn off?

5. Here are a few other suggestions for rebalancing prime (all in conjunction with Kills from prime being spread 25% across the team). These are either/or suggestions

(a) Reduce primes AOE

(b) Give prime a minimum energy to cast of 70

© when the first chain reaction explosions has completed (this can be 1 or many enemies), end the effect of prime, and only then can it be recast.

(d) Limit the explosion effect to 12-15 nearest enemies (nova only credited for those kills), other enemies are only debuffed and slowed and any kills don't go to Nova unless she kills them herself. MP can't be recast until those 15 enemies are killed

Why don't you specifically address points, instead of typing what you "think" I mean. Or is any rebuttal simply going to ignore or twist anything I have said to make more points you "think" I am making or make fallacious arguments you wish to make.

-Just to remind you, aoe already reduce when DE nerf it so that mobs doesn't go in hordes. 

If you use a Nova and aoe, you will still see some mobs or so that still alive, explosion doesn't completely wipe out all mobs. 

 

-Nova alone doesn't make it easier to go for 75min survival, other frames contributed a lot as well. A team of 4 Novas in survival won't last long compared to a team of 4 different frames in survival. You seem to play survival a lot, you should know this. And again, Nova role is dps. Likewise, do you think player enjoy it when a Trinity spamming immortality on players for the whole x times? It's just a matter of different roles. 

 

-Behavior of Nova players? ok, blame the players not the frame I like that. 

So the problem you have with Nova is because she kills more than other players not because she op in dps. I read your post properly and what you complain is Nova spamming m-prime, killing mobs and won't let other players share the kills. 

The things is, no matter how many mobs Nova killed, she can't kill all. It impossible to do so. 

 

-Your points about limiting Nova power, should be apply to every ult skill that is spammable to other. When a greater power is being limit, it took more disadvantage than weaker powers that being limit. 

[Xhominid]

It's pointless arguing with people who play Nova most of the time. If DE want to check what frames are Balanced and what are not, or what frames need a buff...all they have to do is look through the stats.

Stop acting like you know better and maybe people will actually listen to you...

Trouble is all the whiners every time there's a change make DE frightened of upsetting the community. I suspect that because SO many people play Nova regularly and a lot of those have formad her 3 or 4 times.....DE are quite reluctant to balance the frame, even though it badly needs it. When almost every game you see 1 or 2 Novas, and I do mean almost every game. There has to be a problem.

That's the biggest train of logic I have ever seen. If DE wants to nerf Nova, there's absolutely nothing the community can do about it, but at the same time, if DE decideds Nova is fine as is(which is funny since you believe DE must bow to everything the community says at everything), there's nothing we can do about it. And once again, Nova doesn't need balancing at all and the examples you give can pretty much work for every other frame.

There is some basic math we can all do for ourselves if we want to: There are 17 Warframes, excluding prime versions, because their essentially duplicates..If Warframes were chosen equally by players because they all had pros and cons and there wasn't a BEST frame by far, then you would expect to see a Nova in a team of 4 about 23% of the time. Now I'm being generous here, because if I didn't ignore the fact that Nova isn't one of the 3 starter frames people are forced to play....the percentage of time you see a Nova would be even lower at be around 20%, or 1 in 5 games.

You pull those statistics out of your &#!? I played plenty in the past week and I don't see Nova being used anywhere near as often as you suggest nor is she asked for in the main places you believe she is.

This being the case i should only see a Nova in a game about 1 in every 4 games, or less....but I don't and neither do any of my friends. You see almost 1 per game and often 2. This means Nova is played 4 or 5 X more often than any other frame.. Even worse, this is across all gametypes. logic dictates that there must be a reason for this and that reason is that it's so much better than any other frame.

Your points make no freaking sense. Just because you and your friends see a Nova every 1 to 2 games(which doesn't say alot since I see plenty of Rhino at the same rate) doesn't mean people play her because she's overpowered, maybe some of them just like PLAYING HER.

Oh and yes I think all warframe ability kills should have XP and kills distributed evenly across the team, after all the team makes it possible,

Funny because I don't lose any XP everytime I play with a Nova, I only lose XP if people kill the enemies while I'm not near them

 

Answers in bold.

[DaveC]

Answers in bold.

Yeah didn't bother reading them after the first answer

[ThePresident777]

2. Now we have the weekly kills board, it's going to be even worse, this will actively encourage Nova players to stay while MP is making everything go boom and leave once it isn't. This is because this maximizes their kills for time spent playing. It's also why a lot of Novas are joining and leaving once MP is ineffective now, to try and get in that top 100 list. you didn't even mention this, is it because you don't think this behavior will happen?

 

 

I don't care about learboards and score boards.  Those things are competitive and Warframe is advertised as a coop game.

[Cwierz]

Mag dps is very strong, not necessary lvl 60 against corpus and void faction, I only use shield polarize on mag and rarely use crush. Also, I used mag the most, and I know her set up as well as Nova set up. 

Also may I also state that Nova other 3 skills are almost useless as of currently. M-prime is the only thing she could use. 

The other average frame capable of using survival skill with less energy than Nova. Let say, if the slowness in m-prime is being put on her other 3 skills instead of her 4 skill, then yes she would be op. Because whenever she want to survival, she could just use slowness without double dps, costing less energy. 

Doesn't change the fact that her shield health armor are averagely the weakest. 

I already stated my points regarding Nova. And I could toss your words back to you. 

I cannot dechiper half of this. This isn't me being a grammar nazi, but I literally cannot read through this correctly. You need to work on english if it isn't your first language... seriously.

 

I highlighted when I could understand and its all I am going to respond to.

 

25 energy out of a ~400 energy pool, do you really believe that she is going to run out of energy ever? Especially with orbs and siphon. Energy management does not exist for nova, that is a pretty dumb argument.

 

Actually, vauban  banshee, ember, and nyx all have less. Don't straight up lie. Also, don't respond with bullS#&$ like "they have survivability skills!!1!", because you obviously refuse to consider novas.

[Zoid25]

TL;DR

[ThePresident777]

I cannot dechiper half of this. This isn't me being a grammar nazi, but I literally cannot read through this correctly. You need to work on english if it isn't your first language... seriously.

 

I highlighted when I could understand and its all I am going to respond to.

 

25 energy out of a ~400 energy pool, do you really believe that she is going to run out of energy ever? Especially with orbs and siphon. Energy management does not exist for nova, that is a pretty dumb argument.

 

Actually, vauban  banshee, ember, and nyx all have less. Don't straight up lie. Also, don't respond with bullS#&$ like "they have survivability skills!!1!", because you obviously refuse to consider novas.

 

Ultra rare mods are no reason to nerf anything other than the ultra rare mods.

 

And, again, If Nova with 75 shields has double survivability via Mprime, then so do all the other warframes who play with her, and possibly more if they have higher shields than her. So, it's not an advantage specific to her. It's a shared advantage so you can't say it makes her more powerful than another warframe on account of it. We are talking about the coop side of the game here, not PvP.

Edited January 9, 2014 by ThePresident777