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Crafting timers are kinda old school


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25 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

It's designed this way so that people don't farm everything in one day and get bored of the game.

Same reason why there are caps to syndicate standing.

I can't believe people are still using this excuse, The game has tons of RNG elements, Its impossible to "FARM EVERYTHING" rightnow, why is this still a thing ????

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1 minute ago, MouadSaqui said:

Its making new players lose interest instead of playing the game, nobody like to wait for 3 days to play the warframe they want, I think DE should reduce crafting time by at least 50%, to make things less tedious for players

🤔 Maybe new players could have a once-granted coupon item that grants them reduced crafting time for their first or so new Warframe

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17 minutes ago, MouadSaqui said:

Its making new players lose interest instead of playing the game, nobody like to wait for 3 days to play the warframe they want, I think DE should reduce crafting time by at least 50%, to make things less tedious for players

we'd all like it, but if that artificially boosted the numbers more, the game would already be doing it.
games as a service have one primary goal on a daily and weekly basis - artificially inflate your numbers as much as possible. the biggest you inflate it, the better your game is.

 

note the last sentence in that Post you Quoted.

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4 hours ago, MouadSaqui said:

Its making new players lose interest instead of playing the game, nobody like to wait for 3 days to play the warframe they want, I think DE should reduce crafting time by at least 50%, to make things less tedious for players

1/6th or have the frame itself be a minute and the parts can still take 12h

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4 hours ago, taiiat said:

we'd all like it, but if that artificially boosted the numbers more, the game would already be doing it.
games as a service have one primary goal on a daily and weekly basis - artificially inflate your numbers as much as possible. the biggest you inflate it, the better your game is.

 

note the last sentence in that Post you Quoted.

Umm that's not how business analytics work. They would most likely run a risk assessment and determine that they can continue to make money from current players with little growth rather than improve awful systems for a chance of improved community. 

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4 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

It's designed this way so that people don't farm everything in one day and get bored of the game.

Same reason why there are caps to syndicate standing.

That's a nonsense reason, heck they've started to use tokens in places like Deimos which essentially let you stockpile standing. You couldn't farm everything in one day if you wanted to and even if you could give gating wouldn't stop it as you can still craft an unlimited number of things at the same time.

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6 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

It's also designed to play the long game. The logic is, crafting times keep us logging in tomorrow, the day after, next week (to claim the stuff we crafted). The more we log in day after day, the more likely we are to buy platinum

That's predatory sand shouldn't exist in game. It's literally been running the game since it came out.

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I feel like the timers are needed to create regular players. DE wants to know you'll be back later this week. Like a cell phone contract.

BTW your posts might be easier to appreciate if you used the big + button next to the Quote button, it allows you to multiquote.

8 minutes ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

Umm that's not how business analytics work. They would most likely run a risk assessment and determine that they can continue to make money from current players with little growth rather than improve awful systems for a chance of improved community. 

 

6 minutes ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

That's a nonsense reason, heck they've started to use tokens in places like Deimos which essentially let you stockpile standing. You couldn't farm everything in one day if you wanted to and even if you could give gating wouldn't stop it as you can still craft an unlimited number of things at the same time.

 

3 minutes ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

That's predatory sand shouldn't exist in game. It's literally been running the game since it came out.

Like this.

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16 minutes ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

That's predatory sand shouldn't exist in game. It's literally been running the game since it came out.

I'm not sure I agree. Simply having a business model isn't predatory. I know that where one draws the line from "OK" and "predatory" is at least partly subjective, but I'm not going to draw it here. DE encourages occasional sales from repeat customers, not "whale hunting", and "play every day" is a component of both

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In my experience the timers have always been a non-issue though I'm the type who cares more for delayed gratification than instant, even if that isn't the goal of the timers the idea of needing to wait doesn't bother me. While those I've known/encountered who do take issue are the types to dislike games for not having enough instant gratification.

 

And while it's sort of sidestepping the issue if new players get put off by crafting times then I can't imagine they would stick around the game for long. There are just a lot of other time gates outside of the foundry that either take effort to overcome or require waiting months/years for and if three days is a deal breaker then they're in for a rough time.

