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Vauban - Should Vortex be Line of Sight?


BiancaRoughfin
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Swazdo-Lah Tenno!

For start, no i am not asking for a Nerf, Vauban is a great Warframe and i really like all of his kit, that being said.

Vauban's Vortex is a very useful Crowd Control ability but it has a very bad downside that i dont often see people complaining about, how its able to draw enemies in through the walls causing them to often get stuck and delaying the mission, some times even becoming unreachable.

My question is, should Vauban's Vortex be Line of Sight to avoid enemies getting stuck in the scenario? This would apply to Vortex only and not the Bastille, Bastille will still affect enemies on the other side of walls or obstructions but i feel the Vortex should only draw in enemies that are not behind walls and obstruction. Either that or [DE] making some way for the enemies that get caught by the Vortex to ragdoll along a path that will eventually lead them to the center of the vortex and avoid things that could cause them to get stuck.

What are other Tenno's opinions on this?

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The garbage ragdolling is the primary reason why enemies get stuck even on just slightly uneven ground. Vortex used to work as one would expect way back in the day, so LoS requirement wouldn't necessarily even fix Vortex's ability to correctly pull enemies in all of the cases. One helpful thing DE could change is reducing the vertical range of Vortex, so that enemies above and below it wouldn't get stuck on floors and ceilings.

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IMO vortex should 100% be Line of Sight. While it sounds like this would be a big problem I think ultimately this would make the ability much better. If it is pulling from LOS then fewer enemies would get stuck on geometry (meaning you aren't able to kill them easily in the vortex). While I love Vortex and consider it one of the best CC abilities in the game, if it only interacted with LOS I think it would be much more user friendly. 

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Very much NOT a fan of nerfing mass CC to require LoS. Please no.

If enemies get stuck somewhere because of Vortex
[BTW I'm not saying the pull shouldn't be improved to possibly drag enemies out of their "stuck" spots],
then it's on the Vauban player's shoulders to (e.g. bring Enemy Radar and an AoE weapon to) deal with that.

The ability is fine.

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3 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

especially in defense missiosn

Again I'd say, if someone uses Vortex in a way that hinders mission progress, the player is where the problem lies.

You can't make things fool proof, the most likely outcome of attempting to do so is to just make things worse for everyone.

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22 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

Again I'd say, if someone uses Vortex in a way that hinders mission progress, the player is where the problem lies.

You can't make things fool proof, the most likely outcome of attempting to do so is to just make things worse for everyone.

Players cant control enemy spawn and pathing. LoS vortex would mean that the moment the enemies become relevant they get snagged by Vortex and in that case more range would be helpful instead of hamper you. No more tryna spot damage ticks to find enemies stuck on walls. For locking down massive areas behind walls then you get Bastille anw.

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1 hour ago, T-Shark69 said:

Players cant control enemy spawn and pathing. LoS vortex would mean that the moment the enemies become relevant they get snagged by Vortex and in that case more range would be helpful instead of hamper you. No more tryna spot damage ticks to find enemies stuck on walls. For locking down massive areas behind walls then you get Bastille anw.

Precisely. Issues with Vortex in Defense missions are not player-controlled. The ability not having LOS restrictions is why these issues come up. Were it to have LOS restrictions added defense missions would ultimately be cleared faster IMO. Enemies would still path into the range of the vortex and get sucked in. They are pretty dang dumb, after all. They just zerg dash into combat range then mill around shooting. 

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Nah, Vortex fails because of poor geometry or bad ragdolling like shield lancers. Also this would make defence missions (specially Grineer and Corpus) mostly unbearable since on solo the enemies tend to take cover more often and throw grenades from further away (wich their damage is ridicolous like any explosive thing from enemies).

But some would say, "if the enemies are like that on solo then play with a squad" yeah.... if I played defences with a squad I wouldnt be using vortex really because of the typical Ember or Saryn that dont give a damn about walls so...

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The Vauban player should be using Tether if LoS is what they want / need.
[Plus of course, Tether needs to be fixed already to not have enemies stay stuck on the ground rather than get pulled in.]

Really, Vauban is not the best choice for Defense, like many other missions it's more profitable there to use wide-AoE nuke Frames.

But nerfing Vortex CC makes him very much worse in missions where pure CC shines most / doesn't hinder mission progress,
like, bring him to Mobile Defense if you want your "Defense" experience spiced up with enemy ragdoll funzies.

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On 2021-08-23 at 5:04 PM, Vortex said:

This would make the skill useless, so no.

Have you seen Nidus' larvae?  It has LoS.  Is it useless? No, its quite hellish.

Vauban's Vortex with LoS will work like a continuous Larvae with a bit slower pull.   That's far from useless. 

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I'm legitimately puzzled by all the comments on enemies getting stuck. Just toss the vortex at the ceiling, solves 90% of such issues.

As to the original question, I don't want it, I like vauban's convenient CC; and it's not like gravity in RL cares (much) about walls in its way. That said, it would be internally consistent I suppose.

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On 2021-08-25 at 3:11 PM, Kainosh said:

Have you seen Nidus' larvae?  It has LoS.  Is it useless? No, its quite hellish.

Vauban's Vortex with LoS will work like a continuous Larvae with a bit slower pull.   That's far from useless. 

This guy gets it.

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The "issue" is easily solved by placing Vortex properly, or using weapons that get around the "issue" as well as being aware.

Poorly placed vortex isn't the only way to slow a mission down, and I'm going to assume this is about Defense. This isn't the only way to slow down Defense, and "altering" [nerfing] any Warframe that people don't like or is being played poorly doesn't make sense.

As for unreachable enemies, in specific tiles, this happens without a Vauban being present and is a separate issue DE just needs to fix.

Edited by Yamazuki
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On 2021-08-22 at 1:48 PM, BiancaRoughfin said:

Swazdo-Lah Tenno!

For start, no i am not asking for a Nerf, Vauban is a great Warframe and i really like all of his kit, that being said.

Vauban's Vortex is a very useful Crowd Control ability but it has a very bad downside that i dont often see people complaining about, how its able to draw enemies in through the walls causing them to often get stuck and delaying the mission, some times even becoming unreachable.

My question is, should Vauban's Vortex be Line of Sight to avoid enemies getting stuck in the scenario? This would apply to Vortex only and not the Bastille, Bastille will still affect enemies on the other side of walls or obstructions but i feel the Vortex should only draw in enemies that are not behind walls and obstruction. Either that or [DE] making some way for the enemies that get caught by the Vortex to ragdoll along a path that will eventually lead them to the center of the vortex and avoid things that could cause them to get stuck.

What are other Tenno's opinions on this?

Agree with everything said.

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On 2021-08-22 at 12:53 PM, Wyrmius_Prime said:

The garbage ragdolling is the primary reason why enemies get stuck even on just slightly uneven ground. Vortex used to work as one would expect way back in the day, so LoS requirement wouldn't necessarily even fix Vortex's ability to correctly pull enemies in all of the cases. One helpful thing DE could change is reducing the vertical range of Vortex, so that enemies above and below it wouldn't get stuck on floors and ceilings.

^This. The current vortex is so weird. It's like it applies glue to the enemies, so they would stick firmly to any nearby walls, uneven surfaces, or stairs. It doesn't even feels like a vortex because the suction power is so weak.

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