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K-Drive racing in conclave


(PSN)Vexx757
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Despite people not liking conclave, one thing I believe the majority would enjoy in conclave is a game-mode where you are racing against other players with k-drives. Now before you say it yes it won`t fix conclave`s issues but it will be a fun game mode where it will bring a new audience to conclave.

Inspirations:

Spoiler

 

 

Before I get into it, I think only operators and the on-call crew should be played in conclave as a whole, this alone sorts one of the issues with conclave and I makes operators have more of a use, with that being said here are some ideas of what this game mode will have.

 

·        K-drives will be ridden by operators and one of you`re on-call crew.

·        K-drives have 3 health bars.

·        If you have 0 health, you will stop moving and you must rapidly press a button (X or A on controllers) to repair k-drive to get back into the race.

·        The race track levels can use existing tilesets e.g. infested ship.

·        Outside races will have a day and night versions of it.

·        Doing tricks, grinding and taking short cuts will reward you with conclave standing.

·        Doing tricks and drifting will give you a short boost of speed.

·        If you come last place, you will still get a decent amount of conclave standing.

·        If you come 1st place you will get some sort of advantage the next race with the same players.

·        You will be able to pick up items to use for yourself or against opponents.

·        The tilesets will have obstacles and hazards (falling debris) for you to avoid.

·        Pickups will be warframe abilities.

 

Warframe ability pickups;

Excalibur 2nd ability - can blind opponents for 3 seconds.

Ash 1st ability – will do damage over time taking 2 health bars homing in on opponents.

Volt 2nd ability - gives you 30% speed for 7 seconds.

Loki 3rd ability – allows you to switch with someone in front of you.

Frost 1st ability – will slow your opponent for 5 seconds and deal damage taking 1 health bar

Trinity 4th ability - will restore 3 health bars and give you one extra bar.

Nezha 2nd ability – can hit up to 3 opponents and will damage 1 health bar.

Nova 3rd ability – if anyone goes through the portal it will send the 3 places back.

Vauban 1st ability – can shock up to 2 players for 3 seconds when going near them and deal damage taking 1 health bar.

Nyx 1st ability – can be use on opponents to convert their controls for 5 seconds.

Mag 2nd ability – will put a bubble on an opponent for 30 seconds which anyone that uses a projectile pickup will go straight to the person with the bubble no matter the distance.

Saryn 1st ability – does damage over time which will take all health unless your slow down to cancel the toxin, moving faster will accelerate the health drain.

Rhino 2nd ability -  can absorb damage done by an opponent 1 time.

 

Rare ultimate abilities;

Mirage 4th ability – can blind every opponent making there screen all white for 5 seconds and does damage taking 2 health bars.

Nekros 3rd ability – can give you double standing points throughout the duration of the race.

Octavia 4th ability – will give everyone uncontrollable acceleration speed for 10 seconds (double edged sword) and will play config a music for 20 seconds.

Harrow 4th ability – you will not be affected by opponents’ pickups or pickup buffs for the duration of the race.

Operator dash - whenever you boost you are able stagger opponents for the duration of the race. stagger will last 1 second.

Ultra-rare pickup - This ability will give you the ability to move 2 spaces on the leaderbord e.g. 8th place to 6th place OR gives you 5 times the standing you get.

 

Bonus;

If you go through the first lap without taking damage or getting a negative effect by an opponent with a pickup, you will get 10% acceleration speed.

 

K-drive related rewards in conclave;

·        K-drive parts (for visual change)

·        K-drive skin.

·        Warframe related k-drive skins (ash ninja k-drive skin)

·        Mod buffs for k-drives.

 

On thing I also want to mention is to remove the inertia from k-drives, it makes sense but it makes them award to use, if you stop you should stop.

I`m someone that don`t like conclave but this alone will make me want to play in conclave and it would be cool to see your customised operator and k-drive while playing in this game-mode.

