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It's becoming absurdly difficult to make specialized builds


Tauthe
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So... it's time for another rant post. With the introductions of primed versions of mods, builds can reach another level of power and that's freaking awesome, but there's a problem where now you can't specialize in every build. Primed, galvanized, amalgam, sacrificial, Umbral, Riven... every one of them have something in common, his freaking mod capacity. I'm not saying that is too high, the problem is not with the mods, nor with the capacity, it's with the polarities!!

Try to do a slowva, quickva and a null star Nova. Nope.

Try to do a support, eidolon and solo Chroma. Nope.

Try to do despoil, shadows and a balanced Nekros. Nope.

Try to do infected globe, grineer/corpus globe and strength Frost. Nope.

Try to do a Primed Astilla with 3 builds like I have, one for full dmg+crit, one for full status with galvanized mods and one with hunter munitions. You can't.

I want to make a point here, you TOTALLY CAN do every one of these builds on one single frame/weapon, what I'm trying to say is that you're limited because of the polarities. You're forced to use a normal/lower version of a mod (vitality instead of umbra vitality, Augur reach instead of Reach, rage instead of hunter adrenaline, 60/60 instead of 90 mods... You get my point). Why bother to give us the tools to make our builds stronger if you limit my possibilities putting the polarity on every config of my frame/weapon? I like the idea to give me more config slots, but with i will bother to buy it??

 

So here's my idea, instead of putting a polarity on every config of my build, let me select on witch config I want that polarity, like when I'm overwriting a config with another config.

1. I choose a forma.

jOWC7IW.png

2. I choose the configs on which I want a polarity. wrdCyD6.png

3. Now I choose the polarity and slot, and it will install on the configs I selected before

4. Profit!

 

I really love endurance missions, specialized builds and the simulacrum (I really love the #*!%ing simulacrum, I have HUNDREDS of hours inside it xD), and before you can do specialized builds, but now.... You're being forced to get another copy of that frame/weapon or re-format your polarities (with the loss of previous builds, obviously) if you want to try something new or just investigate the possibilities of a combination.

I will say it again for the people that jump here, the problem is not with the capacity of the weapon/frames, nor with the mod requeriment, nor with the configs.

The problem is the method we use to polarize our builds.

PLEASE, let me choose on which configs I put my formas.... Thank you.

Edited by Tauthe
I FORGOT THE #*!%ING RIVENS
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Sounds like an overcomplicated solution to something we've already solved for years with multiple copies or by just not going through the unnecessary min-maxing.

And it isn't even like this would save much over getting duplicate items when you're still going to be going through the extra Forma and re-ranking.

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hace 3 minutos, (NSW)Greybones dijo:

Er. Before you could do specialised builds, but now you're forced to get another copy of the item? What changed?

The new categories of mods. On warframes: Before you can just put a few primes (continuity, flow), transient fortitude, blind rage and you're good to go. Now try fit both umbra, both primed and both corrupted XD On weapons: Serration, split chamber, heavy caliber it's fine. Now try a riven, with few primed (bane faction, primed cryo, galvanized and such), and so on, and so on... I hope you get my point, as i said, the problems are not the new mods, it's the way we polarize.

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Posted (edited)
hace 12 minutos, Rawbeard dijo:

have you tried installing a potato?

I'd tried to install MULTIPLE potato but it wont work.... sad

 

hace 14 minutos, trst dijo:

Sounds like an overcomplicated solution to something we've already solved for years with multiple copies or by just not going through the unnecessary min-maxing.

And it isn't even like this would save much over getting duplicate items when you're still going to be going through the extra Forma and re-ranking.

Maybe some people like the fashion frame as his end game, i like min-maxing and I DO HAVE multiple copies of multiple mods beacuse what i said in my post, i like the symulacrum.

Flow4Q3Ca32.png

ContinuityEeuok8E.png

Transient fortitude

9OUYYRX.png

xmw29Sa.png

FFS I even have 2 Primed Vigor on my account XD4vcC5F4.png

Edited by Tauthe
Added vigor prime
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A more simpler solution would be have every warframe or weapon function like Kuva/Tenet Weapons, Necramechs, and the Paracesis. Putting a forma on something will increase the maximum rank by 2, up to rank 40, which gives up to +20 mod capacity in total. I only use Kuva and Tenet weapons 99% of the time because polarizing them is much less of a hassle, and I can get them up to their full potential without formaing every slot unlike most weapons.

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Posted (edited)
hace 13 minutos, Circle_of_Psi dijo:

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to out-right Farm or Buy a Umbra Forma (Outside of BS wave)

 

But I can max out my builds with even only 2 Umbra Mods, no issue.

