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Would it be possible to allow people to access the Steel Essence shop without having Steel Path unlocked?


Orrion_the_Kitsune
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I often do Steel Path missions, sometimes alone (a friend takes me there, leaves, and does their own thing) or sometimes as an assistant to help with Acolytes. I have ~72 Steel Essence right now, and most of that could go to something useful instead of rotting there until I unlock the rest of the nodes. Would DE be able to add a simple QoL feature allowing people who have earned Steel Essence in any way to buy stuff from Tenshin's shop without actually having Steel Path unlocked? There's no issue with this, as older players need to already be bringing newer/lower MR players with them into missions to allow them to acquire Steel Essence in the first place, and their attitude is mostly "if you can't do it alone we won't taxi you" which is itself a barrier preventing people from farming newbies Steel Essence. It wouldn't discourage unlocking Steel Path, either, as Steel Path allows easy solo-farming of Steel Essence and there won't always be people with the chart cleared to taxi you over.

Edited by Orrion_the_Kitsune
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hace 11 minutos, Orrion_the_Kitsune dijo:

So~, I often do Steel Path missions with higher-MR friends of mine simply because they're fun. I have ~72 Steel Essence right now, and most of that could go to riven rolling - something I really enjoy. Tediously farming Kuva Siphons and/or Survival, if I even had them unlocked, only serves to make the process of maxing rivens more boring! Would DE be able to add a simple QoL feature allowing people who have earned Steel Essence in any way to buy stuff from Tenshin's shop without actually having Steel Path unlocked? There's no foreseeable issue with this, as older players need to already be bringing newer/lower MR players with them into missions to allow them to acquire Steel Essence in the first place. It wouldn't discourage unlocking Steel Path, either, as Steel Path allows easy solo-farming of Steel Essence and there won't always be people with the chart cleared to taxi you over so you can farm to your heart's content.

QoL feature? Im not sure about this being a QoL but whatever.

I mean, unlocking the steel path is fairly easy because you only need to complete the star chart and any regular player could do it but I would like to see what Teshin thinks about being taxi-ed hmhmhm

Edited by VoidArkhangel
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... That shop's existence relies on Steel Path, since its a shop open to those that actually have Steel Path unlocked... Keyword "Unlocked", because anyone can run Steel Path if someone serves as a taxi for it and collect Steel Essence from it...

... Something that shouldn't happen in the first place.

 

Now with that out of the way, DE can focus on The New War properly...

"You're irrelevant to this discussion" Well, that's the thing, this isn't a discussion. Its Feedback, and I'm providing mine regarding that subject.

 

Thank you, everyone, but you can all go home now. Move along, nothing to see here.

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not to sound rude or that: why not finish the star chart and get access like the rest of us?

and if it was me. they should totaly disable taxi if u didnt complete normal starchart

Edited by fo3nixz
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Unlocking the whole star chart is just busy work and takes very little time if you know what you're doing.

And just like the previous poster said - I also would like taxis to be fully disabled if you haven't unlocked the base star chart.

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1 hour ago, fo3nixz said:

not to sound rude or that: why not finish the star chart and get access like the rest of us?

and if it was me. they should totaly disable taxi if u didnt complete normal starchart

Totally agree here, just unlock the SP chart.. not everything in this game is or should be just given to players.. SP chart takes very little effort to finish .. and for the OP 72 SE wont do diddly squat in regards to Kuva .. Just get on with it get stuck in and then you could spend all that lovely SE on the Kuva to play the DE slot machine.. good luck with your few rolls though.. :)

Edited by -AncientWarrior-
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Huh

you can get Taxied into Steel Path, and collect Essence even if you don't have SP Unlocked.

that's a big oversight, DE should probably fix it.

 

Hey MODs, can we get this thread moved to Bug Reports?

Bug: Players who have not unlocked Steel Path, can be taxied into SP missions.

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I'm kind of on board with the above posters. If you haven't gained access to SP, you shouldn't have access to the shop. Being taxied to SP missions isn't as bad as new players being taxied to Hydron to level stuff before they understand the game, but it's still not great IMHO. Just complete the star chart, with help if needed, but really you should be able to handle the regular chart at least mostly solo if you know what you're doing and are ready to SP without being totally carried there.

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just unlock the star chart, takes a few hours at most. if youre able to survive steel path missions you probably have something that can take hits from regular star chart. get some weapon that can deal decent damage and finish the chart. 

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Someone new being taxied to SP isn't "earning" anything. SP is a gear check, something most people at that point would be completely lacking and would be getting carried. Steel Path's requirement for entry is already extremely forgiving and doesn't take that long time meet.

Being taxied there already seems more like an oversight, given there is content that does prevent this from happening, and SP should've been one of those.

If anything, anyone at early stages should be thankful that they can be carried and get SE without needing SP unlocked, that way when they do unlock it, they can just spend it all then.

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52 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

Someone new being taxied to SP isn't "earning" anything. SP is a gear check, something most people at that point would be completely lacking and would be getting carried. Steel Path's requirement for entry is already extremely forgiving and doesn't take that long time meet.

