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Is there a way to make ranged weapons not feel terrible?


ratemal
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Every time i use a ranged weapon in a mission, it just feels like i'm deliberately gimping myself by not using melee instead. They don't have a way to hit multiple targets at once (at least the ones i got until now) and their dps is an order of magnitude worse than melee. The only advantage ranged weapons have - long range - is made irrelevant by the insane mobility we have in this game. Why stand in one place and shoot at enemy when i can reach him with a single bullet-jump and actually still kill him faster (along with 5 other enemies next to him).

Please tell me i'm just doing something wrong and ranged weapons are actually good. I really want to enjoy using them but i just can't justify their use against any remotely threatening enemy. So far i tried boltor and braton, that were completely terrible (by defense wave 15 i could empty an entire magazine into a single enemy without killing him), and vectis, that is at least bearable, but the only enemies i can actually one-shot with it don't present any threat in the first place, and actually dangerous stuff like eximus enemies or prosecutors take forever to kill with it.

Could you please recommend me a weapon and build that can (on MR4) at least be comparable in effectivness to melee weapons?

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a Month ago, when people were complaining that Melee was like 50x better than Guns, i was still cruise controlling through Steel Path when people insisted that even on the Solar Map they were inadequate.

yes, you can make things effective if you care enough to do so.

 

at Mastery 4 however, you probably don't have much for Mods, and that's a different story. at that point in the game, what's going to compete with Melee is probably just Shotguns.

and later on don't forget to learn game mechanics so that you can utilize things effectively.

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Plenty of ways to make ANY (except Stug) weapon viable. From Primary and Secondary arcanes, Galvanized mods (which pack a hell of a punch and basically replaced regular Damage+ mods at this point) and rivens.

Unfortunately gun arcanes are pretty out of reach for new players because they require you to complete the whole Star Chart, while Galvanized mods can only be bought from Arbiters of Hexis in relays after earning their currency in a mode called Arbitrations.

So taking all that into consideration I assure you that later on guns become stupidly overpowered and DE's constantly working on making them equal to melee.

As for weapon recommendation. If you want to really pack a punch early in game then I suggest you build Hek - it's a versatile shotgun that will carry you through all of Star Chart with ease and you can build it at your current mastery rank.

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16 minutes ago, ratemal said:

Could you please recommend me a weapon and build that can (on MR4) at least be comparable in effectivness to melee weapons?

The reason why there's such difference in power is because of the risk... You're open to more risk when you're using your Melee than with your weapons...

A proper ranged weapon build helps mitigating that difference, but unless you actually know how you use your Melee (and no, spamming the Melee button isn't knowing how to use. Think further beyond of spamming.) you'll always be under the impression that ranged weapons are useless...

 

... Here's an example... A fellow clan member told me that my Drakgoon build for Steel Path, which only has 3 mods, sucks and isn't viable for Steel Path... So, out of spite, I streamed an entire mission to the entire Clan with that Drakgoon, with the build he clearly stated that it sucked, through Discord... And he watched it too. Do you know what happened next?

Spoiler

... He left on his own accord because, apparently, he couldn't handle the fact that I knew more and better than he ever did.

Ok, pushing that side-note aside...

 

Weapons are more than just items to use. Knowing when to use them, and under which conditions, helps a lot, especially when you have proper builds for it. At the stage you're in, you should worry more about which type of ranged weapon you feel more comfortable to use as there are several types available for the player and then, only after choosing it, should you worry about builds.

However, the staple mods you should use for ranged weapons, like with their Melee equivalent mods, are always Serration & Hornet Strike for extra damage, critical chance mods and critical damage mods.

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27 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

The reason why there's such difference in power is because of the risk..

because one performs far better without Mods than the other.
just like how Shotguns are recommended for newer Players as choices for Guns as they perform a lot better than the rest when you're basing it on no Mods being involved.

and then later on in the game, thee's a big difference in power because people are disasterous at using the Game Mechanics and Mods to their advantage. they just Internet Search "what's the best" and then do whatever comes up. then when it sucks they don't know what to do.

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Melee is straight up better than guns in Warframe. Theoretically it's higher risk for higher reward, except that with melee out you have 100% damage reduction against most ranged attacks within a certain angle in front of you—which, yes, is somewhat limited, but it's better than the 0% DR you get from all directions when you have a gun out.

