Jump to content

The "Pick a Invigoration" sucks pretty hard, can we get more options?


quietcanary
 Share

Recommended Posts

It takes 10 expensive invigorations to fill and you can end up receiving 5 jumps and 200% primary damage... on titania. Can we please get more chances at rolling if you don't want anything it provides? Perhaps just generate 3 and be allowed to pick one upon use? Or have it display what it will be before even spending resources on it, similiar to the other invigorations, it is just able to be used on any frame?

I don't know but this isn't even worth using in its current iteration. Don' t tell me its meant to be like this.

Edited by quietcanary
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

absolutely not.

The invigoration system is already wildly overpowered. We don't need it to be buffed, my dude.

It is literally a system that gives you huge bonuses for no work other than farming a few resources (which many players have stockpiled so high they'll never exhaust their stash). The thing you're talking about is the only semblance of balance that exists with this system and even that is questionable.

 

Warframe is PISS EASY. We don't need more absurd buffs to systems that don't need them. We need DE to get their head outta the cave and fix their game instead of puking power creep constantly. If it is not readily apparent in Warframe's development cycle, the devs have completely lost touch with balancing the game. The players are partly to blame for this for suggesting asinine power boost after asinine power boost.

We do not need more asinine buffs. Especially not to systems like invigorations.

  • Like 31
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

absolutely not.

The invigoration system is already wildly overpowered. We don't need it to be buffed, my dude.

It is literally a system that gives you huge bonuses for no work other than farming a few resources (which many players have stockpiled so high they'll never exhaust their stash). The thing you're talking about is the only semblance of balance that exists with this system and even that is questionable.

 

Warframe is PISS EASY. We don't need more absurd buffs to systems that don't need them. We need DE to get their head outta the cave and fix their game instead of puking power creep constantly. If it is not readily apparent in Warframe's development cycle, the devs have completely lost touch with balancing the game. The players are partly to blame for this for suggesting asinine power boost after asinine power boost.

We do not need more asinine buffs. Especially not to systems like invigorations.

Everything you said is filled with your overall bias of game difficulty, and you clearly put little thought into whats actually true. I disagree with you in general and with everything you said specifically. It's expensive, don't deny that, I'm literally loaded in resources more than even the people you think you are talking about and I think its absurdly costly. The bonuses are absurd in both directions. Jumps, sprint speed, and other crap mixed in with the absurdly powerful strength, range, efficiency does not lessen the power of these absurd buffs it just means you waste more resources and receive more disappointment until you reach rng jackpot which is a bad system no matter what you believe. A have and have not system by its very nature isnt any semblance of balance.

More importantly If my suggestion comes with some nerfs to potency thats fine and dandy, but frankly who cares if the game is piss easy? I want some fun S#&$ to show up in my invigorations menu and I put in the work and resources (despite you dismissing those as nothing) so I should receive something I don't find categorically useless.

Edited by quietcanary
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, quietcanary said:

It takes 10 expensive invigorations to fill and you can end up receiving 5 jumps and 200% primary damage... on titania

Wait, am I understanding this correctly. Do you mean after 10 invigoration you get 3 the same invigoration and you could change it only to Titania?!

That's probably a bug.

 

When I've done first 10 invigoration I had 3 options. I could pick ANY frame and any options (from 3).

 

ps. and I thought (by reading title) you mean more available options (that Invigoration pick from).

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 48 Minuten schrieb quietcanary:

It takes 10 expensive invigorations to fill and you can end up receiving 5 jumps and 200% primary damage... on titania. Can we please get more chances at rolling if you don't want anything it provides? Perhaps just generate 3 and be allowed to pick one upon use? Or have it display what it will be before even spending resources on it, similiar to the other invigorations, it is just able to be used on any frame?

I don't know but this isn't even worth using in its current iteration. Don' t tell me its meant to be like this.

It is an incentive to play other warframes than you play usually. For example, I played Valkyr this week and was pleasantly surprised how strong the frame is. I got 200% melee crit chance and 75% efficiency.
This week I have 200% energy and 200% strength Excalibur to play with.

Love the system.

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So...you can bank these.

 

I did my 10...and neither of the remaining two options mattered to me.  I added them...and it did nothing.  The next week brought a grand total of nothing.  I put nothing in.  The following week I got 200% duration and immunity to status effects.  Slapped that on Zephyr, and I got to run as one of the best cc options (tornado) and immunity to almost all annoyances (knockdown is a status).

 

If nothing floats your boat, and no frames are to your liking, bank that thing.

