Bring old kuva Nukor back

[helpmeeplzzz]

I believe  now the most secondary weapon still have the same usage rate before the weapon buff update, since the nerf on kuva nukor doesn’t effect most secondary weapon usage, let’s bring kuva Nukor chain number  back to before he it’s nerf! only can chain 2 enemies make it use like a *  . miss the happy time before:(

[(XBOX)Rez090]

[Tiltskillet]

"DE, you nerfed Knukor to decrease its usage, but other weapons still aren't used much.  Try buffing it back to where it was!  That should definitely make other weapons more popular."

 

 

 

[helpmeeplzzz]

28分钟前 , Tiltskillet 说:

"DE, you nerfed Knukor to decrease its usage, but other weapons still aren't used much.  Try buffing it back to where it was!  That should definitely make other weapons more popular."

 

 

 

well,  the nerf  kuva nukor did not play the role in increase the usage rate of other secondary weapon, since the result is the same from beginning to the end, why don't we bring chain number back to before so we have more fun?

¯\_༼ •́ ͜ʖ •̀ ༽_/¯

and DE try the other way to increase the usage for the other weapon.(＾3＾♪

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

I will forever maintain that there was no reason to nerf it.  It was popular because it was easy-ish to attain and a lot of content creators put it on display and made cookie cutter builds for it.  It was not popular because it was that much stronger than everything else.  

My Gaze secondary kitgun was on par with it and is now more effective than it is and was, especially with galvanized mods and the higher dispo that it has.  My Gaze also has a regenerating magazine with infinite reserve ammo because it can equip Pax Charge.  But the Gaze takes a bit of open world grind, doesn't look as cool, and isn't in the title of a hundred different "ZOMG THIS GUN BROKE WARFRMMMZZZZ!!!11!!!!11~" videos so no one uses it.

The Sporelacer secondary is also extremely nasty and can chunk Acolyte health faster than most guns.  It makes a complete joke out of whole squads of enemies at any level under long endurance or SP runs and is still very effective in SP without any of the new arcanes.  I think I've seen one out in the wild.  I've had people ask me wtf I'm using more than once while they watch it melt everything in a very wide area.  Also with Pax Charge for limitless spam.

The KN was never even as strong as melee still is after the nerfs it took.  It was good, yes.  It was very good, 100% top tier.  But there was no reason to knock it out of the top tier.  It's not the Nukor's fault that people just blindly go with whatever weapons their favorite youtuber recommends.  There's a dozen weapons that people sleep on that are more than capable of running SP, and were able to do so before the additional mods/arcanes for guns, but they are low in popularity.  They nerf what's popular not because it's strong but because they hope it will cause people to branch out and spend time and resources and maybe plat on other weapons.  A singularly popular weapon is bad for business.  

[XaoGarrent]

On 2021-08-14 at 10:39 AM, helpmeeplzzz said:

I believe  now the most secondary weapon still have the same usage rate before the weapon buff update, since the nerf on kuva nukor doesn’t effect most secondary weapon usage, let’s bring kuva Nukor chain number  back to before he it’s nerf! only can chain 2 enemies make it use like a *  . miss the happy time before:(

Hmmm... Let me find the correct, lame, cringy, boring and politically correct gif response featuring a celebrity, as are so popular around these parts...

...Ah, yes, this will do.

 

16 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

"DE, you nerfed Knukor to decrease its usage, but other weapons still aren't used much.  Try buffing it back to where it was!  That should definitely make other weapons more popular."

"Let's double down on a plan that didn't work and is accomplishing nothing other than angering a bunch of players, that'll surely make us look competent and help our popularity!" 

If the usage statistics aren't changing, in all likelihood it's because most people can't be arsed to change their secondary weapon on their 2-3 dozen loadouts, while they run around with primary slot rocket launchers, shotguns and all manner of cool swords and exploding boomerang blades.

I've been replacing the Kuva Nukor in all my loadouts with the Tenet Detron, which does have a useful niche... And I'm building a Sporelancer... But I'm dragging my feet because 90% of the time I only use my primary and melee.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

19 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

And I'm building a Sporelancer... But I'm dragging my feet because 90% of the time I only use my primary and melee.

