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Would it be possible to allow people to access the Steel Essence shop without having Steel Path unlocked?


Orrion_the_Kitsune
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10 hours ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

I'll take you up on that mate, I usually run 2 hr survivals solo, come along, I'll bring speedva and you can kill them all, it'll be nice for someone else to do all the killing .. Ill record the run and post it up .. add me mate .. looking forward to this I havent been carried in a mission for 6 years :)

Let's go. Add me and DM me whenever you're on.

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54 минуты назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

I'm aware that random people suggesting semi-drastic changes to progression locks look a bit sus to older players

Not just a bit. It looks much sus.

Ok, so since are up for calm talks, I can say that with your last post you made your point and reasons more clear. Some stuff we probably can't agree on regardless, so I'll not go into that, cause no point - we'll be sticking to whatever opinion we have.

1 час назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

If you have difficulty with nullifiers using Valk+Hirudo cheese, you're doing something wrong.

 

1 час назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

I'll put some good faith goggles on for a moment and assume you haven't read the posts you're referring to.

Yes, I didn't, I mostly don't care about nullies anyways. But I'd like to reiterate yet again that "a**hole" section" is deliberately written in an "elitist" way to mimic how "high and mighty" people talk in forums arguments. Obviously I overblow things much and ignoring some stuff on purpose in those. You still seem to not get it and answer to those seriously. That proved to be effective in pulling some fair arguments out of you though :P

1 час назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

these methods are found across the star chart and regardless of planet or effort/time.

I don't have problems with all those methods mainly cause I don't see them to be held like a holy grail and repeatedly popping up in chat like Hydron does around 50 times per hour. People just get comfortable with doing nothing resulting in most cases in some real stupid mr20+ players who as I mentioned before somehow manage to die while playing Inaros. Then these members of "Cult of Hydron" continue to spread it further. All other places like the ones you mentioned, like onslaught needs to be figured out and do not have cult following - this is "work", to turn on the brain and curiosity for a bit. Ofc Hydron doesn't produce only brain dead players, that fully depends on the person doing fast leveling. I firmly hold the opinion that new players don't need fast leveling, they need to learn the game a bit. For me Hydron is a trigger word. Thus every time I see "Go to Hydron" in chat directed to like mr1 makes me want to grab something and smack the person answering that over the head.

1 час назад, Orrion_the_Kitsune сказал:

my question to you would be "have you seen them play?"

No, I didn't. It's just that in my experience in most cases such radical suggestion/topics/whatever come from entitled people who just hopped into warframe 2 hour ago and can't get something shiny or have skills of Polygon journalist playing Doom. Thus instant stigma of "oh boy, here we go again". 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Darth_Predator said:

Not just a bit. It looks much sus.

Ok, so since are up for calm talks, I can say that with your last post you made your point and reasons more clear. Some stuff we probably can't agree on regardless, so I'll not go into that, cause no point - we'll be sticking to whatever opinion we have.

 

Yes, I didn't, I mostly don't care about nullies anyways. But I'd like to reiterate yet again that "a**hole" section" is deliberately written in an "elitist" way to mimic how "high and mighty" people talk in forums arguments. Obviously I overblow things much and ignoring some stuff on purpose in those. You still seem to not get it and answer to those seriously. That proved to be effective in pulling some fair arguments out of you though :P

I don't have problems with all those methods mainly cause I don't see them to be held like a holy grail and repeatedly popping up in chat like Hydron does around 50 times per hour. People just get comfortable with doing nothing resulting in most cases in some real stupid mr20+ players who as I mentioned before somehow manage to die while playing Inaros. Then these members of "Cult of Hydron" continue to spread it further. All other places like the ones you mentioned, like onslaught needs to be figured out and do not have cult following - this is "work", to turn on the brain and curiosity for a bit. Ofc Hydron doesn't produce only brain dead players, that fully depends on the person doing fast leveling. I firmly hold the opinion that new players don't need fast leveling, they need to learn the game a bit. For me Hydron is a trigger word. Thus every time I see "Go to Hydron" in chat directed to like mr1 makes me want to grab something and smack the person answering that over the head.