 

Regarding the discussion of being OP...  This is a power fantasy.  It's nice to be able to rebuild certain frames for giggles.  Nothing quite like dropping an efficiency and duration boost onto something like a Chroma... so you can build slightly more edgy without having huge compromises.  The only shame is it being one week in four...assuming a good rng roll.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly I'm done with the system, did my 10, wasted a ton of resources, got my free pick and then got an absolute trash stat roll on it. Nothing I could even make use of for the frame I chose. System is not worth dabbling in, I just check it once a week to see if there's anything good (there usually isn't) and that's where I'll remain. Not going to invest any effort into the RNG of the RNG hoping for a decent buff for one of my used frames.

Frankly though I don't even care if its buffed, its just not for me.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't mind any changes they make to this system, as long as the instant I see a single recruitment message seeking Invigorations DE pulls a ripcord and jettisons the entire thing.  But as long as Invigorations are a nothing more than a fun bonus, cool cool, bring them on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, quxier said:

Wait, am I understanding this correctly. Do you mean after 10 invigoration you get 3 the same invigoration and you could change it only to Titania?!

That's probably a bug.

 

When I've done first 10 invigoration I had 3 options. I could pick ANY frame and any options (from 3).

 

ps. and I thought (by reading title) you mean more available options (that Invigoration pick from).

No i was suggesting instead of being forced into whatever selection rng picks for you that it generates 3 choices and you get to pick from amongst those instead.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, quietcanary said:

5 jumps and 200% primary damage... on titania.

So areal bombardment Titania+Bramma? If you cant use them to make wacky meme builds and instead just want moar power then I repsect your views.
But they pretty ew tho.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, quietcanary said:

It takes 10 expensive invigorations to fill and you can end up receiving 5 jumps and 200% primary damage... on titania.

Honestly my friend, I mean this in the best way possible, but... this does sound like a you problem.

The three Invigorations that week are reasonably random, and the Override option isn't so you can get your ideal buff on your ideal frame every time, it's so that if you see one you do like, you can put it on a frame that you do like more than the frame it's on.

I mean, I'm a big fan of Zephyr, and I ran into the same situation as @master_of_destiny who managed to sneak the point in before me; I found that nothing really worked for me, so I held on and found a 100% Range and Immunity to Status version the week after I'd hit 10, so I used that instead.

You don't have to use your Override every time, especially not if the frame you really want it to be on doesn't benefit from any of the options. You can, instead, put those Invigorations on the frames they were generated for, or not, it's up to you. It's a good way to gain the necessary 5 ranks after the system was expanded, and after that it's entirely optional.

Invigorations are, funnily enough, weighted to get you rolls for frames that are (statistically) the least used in the game, with the ones that are more played getting less chance to be Invigorated. (Check the Wiki, out of 46 frames, there are 7 that have double the chance to be picked than any of the others, with a further 7 having less chance to be picked.)

Why? Because that's kind of the point; DE want you to play frames that are less used than the meta. Frames that may not be in your usual roster to play with. Play random frames that you haven't touched in a while, but the Invigoration suddenly gives you a week with a stat that you might actually like on them.

I haven't played Garuda in a while, but I pulled an Invigoration for Range and an extra 1000 Armour that made her way more satisfying to play around with on a Gloom build that allowed me to ditch a couple of mods and put in others that I wouldn't normally use. Spent a week just enjoying the frame with Yareli's animations on her to show off dat booty, and when the week ended I just put her back in the Arsenal and only bring her out for screenshots ^^

See? That's the reason the system exists.

Not to make frames more powerful on command.

Your request to generate three new invigorations when you hit the Override? Why do you need a second roll of the dice? It already randomised you three stats, and there's no guarantee that any of the new ones are going to satisfy you either. So all you're doing is being impatient, rather than asking for a better system.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

It is an incentive to play other warframes than you play usually. For example, I played Valkyr this week and was pleasantly surprised how strong the frame is. I got 200% melee crit chance and 75% efficiency.
This week I have 200% energy and 200% strength Excalibur to play with.

Love the system.

There isn't any frame I don't play besides 3 of the absolute worst ones. No invigoration is going to make me play them either. The problem is the regular invigorations are actually a better deal than the "choose your own" generated one after you reach 10 because you don't actually get to see it before you waste all 10 stacks and then still have to spend the resources to equip it.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, T-Shark69 said:

So areal bombardment Titania+Bramma? If you cant use them to make wacky meme builds and instead just want moar power then I repsect your views.
But they pretty ew tho.

