Nullifiers: suppress instead of dispel

[N7Revenant]

Ok, so... Nullifiers... the guys that you can run accidentally into (or they very purposefully run into you) and remove all ability usage, most ability buffs/stacks, and area of effect abilities. Some abilities that take time to charge, some that keep you alive, some that keep objective alive—even if they as much as brush next to the ability, it's gone.

Hear me out: what if they didn't completely dispel (as in gone, you have to reactivate/regain), but merely rendered the ability and its effects on pause. Say you have Vex Armor active, which you've dutifully maintained for past 5 minutes (despite the utter lack of UI warning of the timer running out—a subject for another day), and you run into the bubble by accident. Instead of having to build it back up when out of the bubble, its effects are simply inert when in the bubble, with the timer continuing to run down. Maybe short delay on ability availability/effect restoration after leaving the bubble. This should retain the difficulty, but drastically reduce the pointless annoyance.

E.g.:
Limbo's Cataclysm? The area of the bubble within the Cataclysm would behave as if outside the rift. Any enemy leaving the bubble would be caught back in the rift (and stasis if active).
Mag's Polarise? Runs over the bubble as over any other obstacle.

Some abilities would obviously have to be dispelled completely from the logical standpoint (based on size, "volatility"/"fragility", or remoteness from Warframe, like Decoy, Magnetize, or Firewalker trail part that was in contact with the bubble), and some from gameplay flow perspective that would be actively harmful to reactivate automatically (Peacemaker, Prowl, or Razorwing)

[Leqesai]

Great suggestion.

Will it be implemented? Definitely not. DE appear to be on a road traveling far away from fixing/changing old stuff in favor of adding more content.

[quxier]

To be honest I prefer increased drain/stuffs and/or decreased range/stuffs.

For example Limbo has stasis that should last 10 seconds and Cataclysm that has range 10 and 20 seconds. After touching (either frame or ability) Nully's bubble:

- Stasis time is decreased to 5 (1 second in game takes 2 second from timer)

- Cataclysm time is decreased to 10 second (same as above) & range decreases twice as fast.

After leaving Nully's bubble it goes back to normal. Continuing example above (3 second being in Nully's bubble):

- Stasis has 4 seconds left (10 seconds before entering Bubble minus 3 seconds with 2x increased time)

- Cataclysm has 14 seconds left & range is at 70% (assuming that range to time ration is 1 to 1)

You can increase/decrease stuffs 3 or even 4 times (probably) and it should still be good.

 

This is implemented (maybe not like this but in some form) with things like Wukong Clone & Yareli Merulina.

[Orrion_the_Kitsune]

I've never understood why nulls completely remove abilities instead of halting their effects, but only for most of the older frames while new frames get special treatment. Yareli gets drain over time, Xaku and Revenant and ilk have their effects decentralized so being caught in a null bubble is meaningless, Sevagoth is Sevagoth, etc.

They're called nullifiers and not dispellers and there are already dedicated Corpus units for removing effects completely anyway: they're called scrambuses. In high-level missions, especially survival, you're going to have so many null bubbles removing your abilities that the idea of a scrambus unit is laughable, and completely removing abilities on contact when there are so many of them on the map at a time only encourages people to play pure tank frames like Inaros and/or use overpowered weapons because abilities are unusable. This is kind of ironic because DE wants people to use ability-based frames more and "nuke 'em"/"tank 'em" setups less.

If DE wants to make Corpus units a challenge without relying on a flawed approach to design, they could just as easily implement the buff nullification, increase the range of the bubbles drastically, decrease their spawn rate and increase their health to match scrambus units. This would encourage people to kill the nullifiers, and it wouldn't include the added design problems. It'd also give scrambus units a niche beyond "nullifier but worse".

Edit: None of this is to comment on how sometimes nullifiers can spawn on top of you...
There's not much you can do about that.

 

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Bring back the old Zenistar and old gas, at least we used to have a good tool against corpus.

Jupiter SP survival is a test to see how long you can deal with nullies without getting filled with rage : regular nullies, flying nullies, melee nullies...

Of course I'm expecting some 1337 edgy veteran to answer something like "learn to play the game", "Octavia EzPz" or "git gud", with the addition of "back in those days nullies were harder to kill", "[high rof weapon] goes brrr"

Tbh it doesn't change the fact that nullies makes most caster frames useless, even those supposed to deal magnetic damage which is supposed to be less bad against corpus.

Selkie on sedna is one of the most populated SP mission for a good reason : grineers

[T-Shark69]

15 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Will it be implemented? Definitely not. DE appear to be on a road traveling far away from fixing/changing old stuff in favor of adding more content.

And in doing so they increase the inconsistencies in their game. Rhino and Nezha get into a bubble? Skin and Halo are completely gone. Yarely does the same? Merulina loses a bunch of HP fast but is still there.

A refresher update for consistency and qol stuff would be great imo but it doesnt increase player interaction as the new shiny im guessing.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

14 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

Bring back the old Zenistar and old gas, at least we used to have a good tool against corpus.