No, I didn't. It's just that in my experience in most cases such radical suggestion/topics/whatever come from entitled people who just hopped into warframe 2 hour ago and can't get something shiny or have skills of Polygon journalist playing Doom. Thus instant stigma of "oh boy, here we go again". 

I appreciate the fact we won't be in complete agreement; discussing things regardless is totally worthwhile imo.

It's fair you didn't read the replies. It'd be questionable if you were required to. Either way, people do sometimes respond to arguments in that way and some of them will be using it as a sincere argument rather than a demonstration of how ridiculous the hyperbole is. “Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they're in good company" is the quote, and it's always proven itself to be true, so I respond as if it's genuine.

You know, your reasoning for despising Hydron is... well... I can relate. There, I said it. At least with SO and dark sector missions, there's variety that teaches you how to tank and/or DPS effectively. SO especially is good for this, as not only do you have to keep your DPS up to generate enough efficiency to proceed to the zones that are most affinity-efficient even as enemies get tougher, but it cycles through the 4 main factions of enemy types too and teaches you how to fight them. You also can't fail SO, which is a nice bonus for new players. You can't be ambushed by the Stalker while leveling either, which is a further boon to new players. SO's better than Hydron in basically every way except for the effort:return ratio, and that's only because you AFK in Hydron more than you don't.

Your experience is your experience. I can't say you're wrong, and I won't try. The reasoning for your response is perfectly understandable tbh, and you're (in my experience at least) pretty cool so I have nothing more to say on this matter. 

Edited by Orrion_the_Kitsune
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Warframe isn't really a game of skill, it's a game of endurance. It's an adventure, not a race. It's not about seeing how skilled we are (because by design Warframe is easy), but about seeing how far we are willing to go on this journey. If we can't handle the normal star chart, Lotus help us.  Plus WF is F2P so there are likely to be arbitrary walls to keep us playing the game, that stand in the way of more meaningful and rewarding content, just like any other F2P game. 

 

 

 

 

                                                                                                      

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3 hours ago, (XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

by design Warframe is easy

Is it? Or is it easy as a result of powercreep and DE bending backwards to cater to bad players and still make "hard" content beatable by people who doesn't wany to learn game mechanics and only wants to play while focusing on anything that isn't actually playing the game?

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7 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Is it? Or is it easy as a result of powercreep and DE bending backwards to cater to bad players and still make "hard" content beatable by people who doesn't wany to learn game mechanics and only wants to play while focusing on anything that isn't actually playing the game?

I'm going to play the reverse Uno card on you. What if DE's bending over backwards to create challenging content in a game not designed for it, for the people who want to pretend they're skilled and/or enjoy the dopamine hit they get from doing something awesome?

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32 minutes ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

I'm going to play the reverse Uno card on you. What if DE's bending over backwards to create challenging content in a game not designed for it, for the people who want to pretend they're skilled and/or enjoy the dopamine hit they get from doing something awesome?

That doesn't seem to be the case since any time they try implement a "challenging" mode -openly stating it as such- a small but loud amount of people who can't beat it complains until it either gets nerfed or powercreep gets pushed far enough to turn the challenging mode back into an easy one.

It happened before to nightmare missions, sorties, arbitrations, and recently to SP which feels like normal mode after the introduction of galvanized mods and primary/secondary arcanes and will most likely happen to whatever new "challenge mode" they throw at us in the future.

Edited by ----Legacy----
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

That doesn't seem to be the case since any time they try implement a "challenging" mode -openly stating it as such- a small but loud amount of people who can't beat it complains until it either gets nerfed or powercreep gets pushed far enough to turn the challenging mode back into an easy one.

It happened before to nightmare missions, sorties, arbitrations, and recently to SP which feels like normal mode after the introduction of galvanized mods and primary/secondary arcanes and will most likely happen to whatever new "challenge mode" they throw at us in the future.