Guns do get better than they are at MR4, partly because there are better guns that become available but mostly because you get your mods filled out and learn what works.

But overall, melee weapons are better in nearly every category. Maybe the one single thing ranged is better for is getting rid of nullifier bubbles.

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The main issue in my eyes is, there is still a large divide between single target weapons and AOE weapons/melee. Yes, you can make 90% of the weapons work perfectly fine. But that takes a lot more work and resources.
Why put up some ridiculous setup just to make the Burston Prime or Sybaris work, when you can have the same result (enemies dead) with far less expense by using Bramma or Kronen Prime? 
I think it is often times a question of convenience and efficiency. And considering how much of the content in which you get the best loot is so grindy, it requires you to either be efficient as heck or have no RL job. And because it sometimes takes up that mich time, we need our equipment to be efficient as heck.

Imho, we don't need Aoe guns or Melee to be more powerful, but single target to get on the level of the other two.

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I'm just going to link to an old Brozime video that has a pretty good beginner build for one of the best early game guns in the game, the Hek.  The only thing that I would change about it to keep up with the current meta is that it might be an even better weapon if you did NOT include the Charged Shell mod (Electricity) which means that instead of Corrosive and Blast elements this gun will have Viral and Heat, which becomes a better combination the more you progress into the game.  If you watch the video, Brozime even tells you where to get the mods.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Incongruous said:

Plenty of ways to make ANY (except Stug) weapon viable. From Primary and Secondary arcanes, Galvanized mods (which pack a hell of a punch and basically replaced regular Damage+ mods at this point) and rivens.

Unfortunately gun arcanes are pretty out of reach for new players because they require you to complete the whole Star Chart, while Galvanized mods can only be bought from Arbiters of Hexis in relays after earning their currency in a mode called Arbitrations.

So taking all that into consideration I assure you that later on guns become stupidly overpowered and DE's constantly working on making them equal to melee.

As for weapon recommendation. If you want to really pack a punch early in game then I suggest you build Hek - it's a versatile shotgun that will carry you through all of Star Chart with ease and you can build it at your current mastery rank.

I was about to go on like "but you can also buy both from other players.." but then realized that even if one buys an Arcane, it can't be installed due to needing to buy an adapter for it! And Teshin's shop opens only after clearing the starchart once..

Yup, I gotta say, I like the limitations due to the game progression. WF is way too lenient with it anyway; almost everything can be bought making the game easily progressed through money. Ofc, you can grind for stuff, but almost all "ebdgame stuff" (mods, arcanes, etc) are for sale.

Edited by (PSN)Luke_Zakalwe
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21 hours ago, ratemal said:

Please tell me i'm just doing something wrong and ranged weapons are actually good.

You're just doing something wrong and ranged weapons are actually good.

 

See, I'm a good guy. I tell you what you want to hear, and also the truth at the same time.

Don't worry, mate. At mr4 you have seen absolutely nothing. If mr journey is like climbing the everest, you just arrived at the airport in kathmandu. You're not even at the mountain yet. Later you will find aoe weapons that can kill multiple enemies. Then after some hardcore grinding you will find mods to make those weapons even crazier.

At higher level such as steel path, sometimes you don't want to bulletjump. That half second you need to bulletjump might be all the enemies need to kill you.

============

When i was new, i remember had a blast using automatics like braton and boltor. I feel warframe is comparable to even the best shooters out there like cs or cod. My skana was good but nowhere near infinitely better. 

The fact that you even complain about it, this early, force me to suspect that you're probably watched too many youtube videos or read warframe sites. Or got carried way further than you should naturally be. At mr4 everything should be killing everything.

At that early levels you should take the opportunity to max these "trash weapons" while the enemies still dies to them. Save up the later better weapons so you can use them for stronger enemies. Slap some good mods on those weak weapons so they're bearable.

Edited by Soy77
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11 minutes ago, Soy77 said:

Save up the later better weapons so you can use them for stronger enemies.

Thanks, but can you tell me what these "better" weapons actually are? Just about every melee weapon i tried so far can get me through easily with just a matching stance mod and pressure point, but the same can't be said about the ranged ones, and at this point it's neither fun nor viable to just stand there slowly picking off enemies one by one while there's 10+ of them shooting at the same time (just unlocked Jupiter). I maxed 4 melee weapons by the time i maxed a single ranged because most of the time i just can't justify using it. Yes, everything is still killing everything - as long as it's melee.