Thats not a titania build. Thats a any-random-body-with-a-weapon=slot build. The problem isn't that i lack creativity its that my idea of fun is not purposely equipping nonsense and calling it creative. If i get any buff with a little bit of synergy for the actual frame thats probably ok by me. If the buffs it provides are just extra stats that offer 0 synergy you might as well have just been playing inaros with a gun.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, quietcanary said:

Thats not a titania build. Thats a any-random-body-with-a-weapon=slot build. The problem isn't that i lack creativity its that my idea of fun is not purposely equipping nonsense and calling it creative. If i get any buff with a little bit of synergy for the actual frame thats probably ok by me. If the buffs it provides are just extra stats that offer 0 synergy you might as well have just been playing inaros with a gun.

Pretty ew.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, quietcanary said:

The problem isn't that i lack creativity its that my idea of fun is not purposely equipping nonsense and calling it creative.

Did you have fun before this system was introduced? This is a completely arbitrary boost to our warframes. I understand that you don't agree with my original post (to which you were a little rude, I might add) but the fact remains that this is a system that stacks power ontop of power. 

If you don't get a good roll then don't use the system. If you don't want to risk a bad roll on your bonus, then don't do it. Invigorations are not needed to satisfy the 'power fantasy' and they sure as hell don't need to be buffed.

Just because you want an already overpowered system to throw more power your way doesn't mean it is a good idea. It just further perpetuates the idea that a healthy % of the playerbase would rather throw challenge out the window so they can make bigger numbers appear on screen.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

absolutely not.

The invigoration system is already wildly overpowered. We don't need it to be buffed, my dude.

I'd like to clarify this, the system isn't exactly overpowered, it's more like a riven with time constraints

 

You can get overpowered buffs, but it's all rng, you will get way more useless buffs than good ones; just like OP said, +5 jumps on Titania isn't exactly what I would call useful, I wonder why it's even here in the first place

 

To put it simply, I don't find this system worth it

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, quietcanary said:

No i was suggesting instead of being forced into whatever selection rng picks for you that it generates 3 choices and you get to pick from amongst those instead.

 

So when THOSE 3 choices are also not to your liking, what then?  "We should be able to REROLL them!"  ... and then rerolls suck?  "We should be able to LOCK STATS!" 

It never ends.. DE gives an inch, and y'all think you're entitled to a mile.  

It's random. That's a fair as fair gets.  It's random for YOU, for ME, and every other Tenno.  If you decide nothing is worth your Bonus that week, DON'T USE IT. No one is holding a gun to your head to force you to.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Did you have fun before this system was introduced? This is a completely arbitrary boost to our warframes. I understand that you don't agree with my original post (to which you were a little rude, I might add) but the fact remains that this is a system that stacks power ontop of power. 

If you don't get a good roll then don't use the system. If you don't want to risk a bad roll on your bonus, then don't do it. Invigorations are not needed to satisfy the 'power fantasy' and they sure as hell don't need to be buffed.

Just because you want an already overpowered system to throw more power your way doesn't mean it is a good idea. It just further perpetuates the idea that a healthy % of the playerbase would rather throw challenge out the window so they can make bigger numbers appear on screen.

I was exactly as rude as your replies merit. You dismiss my points as if you can just deny them directly without evidence, and I did you a curtesy by reiterating them for you with yet more evidence to invite you to submit your own in response. Don't tell me not to use the system. Don't tell me it has to be this way because you think power is uneeded and not fun because the majority does not agree with you on that. I am literally not even arguing for more power, I am arguing for the gambling blindly to be removed. The power is already here and you need to accept that, now lets make the system for getting something cool actually worth trying rather than investing for weeks in a row to get something worthless and be turned off the system after the first or second time trying it. Until then keep your nerf loving strawman arguments to yourself or go play gears of war if there is too much power creep here for you. I wont be told I'm trying to throw challenge out the window just because i don't think 5 extra jumps is worth weeks of waiting.

 

Edited by quietcanary
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

So when THOSE 3 choices are also not to your liking, what then?  "We should be able to REROLL them!"  ... and then rerolls suck?  "We should be able to LOCK STATS!" 

It never ends.. DE gives an inch, and y'all think you're entitled to a mile.  

It's random. That's a fair as fair gets.  It's random for YOU, for ME, and every other Tenno.  If you decide nothing is worth your Bonus that week, DON'T USE IT. No one is holding a gun to your head to force you to.