I mean, powercreep has literally always been an issue when it comes to trivializing difficult content. Remember the old room-clearing spin-2-win slide crit builds? Most complaints I've found about Arb, Nightmare and even SP are centered around how they by necessity encourage samey builds and frames because, let's be honest, most of the difficulty found in any of the three is "more health, more damage." There are minor additions like the revive mechanics, modifiers and Acolytes but these are insufficient on their own to qualify as added difficulty and one of these (no reviving) encourages people to play tank frames over all else.

The closest thing to 'difficulty' we'll ever have was the old version of Warframe that was more akin to a cover shooter than anything else, but the problem with that is pretty simple: no-one played it. It simply wasn't fun enough to be worthwhile. Not only that, but returning to that dynamic would invalidate so many frames and alienate so many people who spent time and effort perfecting their favorites. There is no good solution to bring challenge to the game, from what I can see, and any attempts to have resulted in locking a portion of the playerbase out of it simply because their frames and/or builds are incompatible. These are the ones you see complaining.

Imo, if you want a challenge you can play Bloodborne or Dark Souls because they are designed from the bottom-up to be a fun, challenging experience. Warframe isn't. Warframe's designed to be a loot-'em-up hack-'n-slash hybrid MMO.

Edited by Orrion_the_Kitsune
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7 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

I mean, powercreep has literally always been an issue when it comes to trivializing difficult content.

It hasn't tbh. Back in 2013 warframe was legit harder than now and DE would even encourage competition with events that got actually harder. Granted, there have always been means to break the game's limits, however these weren't as easy to come across as they currently are and enemies weren't as soft either.

7 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Remember the old room-clearing spin-2-win slide crit builds?

How to forget, DE reoworked combo counters mostly because of that meta and even now it remains quite strong.

7 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Most complaints I've found about Arb, Nightmare and even SP are centered around how they by necessity encourage samey builds and frames because, let's be honest, most of the difficulty found in any of the three is "more health, more damage."

And as soon as DE adds an enemy that requires a snippet of precise aiming or moving around to be countered, the forums get on fire and DE bends over backwards to appease them.

 

7 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

The closest thing to 'difficulty' we'll ever have was the old version of Warframe that was more akin to a cover shooter than anything else, but the problem with that is pretty simple: no-one played it.

No one played it because practically nobody knew about it to begin with.

You sound as if back in the day warframe had been a game advertised everywhere over which different publishers were fighting over, but people didn't play it just for being a bad game. The truth is publishers rejected the concept and most people didn't even know about warframe, so DE had to rely on community support to fund their game and make it grow slowly.

There's a reason why you can see many old players from early warframe who would like to see the game get challenging and engaging content again, and you can be sure it isn't because "warframe has always been an easy game"

7 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

There is no good solution to bring challenge to the game,

For that to happen, the whole game would require a rebalance, but then it's a really loud part of the community that complains over balance changes, to which (surprise!) DE bends over backwards and holds the changes back or tones them down enough to keep the game as mindless as possible in order to appease them.

7 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Not only that, but returning to that dynamic would invalidate so many frames and alienate so many people who spent time and effort perfecting their favorites.

This is entirely moot since the current state of the game already invalidates many frames (like those built around taking control of enemy units) and weapons (precision weapons say hi!) While totally disregarding the time and effort spent by players who had them as favorites and perfected them.

7 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Imo, if you want a challenge you can play Bloodborne or Dark Souls because they are designed from the bottom-up to be a fun, challenging experience.

None of those games has warframe's parkour system, nor ninjas in space which sounds like a legit reason to play -and support- warframe instead. 

But following your own logic, you could go and play cookie clicker, which has been "designed from the bottom-up to be a fun chill mind numbing experience".

There's also plenty of dress up games out there if you want something "designed from the bottom-up to be a fun fashion experience".

7 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Warframe isn't. Warframe's designed to be a loot-'em-up hack-'n-slash hybrid MMO.