Being taxied there already seems more like an oversight, given there is content that does prevent this from happening, and SP should've been one of those.

If anything, anyone at early stages should be thankful that they can be carried and get SE without needing SP unlocked, that way when they do unlock it, they can just spend it all then.

^ this.
If you havent bothered to unlock it why should DE./teshin be bothered to reward you?

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7 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

... That shop's existence relies on Steel Path, since its a shop open to those that actually have Steel Path unlocked... Keyword "Unlocked", because anyone can run Steel Path if someone serves as a taxi for it and collect Steel Essence from it...

... Something that shouldn't happen in the first place.

 

Now with that out of the way, DE can focus on The New War properly...

"You're irrelevant to this discussion" Well, that's the thing, this isn't a discussion. Its Feedback, and I'm providing mine regarding that subject.

 

Thank you, everyone, but you can all go home now. Move along, nothing to see here.

I actually think your feedback is relevant here.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Zhoyzu said:

^ this.
If you havent bothered to unlock it why should DE./teshin be bothered to reward you?

At least when I'm doing it, I'm not being carried - often ranking above the people who taxi'd me in kills and damage - and have yet to get Hate/Despair which have a halved drop rate once I finish tSD. There's absolutely no chance a new player and/or one lacking gear will get to experience SP at all, given the attitude of veteran players willing to taxi you, and there's even less of a chance that they'll know about SP in the first place. Meanwhile, people who want to be taxi'd over because they can solo the missions (a lot of people will leave after the taxi) have to wait a while to be able to spend something they've earned. Isn't that a little unreasonable?

If being taxi'd over is an unintended feature, though I'm not sure how it would be, I'd be in support of it being removed or reworked to give something more immediately useful than Steel Essence. Disabling taxis to SP entirely would make it a lot more difficult to farm things like polymer bundles, however, so it'd probably be best if the actual accessibility of SP was untouched.

Edit: If there are some nodes you can't taxi to, then how is it an oversight that you can taxi to SP? That seems like a strange conclusion. Veterans will already taxi players to Hydron on a whim, whether you like it or not, and it's only to the benefit of the game. I'm only suggesting we allow people with sufficient knowledge (maybe a solo completion of the mission they were taxi'd to as a requirement?) to access Tenshin early.

Edited by Orrion_the_Kitsune
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How many missions do you have left to do? You probably could have unlocked it yourself in the time it took to write this thread. The normal starchart is easy if you're already trying to run SP.

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Deminisis said:

How many missions do you have left to do? You probably could have unlocked it yourself in the time it took to write this thread. The normal starchart is easy if you're already trying to run SP.

A lot more than you may think. I'm avoiding doing The Second Dream because I want Hate and Despair, and their drop rates are halved on the Shadow Stalker. I guess complaining about that may be better, but DE's not going to fix it while they may at least QoL SP.

Edit: You need Op. form to do the Ropalolyst, and Ropalolyst's node is required to access SP.

Edited by Orrion_the_Kitsune
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4 часа назад, Deminisis сказал:

How many missions do you have left to do?

Like a lot a lot

 PLyFKsJ.png

 

 

Look, I usually advocate for new players friendly stuff and try to be a grounded person with no elitist mindset, but this... Ok, lets turn the "Ima elite playa" mod on for a bit.

6 часов назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

and have yet to get Hate/Despair which have a halved drop rate once I finish tSD

What's the point of this? Is having stalker weapons some sort of graduation certificate? "Look I'm not a newb anymore, I have Hate!"

6 часов назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

I'm not being carried

6 часов назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

There's absolutely no chance a new player and/or one lacking gear will get to experience SP at all, given the attitude of veteran players willing to taxi you, and there's even less of a chance that they'll know about SP in the first place.

How do you call being told by your friends this exists then? SP is NOT meant for new players, thus it is only natural to them not being able to know about that stuff.

6 часов назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

people who want to be taxi'd over because they can solo the missions

Also with you having 50 hours playtime it's rich to be talking about being ready. Especially considering you are running mr13-14 gear on a mr9 character. Not the best high-mr gear in the world for the most part, but still. You have the damn kronen! Buying stuff =/= being ready. Being given all the mods by other people =/= being ready either. Also how about having evidence? With the selection of gear in your disposal I find it kinda hard to believe your claims. What are you solo killing those guys with? Aklato or MK1-Furis or regular Burston? Also while we are at it, don't run the kronen/gram build you were given. Try out the build you should have gotten with the mods you actually acquired in missions, not bought with plat or given to ya. Heck, run those Scindo or Ankyros you have. Hard to drop some weird demand on ya in warframe department, cause you pretty much have only immortals in your inventory

hfKZYXY.png

Ok, run Nyx. She requires at least 2 buttons to survive.

Aaaanyways, have some god damn patience. The attitude of "Ima need this high level content NAO!!!!11111 Give it to me!!111" is what make me boil. 

Back to not being a d*ck.

6 часов назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

That seems like a strange conclusion. Veterans will already taxi players to Hydron on a whim, whether you like it or not, and it's only to the benefit of the game.

