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So are blueprints cannon?  If so that would imply that we are kidnapping some random person to feed to helminth to create a frame, and on top of that if we grab a strong willed enough person to turn into a frame they could rebel and go autonomous like umbral did...

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I'd imagine that the FIRST were people inoculated with the Infestation Helminth Strain...

and the BP just allows Ordis to use OUR Helminth (from the room downstairs) to recreate the resulting Infested tissue that the ORIGINALS would've looked like AFTER complete transformation into Warframe.

So we're recreating the final product from a perfect Helminth strain, not the original hosts.. just what was left.  

if... that makes sense.

Like how modern day scientists can, and DO, grow entire organs from a petri dish culture with help from machines and such.  Basically bio-organic 3D printers.

Edited by (PSN)JustJoshinEnt
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With a game that even its developer not sure where they're going, it's probably best if you don't think about it too much.

It's not a secret that DE just riding the wave and see where things go as their main approach. If they can even forget about a main mechanic when they introduce new mechanics, trust me they will absolutely forget about some canon two lines backstory that one of them wrote years ago.

Lore is absolutely the worst part of warframe to be invested in.

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23 minutes ago, LillyRaccune said:

That is all up to your imagination.

 

"We took our greatest, volunteers or not, and polluted them with these cultured reagents. They transformed. They became Infested..."

nf7v0Qe.gif

Uh oh, my imagination is twisted from living in the gutter its entire life...

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2 hours ago, Cypher77Burn said:

So are blueprints cannon?  If so that would imply that we are kidnapping some random person to feed to helminth to create a frame, and on top of that if we grab a strong willed enough person to turn into a frame they could rebel and go autonomous like umbral did...

Ah, good point, but I would say that no, we're following a blueprint from the time when it was already all done, so all we need is the biomass and parts that were put in. It's why all of the blueprints involve some Infested parts and some technological ones.

We're recreating the model with the equivalent of a 3D printer, not making a brand new Warframe every time. That's why the Helminth exists in our ship; to provide the main biomass for building and repairing Warframes.

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3 hours ago, Cypher77Burn said:

So are blueprints cannon?  If so that would imply that we are kidnapping some random person to feed to helminth to create a frame, 

No need to sacrifice anyone. Crafting a frame is cloning. 

Edit: or as another poster said, just 3D printing, bit with meat and metal instead of plastic

Edited by TARINunit9
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as others have said, Helminth basically provides all the bio-material needed for warframes so that no human sacrifice is needed.

but if it ever was needed, I'll round up some ventkids and use those; they're small, so I'd need twice as many, but making the Vents of Fortuna a quieter and better place would be worth it.

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14 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

but if it ever was needed, I'll round up some ventkids and use those; they're small, so I'd need twice as many, but making the Vents of Fortuna a quieter and better place would be worth it.

black and white cat GIF

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8 hours ago, Cypher77Burn said:

So are blueprints cannon?  If so that would imply that we are kidnapping some random person to feed to helminth to create a frame, and on top of that if we grab a strong willed enough person to turn into a frame they could rebel and go autonomous like umbral did...

1. Blueprints are indeed canon, as they are mentioned in main story quests.

2. No, we're not kidnapping people.  Look at the ingredients on the blueprints and you will not see "person" on the list.

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7 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

1. Blueprints are indeed canon, as they are mentioned in main story quests.

2. No, we're not kidnapping people.  Look at the ingredients on the blueprints and you will not see "person" on the list.

It is on the secret ingredients list, soilent frame is people!?!

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Think about it this way. Our Umbra clearly has the memory of THE Umbra as created by Ballas, not someone else's, otherwise the quest makes no sense. Yet he's made in the foundry, just like other frames (except for the timer) and again, neither our character, nor Ordis notice anything unusual initially.

 

It's definitely a copy/re-creation, and that's likely how warframes were always made after the "prototype" was created by infesting a human.

Edited by nebfab
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The thing that has always confused me more is why some blueprints are reusable and some are not (lore-wise) I understand why it is the way it is in terms of game mechanics. 

Most of the explanations I can think of involve non-reusable blueprints being more like a damaged item you are restoring, but if so you'd think they would just call them damaged items. And it makes even less sense since you have specifically damaged parts sometimes that are some of the required pieces for a blueprint. 

Like... the way we think of Blueprints in real life, they aren't just something that disappears once you consult them to design/make/build something... 

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14 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

The thing that has always confused me more is why some blueprints are reusable and some are not

Honestly it's probably just a "poor" word choice on the part of the developers.  They could have used a different word that more accurately depicted some aspect of construction that was used up during the construction process, but it probably wouldn't have been as recognizable to players.  That's why I use quotes around the word "poor", because while it is a bit of an inaccurate word to use, people and players are largely familiar with the concept of blueprints and the idea that there's a difference between the blueprints for a thing and actually having the thing.  If they had used another word (and I'm not even familiar enough with construction to guess what this word might be) I would hazard there would be more confusion.  So honestly, I think DE made the right choice here in making a more accessible choice.

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23 hours ago, nebfab said:

Think about it this way. Our Umbra clearly has the memory of THE Umbra as created by Ballas, not someone else's, otherwise the quest makes no sense. Yet he's made in the foundry, just like other frames (except for the timer) and again, neither our character, nor Ordis notice anything unusual initially.

 

It's definitely a copy/re-creation, and that's likely how warframes were always made after the "prototype" was created by infesting a human.

