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Yareli Movement & Stat Changes!


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il y a une heure, Jarriaga a dit :

Because DE don't to create another World on Fire situation in which enemies die in a wide area by you merely walking by.

Then they should stop making this kind of abilities.
They need to know that "preventing ennemies from coming into melee range" in warframe is completely bs, nothing comes in melee range since it gets nuked from a random AoE right outside it's spawn area.
WoF worked because it was designed with range, aquablades without range are trash and can't even be replaced since Helminth don't work with K-drive.
Range is goind to be added, we'll see how it turns out, damage scales with viral since it's slash, but since it can't touch ragdolled ennemies, you can't make a grinder with her 4, it removes a big synergy potential.
If it's not enough, then it needs to be redone, but it'll only be like that if they have the time to do so (I think not)
But WoF like abilities can't work without range, it's a waste of a slot.

As for the Dash, it's nice but useless at the same time, it looks like it goes far, inside tiny tilesets it'll create collisions bugs.
Plus, speed and evasion is not what K-drives need, they need to have a better turn radius when they move, right now it's a pain to turn when you have speed, it seems like you're driving a #*!%ing truck.

Edited by Maryph
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hace 2 horas, Taiepii dijo:

Seeing you guy working to give some change is nice. 

But honestly, that still not enough to make the frame interesting.

Imo she's already interesting, what she lacks is viability, and these changes will certainly help, specially the Merulina dash

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synergizingIs nice that you are making changes to Yareli, but i don't think it is enough to make the frame good or at least interesting. Is there a way that we can add actual synergy between her abilities? For example, Nidus kit is basically the paramount of all abilities having a reason and synergizing with each other, Yareli's kit right now feels like all her abilities are there but they don't have any synergy.

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27 minutes ago, Lus4812 said:

If aquablades still just do damage at the blade part this change wont do anything riptide will still do no damage just in a larger area and sea snares are ok... I guess. For me her kit is still bad but to those who like her more power to you.

This cannot be emphasized enough. It is not the only issue with Aquablades but we'll have to see whether or not the blades are increased in size or the radius is increased in size.

If the blades are increased 25% it will eliminate the dead zone issue (inside of the circle that does no damage) while also hitting more enemies. Though 50% damage increase is pointless when DE STILL FAILS TO FIX THE DISPARITY BETWEEN THE ENEMY FACTIONS. ARMOR = DAMAGE REDUCTION IS A REALLY ASININE FUNCTION IN THE GAME AND NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED BEFORE THE GAME CAN BE ADEQUATELY BALANCED ACROSS ALL FACTIONS.

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I'm excited for mobility improvements for Merulina, but I'm still concerned about a general lack of scaling, utility, and synergy.  I will hold off on judging her until I play her with these changes (and probably invest another forma or two).  But what I'm seeing right now isn't enough to make her viable beyond star chart.

 

Her 1 is still going to get stuck on walls and fizzle out uselessly.

Her 2 is still a K Drive on interior tilesets.  Try it on Corpus Ice crashed freighter, or infested Corpus ship.

Her 3 still doesn't scale or offer utility beyond a brief stagger.

Her 4 still doesn't scale past scooping up a certain amount of enemies, and will still spread enemies out, making them harder to kill.

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These changes are nice but still very much band-aids on an open wound, they don't address how her damage reduction falls off a cliff in usability into late game or the lack of meaningful synergy in her kit. The improvement in Merulina's movement is going to be very welcome as far as muscle memory is concerned, but if we're still going to be constantly knocked off, it won't amount to much.

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Well, these tweaks won't change anything and haven't touched on the main problems with her kit. The only good thing is Merulika having more maneuverability, assuming people haven't already replaced it with something more useful.

Good start though, we'll need around ten more tweaks like these and Yareli will be semi-decent. Right now I still wouldn't touch her even with a seven-foot-long pole, but I hope those who enjoy her will still have their fun.

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These are a step in the right direction - or should I say a Dash in the right direction? - but I can't help but think the more nuanced issues that need helping are what're being ignored

Her Snares fundamentally aren't super worthwhile, requiring multiple casts to get a full effect, lackluster damage, and still struggle with getting caught on terrain. Now if you could say, Hold and release her 1 to release ALL the bubbles and if those bubbles had a synergy with making enemies take more damage from her 3 and 4, or rather just making enemies take more damage in general, that would be an excellent use case.

