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It's becoming absurdly difficult to make specialized builds


Tauthe
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1 hour ago, Tauthe said:

Maybe some people like the fashion frame as his end game, i like min-maxing and I DO HAVE multiple copies of multiple mods beacuse what i said in my post, i like the symulacrum.

Flow4Q3Ca32.png

ContinuityEeuok8E.png

Transient fortitude

9OUYYRX.png

xmw29Sa.png

FFS I even have 2 Primed Vigor on my account XD4vcC5F4.png

I meant multiple copies of frames/weapons not mods. Like if your different Nova builds can't all fit on the same Nova due to polarities then build an extra Nova or two to support the other ones.

And if you want to min-max then go for it but you're hitting one of the indented limiters of said min-maxing. Which we already have a method to ignore by just building multiple copies of the same frame. But why convolute the entire Forma system just to save a couple Forma per build for the incredibly small subset of players who go for this level of min-maxing? Most of which have likely made duplicate frames for this very reason already.

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hace 1 minuto, trst dijo:

I meant multiple copies of frames/weapons not mods. Like if your different Nova builds can't all fit on the same Nova due to polarities then build an extra Nova or two to support the other ones.

And if you want to min-max then go for it but you're hitting one of the indented limiters of said min-maxing. Which we already have a method to ignore by just building multiple copies of the same frame. But why convolute the entire Forma system just to save a couple Forma per build for the incredibly small subset of players who go for this level of min-maxing? Most of which have likely made duplicate frames for this very reason already.

Said in the previous post. It's not only the forma, you need time too, farm for other warframes can be a pain in the ass and we need to do it just for the helmith system. Also, didn't they "convolute" the mods with Mods 2.0? Didn't they "convolute" the entire endo system? Didn't they "convolute" the void and relics?? Didn't they "convolute" the freaking operator focus by changing almost everything and resetting it?? This will not be the first time they make big changes to the game, and it wont be the last, that's for sure...

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14 minutes ago, krc473 said:

This is a bad idea. It would be fairly detrimental to a large number of people. Not everyone wants to make specialised builds or min-max. These people will be forced to use many more Forma to achieve what they can do already. Some frames it makes sense to have multiple builds - speed and slow Nova for example. Why would DE want to penalise these people? What you want can easily be accomplished with multiple copies of an item (frame/weapon etc). If you cannot fit all the builds you want on your item simply get a second copy.

Perhaps I misunderstand, but I dont see how this suggestion would be "detrimental" to people. You can still put all your forma into one config and have the same result as you would currently. I guess the only issue would be that in order to switch builds you would have to manually change your mods, instead of changing configurations due to them not being formad. Thats definetly impractical. Still less of a hassle than "owning multiple copies of weapons" though. 

I think a good solution would be to give players an option to select which configs the forma applies to, similar to how the helminth does when subsuming abilities. That way, you can apply the same polarity across all configurations, or apply it only to one (config A for example).

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This is an interesting idea that I havent seen brought up before. Though I would argue that the issue youre having DOES have to do with both capacity and mod drain. Especially on primary/secondary weapons, where, due to the lack of stance/aura mods, youre basically forced to forma almost every slot just to get a full build (and thats without primed/galvanized mods), which leaves very little room for alt builds. If you could get away with more unpolarized slots, it would be a lot easier to make different builds.

I like your suggestion, but it would be rather impractical for everyone who doesnt want to polarize every config separately (and invest ridiculous amounts of forma into it), as they wouldnt be able to use those unpolarized configuration tabs to switch between builds. So I would suggest this:

13 minutes ago, Cerasium said:

I think a good solution would be to give players an option to select which configs the forma applies to, similar to how the helminth does when subsuming abilities. That way, you can apply the same polarity across all configurations, or apply it only to one (config A for example).

This way, you can polarize every config separately, or polarize them across the board like how you currently can.

Edited by Cerasium
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2 hours ago, Tauthe said:

I'd tried to install MULTIPLE potato but it wont work.... sad

 

Maybe some people like the fashion frame as his end game, i like min-maxing and I DO HAVE multiple copies of multiple mods beacuse what i said in my post, i like the symulacrum.

Flow4Q3Ca32.png

ContinuityEeuok8E.png

Transient fortitude

9OUYYRX.png

xmw29Sa.png

FFS I even have 2 Primed Vigor on my account XD4vcC5F4.png

Now you need to go the extra step and do what I did, multiple copies of each frame. I have about 120 warframes.

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DE could fundamentally change how Forma works so the number beside the name of the weapon actually means something.

Instead of changing the polarity of a slot on use, each forma increases the amount of slots you can polarize from the "Swap Polarity" menu. Polarity configs can be saved between different load outs.

No more re-formaing, no more multiple items, but DE would see it as a cut in sales.

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It is true that some frames requires multiple copies. The most obvious one is nova where you just can't minmax slow and speed nova at once. However those are very edge cases and more often than not, you don't loose much by making it work for everything. On the oposite, I find it pretty nice that some frames have so different playstyles that you can't minmax every one of them on one, it doesn't happen with more recent frames actually.