Though it isn't like they really lock out new players from being able to progress anyways. Even if they spend a day grinding out a boss only to then need to wait 3.5 days to get their frame every single resource and mod dropped from those runs are necessary for their progression and will only be a drop in the bucket of what they need. Just consider how many Orokin Cells are needed to craft things and their rarity while all bosses have a decent chance at dropping them. More or less all players I've known have gone through the boss grind for Cells alone. So those three days can be spent gathering more blueprints, parts, and resources to begin the next cycle of crafting and they can do it with the last batch of things they finished.

In the end it is there for padding and in line with the "pay for convenience" monetization scheme of the game. But I can't say it's egregious nor enough of a road block to warrant any level of removal aside from continuing to reduce/remove timers on story critical items.

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29 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

DE encourages occasional sales from repeat customers, not "whale hunting", and "play every day" is a component of both

whatever it is, it turns the entire game into just a bunch of chores, not even to mention the quotas that you are mandated to upkeep, which are just more chores.
everything is just chores.

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Eh, you know, there are valid arguments for changing/shortening the crafting timers, also from a business and moneymaking perspective. The game has changed after all, and there are so many more weapons, frames and whatnot.

Faster and easier acquisition of those may indeed keep more potential new players on board. You get stuck in that first frame for way too long. The game would be well-served by showcasing what sets it apart, and part of that is the wide variation of frames you can choose from. Besides, it puts more pressure on the need for additional slots, The craft timer can be waited out, but no matter how long it takes, if you have no slot to put it in, it's just going to sit there in the foundry looking shiny, so either way, DE is going to collect.

 

 

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18 hours ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

That's a completely unfair analogy though, buying storage is a very limited thing. For 60$ you can buy currency stash, unique stash, a premium stash, and one or two stashes of your choice  Then you are done no more gating. In Warframe you spend 80$ on a prime access I don't remember the exact amount of platinum, but let's say it's 4000 if I was to spend it ok crafting timers only that'd be 125 plat per frame of which there are over 50 so it's no where near enough to even rush every frame. If giving a game 80$ doesn't merit skipping the gating that's dumb design.

I agree with your point in principle, because you start each season with empty inventory you are reusing your purchased tabs over and over.  However, and bear in mind I haven't played PoE in some time, my understanding is that every season brings new currency items which over time requires the purchase of more stash tabs.  Just a quick search brings up Delirium and Metamorph stash tabs, which didn't exist when I was playing.  Is this not the case?

And my actual point is that there is gating in all F2P games because of the necessity of the developers to sustain themselves and keep developing.  Different companies solve this in different ways.  DE capitalizes on player impatience, GGG capitalizes on players wanting to keep all their loot.  The differences here is that the Warframe stuff can be acquired with time investment whereas the PoE stuff needs real money.  The Warframe stuff (bypassing timers) is also optional, you can just wait or use platinum from relics, 1-2 relics would probably get you enough plat for any timer.  I would argue that Stash tabs are not optional.  So yes, Warframe has 'more' gating than PoE, but none of it actually blocks you as a player, as it does in PoE.

 

 

Edited by Invisibleaxeman
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5 hours ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

That's predatory sand shouldn't exist in game. It's literally been running the game since it came out.

Not sure I agree that it shouldn't exist....
And warframe is far from the only game that does it.

I mean think of every game that has a mechanic of "Come back tomorrow to claim or continue this!"
They all have the goal of "Make the player log in tomorrow to claim or continue what they were doing."
If you do this enough frequently enough then eventually the game becomes a habit for the player an they will keep signing in day after ay after day even when they don't have anything waiting for them the next day simply because they are used to signing into the game day after day after day.

Its part of the reason why the daily tasks in nightwave expire after a few days: its another reason to sign in to claim the standing.
Its part of the reason why standing for anything has a daily cap: to make you sign in the next day to continue getting standing and progress.
Its part of the reason why tenet melee weapons have a weekly cooldown of when you can buy them: to make you come back next week if you want to max out the weapons.

