Stop selfish lich/sister owners hiding.

[sitfesz]

43 minutes ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

A lich is a PERSONAL nemesis. What you do with dealing with your own nemesis is up to you.

Damage your lich yourself then and don't leech firepower.

43 minutes ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

Forcing those people who can't deal with the power of a lich to now solo them because they're not stabbing them to not level them up, but they still need to farm murmurs

Farm their own murmurs then and don't cling on others +10 when they stab.

These 2 are absolutely fine as they almost always find a public party to farm murmur or to finish their lich. Them relying on extra murmur and help, while not giving anything in return with not stabbing is not fine.

43 minutes ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

but there are plenty of people who don't read the message boards and don't read patch notes

And they won't ever, if they don't get a reaction to their action, but that extra murmur is so good.

If everyone always stabbed, everyones average lich progress would be faster. It's about the murmur, not just the lich staying and preventing other lich spawns, 10 murmurs is a whole mission. You set 3 other people a mission away from their progress by not stabbing, while you can get 40 murmurs in a single mission if the other 3 does stab. 10 murmurs if they choose to not. It's a mission per lich mostly and when you are unlucky, because snowflakes shoo away their liches 2 times in the same mission, you can get frustrated, because you just got ripped of the 200% extra murmurs you could have got on that mission.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

Yep, removing the Murmur bonus to party members would be a great change, given the attitude at work here.

[Vulture051]

13 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

This is incorrect. A failed litch gives 10 murmurs, which is the number of murmurs you can get from a mission with all thralls spawning.
A 5 minutes Survival is 5 times shorter than 25 minutes doing multiple missions hoping for a Lich to spawn. Sisters are even faster and they spawn with an extra hound.

We're not doing missions hoping a lich will spawn, well most of the time, we're doing it for murmurs and you're screwing us out of a big chunk of them. Not all missions are survival, in a Capture for example chances are the mission will be over before all the thralls spawn so yeah not killing the lich if it does happen to pop up is a significant loss.

 

15 hours ago, Vahenir said:

I really don't get the problem that people have with those that don't stab. Why do you expect anyone to inconvenience themselves to help you in a public game?

You're inconveniencing everyone else by not. If you don't wanna be a team player, solo the mission. We're not your spectres.

 

13 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

Theres already a thread in general were people went over why stabbing blindly your lich before finding the first mod is the dumbest thing you can do in lich hunts. So I wont go over that again. A bigger problem seems to be people that dont know what the F is going on and wont even attempt to get rid of them via downing them.

Solo until you get your first mod. Simple.

 

10 hours ago, gbjbaanb said:

The mechanism isn't that bad. DE changed it, so if you shoot the lich 3 times, it disappears anyway (without levelling up). There's no need to actualyl stab it, just shoot it and it'll go away like the stabbers want without levelling up like the non-0stabbers want.

We don't want it to just go away. What, you think we're angry because we don't get to shoot it anymore? We want the murmurs and get nothing if you don't stab it.

Hell, I would have 0 issue if you get nothing but we get murmurs like you did stab it. That would be an actual win-win, your lich doesn't level and we don't get shafted because you decided to farm liches/sisters before you're ready.

 

9 hours ago, Incongruous said:

No, it's the other way around. If YOU personally don't like how people play in pubs it should be YOU who should play in solo or premade groups.

Team:

"W-why did you  intentionally botch 2/3 of the vaults?"

"Limbo, stop rifting the damn enemies!"

"Please let me get Mutation stacks."

"Could you maybe rez me? I'm right here."

"There's radiation everywhere, please stop using that Ogris."

"Just stay on the point man, this Interception is taking forever"

"Loki! Stop teleport switching the captive!"

"Did you really name your kubrow 'KillTheJuice'?"

"That's the fifth time you've speedpad-ed me off a cliff Vauban..."

Incongruous: "HEY! don't tell me how to play! Do the mission alone if you don't like it. You're the problem not me!"

Your take on this subject is ludicrous.

 

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

2 hours ago, Vulture051 said:

You're inconveniencing everyone else by not. If you don't wanna be a team player, solo the mission. We're not your spectres.