You can buy umbral forma (steel essence rotation). And i will love another ways of getting umbral forma but the problem is not only with warframes, it's with weapons too. I think we should solve this by getting to the root, the polarities. They add a complexity to the game that i like, but the way they force us to use them... it's a no no for me.

Also, the problem is bigger on weapons, we only have 4 primed warframe mods + umbra, don't make me count the weapon ones, and you need to add the amalgam, galvanized, riven.... etc

hace 14 minutos, (XBOX)Holy Reaper3076 dijo:

A more simpler solution would be have every warframe or weapon function like Kuva/Tenet Weapons, Necramechs, and the Paracesis. Putting a forma on something will increase the maximum rank by 2, up to rank 40, which gives up to +20 mod capacity in total. I only use Kuva and Tenet weapons 99% of the time because polarizing them is much less of a hassle, and I can get them up to their full potential without formaing every slot unlike most weapons.

That's a great idea! But i said it before, that only mean they will add the next mods with a requeriment of 20, 25 or more capacity, as i said it before, we should attack the root of the problem.

 

(Whispering: But i like your idea too XD)

Edited by Tauthe
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I kind of wish a ludicrous amount of forma on an equipment would also be an alternate path to being able to fit things other than other intuitive suggestions. Sometimes brute forcing it... is the simple but inefficient way people want to take. Like me!

 

It's unfortunate that's not even an option.

Edited by Turritopsis_Dohrnii
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44 minutes ago, Tauthe said:

PLEASE, let me choose on which configs I put my formas.... Thank you.

Like people said it would be nice if every forma unlocks polarities that you can change any slot.

For example (|| shows where one potential list of polarities ends/starts):

- 1 forma V: no polarities || V

- 2 forma V -: no polarities || V || V - || -

 

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Posted (edited)
hace 6 minutos, quxier dijo:

Like people said it would be nice if every forma unlocks polarities that you can change any slot.

For example (|| shows where one potential list of polarities ends/starts):

- 1 forma V: no polarities || V

- 2 forma V -: no polarities || V || V - || -

 

Ohhh S#&$, that's a great idea too. You can just get another forma like the aura forma, that unlocks all the polarities on the slot you put it. +1

EDIT: Now that I'm thinking... but at what cost! Look at the umbra forma, i don't want another way of farming one thing I REALLY NEED... I think the idea of selecting the config on which i want the forma is better. Thank you for the idea!

Edited by Tauthe
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Next rant will be for the ammount of mod slots...

The whole idea it's doing "trade off" (the corrupted mods are the prime example of this) on efficiency or power on most cases, depending if it's a frame, companion or weapon the needs (and the trade offs) will be different and you need to fit something according to your needs but with a limited selection on what you want to bring

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hace 1 minuto, vanaukas dijo:

Next rant will be for the ammount of mod slots...

The whole idea it's doing "trade off" (the corrupted mods are the prime example of this) on efficiency or power on most cases, depending if it's a frame, companion or weapon the needs (and the trade offs) will be different and you need to fit something according to your needs but with a limited selection on what you want to bring

We don't need to rant about the mod slots, they give it to us for free XD Look at the exilus and arcanes on weapons, we didn't ask for them. Companions too? I think they had only 8 slots and they upgraded them to 10? I don't remember if this changed too.

I get your point, but i think you need to wait and read my post again because that's the meaning of MIN-MAXING too. The problem is not the trade offs of one build, it's the fact that i can't do all the possibilities of a frame/weapon without being forced to get another copy or sacrifice builds that I already have min-maxed... Thank you!

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2 minutes ago, Tauthe said:

We don't need to rant about the mod slots, they give it to us for free XD Look at the exilus and arcanes on weapons, we didn't ask for them. Companions too? I think they had only 8 slots and they upgraded them to 10? I don't remember if this changed too.

I get your point, but i think you need to wait and read my post again because that's the meaning of MIN-MAXING too. The problem is not the trade offs of one build, it's the fact that i can't do all the possibilities of a frame/weapon without being forced to get another copy or sacrifice builds that I already have min-maxed... Thank you!

that's the whole point of min maxing tho, otherwise would be just "maxing" without limitations 🙄

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Maybe there could be a compromise and a middle ground between a free alternative to bypass the duplicate frame requirement and an awful grind for another super rare item;

Universal Forma Adapter:

-Takes ~5 Forma each to craft+some generic resources found everywhere

-Relatively common, it could be an Arbitration or Steel Path vendor item. (Arbitration would make more sense imo. because everyone playing/whoever played the mode for the Arcanes has excess Arbi tokens)

That's about it, no endless hours sitting in Bounties, no Lich drop rng bs, no last rotation reward for some game mode no one likes, just an item sold for tokens you can farm easily and consistently and you only need Forma to craft it.

