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Stop selfish lich/sister owners hiding.


Vulture051
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Lol at these threads.

 

So many previously were "if a lich shows up do not atab it, let it convert thralls", and then everyone gets salty because they've blown away all the troops and there are none to be converted to thralls and the lich gets bored and goes away.

Now its "you must stab it immediately or suffer the consequences of your actions".

 

Its pathetic. Just play the game and do not get upset at other people becuase you have the mentality of a spoilt 6 year old. The game becomes much better then. The best groups are those full of adults who don't mind what happens, you can fix things or run more missions. I've been in a group like that, 4 guys, chat, run, stab or not, and we carried each other from all having brand new sisters to RJ confrontation is almost 2 hours (one guy was very unlucky in his parazon choices). Sometimes stabbed, sometimes not, didn't matter.

The best thing about not stabbing is that the next mission the sister still shows up as they're still annoyed, only now you know more requiems so have a much better chance of defeating it. That, "less haste more speed" approach works very well indeed.

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Seems like the big problem was making it so liches don't level up if you don't stab them.  Any time you have a situation where the players on a squad will reasonably want different outcomes, you have a design problem.  DE seems to make this mistake quite a bit, like putting Granum Void in missions where some players will not want to go into that void. 

Need to either make it so no one wants the lich stabbed, or that everyone does.  Can't do the former with the system they've got, so it needs to be the latter.  Change it so that Liches level up when they show up, whether you stab them or not. If you don't stab, they call you a cowards and level up anyway.

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It seems like you expect pubs to pander to your playstyle and preferences, which is hilarious imo. Nobody is obliged to do anything in pubs - it's a free-for-all expect you just so happened to be on the same team, so either do pre-made groups or do it solo, like so many of us are already doing.

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2 hours ago, Phatose said:

Change it so that Liches level up when they show up, whether you stab them or not. If you don't stab, they call you a cowards and level up anyway.

Bad idea, forces players to move ahead to the next planet based entirely on RNG (I've had my Liches show up as soon as the third mission) and takes control away entirely.

People just need to either make a premade group, go solo, or accept that Public means "You don't get your ideal group every time", and I fall into the second pool.

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Just now, Aldain said:

Bad idea, forces players to move ahead to the next planet based entirely on RNG (I've had my Liches show up as soon as the third mission) and takes control away entirely.

People just need to either make a premade group, go solo, or accept that Public means "You don't get your ideal group every time", and I fall into the second pool.

Moving ahead based entirely on RNG is kind of Warframe's MO.  Could do it other ways though, I suppose, make it more deterministic.  Possibly a mission type particularly dedicated to farming Murmurs, so that matchmaking is working to bring people with similar goals together more easily.  The current situation should definitely be fixed.  I doubt it will be though.

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16 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Bad idea, forces players to move ahead to the next planet based entirely on RNG (I've had my Liches show up as soon as the third mission) and takes control away entirely.

People just need to either make a premade group, go solo, or accept that Public means "You don't get your ideal group every time", and I fall into the second pool.

An issue I have with the system overall is we have too much control over these Adversaries, they just wait until we actually engage their nodes and stuff... Nothing about them is that threatening. We're just using them for loot. It's so weird.

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3 minutes ago, (NSW)mrEkli said:

An issue I have with the system overall is we have too much control over these Adversaries, they just wait until we actually engage their nodes and stuff... Nothing about them is that threatening. We're just using them for loot. It's so weird.

The reason they're not threatening isn't because they're waiting on nodes and can be controlled, it is because they've been power crept into oblivion from increases to player power.

Making them more inconvenient doesn't magically make them a threat, it just makes them annoying.

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Posted (edited)
On 2021-08-14 at 11:20 PM, Duskztar said:

Nothing selfish about wanting to save 25 minutes of your own time vs some extra murmurs for randoms.

That's the definition of selfish. 😑 Literally. Screwing over others for yourself.

 

On 2021-08-15 at 8:22 AM, DrivaMain said:

Just down the nemesis 3 times to send it away. It's not a big deal.

Except they're worth a pile of credit and you get nothing when she just leaves. If everyone else in the group got murmurs when she just leaves (not you of course) you might have a point.

 

7 hours ago, Incongruous said:

It seems like you expect pubs to pander to your playstyle and preferences, which is hilarious imo.

V:"W-why did you  intentionally botch 2/3 of the vaults?"

I:"HEY! don't tell me how to play! Do the mission alone if you don't like it."