Edited by Galuf
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's common for people to make more than one frame or weapon if you're at point where resources and forma and plat aren't a problem.

All you need is time management and the ability to think ahead. 

I farmed 2 acceltras and one has 7 forma and the other has 6 for a completely different build and separate 2nd riven I got for it.

It wasn't even time consuming or took forever. 

I have 2 novas for separate builds.

2 Nyx

2 Revenant

Multiple rivens for the same weapons to for different builds etc. 

Kinda why it's called a looter and isn't like every other game that limits your inventory. 

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Hmmm. From what i understand .. The OP would like to be able Forma a config seperately from each other.

We can already apply Helminth abilities to specific configs. 
Just take that system and apply it to Forma as well. 
Select Forma -> Select Slot -> Select Polarity -> Select Config Loadouts to apply Forma into.
Result: Ability to have one weapon or frame Polarized 6 different ways. 
When/If buying a new Config Slot, just bring up a clone option to copy an existing Configs Polarizations or start with a clean slate. 

Then you don't need an entirely new frame/weapon built (which is a hard ask when some Primes are in the vault) if you want to min/max multiple builds. Literally like what they did with Helminth.

There is literally no downside to anyone to have this in the game. 
 

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hace 18 minutos, (PSN)Sswoop- dijo:

I am also experiencing this problem with vauban. I have 3 different builds I run, and now I'm looking to build another vauban because of how limited 2 of my builds are(because of the polarities).

Thank you.

hace 37 minutos, Vaml77 dijo:

lmao

You know, some people just want to be noticed without making any contribution.

hace 8 minutos, Reitrix dijo:

Hmmm. From what i understand .. The OP would like to be able Forma a config seperately from each other.

We can already apply Helminth abilities to specific configs. 
Just take that system and apply it to Forma as well. 
Select Forma -> Select Slot -> Select Polarity -> Select Config Loadouts to apply Forma into.
Result: Ability to have one weapon or frame Polarized 6 different ways. 
When/If buying a new Config Slot, just bring up a clone option to copy an existing Configs Polarizations or start with a clean slate. 

Then you don't need an entirely new frame/weapon built (which is a hard ask when some Primes are in the vault) if you want to min/max multiple builds. Literally like what they did with Helminth.

There is literally no downside to anyone to have this in the game. 
 

I don't get the people saying that it will be worst, more "detrimental" and that it'll be penalising.

hace 51 minutos, (PSN)Madurai-Prime dijo:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's common for people to make more than one frame or weapon if you're at point where resources and forma and plat aren't a problem.

All you need is time management and the ability to think ahead. 

I farmed 2 acceltras and one has 7 forma and the other has 6 for a completely different build and separate 2nd riven I got for it.

It wasn't even time consuming or took forever. 

I have 2 novas for separate builds.

2 Nyx

2 Revenant

Multiple rivens for the same weapons to for different builds etc. 

Kinda why it's called a looter and isn't like every other game that limits your inventory. 

You're not alone, I too have multiple items but what i'm here for is to change it. I don't want to new people that love min-maxing or just experimenting to go the path i had to go. We can't count the number of post arguing about the "looting" system, the RGN on this game is to hard 😀.

It does limit your inventory, but you can "extend" it by expending platinum.... is the same on other games.

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Best solution:  (IMO)

Apply Forma to empty slot: works like now.

Apply Forma to polarized slot: Add NEW polarity to list of polarities active in the slot.
(Edit to clarify: Instead of replacing the polarity with the forma, it adds the new polarity to the list of simultaneously active polarities.
V, D, -, = and Umbral could ALL be active in the SAME slot, if you keep putting forma into it, allowing that slot to become less restrictive for your other loadouts.)

Now, all slots can be forma'd to accept all polarities, if you want to spend that much time and forma... (as long as a matching polarity exists for the Mod you're trying to install, you get the bonus, if there is a polarity that does not match in that slot, you still get the negative, until you add a forma for the negative polarity you're trying to use there.)

 

Spoiler

A similar system could be implemented for the Helminth abilities. Just have a UI that lets you check-box the ability you want to replace with a currently infused helminth ability (could save one Helminth infusion for each loadout slot available for the frame), and then select the helminth ability you want in that slot (from that list - not the total available infusions like sitting in the chair... only the ones you've infused into that frame.)

You could turn this off and on in the loadout screen, without needing to bother with the whole infusion nonsense that they have going on now. This would reduce the overall cost of using the system (due to not constantly re-infusing and removing infusions as the need may arise), but it would streamline it and allow for a less rigid system, allowing for more creativity with less barriers to use.

 

Edited by (PSN)AyinDygra
clarification
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1 hour ago, Reitrix said:

Hmmm. From what i understand .. The OP would like to be able Forma a config seperately from each other.

We can already apply Helminth abilities to specific configs. 
Just take that system and apply it to Forma as well. 
Select Forma -> Select Slot -> Select Polarity -> Select Config Loadouts to apply Forma into.
Result: Ability to have one weapon or frame Polarized 6 different ways. 
When/If buying a new Config Slot, just bring up a clone option to copy an existing Configs Polarizations or start with a clean slate. 