 

Warframe 20210429082852 by Aaronj-c

 

Edited by (PSN)Vexx757
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Yeah that sounds like fun! I would definitely give it a go. I like that you thought out some extras in terms of health and abilities. A couple of comments I have are:

On 2021-08-11 at 1:39 PM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Doing tricks, grinding and taking short cuts will reward you with conclave standing.

I think there will be a large number of players not participating in the race at all, simply doing tricks near the starting area to farm standing. I agree that tricks should boost gained standing, but it should be done in a way that benefits players doing tricks while racing (i.e.: standing gained from tricks should be a very small number that then gets multiplied by your relative position in the race itself, negating any real benefit of hanging out near the start button mashing to repeat tricks.)

On 2021-08-11 at 1:39 PM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

The race track levels can use existing tilesets e.g. infested ship.

Yeah... except not really... A lot of those tiles are not designed for K-drives and will result in a lot of collisions and frustration for players. If we're going to do this, I think we should make whole new maps designed for the races (with themes based on existing tilesets, perhaps).

On 2021-08-11 at 1:39 PM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Doing tricks and drifting will give you a short boost of speed.

This is a very good idea, in principle. Doing tricks should definitely increase your chance of winning, otherwise people will skip doing tricks at all and just focus on going fast down the track. Making speed change based on tricks is not a good idea, because people get a feel for their base speed and the boost from tricks can end up messing up their timing on turns. So the speed boost will in some cases actually be a detriment (i.e.: don't perform any tricks before that big turn!).

I think a good alternative idea would be to tie abilities to tricks. For example, I think abilities should be fueled by trick energy instead of pickups, that way you can do difficult tricks to gain an advantage instead of just picking up items on the track. If you don't do any tricks, sure you'll go fast but you won't have any abilities and you may be vulnerable to other abilities behind you. 

On 2021-08-11 at 1:39 PM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

If you come last place, you will still get a decent amount of conclave standing.

Yes!!!! For too long, bad players have flocked to exploits in order to "farm" their standing because poor performance means poor standing gain in conclave. Standing for poor performance, and especially for persistence, should be boosted in Conclave and any future racing mode.

On 2021-08-11 at 1:39 PM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

If you come 1st place you will get some sort of advantage the nextime you play.

No!!!! Giving good players an extra boost will just make the good players dominate even more. DE already made this mistake by adding "heal-on-kill" mods to Conclave which allows good players to go on 20+ kill sprees. It's a bad idea.

On 2021-08-11 at 1:39 PM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

There are 2 difficulty modes, easy and hard. Hard difficulty will have obstacles and hazards e.g falling debris.

No!!!! Splitting the playerbase between modes will make it more difficult to find a match/race. I think it's better to simply think of the other players' offensive abilities as hazards.

On 2021-08-11 at 1:39 PM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Warframe ability pickups;

All of these abilities sound good on paper, but... There have been power-based racing games in the past that have all suffered the same problem: If you give racers abilities to disrupt other nearby racers, then the person in 2nd place is getting hit by 3rd, while 3rd is getting hit by 4th, etc... This means that if 2nd place gets hit, there ends up being a big jumble of racers all hitting each other while the 1st place racer runs away and never faces any further challenges! I'm honestly not sure what the solution is. Ability targeting by selection even if the 1st place racer is off-screen? That's not a good idea... Perhaps making sure that every map is filled with crisscrosses so that the 1st place racer ends up in view of all the other racers multiple times throughout each lap? I appreciate that you included a few defensive abilities, but I think it should be more 50/50 between offensive and defensive abilities, and that this shouldn't depend on your Warframe choice - you should be able to choose offensive or defensive in the moment.

In short: I think you have a good basic idea for the game-mode. I especially like the 3 health bars for every competitor, and power use (powered by tricks, please!), but I think there are still issues to be worked out. I think we can find solutions for these small problems, and a fantastic game-mode can be created! However, my cynical side looks at the track record of this game's developer in terms of creating new game-modes and then abandoning them (and their bugs / exploits) within a short time, and I realize that any competitive mode is doomed to fail with that kind of developer mentality. Can this be done? Yes. With a developer that focuses on balance, not grind.