 

Really its the point behind a lot of energy timers in various games: to make the player go "In order to continue I'll be playing this tomorrow...." (that and to prevent over-satiation but that part really isn't applicable to WF)
Its even part of the reason behind the resin system in Genshin Impact: Make the player come back tomorrow to be able to claim rewards from doing things unless they want to pay money to do it right now, and even then it has a limit to ensure that no matter how hard a player wants to go they are eventually forced to wait until resin naturally refills to be able to continue, which means coming back the next day and the next and so on.

 

Its a proven method of player retention.
Keep them coming back day after day after day and eventually its a habit.  And habits are a hard thing for people to drop, meaning that if the game can become someones habit then they are likely a customer for an exceedingly long time.

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6 hours ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

That's predatory sand shouldn't exist in game. It's literally been running the game since it came out.

I'm more wondering what type of crafting system you'd like, seeing as how most things we need or could use a crapton of has short crafting time, is done automatically and come in large piles per craft. Only the "rare" things take a long time to craft, like frames, weapons, forma and taters.

If WF ran with a classic crafting system you'd like need to sit there and spend hours to craft a frame or weapon manually bu requiring you to refine those 5000 alloy, 3000 cryotic, 500 hexenon and 2 orokin cells. Or are you expecting some system where you just press a button and the game farts out a frame the next second? Yeah no, that doesnt even happen in sub based or B2P games.

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Personally, I'll take crafting timers over energy systems any day of the week.

35 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

Skyrim farts out equipment instantly, but it's a completely different type of game compared to Warframe

Said equipment is disposable by design though, if I'm not mistaken (as in, you're expected to discard it as soon as something better comes along).

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18 hours ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

It's been a day so you've unlocked my response: your opinion is wrong.

Such compelling logic!  Whatever you have to do to protect your ego from acknowledging you've been ratio'd.

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2 hours ago, Corvid said:

Personally, I'll take crafting timers over energy systems any day of the week.

Said equipment is disposable by design though, if I'm not mistaken (as in, you're expected to discard it as soon as something better comes along).

That and it is single player with no intention of retention etc. I dont think I'd sit down and play a single player game if it had simulated or time gated crafting, unless it was a life simulation game set in X era and wanted a "second life".

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5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm more wondering what type of crafting system you'd like, seeing as how most things we need or could use a crapton of has short crafting time, is done automatically and come in large piles per craft. Only the "rare" things take a long time to craft, like frames, weapons, forma and taters.

If WF ran with a classic crafting system you'd like need to sit there and spend hours to craft a frame or weapon manually bu requiring you to refine those 5000 alloy, 3000 cryotic, 500 hexenon and 2 orokin cells. Or are you expecting some system where you just press a button and the game farts out a frame the next second? Yeah no, that doesnt even happen in sub based or B2P games.

Yeah, you grind the materials you get the thing. Why do you think that's such a bad concept? 

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On 2021-08-10 at 3:17 PM, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

time gates are a necessary evil; without them you'll burn through content too quickly and then be left with nothing to do.. and then you'll probably leave the game anyway. the vast majority of the playerbase don't have any level of self-control and this can be exploited - and certainly has been exploited - by game devs for years now. hate me for it if you want, but that's the way it is. 

besides, it doesn't stop you from actually playing the game, it just stops you getting that new shiny for a while; you can always focus on another goal to take your mind off the waiting.

Exactly, just look at how fast the community always burn through new content. Crafting speed, daily standing limit are just the necessary evil.

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I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, I don't want to read every reply. But what I think is worse then the crafting timer is only crafting one of each Item at a time. I would be fine with the timers, just let me craft multiple Forma at once. I mean, the Foundry can theoretically build 5 (Different) Warframes at once but can't handle 2 Forma. I have the ressources, just le me craft it. Would be good for minerals to, not having to wait 1 minute between 10 Heart-Noctruls 3 times. Just let me build 3 at once.

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17 hours ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

1/6th or have the frame itself be a minute and the parts can still take 12h

At the very least, they could do this for new player-friendly frames (like Rhino)... you know, so you don't alienate your new players with a lame game mechanic ... if you could call an such an obvious anti-feature a "game mechanic."

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