It is anything but to the benefit. I'm not making a big secret that I despise Hydron and Helene leveling practice. That's how we get legions of brain dead high mr people who somehow manage to die while being f-ing Inaros! Inaros, Carl! Yeah, mr doesn't mean anything in terms of experience but even that number aside, when people are sending new players to those "exp farms" it is a giant, monumental disservice to both those players and the game. It doesn't teach them sh*t.

6 часов назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

If being taxi'd over is an unintended feature

DE were removing ways to taxi people to stuff they were unintended to be participating in (e.g. that was locked behind some kind of progression goal) for some time. Like Profit Taker fight. Granted that was achieved via exploit of sorts. Also as far as I know one can't be taxied to lua without second dream or to kuva fortress without war within even though once can be absolutely able to clear missions there without mechanics granted by those quests. So having the taxi to SP seems like a totally out of place thing. All and all you should not be able to load into SP mission without it unlocked, that's an oversight on DE's part.

Edited by Darth_Predator
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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Darth_Predator said:

Like a lot a lot

 PLyFKsJ.png

 

 

Look, I usually advocate for new players friendly stuff and try to be a grounded person with no elitist mindset, but this... Ok, lets turn the "Ima elite playa" mod on for a bit.

What's the point of this? Is having stalker weapons some sort of graduation certificate? "Look I'm not a newb anymore, I have Hate!"

How do you call being told by your friends this exists then? SP is NOT meant for new players, thus it is only natural to them not being able to know about that stuff.

Also with you having 50 hours playtime it's rich to be talking about being ready. Especially considering you are running mr13-14 gear on a mr9 character. Not the best high-mr gear in the world for the most part, but still. You have the damn kronen! Buying stuff =/= being ready. Being given all the mods by other people =/= being ready either. Also how about having evidence? With the selection of gear in your disposal I find it kinda hard to believe your claims. What are you solo killing those guys with? Aklato or MK1-Furis or regular Burston? Also while we are at it, don't run the kronen/gram build you were given. Try out the build you should have gotten with the mods you actually acquired in missions, not bought with plat or given to ya. Heck, run those Scindo or Ankyros you have. Hard to drop some weird demand on ya in warframe department, cause you pretty much have only immortals in your inventory

hfKZYXY.png

Ok, run Nyx. She requires at least 2 buttons to survive.

Aaaanyways, have some god damn patience. The attitude of "Ima need this high level content NAO!!!!11111 Give it to me!!111" is what make me boil. 

Back to not being a d*ck.

It is anything but to the benefit. I'm not making a big secret that I despise Hydron and Helene leveling practice. That's how we get legions of brain dead high mr people who somehow manage to die while being f-ing Inaros! Inaros, Carl! Yeah, mr doesn't mean anything in terms of experience but even that number aside, when people are sending new players to those "exp farms" it is a giant, monumental disservice to both those players and the game. It doesn't teach them sh*t.

DE were removing ways to taxi people to stuff they were unintended to be participating in (e.g. that was locked behind some kind of progression goal) for some time. Like Profit Taker fight. Granted that was achieved via exploit of sorts. Also as far as I know one can't be taxied to lua without second dream or to kuva fortress without war within even though once can be absolutely able to clear missions there without mechanics granted by those quests. So having the taxi to SP seems like a totally out of place thing. All and all you should not be able to load into SP mission without it unlocked, that's an oversight on DE's part.

First of all, not everyone wants Hate because it's an okay scythe. If I was looking for stats, Reaper Prime is better by most metrics, but it doesn't have the look of Hate which is the key thing I like about Hate. Since the backbone of Warframe's economy is fashion, I'm pretty sure you can appreciate cosmetic appearance enough to stuff your criticism of people wanting specific weapons because they look good.

The entire point of my argument is that new players wouldn't know about SP, and therefore they wouldn't know about Tenshin's shop. Giving people without SP unlocked access to the shop, even if exclusively through relays, doesn't change this and that's the point: there's no reason not to. It may even have some benefits, as it encourages people to group together manually (encouraging interaction) for difficult content and rewards from that content.

I would suggest you don't make the mistake of thinking this is my only account. If you put the time into skimming my posting history instead of my in-game stats, it'd be pretty obvious to you that my knowledge extends further than you think but I guess you find in-game statistics more representative for some reason. It's your problem though, not mine, so this is where my criticism of your attitude ends.

I use Valkyr Prime and the Hirudo. If you think it isn't viable for SP, you should try it sometime. I know your opinion here would be based in ignorance, as SP Hydron using this setup is a fun and very doable romp.

SO is a better way to level under most conditions anyway, but Hydron doesn't include nullifiers and so is often used for leveling because it's easier, not necessarily better. SO and ESO can be unlocked earlier, too. I don't see you complaining about that. It's probably because more people do Hydron than SO, but nonetheless you need to be even with your criticisms. Or is there another motive?