Edited by Sevek7
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6 hours ago, Sevek7 said:
On 2021-08-11 at 7:39 PM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

If you come last place, you will still get a decent amount of conclave standing.

Yes!!!! For too long, bad players have flocked to exploits in order to "farm" their standing because poor performance means poor standing gain in conclave. Standing for poor performance, and especially for persistence, should be boosted in Conclave and any future racing mode.

There's a reason for that, sadly.

Base standing in Conclave used to be higher, but then there were people who would just hide away in hard-to-reach places or avoid fights altogether until their energy was full for an ultimate.

And now that Conclave is in a S#&$ty state, the go-to is abusing badly balanced weapons, bugs and exploits instead.

 

Conversely, base standing here would still have to be tied to some activity, maybe reaching at least the mid-point of the race or something. Alternatively, a timer like in PvE missions and you have to reach the finish line even if you're last.

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As long as it has the practice/ PVE mode, I hate when its just all or nothing. Cuz i see this as another mode that will just die out shortly after release. Then you will be waiting forever for a match just like conclave now. 

I like the idea, just like Mario carts but warframe style. 

If DE allowed for players to build tile sets and have ingame - player based missions, warframe would be number 1 free to play game. 

Cuz i've seen these players with their dojos I can only imagine what they can do for a mission tile set.  

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On 2021-08-11 at 1:39 PM, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

Despite people not liking conclave, one thing I believe the majority would enjoy in conclave is a game-mode where you are racing against other players with k-drives. Now before you say it yes it won`t fix conclave`s issues but it will be a fun game mode where it will bring a new audience to conclave.

Inspirations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFUkNLZ9oqU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTyJ4RIkWZM

 

Before I get into it, I think only operators and the on-call crew should be played in conclave as a whole, this alone sorts one of the issues with conclave and I makes operators have more of a use, with that being said here are some ideas of what this game mode will have.

 

·        K-drives will be ridden by operators and one of your on-call crew.

·        K-drives have 3 health bars.

·        If you have 0 health, you will stop moving and you must rapidly press a button (X or A on controllers) to repair k-drive to get back into the race.

·        The race track levels can use existing tilesets e.g. infested ship.

·        Outside races will have a day and night versions of it.

·        Doing tricks, grinding and taking short cuts will reward you with conclave standing.

·        Doing tricks and drifting will give you a short boost of speed.

·        If you come last place, you will still get a decent amount of conclave standing.

·        If you come 1st place you will get some sort of advantage the nextime you play.

·        You will be able to pick up items to use for yourself or against opponents.

·        There are 2 difficulty modes, easy and hard. Hard difficulty will have obstacles and hazards e.g falling debris.

·        On the hard difficulty, it will reward the racers that come 1st, 2nd and 3rd place with even more standing.

·        Pickups will be warframe abilities.

 

Warframe ability pickups;

Excalibur 2nd ability - can blind opponents for 3 seconds.

Ash 1st ability – will do damage over time taking 2 health bars homing in on opponents.

Volt 2nd ability - gives you 30% speed for 7 seconds.

Loki 3rd ability – allows you to switch with someone in front of you.

Frost 1st ability – will slow your opponent for 5 seconds and deal damage taking 1 health bar

Trinity 4th ability - will restore 3 health bars and give you one extra bar.

Nezha 2nd ability – can hit up to 3 opponents and will damage 1 health bar.

Nova 3rd ability – if anyone goes through the portal it will send the 3 places back.

Vauban 1st ability – can shock up to 2 players for 3 seconds when going near them and deal damage taking 1 health bar.

Nyx 1st ability – can be use on opponents to convert their controls for 5 seconds.

Mag 2nd ability – will put a bubble on an opponent for 30 seconds which anyone that uses a projectile pickup will go straight to the person with the bubble no matter the distance.

Saryn 1st ability – does damage over time which will take all health unless your slow down to cancel the toxin, moving faster will accelerate the health drain.