Don't sleep on the sporelacer secondary.  I've spent hundreds of forma on dozens of different weapons, just to see what things are actually capable of outside of what's popular.  The fact that everyone sticks with what's popular among content creators and don't seem to want to change from something they've already invested into only solidifies my points that nerfs happen based on popularity and the forma system with all it's massive investment that can be stripped away at any moment by a nerf is a bad system.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

On 2021-08-14 at 5:39 PM, helpmeeplzzz said:

I believe  now the most secondary weapon still have the same usage rate before the weapon buff update, since the nerf on kuva nukor doesn’t effect most secondary weapon usage, let’s bring kuva Nukor chain number  back to before he it’s nerf! only can chain 2 enemies make it use like a *  . miss the happy time before:(

Or... Or! Wait a moment! IMAGINE: Kuva Atomos.

[Yamazuki]

37 minutes ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Don't sleep on the sporelacer secondary.  I've spent hundreds of forma on dozens of different weapons, just to see what things are actually capable of outside of what's popular.  The fact that everyone sticks with what's popular among content creators and don't seem to want to change from something they've already invested into only solidifies my points that nerfs happen based on popularity and the forma system with all it's massive investment that can be stripped away at any moment by a nerf is a bad system.

DE themselves have pretty much stated they nerf what's popular. Have they at any point ever stated they value balance? It's possible I missed it, but I can't recall a moment where they said it mattered.

DE even references usage stats a lot. When they nerf something, they'll reference usage stats. They bring up usage stats for fun.

For the patch notes, DE said:

Quote

It’s a dominant Secondary with incredible power, which is warranted given its acquisition.

Kuva Bramma:

Quote

The Kuva Bramma has received balance changes to address it’s overwhelming chart topping usage. The Kuva Bramma still goes boom, and we look forward to your feedback once you’ve given it a try.

This is one of the reasons why if you find a strong combination, you don't share it. Interactions with shield-gate had been nerfed, at least the ones that got used, while others still exist as they aren't being abused by most people. I don't think they fixed another case of a specific mod granting immortality either.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

2 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

DE themselves have pretty much stated they nerf what's popular. Have they at any point ever stated they value balance? It's possible I missed it, but I can't recall a moment where they said it mattered.

DE even references usage stats a lot. When they nerf something, they'll reference usage stats. They bring up usage stats for fun.

For the patch notes, DE said:

Kuva Bramma:

This is one of the reasons why if you find a strong combination, you don't share it. Interactions with shield-gate had been nerfed, at least the ones that got used, while others still exist as they aren't being abused by most people. I don't think they fixed another case of a specific mod granting immortality either.

DE tries to act like they're doing it because something is OP, they reference "bringing things down in line with the other weapons" a lot and most of the player base interprets that as "too strong, need nerf" and not "too popular, not spending enough time farming other weapons."  Most of the threads around nerfs support this, because they're full of people screaming "too strong, need nerf."

That, and I get called a negative conspiracy theorist for suggesting that they nerf things because of popularity, and that it has nothing to do with power.  I had a knock down drag out fight with someone in the forums over this exact thing, where I was labeled a crazy person because I tried to say that other things were just as strong so it was already "in-line" strength-wise so the only reason was popularity.

And I used to not talk about things that were strong because I knew they'd nerf them eventually if they got popular.  I don't care now.  Let them do it.  It's bad for the game's health every single time they start hacking away at the things everyone likes.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, XaoGarrent said:

19 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

"DE, you nerfed Knukor to decrease its usage, but other weapons still aren't used much.  Try buffing it back to where it was!  That should definitely make other weapons more popular."

"Let's double down on a plan that didn't work and is accomplishing nothing other than angering a bunch of players, that'll surely make us look competent and help our popularity!" 

"Double down" is an odd way to describe keeping the status quo.  

Your premise and that of the OP seem dubious to me in any case, since none of us can prove anything without usage data.  Without evidence, I  think the most you can reasonably say is that you don't approve of DE's goals, successful or not.

And that's ok. After all, I'm not sure I approve of those goals either.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Lol this isn't even a good reason. It was adjusted because it was over performing, not because it just happened to be randomly popular. It being popular was a by product of weak meta users using the path of least resistance. 

If you actually like the weapon....you'll use it....if you need it to be op to use it, you're a bandwagoner.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

Bring the old old Nukor back, when it fired retro sci-fi ring projectiles.

Spoiler

 

 

[Deminisis]

I used to use the nukor a lot too, but now I'm mad dashing through Steel path with a rapid fire kuva Bramma and stealing everyone's kills. I'm happy either way.