Likewise as well, since public players are NOT yours to demand and order to do your bidding.  If you join my squad that is set to public, then you should expect NOTHING from me since that is the way FREEDOM works here in America. My game, my actions.  You are beginning to sound like a whiny child that deserves a Time-Out with all this demanding people do what you want cuz you want it.  I don't like many stupid things that players do, but not much I can do about except play solo or deal with it. Just close this topic already as its not going to accomplish anything unless you have a specific solution to solve your problem.  Some players have actually given possible solutions for your Lich issue so pass them along to DE so that they can maybe do something.  That would be the most productive solution instead of making demands of PUBLIC players.

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

[Test-995]

3 hours ago, Vulture051 said:

Team:

"W-why did you  intentionally botch 2/3 of the vaults?"

"Limbo, stop rifting the damn enemies!"

"Please let me get Mutation stacks."

"Could you maybe rez me? I'm right here."

"There's radiation everywhere, please stop using that Ogris."

"Just stay on the point man, this Interception is taking forever"

"Loki! Stop teleport switching the captive!"

"Did you really name your kubrow 'KillTheJuice'?"

"That's the fifth time you've speedpad-ed me off a cliff Vauban..."

Incongruous: "HEY! don't tell me how to play! Do the mission alone if you don't like it. You're the problem not me!"

Your take on this subject is ludicrous.

 

I won't say any of those really, in fact, anyone with sane mind should expect those from public.

If you don't like it? go solo or premade, I guess.

[T-Shark69]

4 hours ago, Vulture051 said:

We're not doing missions hoping a lich will spawn, well most of the time, we're doing it for murmurs and you're screwing us out of a big chunk of them. Not all missions are survival, in a Capture for example chances are the mission will be over before all the thralls spawn so yeah not killing the lich if it does happen to pop up is a significant loss.

Survival was an example. You can treat capture as an exterminate and take it slower to spawn thralls. You're there to get murmur after all, not speedrun to the exit. 
In sister runs is also good to wait a good 30 seconds before extraction since sisters can spawn. Havent tried it with liches tho.
My message shows that the time it takes to spawn 10 thralls is shorter than it takes to spawn a lich. I dont seem to see you proving otherwise. 

>We're not doing missions hoping a lich will spawn

There's a whole thread about why always stabbing is dumb. Actually there's two. Dont drag me again into this and go read those.

[T-Shark69]

4 hours ago, Vulture051 said:

Team:

"W-why did you  intentionally botch 2/3 of the vaults?"

"Limbo, stop rifting the damn enemies!"

"Please let me get Mutation stacks."

"Could you maybe rez me? I'm right here."

"There's radiation everywhere, please stop using that Ogris."

"Just stay on the point man, this Interception is taking forever"

"Loki! Stop teleport switching the captive!"

"Did you really name your kubrow 'KillTheJuice'?"

"That's the fifth time you've speedpad-ed me off a cliff Vauban..."

Incongruous: "HEY! don't tell me how to play! Do the mission alone if you don't like it. You're the problem not me!"

Your take on this subject is ludicrous.

 

Imagine likening people who dont want to screw themselves over for the small benefit of randos who will leave at the end of the mission, to people who intentionally grief and ruin the gameplay. Pathetic. You demand murmurs from public but you clearly dont deserve it.

[----Legacy----]

5 hours ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

Forcing those people who can't deal with the power of a lich to now solo them because they're not stabbing them to not level them up, but they still need to farm murmurs (in a co-op game everyone keeps claiming is so important of a feature that everyone should always want to play in a group)... is kinda backwards thinking there guys.

People who can't deal with the power of a Lich probably shouldn't engage with the system to begin with, at least until they understand how these work and get gear good enough to handle them.

And i'm not gonna buy the "spawned one by mistake" excuse since the candidates/larvlings require holding the interaction key for a few seconds in order to spawn a sister/lich, and not wanting to rank them up isn't an excuse either if we keep in mind that showdown mission can be made with a squad and that players have already found different workarounds to deal with lich/sister new damage mitigation.

[Incongruous]

5 hours ago, Vulture051 said:

"W-why did you  intentionally botch 2/3 of the vaults?"

"Limbo, stop rifting the damn enemies!"

"Please let me get Mutation stacks."

"Could you maybe rez me? I'm right here."

"There's radiation everywhere, please stop using that Ogris."

"Just stay on the point man, this Interception is taking forever"

"Loki! Stop teleport switching the captive!"

"Did you really name your kubrow 'KillTheJuice'?"

"That's the fifth time you've speedpad-ed me off a cliff Vauban..."