Rhino 2nd ability -  can absorb damage done by an opponent 1 time.

 

Rare ultimate abilities;

Mirage 4th ability – can blind every opponent making there screen all white for 5 seconds and does damage taking 2 health bars.

Nekros 3rd ability – can give you double standing points throughout the duration of the race.

Octavia 4th ability – will give everyone uncontrollable acceleration speed for 10 seconds (double edged sword) and will play config a music for 20 seconds.

Harrow 4th ability – you will not be affected by opponents’ pickups or pickup buffs for the duration of the race.

Operator dash - whenever you boost you are able stagger opponents for the duration of the race. stagger will last 1 second.

Ultra-rare pickup - This ability will give you the ability to move 2 spaces on the leaderbord e.g. 8th place to 6th place OR gives you 5 times the standing you get.

 

Bonus;

If you go through the first lap without taking damage or getting a negative effect by an opponent with a pickup, you will get 10% acceleration speed.

 

K-drive related rewards in conclave;

·        K-drive parts (for visual change)

·        K-drive skin.

·        Warframe related k-drive skins (ash ninja k-drive skin)

·        Mod buffs for k-drives.

 

On thing I also want to mention is to remove the inertia from k-drives, it makes sense but it makes them award to use, if you stop you should stop.

I`m someone that don`t like conclave but this alone will make me want to play in conclave and it would be cool to see your customised operator and k-drive while playing in this game-mode.

 

Warframe 20210429082852 by Aaronj-c

 

Ew kdrive racing gross

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They wont even fix the normal conclave and what your suggesting is far more complex and would take away from the things they are actively fixing. Their is zero chance they would execute your pipedream of Kdrive racing how you want and it would be stripped down to the bare minimum and forgotten in like a week with no fanfare at it's announcement. Silly people thinking Conclave has life left in it at all or that they would develop another quickly forgotten about game mode that would never be fixed, fir PvP nonetheless XD. Give it up... Even if they implemented conclave racing then it would not be nearly as epic as your vision of it. They have to focus on PvE as that is where the money comes in...

Edited by (XBOX)Zweimander
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Seems like a mixture between Sparrow Racing from Destiny 1 and Mario Kart, anyway I dig it. Any type of content for K-Drive is a good thing, there is too little incentive to actually use K-Drive.
Only problem is that it is connected to Conclave which nobody really plays (well not nobody, just not enough people to actually enjoy). Warframe is a PvE focused game and when we talk about content it should be based on that. Or Warframe needs a complete PvP overhaul, which I would be completely on board with when done correctly, but which is unlikely.

Anyway thank you so much for your proposal. Anything to give K-Drive the attention it needs is great and your ideas have great potential.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

I really like this idea, giving an actual purpose to K-Drives as a whole is a great idea. As many people have mentioned, DE is currently going through a (rather prolonged) phase of not finishing things they start and releasing content that's in an unfinished mess. That said, I see no harm in thinking about the possibilities and opening discussions about our ideas so that hopefully one day when DE understands how to properly schedule and release content we can see some great things.

With all that said here are my thoughts on this idea.

So to start, I think overall the idea of competitive K-Drive racing is really cool. I would personally love to see a full expansion on the idea adding tons of new K-Drive related content around competitive races. That said, a few things I think should be different with you current concept. Before that though I should preface with the fact that I have not participated in the Conclave whatsoever so my knowledge on the current state of Conclave and how it all works is limited to what I've heard others say.

Now, the first thing I want to touch on is the combination of pickups and the whole operator and 1 crew member. I think that it should be slightly adjusted so that you can choose to use either your operator or a Warframe of your choice, however, your choice is a purely cosmetic one, this would be because you abilities in the race would use a unique loadout that is specific to these races and is not affected by any mods on your frame or weapons. Your loadout would consist of a combination of 3 basic abilities and 1 ultimate ability (as is normal with a standard frame) however you would get to choose which abilities you have from a pool of abilities that are suited for use in races. This pool can include already pre-existing Warframe abilities and/or new K-Drive race exclusive abilities. Your loadout would also consist of a single choice from a limited selection of single shot secondary weapons that all have varying traits such as homing shots, AoE Shots, multi shots, etc.