It turns out you can't taxi people to SP Kuva Fortress or SP Lua. It's almost as if the SP taxi is intentional. SP is a difficulty modifier, and so if a consenting individual is to team up with someone who has it unlocked, what's your problem with it exactly? Oh no, someone wants to carry their friend through SP. Oh no, a player wants to farm polymer bundles on SP because it's easier! The horror! The horror of consenting individuals' actions!

Seriously. Add me and take me to a SP mission. I'll clear it single-handedly, and I'll let you watch. Want to take me up on the offer, or are you already convinced that the axiom of your argument is too flawed to be worth further pursuit? I may come across as a bit snide and sarcastic, but you're treating me like a new player without having the first idea of what I do, how I do it, or why I do it. It is a bit ridiculous.

Edited by Orrion_the_Kitsune
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2 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

The entire point of my argument is that new players wouldn't know about SP, and therefore they wouldn't know about Tenshin's shop.

By finishing the Starchart they'll get a transmission-invitation from Teshin to get into SP. SP unlocks at the same time as Arbitration. Players can find out about Arbitration when they wonder around the relays talking to the NPCs specifically the Arbitration Honors, who will give them a list of nodes they have to unlock.

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4 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

The entire point of my argument is that new players wouldn't know about SP, and therefore they wouldn't know about Tenshin's shop. Giving people without SP unlocked access to the shop, even if exclusively through relays, doesn't change this and that's the point: there's no reason not to.

Reason not to: Resources from Teshin's Shop are only revealed and explained in Quests after The Second Dream, including Umbral Modding (which is what you want Umbral Forma for), Rivens, Kuva and Arcane Unlockers, or even just explaining the Dax cosmetics.

Reason not to: Steel Path is a harder mode unlocked only after completing the regular Star Chart, and the shop is a reward for that game mode. Being able to access the game mode in the first place by skipping this process should be classed as a bug and removed from your options as a player that has not unlocked them.

Versus

Your reason to: Because I want it without the same investment that other players put in.

And your only current reason that you don't want to put in the same investment that other players have to is... Because you want to grind a particular weapon with a higher drop chance... because it lowers if you progress the game more...

Tell you something funny?

That's called Entitlement.

I diagnose you with 'Karen'.

Edited by Birdframe_Prime
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12 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

At least when I'm doing it, I'm not being carried - often ranking above the people who taxi'd me in kills and damage - and have yet to get Hate/Despair which have a halved drop rate once I finish tSD. There's absolutely no chance a new player and/or one lacking gear will get to experience SP at all, given the attitude of veteran players willing to taxi you, and there's even less of a chance that they'll know about SP in the first place. Meanwhile, people who want to be taxi'd over because they can solo the missions (a lot of people will leave after the taxi) have to wait a while to be able to spend something they've earned. Isn't that a little unreasonable?

If being taxi'd over is an unintended feature, though I'm not sure how it would be, I'd be in support of it being removed or reworked to give something more immediately useful than Steel Essence. Disabling taxis to SP entirely would make it a lot more difficult to farm things like polymer bundles, however, so it'd probably be best if the actual accessibility of SP was untouched.

Edit: If there are some nodes you can't taxi to, then how is it an oversight that you can taxi to SP? That seems like a strange conclusion. Veterans will already taxi players to Hydron on a whim, whether you like it or not, and it's only to the benefit of the game. I'm only suggesting we allow people with sufficient knowledge (maybe a solo completion of the mission they were taxi'd to as a requirement?) to access Tenshin early.

Dont get me wrong i dont care if people get taxi'd. i Taxi my more than capable but to lazy to complete starchart friend into steel path all the time. I just dont think he should be able to spend his steel essence til he completes all the nodes.

Its ultimately up to the taxi driver to decide if they want to taxi and be accountable for a liability or to taxi on invite/friends only as to not inconvenience anyone else.

The moment you enter steel path with a second person (any skill level) it becomes 100% easier. So again i've no issues with taxi-ing but leave the rewards to those that set out to be rewarded.

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21 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Would DE be able to add a simple QoL feature allowing people who have earned Steel Essence in any way to buy stuff from Tenshin's shop without actually having Steel Path unlocked? 

It's not a QOL feature to have access to the shop, it's a value/reward to those who earned access to it by completing X requirements. 

Being able to enter SP missions without unlocking it would be like an adult taking their child out to drive on the road before he even has his permit/license (IE they don't meet the qualifications, nor have the required appropriate amount of training). It's an oversight on DE's part. It's a disservice for a veteran/experienced player to bring a new player into SP before they have even unlocked it, because you are trying to bypass what is required of the player first. Even with being able to handle SP on your own, it's a matter of completing the starchart to unlock the next section of content "harder mode" to prove that you are willing to do X requirements in order to unlock something beneficial to you, rather than just skipping to dessert before finishing your vegetables. It may seem unfair but everyone had to earn their way through it. Trust me your steel essence won't rot away like argon crystals. It will be there waiting for you once you unlock the SP shop from Teshin.    

Edited by (XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK
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11 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Seriously. Add me and take me to a SP mission. I'll clear it single-handedly, and I'll let you watch. Want to take me up on the offer, or are you already convinced that the axiom of your argument is too flawed to be worth further pursuit? I may come across as a bit snide and sarcastic, but you're treating me like a new player without having the first idea of what I do, how I do it, or why I do it. It is a bit ridiculous.