4 hours ago, Aldain said:

People just need to either make a premade group, go solo, or accept that Public means "You don't get your ideal group every time", and I fall into the second pool.

doubt.jpg You fall into the non-ideal side of #3 not #2 You expect me to go solo to fight liches because you don't fight liches solo.

Edited by Vulture051
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20 minutes ago, Vulture051 said:

Except they're worth a pile of credit and you get nothing when she just leaves. If everyone else in the group got murmurs when she just leaves (not you of course) you might have a point.

Credits are basically worthless and quickly piles up. If everyone get murmur except the owner that wouldn't be fair would it? 

Simplest thing to fix this issue is allow more nemesis to spawn if another nemesis is present. If Lich A  is present, don't stop Lich B, Lich C, and Lich D from spawning. What about the health bar? Well that's up to DE to figure it out.

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Posted (edited)

Not credits, credit. Murmurs, and it would be very fair since we're talking about someone that didn't kill their lich. What's unfair is everyone else getting nothing because you didn't want your lich to level up.

Edited by Vulture051
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1 hour ago, Vulture051 said:

doubt.jpg You fall into the non-ideal side of #3 not #2 You expect me to go solo to fight liches because you don't fight liches solo.

The second pool in that list is the "solos all their liches" pool by the way.

I haven't done even one of my Liches in a public match.

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I really don't get the problem that people have with those that don't stab. Why do you expect anyone to inconvenience themselves to help you in a public game? If people actually stuck around and helped rather than instantly peace out of the group after the mission it may have had some merit. But now that isn't the case. Technically you're shooting yourself in the foot with that one since the one that didn't stab in the mission may be ready to stab in the next one and still have a pissed of lich. But since people leave they just roll the dice again.

So basically what you want is for people to waste their time so you can leech off of their murmur gains, right? Id argue that both sides of this are equally selfish. In either case if you want to impose special rules form a group of your own or play solo and don't play in public, the end.

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Theres already a thread in general were people went over why stabbing blindly your lich before finding the first mod is the dumbest thing you can do in lich hunts. So I wont go over that again. A bigger problem seems to be people that dont know what the F is going on and wont even attempt to get rid of them via downing them.

Bt769wb.jpg

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On 2021-08-15 at 4:10 AM, Vulture051 said:

So you want someone else to waste another 25min get get enough murmurs just to fulfill your selfish weakness?

This is incorrect. A failed litch gives 10 murmurs, which is the number of murmurs you can get from a mission with all thralls spawning.
A 5 minutes Survival is 5 times shorter than 25 minutes doing multiple missions hoping for a Lich to spawn. Sisters are even faster and they spawn with an extra hound.

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8 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Simplest thing to fix this issue is allow more nemesis to spawn if another nemesis is present. If Lich A  is present, don't stop Lich B, Lich C, and Lich D from spawning. What about the health bar? Well that's up to DE to figure it out.

Everyone can attack the lich and down it three times to get ti to go away. The devs time would be better spent fixing the bug that doesnt make it so.

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9 hours ago, Vulture051 said:

That's the definition of selfish. 😑 Literally. Screwing over others for yourself.

 

Except they're worth a pile of credit and you get nothing when she just leaves. If everyone else in the group got murmurs when she just leaves (not you of course) you might have a point.

 

V:"W-why did you  intentionally botch 2/3 of the vaults?"

I:"HEY! don't tell me how to play! Do the mission alone if you don't like it."

doubt.jpg You fall into the non-ideal side of #3 not #2 You expect me to go solo to fight liches because you don't fight liches solo.

I know you're just trying to be pettily edgy here, but you're just proving my point. Behaviors like yours is why I opted out of doing Liches/Sisters in pubs, instead doing them mainly solo, or with my alliance and buddies if they need some assistance. 

Pubs have been a free-for-all since the start. You being mad is not going to change a thing.

Edited by Incongruous
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18 hours ago, Phatose said:

Change it so that Liches level up when they show up, whether you stab them or not. If you don't stab, they call you a cowards and level up anyway.

The mechanism isn't that bad. DE changed it, so if you shoot the lich 3 times, it disappears anyway (without levelling up). There's no need to actualyl stab it, just shoot it and it'll go away like the stabbers want without levelling up like the non-0stabbers want.

Its crazy that the ones complaining the most are the ones who understand how the system works. If they want the lich to go, they can shoot it until it runs away.

