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Armor reduction below 100% is VERY unsatisfying and has remained so for YEARS with NO changes.


ProperMotions
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I will try to keep this explernation as simple as possible, so here are some low quality memes I made describing what it's like to reduce armor with below 100% reduction. And what it acutally should be like.

  • WHAT VISUAL INDICATION IS CURRENTLY LIKE:


4WkwNeK.jpg

 

  • WHAT VISIUAL INDICATION SHOULD BE LIKE:


jyUWtM9.jpg

 

I mean for real, HOW has this been ignored since 2013? really now.... It is really dumb and it makes defense reduction feel unsatisfying against armor, even despite the fact that we KNOW for sure it works. but that really doesn't matter if it doesn't FEEL like it works too.

 

I just don't get it, is this hard to implement? Or has just nobody complained until now? lol. I am not asking for a rework, I am not asking for big changes to the armor systems, I am not asking for an ability change. All I want is a visual indication that shows that my my armor reduction actually did something even if it isn't a 100% reduction.

Edited by ProperMotions
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I like it better as it is tbh, that sliver of armour will be hard to notice especially if you're doing 90-99% strip, where as if the HP bar is yellow you know the armour is still there and you can get your damage bonus. It is important if you have different elements on your weapons for different enemies / weaknesses.

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Are you suggesting actually changing the way armor reduction works, or just a visual change?

For a complete mechanic change... Yeah it's pretty unlikely to happen.

If it's just visual, it would be an inaccurate representation of what's happening. If I saw unarmored health followed by armored health, I'd assume that they would function as separate health bars, just like shields. But 100% of the health is armored, it's just some of the armor from each individual point of health is reduced.

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i'm not sure how we would visually convey it in a logical manner(that still adheres to the rules of the game), but yes it would be nice if it visually conveyed in some fashion.

Edited by taiiat
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11 minutes ago, Infirito said:

I like it better as it is tbh, that sliver of armour will be hard to notice especially if you're doing 90-99% strip, where as if the HP bar is yellow you know the armour is still there and you can get your damage bonus. It is important if you have different elements on your weapons for different enemies / weaknesses.

 I am only refering to visual indication of armor reduction, nothing else.

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2 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

I mean the entire health bar changing color in a gradient based on %

This is a possible solution too, either way ANYTHING is better than literally ZERO visual changes on the healthbar when reducing enemy armor.

Edited by ProperMotions
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22 minutes ago, Infirito said:

I like it better as it is tbh, that sliver of armour will be hard to notice especially if you're doing 90-99% strip, where as if the HP bar is yellow you know the armour is still there and you can get your damage bonus. It is important if you have different elements on your weapons for different enemies / weaknesses.

This really don't makes sense to me at all. Did you just not look at the last picture or what?

Futhermore, this is only about visual indication. And nothing else.

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12 minutes ago, ProperMotions said:

This really don't makes sense to me at all. Did you just not look at the last picture or what?

Did you not read the post before commenting? sliver of armour will be hard to notice especially if you're doing 90-99% strip

As for your problem, just stick a debuff marker on an enemy with a number, like a status proc.

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27 minutes ago, ProperMotions said:

This really don't makes sense to me at all. Did you just not look at the last picture or what?

Futhermore, this is only about visual indication. And nothing else.

What I think he means is there needs to be a clear indication with the difference between very low armour and no armour. The importance of this is very obvious against Eidolons.

An Eidolon with no armour take 25% bonus damage from radiation, while an Eidolon with armour takes 75% bonus damage from radiation. Thus there's a point where an armoured enemy takes more damage than an unarmoured enemy. You want to bring the armour as low as possible without getting completely rid of it. Correct me if I'm wrong on this. @Infirito

Edited by Liljeman
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15 minutes ago, Infirito said:

 sliver of armour will be hard to notice especially if you're doing 90-99% strip

This is invalidated by the fact that this already happens ingame with shields anyway.

As a matter of fact it happens in reverse with augmented shields already, where the red HP bar becomes barely visible.

If this is already happening anyway with shields then why would be it a problem if it were to happen with armor reduction too????

Your responses more so comes off as "Oh just put X and Y in your build and it works fine"

 

This isn't about a builds at all, it is only about converying infomation to the player. And making it feel more satisfying to use armor reduction tools (Mods, abiltiies, status effects)

Edited by ProperMotions
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12 minutes ago, Liljeman said:

an Eidolon with armour takes 75% bonus damage from radiation. Thus there's a point where an armoured enemy takes more damage than an unarmoured enemy. You want to bring the armour as low as possible

While I did not specifically think about Eidolons, you are correct. The current major issue with armor has literally been around since 2013. Which is that there is NO visual indication on weither or not you armor reduction tools (Mods, Abilties, status effect,) actually did anything to your target. UNLESS it removes 100% armor. (ie. the healthbar turns from yellow to red)

However if ANY of your tools only reduces armor by 75% then literally the only way for you to know if it worked right now is to just damage the target and remember how much damage that was compared to before you did your armor reduction on the target.

Really this is not about crunching numbers at all, it is only about visual infomation on the screen.

Edited by ProperMotions
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I agree it would be good to have an indicator for armour reduction, I like the cracked health from the examples the most so far as it would be easy to convey the difference between very low armour and no armour to quite high precision.

Edited by Liljeman
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whatever sort of visual indication just needs to be robust enough that it can express how much of the Armor has been reduced, while also not implying to the viewer that the Health is not protected by Armor when it still is.
an Icon next to the Health Bar could be serviceable, as long as it has an integer value to represent either how much the Armor has been weakened by or how much remains.

 

2 hours ago, Liljeman said:

An Eidolon with no armour take 25% bonus damage from radiation, while an Eidolon with armour takes 75% bonus damage from radiation. 

(an Eidolon with Armor takes 118.75% Bonus Damage from Radiation, actually)

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1 hour ago, Liljeman said:

Thx for crunching the numbers. What's the formula? Eidolon with 100% armour at normal level?

you just didn't account for both the Bonus to Health and Armor (and since you ignored the reduction by Armor for simplicity, so did i).

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