I'll take you up on that mate, I usually run 2 hr survivals solo, come along, I'll bring speedva and you can kill them all, it'll be nice for someone else to do all the killing .. Ill record the run and post it up .. add me mate .. looking forward to this I havent been carried in a mission for 6 years :)

Edited by -AncientWarrior-
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Woah. Apparently I hit where it hurts most. Call me a sniper.

9 часов назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

I'm pretty sure you can appreciate cosmetic appearance enough

One wo... ok three words - Thanatos Scythe Skin. Nothing else comes even remotely close to this in terms of melee looks. I wish it was usable on everything.

Now when I'm done with good things, lets get back to arguing over the internet, cause fun (no). I could just not write stuff here cause people already said what needs to be said, but alas. Keep your cool during the next walls of text and we yet may come to some middle ground of understanding. Thus I start my obligatory being an a**hole post section.

Спойлер


9 часов назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

The entire point of my argument is that new players wouldn't know about SP, and therefore they wouldn't know about Tenshin's shop. Giving people without SP unlocked access to the shop, even if exclusively through relays, doesn't change this and that's the point: there's no reason not to. It may even have some benefits, as it encourages people to group together manually (encouraging interaction) for difficult content and rewards from that content.

Wait a minute. So you suggest to give access to shop for people without SP unlocked so they can team up manually and do SP, which they don't have unlocked? Cause that's what this paragraph says. Just forget about taxi for a second, cause otherwise there will be no point in locking SP in the first place and general starchart just becomes even more barren then it is now. Not to mention every guy with however long it takes to get to the relay playtime will immediately spam recruit with "taxi me to steel path plox" if that happens, yes I fully believe that will happen.

10 часов назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

I would suggest you don't make the mistake of thinking this is my only account. If you put the time into skimming my posting history instead of my in-game stats, it'd be pretty obvious to you that my knowledge extends further than you think but I guess you find in-game statistics more representative for some reason. It's your problem though, not mine, so this is where my criticism of your attitude ends.

Ah, instant "it's an alt" defense. Classic. Post history is not all the way back to the beginning of time unfortunately (or otherwise cause I had some pretty stupid posts back in the day). Yet for some reason you chose to post from your alt account so by proxy you chose to be judged based on that account progression. I have alt account myself, yet I posted from it only when I needed to answer in recruiting section for the clan said alt is in. I take full responsibility for my word as my main in game identity and don't hide behind another account to avoid the stupidity of my statements being deflected by "oh, he's new, he doesn't know much anyways". You having to hide much?

Back to post history. You may have said some good point in new experience feedback (i agree with only 3 btw), how is this relevant to what you are posting here and now though? So is in new player related or just you being too lazy to finish the chart if you are as experienced as you claim? Why do you even started this SP nonsense with an account you claimed to be was created "to test out the recent new player experience". Why do you need to go to SP all of a sudden? Why do you need to get those rewards on a "new player experience" account when you yourself said that new players have no way to know about it? Esp considering SP is not meant for new players. I would like to quote another person in the thread for this.

6 часов назад, (XBOX)TyeGoo сказал:

It's always funny when people grasp for the most ludicrous schticks trying to address something while also flailing "for the new players!!!11!1!1!" around.

This isn't QoL, this isn't an issue with the game. It's a self imposed issue you brought to yourself. "I don't want to" is not a reason to completely flip flop  things around.

Cause this guy said it best imo.

 

10 часов назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

I use Valkyr Prime and the Hirudo. If you think it isn't viable for SP, you should try it sometime. I know your opinion here would be based in ignorance, as SP Hydron using this setup is a fun and very doable romp.

I love the word "viable' and how people are throwing it around. You know I can actually kill stuff in SP with Mag and Boltor? I actually leveled Mag there while shooting Quanta which I was also leveling, granted I have a ton of capacity to start with. This makes Boltor or Quanta viable for SP. Are those any good there? No. Are they viable? Yes, can kill stuff.

Valkyr + Hirudo... oh boy. So basically you are telling me a cheese setup is what qualifies one for SP? Immortal warframe that can heal like crazy with a weapon that heals probably even faster than the frame. No wonder you hate nullies so much. I can bet if you had access to operator, there would be Magus Lockdown installed as well. Using something not so cheesy, you should try it sometime.

10 часов назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

SO is a better way to level under most conditions anyway, but Hydron doesn't include nullifiers and so is often used for leveling because it's easier, not necessarily better. SO and ESO can be unlocked earlier, too. I don't see you complaining about that. It's probably because more people do Hydron than SO, but nonetheless you need to be even with your criticisms. Or is there another motive?

