The "Pick a Invigoration" sucks pretty hard, can we get more options?

[quietcanary]

11 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I was more pointing out that calling him a bad frame was kind of a misnomer.

Really "bad" frames are a very short list imo, most of them fall into the "Really outdated and don't fit with current Warframe" issue than anything.

I mean even Nyx has a niche...an insanely small niche of "deletes armor and shields from anything not ability immune", but she's still good for that...then there's Hydroid, who I earnestly believe is the single worst frame in the game at the moment.

Regardless of my opinion on frames however, 200% Primary Weapon damage is still miles ahead of the alternative of "absolutely nothing" regardless of the frame you put it on, that was the original point and why I think Invigorations are already a bad thing for the game's future balance.

Agreed but I did say he was "considered" a bad frame. Personally I consider his niche of extra damage for weapons extremely unique, and the only thing close is banshee which can be limited by the mechanics of debuffing.

[quietcanary]

34 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

By WHOM?  Chroma is a powerhouse! No, you can't self-damage anymore, but that doesn't mean his buffs don't still work!  In fact, his rework made him even BETTER in many ways, as now you're not bound to one energy "type" based on your fashion in a mission.

Stop letting Youtubers decide what constitutes "good/bad" for you.  Every frame in the game is viable, and ANY frame can be made "good" with proper modding and awareness of game mechanics.

Hell, here's one:  Yareli is actually a DECENT frame, too!  I know the talking heads on YT won't agree, but my experiences in Steel Path with her say otherwise.

Don't worry I'm more the kind of person who teaches youtubers than learns what to think from them lol. That being said you assume too much about me that isnt true so please don't. Yareli is bad tho. Personal experience.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

23 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Not to derail this topic but I don't think that's a real strong argument for her being acceptable.

I mean.... with the right subsume sure you could do Mot without issue, but this is true of all frames. I think it is a little off-mark to say she has decent CC but I believe this has been discussed at length in the many Yareli topics.

With enough survivability and powerful weapons Steel Path isn't terribly difficult. 

No subsumes.  And I'm not even that great a player, lol. 

Yes, decent weapons help, as they do with ALL warframes.  Yareli's passive even BUFFS them.

And yeah, her 2nd brings survivability, as does her 1 through CC.  

Regardless, again, I'm not arguing she's some goddess of a frame...  Just that she's fine.   She's sufficient for most players on the starchart, and that's all most frames need to be at this point..   That, or we start releasing frames that are designed for Endgame/SP content, which is only going to add to the powercreep issues, and further alienate new players.

Anyways, like you said, we're derailing a bit here.  Feel free to hmu on a different topic, or PM, though.  Always happy to discuss.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, quietcanary said:

No i was suggesting instead of being forced into whatever selection rng picks for you that it generates 3 choices and you get to pick from amongst those instead.

Ok, so you need to be able to have at most 4 invigoration?
 

17 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

Players need to learn to experiment and think for themselves.  The Helminth Invigorations help them do that, too.

This is so horrible system for experimenting that... I won't laugh. Excluding some +Damage/crit modifiers it's very slow. For example I've put +100 range for my Xaku. With my low duration I could see benefits of it. Ok, that's all. Other Invigis where boring +X damage, health or for frames that I find boring and no amount of stat boost will help it.

I've (probably) posted how Simulacrum could set any stats (e..g. Strength), have infinite resources etc. This way you could test some interesting stuffs. If some values where nice then you can post it to feedback so DE can change given frame.

22 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

The +jumps though... I mean... this should remain because it is kind of a "lel better luck next time" roll that makes sense given the system it is in.

Jumps are the most interesting one. With few tweaks it could be useful. I've only found fun using Grendel's ball.

 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

28 minutes ago, quietcanary said:

 Half the posts already in here are people saying they gave up on the system. That should tell the people watching something they need to understand at least...

"Half the posts" in a single thread, with only 3 pages, on a forum that only has a TINY FRACTION of the overall playerbase present... 

...and on General Discussion, no less..

...and you think that indicative of the larger playerbase's opinions/experience? 