Incongruous: "HEY! don't tell me how to play! Do the mission alone if you don't like it. You're the problem not me!"

Your take on this subject is ludicrous.

What a mature take on the subject. Quality entertainment. At least I had a good laugh in the morning.

[CephalonCarnage]

7 hours ago, Vulture051 said:

We don't want it to just go away. What, you think we're angry because we don't get to shoot it anymore? We want the murmurs and get nothing if you don't stab it.

Hell, I would have 0 issue if you get nothing but we get murmurs like you did stab it. That would be an actual win-win, your lich doesn't level and we don't get shafted because you decided to farm liches/sisters before you're ready.

and they say the people not stabbing are the selfish ones 🤷‍♂️

[CephalonCarnage]

2 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

People who can't deal with the power of a Lich probably shouldn't engage with the system to begin with, at least until they understand how these work and get gear good enough to handle them

that is true, but... read the forums you see enough people who kill a larvling, see the shiny weapon, press x and then wonder why they have this weird grineer talking to them after they exit. The issue is that DE does not describe the process enough for a player who does not already know the process (sound familiar?!) and so we end up with people with liches, people who try to deal with them without quite knowing what to do, sometimes even posting to the forums for help and advice of getting rid of it.

DE's game designers are the problem.

[Aldain]

12 hours ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

Yep, removing the Murmur bonus to party members would be a great change, given the attitude at work here.

Yep, if this is how people are going to act then nobody should get anything.

[(NSW)Gamer-Steve]

There is one small question I have here, after reading through the thread (Not intending to get off topic if I am);

• Regarding the not-stabbing part, hypothetically speaking what if someone's Lich showed up and they didn't stab them immediately in order to create 10 more thralls. Then they stab the Lich as usual; Would that be considered alright? I'm not sure if this was asked specifically.

 

I've largely always been working on my Liches (& recently my first Sister) solo, so I wasn't aware of multiple Liches spawning in non-Railjack missions, if I understood that correctly based on what some have said here. Originally, I thought that only one person's Lich would show up in a Starchart mission based off of whoever chose the mission, since their Lich's name / territory node would show up on the top-left for a squad to vote on; Or maybe the host's Lich perhaps, as an example.

 

I was mainly curious, just trying to piece together what's been going on with Public Lich murmur things recently after hearing about things like this; Initially the fastest way I was aware of was to let your Lich create 10 thralls, then try to stab the Lich / test your Requiems, and only after the Lich leaves stab all the thralls to somewhat accelerate the Lich's anger (& coincidentally get some more murmurs for it). Oull definitely makes that process more interesting, as far as that goes.

[Drasiel]

On 2021-08-14 at 4:15 PM, sitfesz said:

Finally, thank you.

Exactly.
People say who insists on always stabbing are the ones want to leech the murmurs, but people who join public and don't stab are the real leech, because they get murmurs from others liches, but they don't give any.

If you are afraid your lich will be spawn and you don't want to stab, because you don't know the mods, just go solo. Non-stabbers are just skipping their round of buying drinks at the table.

I'm sure more people would go solo if DE didn't actively punish you for it. When you are solo only 5 thralls will spawn and if your lich appears it can only convert 5 other grineer. As soon as you have 1 other person that goes up to 10 and 10.

Regardless I'm firmly of the camp that if you are going into public matches you don't get to dictate what other people do with their lich. They don't want to stab them? that's fine there are lots of reasons you wouldn't want too. They don't want to down it three times? Fine, a little rude but I can clear them out. They want to stab them before they can convert any bonus thralls thus depriving the entire group of 10 additional thralls? You do you fam there's always another mission. If you want to play with people that will always stab their lich recruit chat is right there.

[T-Shark69]

20 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

I'm sure more people would go solo if DE didn't actively punish you for it. When you are solo only 5 thralls will spawn and if your lich appears it can only convert 5 other grineer. As soon as you have 1 other person that goes up to 10 and 10.

Is this a new change? I solo'd my liches and they always converted 10 thralls and dfinitely more than 5 thralls spawned per mission.

[T-Shark69]

14 hours ago, (NSW)Gamer-Steve said:

Regarding the not-stabbing part, hypothetically speaking what if someone's Lich showed up and they didn't stab them immediately in order to create 10 more thralls. Then they stab the Lich as usual; Would that be considered alright? I'm not sure if this was asked specifically.