Then you don't need an entirely new frame/weapon built (which is a hard ask when some Primes are in the vault) if you want to min/max multiple builds. Literally like what they did with Helminth.

There is literally no downside to anyone to have this in the game. 
 

That's for frames though. It's changing 1 out of 4 things. Not having to make new code to try to tell a single weapon that's its actually 4 weapons.

It's a great idea I know....I'm just saying there may be issues making this happen. 

A weapon and its polarities are a single static unit. A load out slot would essentially have to be a completely separate weapon, essentially giving us 3 free new weapons......

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There are a lot of potential solutions. Mod underclocking, stacking Forma, universal Forma, config-specific Forma, etc. Not sure which is best, but it's a long-standing issue that's only gonna get worse as more and more mods are added to the game. It'd be nice to see it addressed in some way.

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2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

That's for frames though. It's changing 1 out of 4 things. Not having to make new code to try to tell a single weapon that's its actually 4 weapons.

It's a great idea I know....I'm just saying there may be issues making this happen. 

A weapon and its polarities are a single static unit. A load out slot would essentially have to be a completely separate weapon, essentially giving us 3 free new weapons......

What it boils down to is the game assigning an ability to a Config. In the same way we can save mod layouts to Configs. 

Helminth shows us that Configs can have some pretty fundamental changes done between them in the form of custom abilities. Do you also rationalize Helminth as giving us 3 free frames?

Giving us the ability to Forma configs independantly at our discretion is only beneficial to us all.
We shouldn't be forced to build duplicates as a workaround to a flaw in the polarization system. Iron out the flaw and the system as a whole is improved. 
If they could figure out a way to have abilities tied to Configs, they can figure out a way to tie forma applications to a specific config too.

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9 hours ago, Tauthe said:

You can buy umbral forma (steel essence rotation). And i will love another ways of getting umbral forma but the problem is not only with warframes, it's with weapons too. I think we should solve this by getting to the root, the polarities. They add a complexity to the game that i like, but the way they force us to use them... it's a no no for me.

Fair enough, but I rather have Umbra Forma drop like normal Forma, same goes for the Aura one, or have it in the Market 

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28 minutes ago, Reitrix said:

What it boils down to is the game assigning an ability to a Config. In the same way we can save mod layouts to Configs. 

Helminth shows us that Configs can have some pretty fundamental changes done between them in the form of custom abilities. Do you also rationalize Helminth as giving us 3 free frames?

Giving us the ability to Forma configs independantly at our discretion is only beneficial to us all.
We shouldn't be forced to build duplicates as a workaround to a flaw in the polarization system. Iron out the flaw and the system as a whole is improved. 
If they could figure out a way to have abilities tied to Configs, they can figure out a way to tie forma applications to a specific config too.

Yea I know, I'm just saying there's probably a reason why it isn't so. The players can ask for x y and z all they want. What matters is if DE wants to or can do it. 

All you can do is make an actual feedback thread and hope for the best.

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It ain't called Fashion Frame for a reason:

People, especially in this game, get attached to specific pieces of equipment if they don't get lost in some min-max exercise in futility (like it appears may be happening to some players here) and like to be able to flex them into roles they weren't necessarily designed for...

I can appreciate folks wanting cut and dry, 'if you need to do X, than equip Y" type Meta... But that's BOOORING... A proper MMORPG would have what you're looking for, as hundreds of players are interacting simultaneously, so strict builds are more necessary... Warframe is not an MMORPG... a MO-RPG maybe, but relays and villages don't make it a MMORPG 

(also, min-maxing for RNG rolls is a strong indication you have a gambling addiction vs just hooked hard core on a gameplay experience which may have similar dynamics to a legit gambling addiction)

Edited by Venyxos
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OP is just seeing how the business model is diversifying revenue to survive in the supply/demand sense.

Yes, you will need to buy multiple frames and obtain multiple mods and forma those duplicate frames differently.

Unless you have an alt-way in which this can happen that is preferable to players AND makes DE more money than this current trend, all OP’s post proves is that the system is working.

Edited by (PSN)Silverback73
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hace 23 minutos, (PSN)Silverback73 dijo:

OP is just seeing how the business model is diversifying revenue to survive in the supply/demand sense.

Yes, you will need to buy multiple frames and obtain multiple mods and forma those duplicate frames differently.

Unless you have an alt-way in which this can happen that is preferable to players AND makes DE more money than this current trend, all OP’s post proves is that the system is working.

Man, what business model?? You can get the ammount of platinum you want just by playing you don't have to buy it, WTF? Don't you know that the revenue of all the last games where from cosmetics and bundles? NOT FROM ACTUAL MECHANICS????

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hace 1 minuto, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 dijo:

What is quickva? Oh you mean SpeeVa* Game Over No GIF by Spacelords

Sorry, in spanish we say quick nova, not speed nova because translates:

quick = rápida = fast

speed = velocidad = velocity

😅😂

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hace 20 minutos, Surbusken dijo:

High rollers have several frames for build diversity.

Of course you are right about everything you said but I don't think the developers have any plans to work on anything the players want.

That's is what good and bad developers diference.

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