Good grief, I hope you don't spend too much time on Yelp, or else you must think every business is garbage. :/

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

46 minutes ago, Aldain said:

...You're SEVERELY underselling 200% Primary damage on ANY frame.

200% anything to almost any top of the line weapon is obnoxious power creep as it is, we don't need even more nonsense from invigorations making it worse.

It's really not as significant as you might think. Every gun has a +360% damage mod now, so 200% damage is just a ~44% relative gain. And that's not counting using Serration/Galvanized status mods. It's not a terrible buff sure, but I'd take a Warframe related stat buff anytime over it.

[quietcanary]

31 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

It's not.  I'm not saying she's "OMG AMAZEBALLZ" levels of good.  She's just... fine. good. acceptable.

I've taken her into SP Mot several times, and never gone down.  Her CC is decent.

I'm not RECOMMENDING anyone do that, but fact of the matter is... if you only listen to Youtubers and such, you'd think she's complete S#&$e and couldn't last five minutes in anything beyond Hydron, which is just not true.

Players need to learn to experiment and think for themselves.  The Helminth Invigorations help them do that, too.

I mean I dont think that what youtubers are actually implying at all. Most just say she does nothing and has no synergy between her powers to change that. Whether she is squishy or not is mostly unmentioned except when complaining that mariredlimabean is bad, which its true that the power is crap (blocks interactions and limits way to many other things that could improve it) but the actual reason they hate it is the terrible kdrive mechanics stacked in tbh

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

26 minutes ago, MrWrightPlays said:

Alright, this is a little wrong since only one person I saw respond to this topic actually said the right thing while everyone else was arguing the efficacy of the system, not how it actually worked

Was more responding to his aggressive tone in the first few posts.  To get the right answers, we need to ask the right questions.

For example, "Debbie?  Do you know why some money was missing from the deposit slip today?" is a COMPLETELY different approach than "DEBBIE, YOU POS! THE MONEY'S MISSING! DID YOU TAKE IT? You DID didn't you?!"

....

or to put it simpler...  "You catch more bees with honey than vinegar."

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

28 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Her biggest problems are that her 3 is undertuned, her 2 is buggy as hell and her 4 needs more range and maybe a tap/hold version, tap for a quick whirlpool for less energy and hold to gather them in and pop them after.

Her 1 is fairly decent imo, compared to a lot of 1s at least (Looking at you Nyx).

Very fair points, all :) 

Her 4 being a "Hold to continuously channel" could be fun, too, tbh...   but again, I suppose this is getting away from the topic, lol.

I only meant to point out that one shouldn't believe all the headlines, and should try things out for themselves in the game.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

28 minutes ago, quietcanary said:

Was making a point that 200% primary damage doesn't mean jack diddly. Even if it did it wouldn't change how i'd feel about it. gotta keep on topic lol

200% damage increase is LITERALLY doubling your damage, though.  That ABSOLUTELY means "jack diddly".  

You may not CARE about it, but it is an objective fact that that 200% is a straight-up, no-drawbacks BUFF.  

And to be fair, that is EXACTLY on topic.. because you're arguing about the merits of a system whilst ignoring/disregarding the obvious benefits it has just because YOU don't like them.

[quietcanary]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

"Half the posts" in a single thread, with only 3 pages, on a forum that only has a TINY FRACTION of the overall playerbase present... 

...and on General Discussion, no less..

...and you think that indicative of the larger playerbase's opinions/experience? 

Good grief, I hope you don't spend too much time on Yelp, or else you must think every business is garbage. :/

You are doing this thing were you are extrapolating that im some sort of maroon when I clearly said the posts "already in here" to limit it as a point of fact. I'm aware the sample size ain't S#&$ but in actual amount of people who responded to this why are 1/3rd only responses that im wrong to some degree and the rest are people defeated by how S#&$ the system was? I've already clarified why I actually was wrong in my understanding of how the pick a invigoration works, so ill leave the second question to you. In the mean time I'm going to skip the yelp reviews since every business is garbage by its very nature so whatever lol.

Btw thats like, literally what indicative means.

[quietcanary]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

Was more responding to his aggressive tone in the first few posts.  To get the right answers, we need to ask the right questions.