Depends if your team can be bothered to wait or not. More murmur is pretty redundant now that you just need 2 mods discovered. Thralls conversion also requires enemies in the vicinity so you have to stand there and do nothing while waiting for the lich to convert them.  Liches take forever to spawn so one can farm all the murmur theyre gonna need from normal missions anw. It's the most efficient way to get murmurs but not ideal.

[(NSW)Gamer-Steve]

8 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

Depends if your team can be bothered to wait or not. More murmur is pretty redundant now that you just need 2 mods discovered. Thralls conversion also requires enemies in the vicinity so you have to stand there and do nothing while waiting for the lich to convert them.  Liches take forever to spawn so one can farm all the murmur theyre gonna need from normal missions anw. It's the most efficient way to get murmurs but not ideal.

Ah, that makes sense. The reason why I tend to let them create more thralls would be to have a small headstart on the Lich's anger, hopefully lowering the time until they spawn again (I'm thinking of saving Lich lures until I'm down to my last few Weapons, etc.). Oull certainly does help when it comes to figuring out the hidden sequence though, since I've gotten into a rhythm of sorts with the routine.

 

Regarding the Thrall totals, I've certainly been seeing 10 new thralls from the Lich's presence since the SoP update, and usually more than 5-6 thralls beforehand per Lich node (Roughly closer to 10 in a single run if the Lich doesn't spawn), so I think that part's still there. Although I think it would be nice if a previous planet could remain open to Lich territory instead of just having them jump overboard to the next planet; That's one thing I really liked about the Lich system before, since it let you have a greater variety of nodes to choose from, even though that may be more of the same mission type.

 

I have noticed that endless mission types spawn thralls faster though, at least the Survival nodes seem to. I can't recall off the top of my head if that was the case before Sisters of Parvos or not.

[T-Shark69]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Gamer-Steve said:

Ah, that makes sense. The reason why I tend to let them create more thralls would be to have a small headstart on the Lich's anger, hopefully lowering the time until they spawn again .

I have noticed that endless mission types spawn thralls faster though, at least the Survival nodes seem to. I can't recall off the top of my head if that was the case before Sisters of Parvos or not.

If you mean to mercy the thralls only after you've stabbed the Lich to get more anger out of it, that cant be done anymore. When the mission ends after a stab attempt the rage meter resets. Which is one of the main reasons i dont stab before i know the first mod now.

Thralls spawn after a certain amount of kills so in endless missions it's easier since a lot of enemies spawn. Enemy density is a good reason to play in groups. Doesnt matter for Sisters tho since hounds are on a timer.

[(NSW)Gamer-Steve]

9 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said:

If you mean to mercy the thralls only after you've stabbed the Lich to get more anger out of it, that cant be done anymore. When the mission ends after a stab attempt the rage meter resets. Which is one of the main reasons i dont stab before i know the first mod now.

Thralls spawn after a certain amount of kills so in endless missions it's easier since a lot of enemies spawn. Enemy density is a good reason to play in groups. Doesnt matter for Sisters tho since hounds are on a timer.

That's surprising! I don't even think the wiki specifies that regarding the anger resetting (Currently it still mentions failing a sequence will reset the anger, basically). But yeh, that was what I'd been doing for quite some time (Occasional requiem relics were a nice bonus). I'm not sure why the anger's totally reset when the mission is over; I don't think I saw that in any patch notes. I'll have to take a closer look at that for the next time I go up against a Lich.

 

Would a Sister's anger reset as well upon mission completion? Or perhaps only if Sisters / Liches are below Lv5?

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

On 2021-08-17 at 11:33 AM, Incongruous said:

No, it's the other way around. If YOU personally don't like how people play in pubs it should be YOU who should play in solo or premade groups. Nobody is obliged to do ANYTHING in pubs, no matter how much you scream at them and how "wrong" their actions are from your point of view.

A person with half-a-brain always knows to expect absolutely nothing when joining pubs because you don't know who you're going to be matched with. There are as many ways of playing as there are players and all of them (barring the actions forbidden by TOS) are valid no matter how much you deny it.

Wrong. When you enter a pub match, you know what you are signing up for: to be in a TEAM. Meaning you are obligated to help one another. None of this "I didn't wanna so screw you" bs. 