It ends there is what happens. I am not the community and combining a strawman and slippery slope argument doesn't really matter to this discussion. The answer to the question if that WAS what I wanted would be that it would be up to DE (a company full of grown ass adults) to put their foot down. This systems design goals are simple and clear anyway. This is a resources sink in return for temporary power attached to gear that is random for helping people experiment with new things. You know what it currently does? Let you wait weeks for something you already like because the cost is too steep and the rng too random for anybody to actually use it to try new things reliably which forces people away and then won't function as a resource sink whatsoever. I did the invest in every random buff thing since it started just to try it out and I wont be touching the S#&$ty ones any longer. In the end it will be all the same broken power when it does show up but it will be on my terms because DE failed to make it rewarding enough to follow theirs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Ailia_Grimm said:

I'd like to clarify this, the system isn't exactly overpowered, it's more like a riven with time constraints

 

You can get overpowered buffs, but it's all rng, you will get way more useless buffs than good ones; just like OP said, +5 jumps on Titania isn't exactly what I would call useful, I wonder why it's even here in the first place

 

To put it simply, I don't find this system worth it

This is a very good point.

I suppose I should have clarified a bit more about what I meant. When I am calling the system overpowered I mean it is one that only offers improvements. There is no downside to using the system outside of the resource cost. If you roll a crummy set of invigorations then that's a bummer but you're in no worse position. If you get lucky and roll 200% power strength on a number of frames you've effectively opened up many build options that delete all challenge in the game. 

If we were to follow the TC's logic and get rerolls then this system would be even more ridiculous. 

10 minutes ago, quietcanary said:

I was exactly as rude as your replies merit. You dismiss my points as if you can just deny them directly without evidence, and I did you a curtesy by reiterating them for you with yet more evidence to invite you to submit your own in response. Don't tell me not to use the system. Don't tell me it has to be this way because you think power is uneeded and not fun because the majority does not agree. I am literally not even arguing for more power, I am arguing for the gambling blindly to be removed. The power is already here and you need to accept that, now lets make the system for getting something cool actually worth trying rather than investing for weeks in a row to get something worthless and be turned off the system after the first or second time trying it. Until then keep your nerf loving strawman arguments to yourself or go play gears of war there is too much power creep here for you. I wont be told I'm trying to throw challenge out the window just because i don't think 5 extra jumps is worth weeks of waiting.

This is not how you engage in healthy discussions/arguments.

Have a good day.

Edit: And for the record, do you see the little number of upvotes on my initial response. This is because many people disagree with you, my dude. Your suggestion is absurd. Invigorations absolutely need no buff/improvement whatsoever. 

Edited by Leqesai
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, quietcanary said:

There isn't any frame I don't play besides 3 of the absolute worst ones. No invigoration is going to make me play them either. The problem is the regular invigorations are actually a better deal than the "choose your own" generated one after you reach 10 because you don't actually get to see it before you waste all 10 stacks and then still have to spend the resources to equip it.

 

What? Excuse me mate, but when you reach 10 invigorations, you can use any of the 3 available atm on any frame you want. There's no extra hidden roll you don't get to see before commiting. If you dont like any of the 3 you see on the frame you want to buff, wait till they change. You lose nothing. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, (PSN)Jacobivan said:

What? Excuse me mate, but when you reach 10 invigorations, you can use any of the 3 available atm on any frame you want. There's no extra hidden roll you don't get to see before commiting. If you dont like any of the 3 you see on the frame you want to buff, wait till they change. You lose nothing. 

Exactly.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, quietcanary said:

I am arguing for the gambling blindly to be removed

..This ISN'T gambling, though.  Don't misrepresent the system just because you don't like it.

You know EXACTLY what the buff is, AND you know EXACTLY what the buff is for... AND you have to CHOOSE to spend resources (not money) on those buffs..

NONE of this is mandatory... even the bonus invigoration (it can be saved for later weeks).  

So, how is ANY of this "gambling" when it's all 100% upfront?  

 

Spoiler

It's not.

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, quietcanary said:

It takes 10 expensive invigorations to fill and you can end up receiving 5 jumps and 200% primary damage.

...You're SEVERELY underselling 200% Primary damage on ANY frame.

200% anything to almost any top of the line weapon is obnoxious power creep as it is, we don't need even more nonsense from invigorations making it worse.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

...You're SEVERELY underselling 200% Primary damage on ANY frame.

200% anything to almost any top of the line weapon is obnoxious power creep as it is, we don't need even more nonsense from invigorations making it worse.

Yes... Thank you for posting this, sir.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...