At this point it feels a lot more like just a glorified lever pulling game tbh.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

It hasn't tbh. Back in 2013 warframe was legit harder than now and DE would even encourage competition with events that got actually harder. Granted, there have always been means to break the game's limits, however these weren't as easy to come across as they currently are and enemies weren't as soft either.

How to forget, DE reoworked combo counters mostly because of that meta and even now it remains quite strong.

And as soon as DE adds an enemy that requires a snippet of precise aiming or moving around to be countered, the forums get on fire and DE bends over backwards to appease them.

 

No one played it because practically nobody knew about it to begin with.

You sound as if back in the day warframe had been a game advertised everywhere over which different publishers were fighting over, but people didn't play it just for being a bad game. The truth is publishers rejected the concept and most people didn't even know about warframe, so DE had to rely on community support to fund their game and make it grow slowly.

There's a reason why you can see many old players from early warframe who would like to see the game get challenging and engaging content again, and you can be sure it isn't because "warframe has always been an easy game"

For that to happen, the whole game would require a rebalance, but then it's a really loud part of the community that complains over balance changes, to which (surprise!) DE bends over backwards and holds the changes back or tones them down enough to keep the game as mindless as possible in order to appease them.

This is entirely moot since the current state of the game already invalidates many frames (like those built around taking control of enemy units) and weapons (precision weapons say hi!) While totally disregarding the time and effort spent by players who had them as favorites and perfected them.

None of those games has warframe's parkour system, nor ninjas in space which sounds like a legit reason to play -and support- warframe instead. 

But following your own logic, you could go and play cookie clicker, which has been "designed from the bottom-up to be a fun chill mind numbing experience".

There's also plenty of dress up games out there if you want something "designed from the bottom-up to be a fun fashion experience".

At this point it feels a lot more like just a glorified lever pulling game tbh.

Idk, I don't have a response. You're correct? No clue what else to say. Same as with Darth. Have a like, then.

I guess the idea of Warframe always being easy is flawed? I mean, my main (and only) complaint about precision units is that you can't melee them, but being able to would require DE to design something like MGR:R's Blade Mode, which I have doubts they're going to do at risk of being sued for copyright infringement. Otherwise, I think things like Eidolons, Thumpers, the Ropalolyst are pretty fun fights because they require precision instead of walking up to it and one-shotting it with Hysteria or an equivalent.

Edit: I do think the Blade Mode thing would be a great addition though. It could even be implemented and used for older content like Eidolons through combining it and aim-gliding! Too bad it'll probably never happen.

Edited by Orrion_the_Kitsune
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57 minutes ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

A R30 Excalibur can clear the chart in a short time and have the SE shop open to them, even if they cannot do any SP nodes.

At least that R30 excalibur would be able to choose SP alerts to play on his own, be carried through them, get essence, and use it on whatever he wants since he has already made enough to meet the criteria for it, which is more than what can be said about someone who doesn't meet the same criteria but has been getting taxi'd to SP nodes and complaining on the forums for having no access to the SP shop.

If something, DE should fix players who haven't unlocked SP being able to play in it when invited. Other missions like Sister and Lich showdown already block people without an active personal enemy so it shouldn't be hard for DE to apply a similar block to SP.

Edited by AbyssalWyrm
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Just now, AbyssalWyrm said:

At least that MR30 excalibur would be able to choose SP alerts to play on his own, be carried through them, get essence, and use it on whatever he wants since he has already made enough to meet the criteria for it, which is more than what can be said about someone who doesn't meet the same criteria but has been getting taxi'd to SP nodes and complaining on the forums for having no access to the SP shop.

If something, DE should fix players who haven't unlocked SP being able to play in it when invited. Other missions like Sister and Lich showdown already block people without an active personal enemy so it shouldn't be hard for DE to apply a similar block to SP.