[TaricTheAncient]

23 minutes ago, Deminisis said:

I used to use the nukor a lot too, but now I'm mad dashing through Steel path with a rapid fire kuva Bramma and stealing everyone's kills. I'm happy either way.

Inc Bramma Extra Nerf

 

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

On 2021-08-15 at 10:33 AM, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

I will forever maintain that there was no reason to nerf it.  It was popular because it was easy-ish to attain and a lot of content creators put it on display and made cookie cutter builds for it.  It was not popular because it was that much stronger than everything else.  

My Gaze secondary kitgun was on par with it and is now more effective than it is and was, especially with galvanized mods and the higher dispo that it has.  My Gaze also has a regenerating magazine with infinite reserve ammo because it can equip Pax Charge.  But the Gaze takes a bit of open world grind, doesn't look as cool, and isn't in the title of a hundred different "ZOMG THIS GUN BROKE WARFRMMMZZZZ!!!11!!!!11~" videos so no one uses it.

The Sporelacer secondary is also extremely nasty and can chunk Acolyte health faster than most guns.  It makes a complete joke out of whole squads of enemies at any level under long endurance or SP runs and is still very effective in SP without any of the new arcanes.  I think I've seen one out in the wild.  I've had people ask me wtf I'm using more than once while they watch it melt everything in a very wide area.  Also with Pax Charge for limitless spam.

The KN was never even as strong as melee still is after the nerfs it took.  It was good, yes.  It was very good, 100% top tier.  But there was no reason to knock it out of the top tier.  It's not the Nukor's fault that people just blindly go with whatever weapons their favorite youtuber recommends.  There's a dozen weapons that people sleep on that are more than capable of running SP, and were able to do so before the additional mods/arcanes for guns, but they are low in popularity.  They nerf what's popular not because it's strong but because they hope it will cause people to branch out and spend time and resources and maybe plat on other weapons.  A singularly popular weapon is bad for business.  

gaze stronger? im calling bs

[helpmeeplzzz]

kuva nukor before the primary and secondary weapon update: 

fast, clean, efficient 

kuva nukor after the update nerf: 

miss 1, miss 2, miss 3 

enemies: lets play hide and seek u can’t find me hhh looooser.

Mission time consume:

+3m

my kavat: the stupid tenno are doing round trip running training

I :

.....................

7  lich, total 20h on this weapon I spent

DE: we will buff primary and secondary weapon 

I: yeah!

kuva nukor: yeah!

after the update 

DE: Incredible power...other weapon....usage rate...consider...no problems Little  bit reduce the chain number on kuva nukor 

from 4 to 2,    

2 forma compensate 

I :?
kuva nukor :?
2 forma : hahaha look at this 🤡

 

 

[Leqesai]

20 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Lol this isn't even a good reason. It was adjusted because it was over performing, not because it just happened to be randomly popular. It being popular was a by product of weak meta users using the path of least resistance. 

If you actually like the weapon....you'll use it....if you need it to be op to use it, you're a bandwagoner.

Well said.

And just so we are all clear, it is still at the top of the stack when it comes to secondary weapons. it is just not wildly overpowered like it was before.

[Leqesai]

2 hours ago, helpmeeplzzz said:

kuva nukor before the primary and secondary weapon update: 

fast, clean, efficient 

kuva nukor after the update nerf: 

miss 1, miss 2, miss 3 

enemies: lets play hide and seek u can’t find me hhh looooser.

Mission time consume:

+3m

my kavat: the stupid tenno are doing round trip running training

I :

.....................

7  lich, total 20h on this weapon I spent

DE: we will buff primary and secondary weapon 

I: yeah!

kuva nukor: yeah!

after the update 

DE: Incredible power...other weapon....usage rate...consider...no problems Little  bit reduce the chain number on kuva nukor 

from 4 to 2,    

2 forma compensate 

I :?
kuva nukor :?
2 forma : hahaha look at this 🤡

 

 

[Darth_Predator]

8 часов назад, (PSN)Spider_Enigma сказал:

gaze stronger? im calling bs

Now gaze will be nerfed as well :D

Спойлер

 

 

[Tesseract7777]

On 2021-08-14 at 10:39 AM, helpmeeplzzz said:

I believe  now the most secondary weapon still have the same usage rate before the weapon buff update, since the nerf on kuva nukor doesn’t effect most secondary weapon usage, let’s bring kuva Nukor chain number  back to before he it’s nerf! only can chain 2 enemies make it use like a *  . miss the happy time before:(

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

9 hours ago, (PSN)Spider_Enigma said:

gaze stronger? im calling bs

I love the constant reminder of how friendly this community is every single time I come to the forums.  It's such a well earned reputation.  