I assumed umbral was an individual tenno's experience, rather like the battle with the queens(and from there I figured the tenno involved in that helped teach the others what they where capable of and etc etc).

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5 minutes ago, Cypher77Burn said:

I assumed umbral was an individual tenno's experience, rather like the battle with the queens(and from there I figured the tenno involved in that helped teach the others what they where capable of and etc etc).

Yes, but my point was that we didn't find him intact, he was build from resources, much like any other frame. There's no indication he continuously existed all those years. Yet he still has those memories, despite being brand new. The only way this works is if the foundry re-built/copied the original, not repeated the whole process of infesting a human host.

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9 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Honestly it's probably just a "poor" word choice on the part of the developers.  They could have used a different word that more accurately depicted some aspect of construction that was used up during the construction process, but it probably wouldn't have been as recognizable to players.  That's why I use quotes around the word "poor", because while it is a bit of an inaccurate word to use, people and players are largely familiar with the concept of blueprints and the idea that there's a difference between the blueprints for a thing and actually having the thing.  If they had used another word (and I'm not even familiar enough with construction to guess what this word might be) I would hazard there would be more confusion.  So honestly, I think DE made the right choice here in making a more accessible choice.

Yeah you make a lot of good points there. 

I guess its just one of those things where when thinking about it lore-wise it is best to just not worry about it too much. 

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On 2021-08-19 at 8:50 AM, Cypher77Burn said:

So are blueprints cannon?  If so that would imply that we are kidnapping some random person to feed to helminth to create a frame, and on top of that if we grab a strong willed enough person to turn into a frame they could rebel and go autonomous like umbral did...

That only applies to the first and those are gone gone gone. We mostly use knock offs of primes or knock offs of knock offs. A few exceptions being things like Titania, where the actual story indicates we get a blueprint based on the very first version of her.

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Yes, we kill innocent people to create our Warframes, but what would you expect from monsters like us?

We killed our parent's, we stole children for the Orokin to use in Continuity, and then we committed Genocide on the Orokin, man, woman and child.

Their blood covers us body and soul.

We use our minds to control twisted, infested weaponised humans. 

Umbra has a soul, but who says that the others don't? Maybe it's just buried deep enough that they have no control and all they can do is scream silently into the darkness and pain.

People who don't have the stomach for it will say this isn't so, but they're just ignoring the truth.

Honestly though, the lore in Warfame is as light or dark as you want it to be, because it feels like DE gave up on the lore a long time ago. Most of what's said is head cannon with the most popular ideas taking hold. 

It's equally as viable to say that Warframes are made out of Fairy Dust and Pixie farts.

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8 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

Yes, we kill innocent people to create our Warframes, but what would you expect from monsters like us?

We killed our parent's, we stole children for the Orokin to use in Continuity, and then we committed Genocide on the Orokin, man, woman and child.

Their blood covers us body and soul.

We use our minds to control twisted, infested weaponised humans. 

Umbra has a soul, but who says that the others don't? Maybe it's just buried deep enough that they have no control and all they can do is scream silently into the darkness and pain.

People who don't have the stomach for it will say this isn't so, but they're just ignoring the truth.

Honestly though, the lore in Warfame is as light or dark as you want it to be, because it feels like DE gave up on the lore a long time ago. Most of what's said is head cannon with the most popular ideas taking hold. 

It's equally as viable to say that Warframes are made out of Fairy Dust and Pixie farts.

That brings up the question of what exactly happened with our collective parents?  We did become monsters of sorts from some perspectives, and our accounts and probably orokin thoughts on the videos are the only accounts of what happened, as such the parents could have been normal and we where the monsters who went crazy. 

Fairy dust is probably a fairly violent thing to collect and pixie farts involves captive pixies.

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11 hours ago, Cypher77Burn said:

That brings up the question of what exactly happened with our collective parents?  We did become monsters of sorts from some perspectives, and our accounts and probably orokin thoughts on the videos are the only accounts of what happened, as such the parents could have been normal and we where the monsters who went crazy. 

Fairy dust is probably a fairly violent thing to collect and pixie farts involves captive pixies.

This is covered in The War Within.

"The biomes had been sabotaged", "The food stocks dwindled", "Hunting parties roamed the ship" says The Worm Queen.

Why do you think hunting parties were roaming the ship? What do you think they were hunting?

Fresh meat of course.

That's why no trace of the adults is mentioned, that's why all the evidence of the Zariman was destroyed by the Orokin, because of what the Tenno did on that ship.

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6 minutes ago, Fl_3 said:

That's why no trace of the adults is mentioned, that's why all the evidence of the Zariman was destroyed by the Orokin, because of what the Tenno did on that ship.

The tenno didnt do anything. The parents/adults went crazy from the void exposure and killed eachother. It becomes pretty clear when you do the Chains of Harrow quest. It is the classic void/abyss/warp corruption tale/idea, with the twist that the kids get super powered instead of consumed like the rest.

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4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The tenno didnt do anything. The parents/adults went crazy from the void exposure and killed eachother. It becomes pretty clear when you do the Chains of Harrow quest. It is the classic void/abyss/warp corruption tale/idea, with the twist that the kids get super powered instead of consumed like the rest.

and this leads to another question about void corruption, i have seen it referenced in two ways.  One the corrupted in the void tileset that are corrupted by orokin tower defenses meaning it is an orokin controlled infection or something of the sort, and the other is as you just said and perhaps something like what's his name with the Janus key that seems to imply a corruption by the void yet it somehow turns out just like the orokin ship automated defense corruption.  So the question being what is the difference between the two?

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