That's exactly my point though: it is easy for DE, but yet they don't. That's why I'm under the impression the main purpose of the SE shop is easier availability of resources rather than to be, exclusively, a reward for people who play through SP (which even then includes people who do SP without it unlocked.) I mean, yes if they were to disable SP taxi then I'd have no objections because it serves as enough proof they have one, specific vision for what SP's supposed to be.

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5 minutes ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

That's exactly my point though: it is easy for DE, but yet they don't. That's why I'm under the impression the main purpose of the SE shop is easier availability of resources rather than to be, exclusively, a reward for people who play through SP (which even then includes people who do SP without it unlocked.) I mean, yes if they were to disable SP taxi then I'd have no objections because it serves as enough proof they have one, specific vision for what SP's supposed to be.

SP taxi may have been just an oversight and get fixed at some point (it might even have been sneaking under the radar until this thread started getting some traction. It wouldn't be the first time something like that happens anyways)

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2 minutes ago, AbyssalWyrm said:

SP taxi may have been just an oversight and get fixed at some point (it might even have been sneaking under the radar until this thread started getting some traction. It wouldn't be the first time something like that happens anyways)

Well, if that's the case and it ends up fixed then allowing people access to a shop they can't use won't serve any purpose. I'll have been wrong and been proven wrong by DE themselves, which is enough for me. Definitely, oversights like this have happened before.

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On 2021-08-17 at 1:09 AM, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

There's absolutely no chance a new player and/or one lacking gear will get to experience SP at all

That's... the whole point.

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Posted (edited)
On 2021-08-19 at 1:30 PM, Alpheus said:

That's... the whole point.

and I think that's why SP being unlocked from the off would be just fine. If people aren't good enough to warrant being taxi's repeatedly to SP, the shop will serve no purpose to them and will be completely ignored. If they are, however, allowing those players to access the shop would only be positive in it's effects. This is all assuming of course that it isn't an oversight, which I'm not so sure of now because this is the third person telling me it may not be intentional.

I would like to see Tenshin's reaction to a taxi.

Edited by Orrion_the_Kitsune
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None of this arguing that's been going on the past few pages changes the fact that people don't agree with the OP. If you want access to the SP shop, then finish the start chart to access SP. The entitlement being displayed has pushed me from "maybe" to "DE should definitely close the taxi loophole".

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1 hour ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

And I'm meant to take the advice of elitists seriously, am I? That isn't going to happen. They can stay mad I call them for their elitism.

Think of it like this.

"I spent a good amount hours or some money to progress through this content and then this newbie comes in and demands stuff that requires some reasonable hours or money to get FOR ZERO EFFORT?"

I mean you can call them elitist all you want. Don't be surprised when you play this game long enough, You will feel the same.

1 hour ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Ah yes, because the wiki totally doesn't detail the drop differences between the Stalker and the Shadow Stalker. 5.53% to 2.765%. Oh my mistake, it's... exactly a 50% difference. Incredible. I simplified the rounding to give myself a 0.01% margin of error, but then did the math with the exact numbers and it turned out to be 50% anyway. Once again, this just shows me that you spend more time browsing forums and getting mad at entitled kids than you do playing the game. These drop rates are taken directly from DE's drop tables too, so you have zero excuse for at the very least being so abstinent in doing your own research.

Now, you are attempting to avoid Birdframe's accusation here *facepalm*. You owned the items, why complain about the drop rates? Why not answer the allegation that you bought the items instead of getting it from Stalker Drops?

 

You know what, with those trickery, you will be a great politican! /s

 

You are taking your thread to Hell, once it falls there is no going back. My advice? Turn back now.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Think of it like this.

"I spent a good amount hours or some money to progress through this content and then this newbie comes in and demands stuff that requires some reasonable hours or money to get FOR ZERO EFFORT?"

I mean you can call them elitist all you want. Don't be surprised when you play this game long enough, You will feel the same.

Now, you are attempting to avoid Birdframe's accusation here *facepalm*. You owned the items, why complain about the drop rates? Why not answer the allegation that you bought the items instead of getting it from Stalker Drops?