Merulina is solid but it'd be nice if we could mod Merulinae - there's a whole range of K-Drive mods we can't use that could really make things interesting.

Her Blades are great, no complaints there.

Her 4 is cool'n'all buuuut its main failing is the utility. When that damage falls off there's the issue of enemies get scattered when it explodes and that is not what folks want a majority of the time. What if you could hold the cast key to create a longer lasting riptide to suck enemies into one spot for a duration and then detonate it with another push of the button? And maybe reduce how far out it launches enemies because this exact issue of enemies getting flung all over the place is the issue people have with Hydroid and Zephyr's pre-reworked 4's

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29 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

It already has scaling damage

it has scaling damage based on how many enemies are in it but thats not what scaling means in this context, it means scaling based on enemy level. i can see them not wanting to do it because if theres different levels it would bug the game but i think just having it base on the highest would make it not a problem

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1 minute ago, Majicarp said:

it has scaling damage based on how many enemies are in it but thats not what scaling means in this context, it means scaling based on enemy level. i can see them not wanting to do it because if theres different levels it would bug the game but i think just having it base on the highest would make it not a problem

I agree. But I doubt DE understands what you're saying. I'm sure to them "more enemies means more damage. That's what everyone is talking about, right?" They consistently gloss over general discussions of scaling when it is done really well for some frames and really poorly on others. 

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The board dodging is great.

Stat buffs are welcome but don't do much to solve her problems. There's very little room to tweak her power values for good alternate builds. Merulina takes damage in a bizarre way and ignores her mods/arcanes besides power strength so there's no room at all for clever modding. Riptide is too weak to kill (not that we need another boring simple nuke) and the detection is too odd to effectively grab enemies (must have line of sight from the floor, so small objects block it). Aqua Blades is most effective when idling next to an enemy and that doesn't fit Yareli or most of Warframe. Sea Snares doesn't want to attempt to attack any units that it's not allowed to pick up. A multiplicative crit chance passive rules out any options that don't already have decent crit chance, which is already a divided pool since it can only apply to secondaries. There's also no synergy between the powers, as everyone's noted.

Aqua Blades attacking more rapidly based on the player's speed would be cool for Yareli and the helminth potential on many other frames, and it would remove the inclination to idle if you want it to kill. Sea Snares could drag enemies into Riptide if Riptide lasted for a duration after cast. It could keep it's initial high pull range and then have modest pull for the rest of the duration, you could use 1 to feed it, and then once it's packed you could rush through it with rapid Aqua Blades for the finishing touch.

All that, and of course, we want to mod Merulina. We finally get to let k-drives shine in a place where flight can't overshadow it, but it's so basic that we struggle to justify using it. It doesn't have enough utility to use it for a real benefit, especially since it still gets stuck on older more cramped tiles and falls through gaps in new ones. Using a basic k-drive like this is a self-imposed challenge to see if you can keep up with people who are on foot. We want it to be good and fun enough on it's own, not merely tolerating it because this one provides an extra health bar.

Edited by Pfysicyst
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Just to sum up what I was expecting/hoping for with this.

- Sea snares adds vulnerability or can pass through walls.

- Merulina scales health with damage taken for short window (post below me has a better idea.  Just remove health. It's only 75% DR anyway.)

- Riptide now lasts a longer duration (~10 sec). pulls enemies effected by sea snares from any range. after duration all enemies are gathered at bottom of ability location. 

I get nothing I want will get put on aqua blades so I won't bother with that one. 

Edited by (XBOX)Big Roy 324
merulina line edited
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None of these are going to change anything.

34 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Yareli Stat Changes:
We’ve made some Stat changes to Yareli’s abilities as well. These are buffs across the board, and details are as follows: 

Sea Snares:
-Increase seek speed by about 60% and slightly increase bubble visibility to better register your casts. 

The problem with SS is that it tracks through walls, and is wasted if it hits a wall. 

Aquablades:
-Increase range by just about 25%
-Increase damage and duration by 50%

Any halfway decent melee will still completely outclass it.