This would then allow the pickups to be more generic and suited to the style of game Warframe is. Pickups would either be ammo or energy. Ammo pickups would give you a single bullet and you may carry a maximum of 5 bullets at a time. Energy pickups would grant 1 energy and all basic abilities would cost 1 energy and all ultimate abilities would cost 3 energy. This would allow a bit more of an equal playing field for all players and focuses more on the competitive side of racing rather than party game side, which is what randomized pickups tend to do.

The health system would likely work best as a 3 hit system rather than 3 health bars, just to keep things simple. Anything that does damage would deal a single point of damage and then after reaching 0 it would work exactly as you described (ie. K-Drive is disabled and then must do some kind of mini-game to repair it).

The maps should all be hand-made with no randomization in them. Any sort of generated map in a race just leads to player frustration. That said there can be a small amount of randomization in the form of where the pickups are as well as possible alternate routes through a track being open or closed. Each track should also contain many of the standard competitive racing features such as boost pads, trick boosters, point pickups, etc.

Now, as for the tricks granting a boost, I think it's a neat idea, kind of like Mario Kart in that sense. However, I think the best approach to that would to follow the example of the SSX games. Doing tricks will fill up a boost meter, failing a trick will cause you to lose a portion of your boost meter. The boost meter would then be used to allow you to, well, boost. No boost meter, no boosting, it's straight forward and simple to understand. The amount of boost given when doing tricks is dependent on the complexity of the trick. A more complex trick with lost of flips and twists would grant a decent amount of boost, a bunny hop nose grab would grant very little boost. Furthermore, repeating the same trick would grant diminishing amounts of boost forcing players to change things up. There could then be pickups that fill a portion of your boost meter to help fill out the map in areas where there are fewer ramps/jumps to perform larger tricks.

The abilities you've suggested mostly seem fine with the exception of those super rare ultimate abilities and what they do. They are a little bit too niche or extreme for something like competitive racing. All abilities should be one-time effects that do something and then are done. The ultimate abilities can be simple upgrades to standard basic abilities, for example, if a basic ability gives you a short burst of speed, have an ultimate that grants you a longer burst of speed. There should also be equalizer abilities that are more effective the further behind you are (ie. things that target whoever is in first, or something that hits all players in a position higher than yours).

Finally, the part that gives you a reason to even participate in these races in the first place, Conclave standing gain. Again, I have not engaged with the Conclave at all so the actual numbers would best be left to people more familiar with it. The basic concept you have is pretty good however I think it should be adjusted so that you only gain standing if you finish the race. Instead of gaining direct standing throughout the race, you would gain points, these points would then be converted to standing at the end of the race with a ratio that is dependent on where you placed. For example, first place would get a 3x multiplier meaning if they got 5000 points throughout the race, they would then gain 15000 standing but then last place (out of say 8 players) would have like a 0.25x multiplier meaning that same 5000 points would become 1250 standing (obviously numbers are completely arbitrary and would need to be properly balanced but you get the gist). As for earning points there would be 3 sources of points which are doing tricks, collecting point boosters, and completing a lap. Tricks are pretty standard, better tricks give more points. Point boosters would be simple pickups that are littered across each track that can grant varying amounts of points or even potentially give a point multiplier for a set duration. Finally, the amount of points you gain upon finishing a lap would be based on your lap time compared to a global average or possibly a ghost time set by DE (or maybe even both). Post-Script Note: I thought of this after I finished writing the rest of this post and so just adding this here. In my opinion I think the point-to-standing ratio should be something where you earn far more points in a race than standing. For example, in any given race you may earn upwards of 100's of thousands of points, but then afterwards you would only gain say a couple thousand standing. Again, not sure if the numbers are any good but that's just the general idea.