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41 minutes ago, ratemal said:

Thanks, but can you tell me what these "better" weapons actually are? Just about every melee weapon i tried so far can get me through easily with just a matching stance mod and pressure point, but the same can't be said about the ranged ones, and at this point it's neither fun nor viable to just stand there slowly picking off enemies one by one while there's 10+ of them shooting at the same time (just unlocked Jupiter). I maxed 4 melee weapons by the time i maxed a single ranged because most of the time i just can't justify using it. Yes, everything is still killing everything - as long as it's melee.

Let's see, there's the bubonico, the amprex, acceltra, synapse, ignis wraith, phantasma, proboscis cernos, zhuge prime, just some from the top of my head. We still have bunch of kuva weapons that are excellent like zarr, bramma, or the still good nukor. Not to mention the new tenet weapons.

And we haven't even gone through the single target weapons that are actually good. Like rubico prime, corinth prime, cedo, I'm sure others can drop names of their favorite weapons with ease as well.

Of course some of those weapons have higher mr requirements, or just require players to have more advanced gears to obtain them. 

If i have to guess, you probably haven't use damage mods and multishots for your guns. If it still doesn't work, put elements on them. If it still doesn't work, upgrade those mods.

If it still doesn't work, you probably got carried to places way further than you should naturally be.

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10 minutes ago, Soy77 said:

Let's see, there's the bubonico, the amprex, acceltra, synapse, ignis wraith, phantasma, proboscis cernos, zhuge prime, just some from the top of my head. We still have bunch of kuva weapons that are excellent like zarr, bramma, or the still good nukor. Not to mention the new tenet weapons.

The lowest MR requirement of the things you mentioned is 8. Guess i'll just have to stick with melee for a while. I've also seen someone mention hek, but honestly, if something is in shotgun range i might aswell just slide-attack it instead.

And no, i did not get carried, literally the only time i play with squad is when farming endless missions.

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If ur unlucky or old or both  Capral Tunnel/Arthritis will set in and tapping the melee button repeatedly will start to hurt lol.   Then guns will be your friends lol.  

------------

For non steel path a gun with normal mods should rip through everything.   If you want to make even more powerful guns you need the new galvanized mods and primary/secondary arcanes.  

Theres lots of warframes that can make guns better or more effective.   Also a few abilities you can inject from helminth

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6 hours ago, ratemal said:

The lowest MR requirement of the things you mentioned is 8. Guess i'll just have to stick with melee for a while. I've also seen someone mention hek, but honestly, if something is in shotgun range i might aswell just slide-attack it instead.

And no, i did not get carried, literally the only time i play with squad is when farming endless missions.

Aside from the other possiblity that i could think of -that you just like slashing things more than you like shooting things, this is the last advice that i can offer:

dsX22j0.png

Most mr4 i know does not know how to mod whatsoever -even myself, because we haven't need to.

But if you're really struggling to make your guns stronger, there you go, the simplest basic gun modding. Bare in mind it's not the universal modding "rule", but it will get you really far.

Good luck, tenno.

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Veterans will tell you you're wrong, but I'm sorry to say you're completely right. I came back to the game recently, and whatever updates were made to the melee system made them enormously more powerful than they used to be. Melee weapons are easy mode for getting through the bulk of the game. Even going up against bosses with tiny hitboxes you're meant to aim for, it's easier to fly in and mash the stab button.

Veterans will also tell you that you just need better mods, but in practice, even unranked melee weapons tend to outperform guns. Mods will help, especially if you have an appropriate stance mod, but the real difference is in the base stats. Consider:

  • Burston: 30 damage
  • Kunai: 46 damage
  • Bo: 120 damage (light attack)

My impression is that raw base damage is the defining factor. Yes, guns have high firerate compared to the attack speed of melee weapons, but evidently that doesn't count for a lot with the way various damage reductions come into play. In mission, the damage numbers you'll see popping off of enemies will be closer to 10 for the Burston and 100 for the Bo.

Veterans have already said their piece on why guns are effective, which is completely valid at higher level play. Just don't expect to get there quickly, unless you follow specific advice on which guns are the best, which mods to upgrade, and where to get things like catalysts. It has taken me until MR15 to happen across a gun that can compete with unranked melee weapons.

Try beam weapons if you get the chance. They calculate damage in a more preferable way.

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