 

You know what, with those trickery, you will be a great politican! /s

 

You are taking your thread to Hell, once it falls there is no going back. My advice? Turn back now.

 

 

Look again. I do not own the items, and I also haven't bought them. You'll notice that there's no little check in the upper-left of the Hate and Despair item box like there is for Dread. This is because I do not and have never owned said items. Their original accusation was that I was lying about the drop rates and my reasoning for holding off on the quest, as well as that I was lying about being unable to purchase the Stalker set. Turns out neither was a lie, and while the inability to purchase the Stalker set may be unintended, it's still the case that I cannot purchase it and have to farm the Stalker. Therefore, my reasoning for holding up on the quest is legitimate.

Elitist idiots already make this thread hellish. There's literally nothing more you, or any elitist like Birdframe, can do to make it worse than it already is. This thread isn't for you, after all, because you already have SP unlocked which might bias your view a little for obvious reasons: you, in having SP unlocked, don't get to see how SP taxi positively influences matchmaking and player interaction. Since I get to experience it first-hand, I get to see the benefits for myself.

Once again, if DE doesn't want people doing SP before they have the star chart cleared, I will accept their decision. If DE finds my arguments persuasive and opens the shop up to anyone, I will accept that too. If they don't change anything, I'll accept that too. None of that is this which is an elitist having an issue with a different opinion.

Edited by Orrion_the_Kitsune
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1 hour ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Look again. I do not own the items, and I also haven't bought them. You'll notice that there's no little check in the upper-left of the Hate and Despair item box like there is for Dread. This is because I do not and have never owned said items. Their original accusation was that I was lying about the drop rates and my reasoning for holding off on the quest, as well as that I was lying about being unable to purchase the Stalker set. Turns out neither was a lie, and while the inability to purchase the Stalker set may be unintended, it's still the case that I cannot purchase it and have to farm the Stalker. Therefore, my reasoning for holding up on the quest is legitimate.

You do know you can just mail Warframe Support to solve that issue right?

 

1 hour ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Elitist idiots already make this thread hellish. There's literally nothing more you, or any elitist like Birdframe, can do to make it worse than it already is. This thread isn't for you, after all, because you already have SP unlocked which might bias your view a little for obvious reasons: you, in having SP unlocked, don't get to see how SP taxi positively influences matchmaking and player interaction. Since I get to experience it first-hand, I get to see the benefits for myself.

While that may be true, Steel Path is not a place for a newbie. It's designed to be a "late game" content. There is nothing we can do to change it. In my opinion, DE should just AXE player taxi FOR GOOD. It makes new players confused and gets them to places where there are not ready because of their inferior gear or lack of understanding. Side effect of player taxi is we get new players for example you demanding to get access to stuff that you clearly do not know that you have not meet the requirements, in short you will get that sense of FOMO. 

Now instead of just arguing with random people of the internet that clearly disagree with you no matter what which is a waste of time why don't you just divert the time playing the game and actually progress? You will unlock that shop in no time.

Another advice, If you see a discussion going nowhere.. just walk out. Sometimes discussions don't reach an agreement and just saying "let's agree to disagree" is better than just wasting your time continuing it. If another "people who disagreed" comes in, just don't reply. You will just enter another endless cycle.

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

You do know you can just mail Warframe Support to solve that issue right?

 

While that may be true, Steel Path is not a place for a newbie. It's designed to be a "late game" content. There is nothing we can do to change it. In my opinion, DE should just AXE player taxi FOR GOOD. It makes new players confused and gets them to places where there are not ready because of their inferior gear or lack of understanding. Side effect of player taxi is we get new players for example you demanding to get access to stuff that you clearly do not know that you have not meet the requirements, in short you will get that sense of FOMO. 

Now instead of just arguing with random people of the internet that clearly disagree with you no matter what which is a waste of time why don't you just divert the time playing the game and actually progress? You will unlock that shop in no time.

Another advice, If you see a discussion going nowhere.. just walk out. Sometimes discussions don't reach an agreement and just saying "let's agree to disagree" is better than just wasting your time continuing it. If another "people who disagreed" comes in, just don't reply. You will just enter another endless cycle.