The last component is anti-grief and anti-exploit mechanics. Both anti-grieving and anti-exploiting would be covered by the same mechanics of timers. A global timer that the race will end after if no players have crossed the finish line before it expires and a much shorter timer that starts after the first person crosses the finish line. Anyone who fails to finish the race before either timer expires will not gain any standing for the race. Finally, if a lap takes to long to complete players will lose points for that lap instead of gaining points. These systems (combined with the concept that standing in only gained after completing the race) should help a lot with preventing players from sitting at the start line grinding tricks for standing and should prevent players from trying to exploit the race to maximize their standing. The most effective way to gain standing in this mode would be by trying to do as many tricks as possible while also trying to complete the race as fast as possible.

Hope I didn't go too overboard with my ideas here! I'm a hobbyist game designer/developer myself so I can sometimes get carried away with these things haha. But all round I think this would be an amazing addition to the game that just fills out the parts that Warframe is currently missing. I would also like to reiterate that everything I've said is purely my opinion and would love to see what OP and others think of it!

Final Notes: To touch on some of the other concepts suggested I think I agree with Sevek7 in saying that I don't think there should be any benefit for placing first other than gaining more standing. And I don't think there should be 2 queues as that would separate an already thin player-base. One final thing, I'm not sure if Conclave already has something like this, but there should of course be leaderboards for different things like best lap times on the various tracks, best total track times, highest point score per track, and even a cumulative leaderboard where you are placed based on your overall performance across all your completed races. That last one could even be a sort of ranking ladder where you climb by doing well in races and then it's used for better matchmaking, though that would require a larger player-base to function smoothly.

Edited by Miku0Sama
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I love the idea. The only thing I'm concerned about is that if this is implemented it'll just be another content island. I can see it as a diversion and distraction sort of mini-game, which would be amazing, but the sheer amount of content islands in the game already are a bit ridiculous. 

One possible solution to this is changing it from convclave to Vent Kids, and the races would take place in Orb Vallis. Everything else stays the same, but more corpus tile races along with open worlds. And considering the whole Operators and vent kid dynamics, it would make a lotta sense.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Le 25/10/2021 à 18:01, Mr.NoodleHair a dit :

One possible solution to this is changing it from convclave to Vent Kids, and the races would take place in Orb Vallis. Everything else stays the same, but more corpus tile races along with open worlds. And considering the whole Operators and vent kid dynamics, it would make a lotta sense.

Could use the bounty system maybe. Wouldn't be a bounty of course, but... And there would be rewards obviously. I'm thinking maybe credits. It would make sense (maybe not the most in orb vallis though, unless the race is about stealing corpus along the way I guess), and if it rewards enough but not too much, it will be an interesting option for those that don't like or can't do Profit-Taker or the Index (think about it, Venus, second planet, and without having to finish Second War), without the players that dislike k-drive seeing it as another way to force them into it.

If not orb vallis, however, maybe the next open world ?

 

By the way, I will admit I haven't read much of this topic. I just came for something else (don't plan to be active on the forums) and noticed OP's pm, so I looked at the topic. But there's a lot to read and it's already late enough for me, so I can't do much more than that, sorry (gn).

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@(PSN)PerigoBerro

Quote:

"I read it and YES! I would play that 100% and it shouldn't be difficult to add into the game. Get DE on this ASAP!"

I don`t know if you heard but on the devstream they mentioned that they were going to add some sort of racing in the game. It would make sense to use what they already have (k-drives) which will give them a use and even through I'm not keen on conclave it makes sense it being their so you can go up against other players and having your operator ride the k-drives will make ppl like them even more.

Like you said this should not be hard to implement and it will bring ppl like me back to conclave, they have reward that the majority are not clamming due to the game-modes and ppl jumping around that`s why operators and one of your on-call crew would be a better option to be playable characters. Hopefully DE will consider this.

 

This is the closes thing we are going to get to operators riding on a k-drives. also, can we get have the ability to stand on the hoovers on the orbiter.

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