Jupiter SP survival is a test to see how long you can deal with nullies without getting filled with rage : regular nullies, flying nullies, melee nullies...

Of course I'm expecting some 1337 edgy veteran to answer something like "learn to play the game", "Octavia EzPz" or "git gud", with the addition of "back in those days nullies were harder to kill", "[high rof weapon] goes brrr"

Tbh it doesn't change the fact that nullies makes most caster frames useless, even those supposed to deal magnetic damage which is supposed to be less bad against corpus.

Selkie on sedna is one of the most populated SP mission for a good reason : grineers

Caster frames aren't useless. The game just doesn't want you going afk while proccing Energize all day. 

Welcome to actually playing games.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Il y a 6 heures, (PSN)Madurai-Prime a dit :

Caster frames aren't useless. The game just doesn't want you going afk while proccing Energize all day. 

Welcome to actually playing games.

As expected....

Thank you for the advice that reflect your deep knowledge of the game, I main Mag and did most steel path with her.

With 2~3 nullies in each corridor you can't rely on pull, you can't rely on your bubble, even the augment of her 3rd doesn't work that much, and her 4 is almost useless. The only thing to do is to go brr with a high rof weapon while being invincible with rolling guard or spamming 3 for shieldgating

[Orrion_the_Kitsune]

11 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Caster frames aren't useless. The game just doesn't want you going afk while proccing Energize all day. 

Welcome to actually playing games.

Your criticism is inert on so many levels. First of all, you can play a tank frame that doesn't care about nullifiers and one-button your way through the entirety of SP if you really want to. I use Valkyr (mostly because I like her Mithra skin and Hysteria) and, uh, yeah... it's pretty easy: you aim at an enemy and press the button until they die. The type of enemy is irrelevant. Second of all, I can tell you've never actually tried a caster frame in SP and/or rely exclusively on your gun to carry you through which makes the frame you choose to bring entirely meaningless. Yes, a good gun trivializes SP. Incredible. You know what never has a chance to do that so long as nullifiers exist in their current state? Caster frames. Every other frame type is usable, but caster frames are walking health/shield/armor values (most of which they lack) and that's it.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

9 minutes ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Your criticism is inert on so many levels. First of all, you can play a tank frame that doesn't care about nullifiers and one-button your way through the entirety of SP if you really want to. I use Valkyr (mostly because I like her Mithra skin and Hysteria) and, uh, yeah... it's pretty easy: you aim at an enemy and press the button until they die. The type of enemy is irrelevant. Second of all, I can tell you've never actually tried a caster frame in SP and/or rely exclusively on your gun to carry you through which makes the frame you choose to bring entirely meaningless. Yes, a good gun trivializes SP. Incredible. You know what never has a chance to do that so long as nullifiers exist in their current state? Caster frames. Every other frame type is usable, but caster frames are walking health/shield/armor values (most of which they lack) and that's it.

Rely exclusively on my gun? You mean my entire arsenal? Yes, I do more than spam mag bubbles and sit in a corner.

 

[Orrion_the_Kitsune]

27 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Rely exclusively on my gun? You mean my entire arsenal? Yes, I do more than spam mag bubbles and sit in a corner.

 

Mmm yes, I want a third of all frames to be unusable too. There's no way there could be a balance between these two things.

Now, low-effort responses aside, pretty much everyone here thinks they should retain their nullification of abilities. Not that you'd know, of course, because it's only mentioned in the OP and who in their right mind reads those in feedback threads?

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

My issues with the nullies is more the amount of them than the game mechanics. Kinda the same with ancient disruptor or parasitic eximus.

I don't know if the spawn type and rates are documented somewhere.

[sunderthefirmament]

On 2021-08-16 at 2:24 PM, N7Revenant said:

 

Hear me out: what if they didn't completely dispel (as in gone, you have to reactivate/regain), but merely rendered the ability and its effects on pause. Say you have Vex Armor active, which you've dutifully maintained for past 5 minutes (despite the utter lack of UI warning of the timer running out—a subject for another day), and you run into the bubble by accident. Instead of having to build it back up when out of the bubble, its effects are simply inert when in the bubble, with the timer continuing to run down. Maybe short delay on ability availability/effect restoration after leaving the bubble. This should retain the difficulty, but drastically reduce the pointless annoyance.

 

This would make Gara a little less painful to play.  I'm all for it.

 

Also, it would make keeping my idiot cat alive as Safeguard Nezha a lot easier.  So often Tiffany will just jump into a bubble the second I put a halo on her, requiring me to recast.  I'm pretty good at avoiding nully bubbles and prioritizing killing nullies when playing in ESO and such, but my cat isn't.

 

EDIT: Oh!  This would also be a godsend for Wisp.  I hate playing her against Corpus because I have to constantly lay out my reservoirs.

[Schwitzer]

I like the idea of supress instead of total dispel. Maybe they should also lose power every time they block / supress, instead of being able to absorb infinite abilities for free. Like how each bullet shrinks the bubble.