[Incongruous]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Boomstickman98 said:

Wrong. When you enter a pub match, you know what you are signing up for: to be in a TEAM. Meaning you are obligated to help one another. None of this "I didn't wanna so screw you" bs. 

Alright then, please point me to the place it says so in TOS, because you really seem to be mistaking silly things like ingame etiquette and "honor rules" created by players and followed by few, for rules set in stone by the devs. In pubs nobody owes you anything beyond being active and not actively griefing like holding onto the datamass or rad-procing themselves to kill others for fun. And no, refusing to stab your Lich/Sister is not griefing.

[Drasiel]

11 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

Is this a new change? I solo'd my liches and they always converted 10 thralls and dfinitely more than 5 thralls spawned per mission.

It was how they originally worked, I'm actually hoping by your statement that may have been changed and slipped by me. Which would be delightful because then I can avoid little johnny explosives.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

15 minutes ago, Incongruous said:

Alright then, please point me to the place it says so in TOS, because you really seem to be mistaking silly things like ingame etiquette and "honor rules" created by players and followed by few, for rules set in stone by the devs. In pubs nobody owes you anything beyond being active and not actively griefing like holding onto the datamass or rad-procing themselves to kill others for fun. And no, refusing to stab your Lich/Sister is not griefing.

Everything in this game points to it being co-op. in fact, all you have to do is search Warframe and you get this: 

Quote

Ninjas Play Free. A third-person, co-op focused action game at its core, Warframe situates players as members of the Tenno race, newly awoken after years of ...

You know what that means? You are expected to be a team player. Oh and btw: 

Quote

When a lich/sister spawns, show who's lich/sister it is. That doesn't guarantee they'll stab it, of course, but it does mean they can't pretend it's somebody else's. If they wanna be like that, let them own their actions.

•  

In other words, OP is trying to get an extra little bit o code so we know who owns the lich. That's it.

[Incongruous]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)Boomstickman98 said:

Everything in this game points to it being co-op. in fact, all you have to do is search Warframe and you get this: 

 

You know what that means? You are expected to be a team player. 

And I'm still waiting for a valid point backed up by TOS about how we absolutely have to work together and have the exact same goal in mind when playing. Right now you've just thrown a loose marketing line meant to entice new players, not a genuine rule made by DE. Yeah, it's a co-op game, but just barely. Co-op has no set definitions, but it's widely accepted that a loose one would be something like: Co-op is a gamemode where players work together to achieve a common goal.

A common goal is the main mission objective and can have me B-lining to the objective and extraction in SP alert to get my 5 SE while you're set on waiting for the Acolyte. We started with a common goal that was set before us by the game, but you decide on give yourself your own personalized objective while I already completed mine. And guess what? Both are valid. But you can't expect every random in pubs to follow your logic, because in that example, I already did what I wanted and it's YOU who's wasting my time.

Anytime you want to be sure that everything is going according to your plan, you have to create a premade group for that, otherwise you risk getting a random who just wants to get things over with, or instead of doing the objective you want to do they're looking for cashes or doing their own thing.

That is why I repeat: You can't expect other pub players to do anything beyond not leeching or griefing and at contributing at least a bit to the mission objective.

31 minutes ago, (PSN)Boomstickman98 said:

In other words, OP is trying to get an extra little bit o code so we know who owns the lich. That's it.

And with that in mind, what do you think, what would that change? If you were able to see the IGN of a player who's refusing to stab his lich above their head... Will you report them to the support? Will you go on reddit/forums and complain? What CAN you do when that player is not doing ANYTHING against the TOS and is only "violating" some imaginary etiquette that some people have codded in their heads? It won't change anything beyond adding even more toxicity to this already jumpy community.

[(PSN)jockhotty]

It depends on a few various things now depending where you are.... whether they programmed it that way or not. It seem as though they have programmed some captures or poor performing nodes to be repeated if you were misered to get ripped off to the max. I have only got my 3 kuva guns with this update so Im done w Lich for awhile. I am done w sisters too but I am a pro at them as it was an insane amount of work and insane BAD LUCK to get all the guns and ephems. Until the next update I learned every trick in the book.

Public match you do whatever you darn want. You dont like it, make your own squad. There are plenty of players that need a big slap in the face. Having said that you might message the squad what you are upto, like doing things crazy cuz of a riven or forgetting to put your code in or asking forgiveness for not cooperating in the expected normal way.