You know, opening a support ticket about it is probably a good idea.

If DE decides to permanently ax SP taxi, I'm not going to complain because they've at least acknowledged it and decided it to be too problematic. I'm not new, however, which is why I know about SP taxi as well as a lot of other things I shouldn't such as what effect completing The Second Dream has on my favorite loot box dressed as a  frame. I also know about... say... arbitration, which I have not unlocked yet. I'm certainly not new by any means.

Well, the main reason I don't want to progress is, as I've said, the halved drop rates for the two weapons I want. The Stalker already spawns anytime I don't want him to and never when I do, so having a further halved drop rate on a 2% spawn means I have a 0.05% chance to get what I want from him per 5 minute mission as opposed to a 0.1% chance which, while still tiny, is way better. I'll hold off until I get a response to my ticket, and if it's a favorable response I'll progress unimpeded.

I mean, your advice is good. There's nothing I can disagree with here.

Edited by Orrion_the_Kitsune
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I have a counter-proposal. 

Let's not allow people who haven't unlocked SP to have access to SP. 

You are supposed to complete the solar map to access that, and you haven't completed it. 

It isn't hard to do. Unlock the SP, and you will be allowed to spend your ill gotten Steel Essence. It should remain locked, imo, or it defeats the entire purpose of SP being locked behind completing the map to begin with... 

You have a right to choose not to complete a specific quest required to complete the map if you choose... but that comes with consequences, such as not being able to spend your Steel Essence. If you really feel you have some bug or other progession stopper messing with things, you could talk to support, but you can't expect access to parts of the game you are unwilling to unlock. 

If you are not a new player you should very well understand this. Choosing not to unlock certain sections of the game, no matter how well thought out your reasoning for it is, is going to have consequences. 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I have a counter-proposal. 

Let's not allow people who haven't unlocked SP to have access to SP. 

You are supposed to complete the solar map to access that, and you haven't completed it. 

It isn't hard to do. Unlock the SP, and you will be allowed to spend your ill gotten Steel Essence. It should remain locked, imo, or it defeats the entire purpose of SP being locked behind completing the map to begin with... 

You have a right to choose not to complete a specific quest required to complete the map if you choose... but that comes with consequences, such as not being able to spend your Steel Essence. If you really feel you have some bug or other progession stopper messing with things, you could talk to support, but you can't expect access to parts of the game you are unwilling to unlock. 

If you are not a new player you should very well understand this. Choosing not to unlock certain sections of the game, no matter how well thought out your reasoning for it is, is going to have consequences. 

Your counter-proposal is shared by a number of people, but mine is based on the idea that SP taxi is intentional. If it's not, then that's that and it should be fixed. If it is intentional, however, then opening the SE shop to everyone does no harm. But only if it's intentional. Either way, my proposal is mainly because you already gain SE and the only consequence is that you're not able to spend it. SP's still incredibly useful for farming resources and affinity. If you didn't gain SE at all from SP unless you have SP unlocked, there would be no point in opening the shop. If SP taxi was axed then that goes double.

Either way, I'm aware I'm locked out of certain sections of the game until I allow myself to progress. I'm not that concerned about it. I can't access Op. form (and everything it unlocks), I can't access La-Z Hydron, I can't access the Kuva Fortress, the list of things I can't access is quite long and I'm okay with that. If being unable to access SP was a logical consequence of the refusal to progress, I'd be fine with that but atm you can - for some reason - acquire SE and it sits there, taking up space, until Tenshin arbitrarily decides to sell you things in return for a currency you already own and effort you've already put in that it's supposed to represent. That's where my complaint is. It's not like this for Nightwave, nor kuva (though it's harder to acquire before you do The Second Dream) which are the two closest comparisons: you can spend currency for both right from the off, even if the method of earning the currency is more difficult than it would normally be.

Edited by Orrion_the_Kitsune
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