Let me think... Hmmmm, maybe because SO needs to be unlocked? That you can't be taxied in there on day one with words "here, level your stuff only here cause much exp and others will make work for you"? Cause it offers at leas some measure of variety? No sh*t it is played less than Hydron. In other words I don't complain about SO just because people have to put some work to unlock it by themselves, so this leveling ground is earned, that's a reward they did some effort to get even if token amount. Hydron as I said is just drag the guy there, not my problem anymore. Repeating my own words "It doesn't teach them sh*t". * insert Hydron joke in here *

10 часов назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

Oh no, a player wants to farm polymer bundles on SP because it's easier! The horror! The horror of consenting individuals' actions!

Would you stop putting words in my mouth? You already did that with assuming I didn't know what Hirudo is. Also since when the argument about SP shop suddenly turned into resource farming? So are you concerned with not being able to get those sweet sweet forma/kuva/adapters or with polymer farm? You can't even keep on topic, try harder, * Teshin voice on* learn the discipline in The Conclave.

10 часов назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

Seriously. Add me and take me to a SP mission. I'll clear it single-handedly, and I'll let you watch. Want to take me up on the offer, or are you already convinced that the axiom of your argument is too flawed to be worth further pursuit? I may come across as a bit snide and sarcastic, but you're treating me like a new player without having the first idea of what I do, how I do it, or why I do it. It is a bit ridiculous.

Convinced already? After one rant? Nah mate, that's not how internet arguments work. We didn't even go to real rage infused yelling territory yet. Though you are trying to by the looks of it. I'm yet to use the bulletproof millennial accusations yet. Though I think I should count as a millennial myself? Or no? Hard to decide, moving on.

This concludes my a**hole section.

Now to the normal-ish way of speaking.

Спойлер

You not just "may" come across as snice and sarcastic, you definitely do. So am I, an I'm doing it on purpose in both posts. Call it a draw? As pointed out before, I treat you based on your account progression since that's the only metric I have in front of me. Granted I don't read forums much and I missed the mentioned feedback thread in the beginning. But as mentioned before, demanding stuff is what makes me loose my cool. So I attempted to point out where your arguments were week, be it in a much sarcastic and "elitist" way of speaking (typing?), I even put a clue about that in previous post. By posting from this account you actually look like a Karen as Birdframe_Prime diagnosed you. You ranting at my post didn't help you either. You just made yourself look bad. And I admit, I'd like to get reasonable answers on some of my a**hole section questions, esp about why not post from the main account. Cause that's what a player making such demands should be measured with.

Look at this from our pov, what will you say to a guy you never seen before running in and demanding top tier shop being opened while having in game stats suggesting maybe start of Jupiter progression with giant holes in the other progressions? Forget everything you know about warfrmae and just put yourself in place of your average mr9 who started from scratch and having arsenal like yours minus prime access gear? Would you say that guy is ready? Or would you just facepalm and point in the direction of market for more gear? Honestly you brought it upon yourself. 

The next point. SP is not meant for new players just like Ropalolyst, just like Arbitrations (having exact same unlock requirements as SP btw), just like Eidolons, just like Profit Taker. Dunno where to put Exploiter which is locked behind just grind, but the grind and the boss are kinda not what new players are capable on their own. So this is probably mid tier content. All "high tier" is locked and you can't just taxi there, likewise by extent of that logic SP should also be not taxi-able. Yet here we are, DE forgot about it and thus you ended up with essences. The requirements are there to at least not drop people not geared enough, not knowledgeable enough, not bored enough.

Tbh Hate argument is not really that appealing to me. I got it for my alt like 600 hours in, took it only for mastery cause Thanatos Skin and also I mostly run spears and polearms on my alt => all hail Guandao. What makes it sound even less legit is the fact you bought prime packs, you couldn't have mr13+ weapons on you otherwise. This means you are willing to spend money and have some plat to throw around, why not buy the damn Hate then? Yeah, Stalker weapon pack is like 800 plat, but you dropped a lot of money in already, doesn't seem like you care much about that.

Now take a deep breath, rollback a bit, forget about what you want and actually try to see stuff like we see it. Then you may get what we are saying and provide any counter-arguments without looking as an entitled child like you did before. From this point on there can be at least an attempt of an agreement.

Oh, also I'd like to take you up on your offer of throwing you into SP with me. On my terms though. Which will probably mean the most evil thing I can think of. I was considering doing Mot without any cheese. Basically from what I can remember without going into the game to check the profile again you have Scindo and a couple of other decent melees + Astilla + Nyx or Excal if you like his cc more. No primed mods, no condition overload, no galvanized if you happen to have 'em. Evil? Yup. This should give you another angle on the perspective of why everyone was piling on you. At least that is the plan. Probably tomorrow as it is 2:30 am in my place and I would like to grab my daily reward and go to sleep after work.

 

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Posted (edited)

Nice scythe skin. I might go for that instead of Hate.

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Wait a minute. So you suggest to give access to shop for people without SP unlocked so they can team up manually and do SP, which they don't have unlocked? Cause that's what this paragraph says. Just forget about taxi for a second, cause otherwise there will be no point in locking SP in the first place and general starchart just becomes even more barren then it is now. Not to mention every guy with however long it takes to get to the relay playtime will immediately spam recruit with "taxi me to steel path plox" if that happens, yes I fully believe that will happen.

