Theorem and Residual Arcanes

[wirecard]

Hi All, dear [DE]velopers,

While experimenting with Residual and Theorem Arcanes recently, I came to the conclusion that they are designed badly and therefore plain useless. I'd really like to know about the usage stats of these Arcanes. I like the idea behind, but there are way better options like Arcane Rage and Arcane Precision.

The Zones created by Residual Arcanes last for 12 sec and are inflicted over distance (Unless the Player goes next to an enemy, but this contradicts the sense of using Guns). Theorem Arcanes however need 15 sec to reach their full potential (exception to Theorem Contagion). And the Player has to approach to the area in order to get the buff. This is the first design issue. Like mentioned above Arcance Rage and Arcane Precision provide same or stronger buffs more reliably than Theorem Demulcent.

Second design issue: the dependancies. The Arcanes barely do anything on their own. Theorems alone are completely useless, while using only Residuals may create minimal crowd control effects, but there are better options for this purpose e.g. using Magus Lockdown. Also the area of the zone on most Residuals is too low to be actually useful, except Residual Shock zone seems okay.

 

I have a few suggestions regarding on how to improve the issues mentioned above. In line with U30.5 the Residuals should be applicable on all types of guns, not restricted to Kitguns only. Completely remove Theorems, increase Radius of Residuals and let them buff their respective Element directly to the Weapon. Slightly increase the probability of triggering. Increase the uptime of buff, while it gets to its max much faster.

I think of something like "23% chance to spawn 15m (diameter) AoE that lasts for 18sec. Enemies in the zone will suffer x (let it as is) damage of that element. Standing in the zone applies 15/s Element Damage type to the gun capped at 90% for 15sec"

These suggested Changes are aimed more at Theorem Demulcent than on other Theorems, as I think their Usage tends towards zero (for Players that have access to the majority of Arcanes {sure when I got no other things to apply there, I'd also take this over nothing at all}).

They will get much more Attention and Usage in this way I guess. Please let me know what You think and thank You very much for reading.

[DarkSkysz]

6 minutes ago, wirecard said:

I'd really like to know about the usage stats of these Arcanes

Some call it 'filler', come call it 'garbage'... but in the end... they are all the same thing. Extra loot in the table to avoid farming the good stuff too fast.

[(XBOX)Nekros9528]

As a Nekros main I personally hate these arcanes. Not only they get bugged sometimes but because it has a very annoying and restrictive mechanic in order to proc. I don't want to use 2 kitguns and limit my gameplay into jumping in the arcanes element cicles in order to make my shadows do what they were supposed to do by themselves (vanilla) - no augment mod...

[Joezone619]

Honestly if it were up to me i'd flat out remove them. They're soo bad, they were deemed useless before they even released, instead of taking the hint that nobody wanted to use them, DE released them anyways.

They tend to be ignoring our feedback a lot with recent updates. People said gear restriction on orphix venom is bad, they did nothing, people had many issues with corpus proxima, all of which went unacknowledged. The majority of the community didn't want helminth invigorations, they completely ignored us, to the point where if you go the the trello board, helminth still has nothing for feedback.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Joezone619

[wirecard]

On 2021-08-22 at 6:01 PM, DarkSkysz said:

Some call it 'filler', come call it 'garbage'...

Reminds me of Simpsons Movie scene when the dome gets in position over Springfield and the guy be like "I want tough guys and weak guys to make the tough guys look even more tough".

 

On 2021-08-22 at 10:36 PM, Joezone619 said:

Honestly if it were up to me i'd flat out remove them

That's the other option, but i think they will stay for the purpose @DarkSkysz mentioned in his Post.

About the feedback and stuff... I Remember @[DE]Pablosaying on Tennocon 2021 the Teams status quo is more like adding new stuff instead of reworking and improving existing material. (Maybe I misunderstood something because EN is not my first language but I think this hits the nail.) While I respect that attitude, I have to admit I fear the Game resembles more of a patchwork than an experience coherent in itself. Although this attitude seems to be not coherent in all cases because there were quite a lot of Reworks e.g. Zephyr, Wukong, Vauban, Melee system, Gun system and so on.

Edited August 24, 2021 by wirecard
Removed stuff that was too much to keep it simple

[DarkSkysz]

49 minutes ago, wirecard said:

lthough this attitude seems to be not coherent in all cases because there were quite a lot of Reworks e.g. Zephyr, Wukong, Vauban, Melee system, Gun system and so on.

He was talking about game modes. He rather add a new defence type of mission that reword the current one.

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

Residual and Theorem mods being designed to work in tandem was detrimental to the utility of both.

[sunderthefirmament]

I am thankful that they were dead on arrival.  The matchmaking for Deimos Isolation Vault bounties is already a nightmare of players wanting to extract at different times.  Arcana content was cursed from the jump on account of how difficult it is just to get in a party for it.  Farming these arcanes would be horrific.

 

This game is fun, but it's not stable.  And Arcana bounties are inherently dependent on longer play sessions.  That's just not safe in Warframe, unfortunately.

 

Leave these arcanes as the worthless trash they are.  I don't want to have to farm them.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Should of been a set bonus arcane rather than being dependent of each other. Aside from that, I don't think there's even a playstyle that can take advantage of the arcane. Considering how enemy AI behave. The best choice is to go against the Infested letting them rush the tenno.

[Schwitzer]

These arcanes are fundamentally flawed in several ways. They would need to be re-worked from the ground up before they could be considered viable.

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

See, I do find the Residual group to have applications, but only on modular guns where Headshots aren't possible.  They're not a bad idea, they're just underdeveloped.  The entire Theorem set isn't worth equipping.

The entire "Marked Zone" mechanic they've been toying with across a number of Mods and Sets just isn't appealing.

[(XBOX)Nekros9528]

On 2021-08-22 at 10:36 PM, Joezone619 said:

Honestly if it were up to me i'd flat out remove them. They're soo bad, they were deemed useless before they even released, instead of taking the hint that nobody wanted to use them, DE released them anyways.

They tend to be ignoring our feedback a lot with recent updates. People said gear restriction on orphix venom is bad, they did nothing, people had many issues with corpus proxima, all of which went unacknowledged. The majority of the community didn't want helminth invigorations, they completely ignored us, to the point where if you go the the trello board, helminth still has nothing for feedback.

Your comment is really good. Perhaps make it a Post?

[wirecard]

On 2021-08-25 at 12:05 AM, DarkSkysz said:

He was talking about game modes. He rather add a new defence type of mission that reword the current one.

Thanks! 👍

[sitfesz]

I think they spent more time writing the description texts on these arcanes than thinking on them.
These arcanes were the most comic hill for DE and for the "you can't call it trash until you try it out" people to die on. That being said, I kind of want those to stay this way to keep this memory alive forever.

Edited August 26, 2021 by sitfesz