For example, "Debbie?  Do you know why some money was missing from the deposit slip today?" is a COMPLETELY different approach than "DEBBIE, YOU POS! THE MONEY'S MISSING! DID YOU TAKE IT? You DID didn't you?!"

....

or to put it simpler...  "You catch more bees with honey than vinegar."

Yeah I didn't assault anyone with vinegar. Closest I got was the first response and that's just the nature of standing your ground when someone argues out of bad faith. If it sounded like scolding its because it justifiably was.

[iHeuksal]

I am even avoiding using the invigoration system, as that is an OP-bandaid system, which I don't like. DE should rather fix the frames, but they do rather go for the easier way.

Buffing it seems way beyond common sense.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

7 minutes ago, quietcanary said:

You are doing this thing were you are extrapolating that im some sort of maroon when I clearly said the posts "already in here" to limit it as a point of fact. I'm aware the sample size ain't S#&$ but in actual amount of people who responded to this why are 1/3rd only responses that im wrong to some degree and the rest are people defeated by how S#&$ the system was? I've already clarified why I actually was wrong in my understanding of how the pick a invigoration works, so ill leave the second question to you. In the mean time I'm going to skip the yelp reviews since every business is garbage by its very nature so whatever lol.

Btw thats like, literally what indicative means.

I didn't misspeak, kiddo. 

You have nothing resembling a sample group here.  After several hours, you have only 421 views, and of those, ONLY 60someodd replies, most of which are the same users replying to each other.

Of the 50,000,000+ registered Warframe players, that's not even a 10th of a percentile of the playerbase.  Not even CLOSE.

That you find that to indicate some "larger" issue is nothing but you looking for confirmation bias.

Anyways, if you're just gonna get all "high and mighty", I'm done.  Keep whining about free, voluntary features in GD.  I got better things to do... like watch paint dry.

[quietcanary]

5 minutes ago, iHeuksal said:

I am even avoiding using the invigoration system, as that is an OP-bandaid system, which I don't like. DE should rather fix the frames, but they do rather go for the easier way.

Buffing it seems way beyond common sense.

You should try reading the post maybe and then it won't leave you assuming things about my common sense.

 

[Leqesai]

38 minutes ago, quxier said:

Jumps are the most interesting one. With few tweaks it could be useful. I've only found fun using Grendel's ball.

Oh there could definitely be some silly meme builds using extra jumps. I used to do a full aerial control build with zeohyr prior to her getting perma hover. With 5 extra jumps you could do some wacky stuff.

[Birdframe_Prime]

57 minutes ago, quietcanary said:

Hate to be that guy but It was actually a misunderstanding

Fair enough ^^

[quietcanary]

1 hour ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

 

...
 

You can literally argue the facts against yourself here, then.

You quoted me and specifically showed me saying strawman twice, instead of "strawmanning" what is there to even argue here?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

5 hours ago, quietcanary said:

It takes 10 expensive invigorations to fill and you can end up receiving 5 jumps and 200% primary damage... on titania. Can we please get more chances at rolling if you don't want anything it provides? Perhaps just generate 3 and be allowed to pick one upon use? Or have it display what it will be before even spending resources on it, similiar to the other invigorations, it is just able to be used on any frame?

I don't know but this isn't even worth using in its current iteration. Don' t tell me its meant to be like this.

How are you entitled to something that just released? 

This is the system. It's balanced by making you even make this thread. Be happy with what you have.

And 5 jumps is actually op and a great addition for people that can actually utilize it.

[quietcanary]

19 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

How are you entitled to something that just released? 

This is the system. It's balanced by making you even make this thread. Be happy with what you have.

And 5 jumps is actually op and a great addition for people that can actually utilize it.

What nonsense are you speaking? Jumps are not OP.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

18 hours ago, quietcanary said:

-snip-

Nonsense is wanting to choose invigorations for whatever frame you want 24/7.

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Nonsense is wanting to choose invigorations for whatever frame you want 24/7.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

And jump resets are OP....OP fun:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Motus_Signal

[quxier]

8 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

 

And 5 jumps is actually op and a great addition for people that can actually utilize it.

Examples?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

38 minutes ago, quxier said:

Examples?

Wisp passive.