 

Ah, instant "it's an alt" defense. Classic. Post history is not all the way back to the beginning of time unfortunately (or otherwise cause I had some pretty stupid posts back in the day). Yet for some reason you chose to post from your alt account so by proxy you chose to be judged based on that account progression. I have alt account myself, yet I posted from it only when I needed to answer in recruiting section for the clan said alt is in. I take full responsibility for my word as my main in game identity and don't hide behind another account to avoid the stupidity of my statements being deflected by "oh, he's new, he doesn't know much anyways". You having to hide much?

Back to post history. You may have said some good point in new experience feedback (i agree with only 3 btw), how is this relevant to what you are posting here and now though? So is in new player related or just you being too lazy to finish the chart if you are as experienced as you claim? Why do you even started this SP nonsense with an account you claimed to be was created "to test out the recent new player experience". Why do you need to go to SP all of a sudden? Why do you need to get those rewards on a "new player experience" account when you yourself said that new players have no way to know about it? Esp considering SP is not meant for new players. I would like to quote another person in the thread for this.

Cause this guy said it best imo.

 

I love the word "viable' and how people are throwing it around. You know I can actually kill stuff in SP with Mag and Boltor? I actually leveled Mag there while shooting Quanta which I was also leveling, granted I have a ton of capacity to start with. This makes Boltor or Quanta viable for SP. Are those any good there? No. Are they viable? Yes, can kill stuff.

Valkyr + Hirudo... oh boy. So basically you are telling me a cheese setup is what qualifies one for SP? Immortal warframe that can heal like crazy with a weapon that heals probably even faster than the frame. No wonder you hate nullies so much. I can bet if you had access to operator, there would be Magus Lockdown installed as well. Using something not so cheesy, you should try it sometime.

Let me think... Hmmmm, maybe because SO needs to be unlocked? That you can't be taxied in there on day one with words "here, level your stuff only here cause much exp and others will make work for you"? Cause it offers at leas some measure of variety? No sh*t it is played less than Hydron. In other words I don't complain about SO just because people have to put some work to unlock it by themselves, so this leveling ground is earned, that's a reward they did some effort to get even if token amount. Hydron as I said is just drag the guy there, not my problem anymore. Repeating my own words "It doesn't teach them sh*t". * insert Hydron joke in here *

Would you stop putting words in my mouth? You already did that with assuming I didn't know what Hirudo is. Also since when the argument about SP shop suddenly turned into resource farming? So are you concerned with not being able to get those sweet sweet forma/kuva/adapters or with polymer farm? You can't even keep on topic, try harder, * Teshin voice on* learn the discipline in The Conclave.

Convinced already? After one rant? Nah mate, that's not how internet arguments work. We didn't even go to real rage infused yelling territory yet. Though you are trying to by the looks of it. I'm yet to use the bulletproof millennial accusations yet. Though I think I should count as a millennial myself? Or no? Hard to decide, moving on.

While it might dilute matchmaking, no-one's doing low-level nodes anyway. Even during peak hours. There might be one or two people every few hours who suffer through 'em, but for the most part a majority of the star chart is completely empty. Instead of the rare newbie doing low-level content it'll be the rare newbie doing low-level content, which is not much of a difference. The experience is already as dilute as water itself.

If you think I have a problem with nullifiers and/or mischaracterize my criticism of the NPE, I'll put some good faith goggles on for a moment and assume you haven't read the posts you're referring to. If you did, you'd know three things: I want bigger nullifier bubbles, I want them to suppress abilities instead of dispel them, and I'm now using this account as my primary account. You can find the name of my previous account in the NPE post.

If you have difficulty with nullifiers using Valk+Hirudo cheese, you're doing something wrong. Even in 400+ content, Valkyr really gives no S#&$s about nullifiers. You'll probably notice that my criticism of nullifiers has nothing to do with how weak she is in the content, but rather how the current iteration of nullifiers make her and tank frames like her incredibly strong in high-level content while invalidating caster-type frames and/or forcing them to rely on overpowered weapons to compensate. This creates a pretty toxic dynamic that DE seems to be aware of and is slowly fixing. Also, I want scrambus units to have a niche that's not 'nullifier but worse' because I like their design and especially their helmets.

It's pretty easy to level using Coba and Tikai on Earth too. What about the stealth kill affinity bonus, allowing easy 1-30 within two missions if you know where to go? If your criticism is of newbie powerleveling then you can start by asking DE to remove the free-farm affinity from dark sector missions on Earth. You're arbitrarily assigning some horror to being powerleveled in Hydron and forgetting about the numerous other ways newbies can get vast quantities of resources, gear and affinity without putting the so-called """work""" in, and these methods are found across the star chart and regardless of planet or effort/time.

There's utility beyond the SE drops for SP, but yes the topic is about being able to spend SE at Tenshin's shop. If you remove taxis for SP nodes, you remove easy access to resources that are otherwise very tedious to grind for. This is, obviously, bad. Related to this is the original topic, allowing people to just spend the SE without going through the tedium of finishing every node on the base star chart which, if someone can finish a SP mission solo, they can easily do and it's only a matter of how many hijack missions you want to subject yourself to.