RipTide:
Bigger is better. The bigger we Rip, the more enemies, the better scaling, and so on!
-Increase radius by 25%

This throws enemies around. You do not want to break up clumps. If it was called Geyser, sure, but Riptide should pull enemies under it into a cluster.

I'm gonna try and be as concise about this as possible. People say "she's fine because I can do SP Mot with her". Thing is, weapons and mods can let any frame do that. That's the problem with Yareli. Her abilities don't add anything to the gameplay experience.

Her 1 needs to track around/ not instantly be wasted when it collides with a wall, otherwise it's throwing energy down a hole for a sub par effect to begin with.

Merulina shouldn't have a HP bar. She's a giant target as is, and no other K Drives have health. Being able to use primaries is another simple change that would help.

Aquablades is going to be sub par compared to melee regardless. Adding a debuff would do more than an inconsequential damage buff.

Adding any of the pull mechanics to Undertow so it's actually an undertow and not a geyser would be nice as well.

Just to reiterate what I said in a previous post; Ash gives you invis, armor strip and boosted slash procs, all of which dovetail nicely with a melee build. Mag is the queen of everything shield related and brings team wide support as well as having fun synergies with projectile weapons. Yareli has you realizing that using your abilities are mostly a waste of energy. That's her problem. She's a frame that's outclassed by the weapons you put on her, and her abilities don't add to gameplay beyond a few minutes of "let's see how a k-drive works in a regular mission." All the suggestions above are easy to implement other than the tracking on her 1. Remove Merulina's HP pool, let us use primaries on her, add a slow or proc to aquablades, replace the toss on her 4 with a pull from Magus Anomaly, Exodia Hunt, Airburst etc. Because these number tweaks aren't going to change anything.

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at least it's something, better than nothing, though you have not addressed the fact that her 4 doesn't scale because ARMOUR mitigates over 90% of its damage
this could EXTREMELY easily fixed by making sea snares strip armour, preferably via exploding when pulled stripping armour in AoE

merulina changes are okay, i still don't understand why you pushed merulina as her sole means for survivability, instead of using some of the several existing mechanics used in k-drive attack style mods that can make it more of a damage power used in short bursts, with her 3 taking up the role of damage resistance

example of what i mean here is in the slay board k-drive mod, have dismounting merulina slayboard it forward and explode when contacting an enemy/wall, doing increased damage based on the trick meter, this inherently has direct synergy with riptide since unlike anything else you can dismount merulina mid riptide cast which would be a fantastic synergy
group enemies together then throw merulina at them for more damage, i do think having merulina be yareli's only form of survivability as a squishy frame, while also being an unreliable janky mobility tool that limits weapon use while also being limited to 75% damage resistance unlike literally every other DR power is rather misguided

i don't understand why you keep buffing the damage of aquablades, you've more than doubled its damage at this point, for a power that can barely be called damage focused power, in practical use it does light damage but realistically only serves to stunlock enemies in melee range to stop them constantly shoving her off merulina every .01s because of all the CC enemies have, it's damage NOT INCLUDING its armour ignoring slash procs is near tripple that of a lot of frames abilities perfect example here is hydroid, have you even looked at his base damage recently, his uncharged tempest barage does 150!???! base damage with no damage scaling, no damage ramping, low and fixed range,  this isn't even looking at the rest of his kit.

fundamentally i do understand that you do not wish to allow aquablades range to be modded but it makes far more sense to all in the ability as her defensive tool, because if it doesn't outright oneshot enemies at high level who cares when gara can because its low range must be backed up by damage OR utility also FYI in case you've forgotten, splinter storm can one shot enemies while scaling with range, damage scales off equipped melee weapons, can stack damage infinitely, can be cast on allies or enemies, while also providing 90% damage resistance out of the gate, comparing here because its a "similar-ish" style ability *albeit i do personally find gara's kit to be annoying to use properly*

riptide change is fine, not really fixing its true scaling issue because its armour mitigating over 90% of its damage that's the real issue hence the synergy suggestion above, alongside its excessively long cast animation that you cant move in without merulina that ragdolls enemies all over the place

and lastly.... please for the love of god, make her passive add 25% FLAT crit chance for 2s after moving for 2s stacking twice, because right now its annoying to maintain and is is BLATANTLY bias towards using crit secondaries, but her SIGNITURE secondary IS NOT a crit weapon

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Can we run over people with Merulina?