Building for a high crit rate with middling to low status is extremely effective on beam weapons.  Especially ones that chain.  Being a kitgun it can be built however you like, and that's how I built mine.  The only caveat to my claim is that I'm running Gaze with a decent riven and the Nukor with no riven because the dispo is so low.  I did already state that the Gaze's higher dispo was factored into my claim.

I've compared my own Nukor builds as well as cookie cutter ones from other players.

Doing my own math or using online DPS calculators my Gaze has higher DPS when not factoring in the electric procs that my Gaze will produce from its riven, Galv Diffusion stacks on either weapon, or viral procs from either weapon.  Viral will not usually stack up to 10 with either weapon before the enemy dies unless the enemy is very tanky, but it does stack slightly faster on the Nukor.  Part of the higher DPS on the Gaze is the higher fire rate, most of it is the fact that mine has 112% CC with 6.4x CD.  The Gaze also has innate punchthrough as a secondary, which allows it to hit more enemies at once, as well as hitting more enemies for full beam damage rather than the lower chain damage.  The high CC/CD didn't sacrifice status on this weapon though, it's sitting at 50%, which on a beam weapon with a fire rate of 19.5, it pumps out status constantly.  In practical testing it clears groups and single targets slightly faster than the Nukor.  

It has higher calculated DPS, status output that is more than adequate for use as a CO priming weapon, can now hit more targets without modding for punchthrough, the availability of infinite ammo through arcanes as well as a self reloading magazine, higher riven dispo (my riven has electricity damage, which means I get what amounts to perma CC while firing), and the added bonus of not being popular.  Yet, anyway.  Mine also has a longer range on the main beam than the Nukor does by just a hair.

[helpmeeplzzz]

19小时前 , Leqesai 说:

Well said.

And just so we are all clear, it is still at the top of the stack when it comes to secondary weapons. it is just not wildly overpowered like it was before.

Of course it still at the top because except the akarius, sporelacer and the other few weapon, all the secondary weapon are almost=trash, maybe some of them have a strong power for the single enemies, but the speed of clear the enemies they have will make them never have the power to against the aoe weapon. Kuva nukor never overpowered, the special shooting mode make it have just right power to balance the aoe weapons usage rate and prevent warframe to become aoeframe. 5 chain number not overpowering, 8 is. It seems tooooo strong because it just compared the wrong object.if  compare a mouse with an ant, of course, mouse it’s far big then the ant. but if compared the mouse to the human....Ha. This is what happened in the warframe arsenal. The strong is too strong, the weak is too weak. DE still have the long long long trip to go, on the balance the arsenal. So, all in all, on the whole, looking at the big picture, change kuva nukor chain number back to 5 won’t make it overpowered. kek.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

21 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

The only caveat to my claim is that I'm running Gaze with a decent riven and the Nukor with no riven because the dispo is so low. (...) The Gaze also has innate punchthrough as a secondary, which allows it to hit more enemies at once, as well as hitting more enemies for full beam damage rather than the lower chain damage.

Speaking as someone with a PT Nukor riven, that's a pretty massive caveat. Not just for the reason you mentioned as an upside for the Gaze, but because the K.Nukor creates an additional chain beam for each and every enemy hit by the main beam, making PT a golden stat on it, and Nukor Rivens totally worth it despite abysmal disposition just for whatever side benefit it'll give you besides PT. Also, were you running Arcane Avenger in that DPS calculation? Because K.Nukor's crit damage is nothing to sleep on.

4 hours ago, helpmeeplzzz said:

2 chain number per enemy not overpowering, 4 is.

FTFY.

[helpmeeplzzz]

43分钟前 , Perfectly_Framed_Waifu 说:

 

5小时前 , helpmeeplzzz 说:

2 chain number per enemy not overpowering, 4 is.

FTFY.

Ha good job😂,I stick to my original point: 4 is far away from “overpower”, grinner won’t line up obedient wait us to kill it. The practicality of this feature is too low. when the enemies sperate out a little, the chain number between 4-2 will be the “god damn useful haha”and “I should use bramma”. Tired on use aoe weapon. I know it’s impossible but I just hope the old kuva nukor can come back..one day:(