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The OP is absolutely right. If someone wants to use a different strategy to the vast majority of other players who do kill the lich so other players can have theirs spawn in the same run, then piss off and do it solo. People are spending their time grinding down the lich (and dying on occasion) for the owner to stand around do nothing. Again, do it solo.

 

Edited by (PSN)SABRETOOTH1971
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23 minutes ago, gbjbaanb said:

The mechanism isn't that bad. DE changed it, so if you shoot the lich 3 times, it disappears anyway (without levelling up). There's no need to actualyl stab it, just shoot it and it'll go away like the stabbers want without levelling up like the non-0stabbers want.

Its crazy that the ones complaining the most are the ones who understand how the system works. If they want the lich to go, they can shoot it until it runs away.

liches arnt threatening and ur response does not help

thy should just get ride of litch nodes altogether and make them sawn in any noe on the planet, including the thralls, witch will be the same level as the litch regardes of the level, and they should take all of he resources, not some of them, regardless if thy have that planet or not, basically stalking u nomaddr where u are until u get rid of them

linches don actively make people go out of their way to try t get rid of them, but they should

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21 minutes ago, (PSN)Spider_Enigma said:

and ur response does not help

My response is perfect - it is the way the system works. If more people knew it, they woulnd't be complaining on the forums. They'd stab it if they wanted, and they'd shoot it if they didn't. Either way, there is nothing to be so salty, antagonistic or plain rude and spiteful about - all things we have seen in these threads repeatedly.

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48 minutes ago, (PSN)SABRETOOTH1971 said:

The OP is absolutely right. If someone wants to use a different strategy to the vast majority of other players who do kill the lich so other players can have theirs spawn in the same run, then piss off and do it solo. People are spending their time grinding down the lich (and dying on occasion) for the owner to stand around do nothing. Again, do it solo.

No, it's the other way around. If YOU personally don't like how people play in pubs it should be YOU who should play in solo or premade groups. Nobody is obliged to do ANYTHING in pubs, no matter how much you scream at them and how "wrong" their actions are from your point of view.

A person with half-a-brain always knows to expect absolutely nothing when joining pubs because you don't know who you're going to be matched with. There are as many ways of playing as there are players and all of them (barring the actions forbidden by TOS) are valid no matter how much you deny it.

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13 minutes ago, Incongruous said:

People are spending their time grinding down the lich (and dying on occasion) for the owner to stand around do nothing. Again, do it solo.

People who do nothing and people who down it 3 times without stabbing are not the same people. They shouldnt be confused when name calling and arguing is done.

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12 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said:

People who do nothing and people who down it 3 times without stabbing are not the same people. They shouldnt be confused when name calling and arguing is done.

Are you sure you wanted to quote me? It looks like you quoted what I was quoting

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1 hour ago, Incongruous said:

Are you sure you wanted to quote me? It looks like you quoted what I was quoting

I meant lich owners. There are people like the one in my SS earlier that just leave it there for others to deal with. Then there are those that actively help in downing their own lich. 

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2 hours ago, Antarian882 said:

I know easy solution for this problem. Remove mumur bonus for party members after stab, you get mumur for stabing only your own lich. there fixed for you guys :D

This is what I was gonna suggest, just to make all this bickering go away.

DE was trying to be nice and give people a little bonus, but then people started demanding it like it was their due. A lich is a PERSONAL nemesis. What you do with dealing with your own nemesis is up to you. SOME players cannot handle a leveled up Lich, so "always stabbing" is NEVER going to be a one-size-fits-all solution.

Forcing those people who can't deal with the power of a lich to now solo them because they're not stabbing them to not level them up, but they still need to farm murmurs (in a co-op game everyone keeps claiming is so important of a feature that everyone should always want to play in a group)... is kinda backwards thinking there guys.

Always downing a Lich/Sister is reasonable to expect for people who have kept up with all the changes to the system, but there are plenty of people who don't read the message boards and don't read patch notes, and don't watch dev streams, and just know how it worked when the system launched. It's going to be a long educational campaign every time you encounter people who haven't kept up. I don't expect everyone who's ever played, and stopped for a while if they hated liches when they first launched, to come back and research it, expecting some sort of change to the system. (things go untouched for years, there's no reason to expect that would have changed.)

And if someone isn't downing their Lich... YOU CAN DO IT YOURSELF... and most of the people claiming this is a problem are people who say they can handle a level 5 nemesis solo, no problem anyway... no issue here. If someone misses their lich because the team downs it too fast... oh well, shoulda solo'd it?

Be civil people. Play nice. Let people play how they want. Don't expect things to go your way.

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