Can we crouch on Merulina and not spin into infinite?

Speaking of spinning, can we at least have this spinning technique knock down enemies?

Spoiler

EmptyTastyGaur-size_restricted.gif

Can we not rework Aqua Blade and make it work like Helios' Deconstructor? 

If her stats are the only thing that's worth updating, I think its time to move on.

Edited by DaMasque
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I'm going to give DE credit here, I honestly thought they'd bury this at least until it was time for Yareli Prime. So good on ya, DE! 👍

The extra mobility on Merulina sounds interesting, I'm not sure it's really going to help on cramped tilesets but we'll see. Would still like to see a modable Merulina at some point.

Delighted to hear about the faster seek time and increased visibility of Sea Snares. Hopefully there's some better target acquisition going in as well; I've seen enemies walk right past stationary snares (ones that hit the end of their range) and it seems they cease "seeking" at that point as well. Step in the right direction, but would like to see this have some functionality with her other skills, or perhaps actually add procs instead of simply a damage type.

Aquablades. Oy vey. Okay, it's great that they're being touched up a bit with range. I still would have preferred this to be adjustable with range mods, but okay, we'll see how it pans out. I'd like to see the "kill zone" increased, so that everything from max range inward takes the damage. Trying to play that game of adjusting your position juuuuuust right so they take damage without getting within melee range is...not fun. Also, would love to see it toggleable so we can turn it off to avoid popping 'splody barrels and the like.

And of course, Rip Tide. Again, super-dee-duper for the extra range. But I don't think that was the issue. First, take the cue from Zephyr and have targets that are still alive just drop in place. If you want to ragdoll dead guys to hell and back, be my guest. But those that still need a rinse-and-repeat should just stay right where they are. Also, damage proc instead of just type. Also also, have it blend with other abilities...extra damage, extra duration, additional procs, the world is your oyster, just pick! But for an ultimate, even with added range, this seems kinda meh to be honest.

I'll reserve final judgement for after we get a chance to play with the new buffs and such. OH, also...have you fixed the issue with helminth skills, Vacuum/Fetch working while on Merulina, etc.? That would be great, thanks. 

Cautiously optimistic... 😏

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4 minutes ago, StarGeezerTim said:

I'm going to give DE credit here, I honestly thought they'd bury this at least until it was time for Yareli Prime. So good on ya, DE! 👍

The extra mobility on Merulina sounds interesting, I'm not sure it's really going to help on cramped tilesets but we'll see. Would still like to see a modable Merulina at some point.

Delighted to hear about the faster seek time and increased visibility of Sea Snares. Hopefully there's some better target acquisition going in as well; I've seen enemies walk right past stationary snares (ones that hit the end of their range) and it seems they cease "seeking" at that point as well. Step in the right direction, but would like to see this have some functionality with her other skills, or perhaps actually add procs instead of simply a damage type.

Aquablades. Oy vey. Okay, it's great that they're being touched up a bit with range. I still would have preferred this to be adjustable with range mods, but okay, we'll see how it pans out. I'd like to see the "kill zone" increased, so that everything from max range inward takes the damage. Trying to play that game of adjusting your position juuuuuust right so they take damage without getting within melee range is...not fun. Also, would love to see it toggleable so we can turn it off to avoid popping 'splody barrels and the like.

And of course, Rip Tide. Again, super-dee-duper for the extra range. But I don't think that was the issue. First, take the cue from Zephyr and have targets that are still alive just drop in place. If you want to ragdoll dead guys to hell and back, be my guest. But those that still need a rinse-and-repeat should just stay right where they are. Also, damage proc instead of just type. Also also, have it blend with other abilities...extra damage, extra duration, additional procs, the world is your oyster, just pick! But for an ultimate, even with added range, this seems kinda meh to be honest.

I'll reserve final judgement for after we get a chance to play with the new buffs and such. OH, also...have you fixed the issue with helminth skills, Vacuum/Fetch working while on Merulina, etc.? That would be great, thanks. 

Cautiously optimistic... 😏

I mean.. aside from the changes to merulina we're talking about a couple of numerical changes. I can't imagine much thought was put into this update.

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