If you don't want to take me up on the offer of having me solo a SP mission so you know I'm not bullS#&$ting you, that's fine. -AncientWarrior-, add me and I'll gladly take you up on the offer instead.

 

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You not just "may" come across as snice and sarcastic, you definitely do. So am I, an I'm doing it on purpose in both posts. Call it a draw? As pointed out before, I treat you based on your account progression since that's the only metric I have in front of me. Granted I don't read forums much and I missed the mentioned feedback thread in the beginning. But as mentioned before, demanding stuff is what makes me loose my cool. So I attempted to point out where your arguments were week, be it in a much sarcastic and "elitist" way of speaking (typing?), I even put a clue about that in previous post. By posting from this account you actually look like a Karen as Birdframe_Prime diagnosed you. You ranting at my post didn't help you either. You just made yourself look bad. And I admit, I'd like to get reasonable answers on some of my a**hole section questions, esp about why not post from the main account. Cause that's what a player making such demands should be measured with.

Look at this from our pov, what will you say to a guy you never seen before running in and demanding top tier shop being opened while having in game stats suggesting maybe start of Jupiter progression with giant holes in the other progressions? Forget everything you know about warfrmae and just put yourself in place of your average mr9 who started from scratch and having arsenal like yours minus prime access gear? Would you say that guy is ready? Or would you just facepalm and point in the direction of market for more gear? Honestly you brought it upon yourself. 

The next point. SP is not meant for new players just like Ropalolyst, just like Arbitrations (having exact same unlock requirements as SP btw), just like Eidolons, just like Profit Taker. Dunno where to put Exploiter which is locked behind just grind, but the grind and the boss are kinda not what new players are capable on their own. So this is probably mid tier content. All "high tier" is locked and you can't just taxi there, likewise by extent of that logic SP should also be not taxi-able. Yet here we are, DE forgot about it and thus you ended up with essences. The requirements are there to at least not drop people not geared enough, not knowledgeable enough, not bored enough.

Tbh Hate argument is not really that appealing to me. I got it for my alt like 600 hours in, took it only for mastery cause Thanatos Skin and also I mostly run spears and polearms on my alt => all hail Guandao. What makes it sound even less legit is the fact you bought prime packs, you couldn't have mr13+ weapons on you otherwise. This means you are willing to spend money and have some plat to throw around, why not buy the damn Hate then? Yeah, Stalker weapon pack is like 800 plat, but you dropped a lot of money in already, doesn't seem like you care much about that.

Now take a deep breath, rollback a bit, forget about what you want and actually try to see stuff like we see it. Then you may get what we are saying and provide any counter-arguments without looking as an entitled child like you did before. From this point on there can be at least an attempt of an agreement.

Oh, also I'd like to take you up on your offer of throwing you into SP with me. On my terms though. Which will probably mean the most evil thing I can think of. I was considering doing Mot without any cheese. Basically from what I can remember without going into the game to check the profile again you have Scindo and a couple of other decent melees + Astilla + Nyx or Excal if you like his cc more. No primed mods, no condition overload, no galvanized if you happen to have 'em. Evil? Yup. This should give you another angle on the perspective of why everyone was piling on you. At least that is the plan. Probably tomorrow as it is 2:30 am in my place and I would like to grab my daily reward and go to sleep after work.

No worries, I've retroactively edited this post to remove snide, sarcastic remarks because you're a lot more reasonable than I thought you'd be.

If it was any other MMO I would understand where you come from, but Warframe is an MMO with... a... unique NPE, to say the least. I would be surprised if any newbie was going to subject themselves to it without a friend to run them through the mandatory nodes first. I do get that it might look a bit sus for someone at MR9 to be asking for the end-game shop to be opened up to them, but my question to you would be "have you seen them play?" One of the common criticisms of Warframe's stats, including MR, is that they are non-representative. As an example, you say my stats suggest I may have just begun Jupiter? I'm actually done with Neptune, as the Hyena Pack is a great way to farm Stalker marks and the Index lets me get the credits to farm MR quite easily, both of which retroactively support the point I'm trying to make.

Unfortunately, you can't buy the What Stalker pack if you have the Smoke color pallet, which is also present in another bundle of color pallets and so if you buy that first - as I have - you cannot directly purchase the Stalker pack. I'm pretty sure this is a bug, but still, if you're a sucker for cosmetics like I am and you immediately buy every color pallet because you can, you'll find yourself unable to purchase the Stalker pack because "you already own this item." Kinda' BS tbh, but it is how it is.

I'm aware that random people suggesting semi-drastic changes to progression locks look a bit sus to older players, but on the other hand the real work is in clearing SP nodes, killing the Acolytes, etc. to farm SE. In fact, clearing the planet's nodes provides more SE than farming the Acolytes and you can only acquire node completion by actually unlocking and then doing the node on SP. Unlocking SE itself is not a challenge, it's only a matter of time and/or how willing you are to speedrun nodes.

Edited by Orrion_the_Kitsune
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