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hace 1 minuto, vanaukas dijo:

that's the whole point of min maxing tho, otherwise would be just "maxing" without limitations 🙄

I don't know if i didn't explain it well or you didn't got it, sorry my english is very bad. The problem is not one config, i can min-max one frame/weapon. the problem is BETWEEN configs, i can't min-max a shadow nekros on config A and a despoil on config B because of the polarities. The problem scales on weapons. I hope i explained better this time. Sorry.

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Posted (edited)
hace 6 minutos, kgabor dijo:

Maybe there could be a compromise and a middle ground between a free alternative to bypass the duplicate frame requirement and an awful grind for another super rare item;

Universal Forma Adapter:

-Takes ~5 Forma each to craft+some generic resources found everywhere

-Relatively common, it could be an Arbitration or Steel Path vendor item. (Arbitration would make more sense imo. because everyone playing/whoever played the mode for the Arcanes has excess Arbi tokens)

That's about it, no endless hours sitting in Bounties, no Lich drop rng bs, no last rotation reward for some game mode no one likes, just an item sold for tokens you can farm easily and consistently and you only need Forma to craft it.

Another great idea but someone thought of that before :P

hace 27 minutos, quxier dijo:

Like people said it would be nice if every forma unlocks polarities that you can change any slot.

For example (|| shows where one potential list of polarities ends/starts):

- 1 forma V: no polarities || V

- 2 forma V -: no polarities || V || V - || -

 

hace 22 minutos, Tauthe dijo:

Ohhh S#&$, that's a great idea too. You can just get another forma like the aura forma, that unlocks all the polarities on the slot you put it. +1

EDIT: Now that I'm thinking... but at what cost! Look at the umbra forma, i don't want another way of farming one thing I REALLY NEED... I think the idea of selecting the config on which i want the forma is better. Thank you for the idea!

Edited by Tauthe
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3 minutes ago, Tauthe said:

I don't know if i didn't explain it well or you didn't got it, sorry my english is very bad. The problem is not one config, i can min-max one frame/weapon. the problem is BETWEEN configs, i can't min-max a shadow nekros on config A and a despoil on config B because of the polarities. The problem scales on weapons. I hope i explained better this time. Sorry.

I know what are you talking about. I have a slowva-speedva both with nullstarbuilds withotu any issue, cleared steelpath alone with her for some missions. The thole thing on min maxing builds it's thinking on what or how many permutations you do to fit your needs (in this case, with forma). In any case, I would love some sort of "universal forma" super costly as a QoL for those who struggle too much with builds or to achieve more powercreep

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Justo ahora, vanaukas dijo:

I know what are you talking about. I have a slowva-speedva both with nullstarbuilds withotu any issue, cleared steelpath alone with her for some missions. The thole thing on min maxing builds it's thinking on what or how many permutations you do to fit your needs (in this case, with forma). In any case, I would love some sort of "universal forma" super costly as a QoL for those who struggle too much with builds or to achieve more powercreep

OOOOHHHH I'm so sorry, i wasn't understanding what you're telling me. Ok, but you already can max-max, you just need to get another item. The "universal forma" suits better than "go get another". At least we can agree on something 😀

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1 hour ago, Tauthe said:

PLEASE, let me choose on which configs I put my formas.... Thank you.

This is a bad idea. It would be fairly detrimental to a large number of people. Not everyone wants to make specialised builds or min-max. These people will be forced to use many more Forma to achieve what they can do already. Some frames it makes sense to have multiple builds - speed and slow Nova for example. Why would DE want to penalise these people? What you want can easily be accomplished with multiple copies of an item (frame/weapon etc). If you cannot fit all the builds you want on your item simply get a second copy.

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Posted (edited)
hace 18 minutos, krc473 dijo:

This is a bad idea. It would be fairly detrimental to a large number of people. Not everyone wants to make specialised builds or min-max. These people will be forced to use many more Forma to achieve what they can do already. Some frames it makes sense to have multiple builds - speed and slow Nova for example. Why would DE want to penalise these people? What you want can easily be accomplished with multiple copies of an item (frame/weapon etc). If you cannot fit all the builds you want on your item simply get a second copy.

You're not "penalising" nor changing the actual method you're adding more options, please read it carefully. The only thing it'll change is a menu they need to add to select which config the player want to add the forma. Do you want to continue on the actual method? Select all 3 default configs and the others you bought. Are you a player that want more powercreep? Add only to one or more of the default configs or the ones you bought. They might want to add a "Add to all config" button just to save some time.

Edit: Please, try to get another Khora, Nidus, Harrow, at least we can forget some of them now thank you for the primed version. Equinox, for example.

Edited by Tauthe
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