Galvanized Mods and Gun Arcanes vs Bosses, proposed fix?

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

So the new Galvanized Mods and Gun Arcanes all require you to continuously gain Kills in order to keep them active

if you can't get a kill, they actually degrade to be Lesser stats than the non-galvanized equivalent, putting you at a disadvantage.

This gets to be a problem with Bosses, where your kill stacks run dry. and there's not enough (if any) mobs to recover from.

 

a Proposal:

Kill Stacks do not Decay as long as you are Dealing Damage

This will have no effect on the usual mobs, since kill and damage are synonymous for weak enemies. The Gain Kills to build up stacks mechanic remains.

Most missions will play out exactly as they do currently.

but when it comes to a Boss Fight, your stacks stay active so long as you are actively fighting.

 

[Leqesai]

Personally I don't really think this sounds necessary. With a couple of exceptions I didn't find any of the bosses problematic without arcanes/galvanized mods. The only real issues I had going through Steel Path were Ropalyst and that shadow guy on Deimos (forget the name). Most of the other bosses weren't really much harder than the regular version outside of being tankier.

[Alvengerz]

most of the regular boss fights in this game isn't that hard with the exceptions of the jordas, zealoid, and the flying eidolon. There are always regular mobs spawning around bosses for you to keep your galv/arcane effect stacks up. i don't think this kind of "fix" you are proposing is needed.

[(XBOX)spikeylizard]

what about the eidilon were you can't really stack at all?

[(PSN)Havok21Zero]

In the normal star chart, I would say that the proposed change is not necessary.

If we are discussing Steel Path, I think there is merit to what you are proposing but it is a symptom of a larger problem in Steel Path and Primary/Secondary weapons just not being as effective as they should be. But YMMV.

[Leqesai]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Havok21Zero said:

In the normal star chart, I would say that the proposed change is not necessary.

If we are discussing Steel Path, I think there is merit to what you are proposing but it is a symptom of a larger problem in Steel Path and Primary/Secondary weapons just not being as effective as they should be. But YMMV.

The issue is not with the primary or secondary weapons. The issue is with the armor to damage reduction system. It makes grineer disproportionately resistant and makes people think the weapons are ineffective. The weapons have never been ineffective by virtue of their stats. This is why bosses are less a problem than one might think, in steel path. With a few exceptions.

[(PSN)Havok21Zero]

You are right. That is the bigger problem in the situation. Given what I think we have all seen, DE seems to be more focused in increasing weapon stats/effectiveness vs. the armor/damage reduction system even though I think we all agree that the armor/damage reduction is where the root case of the issue is. :-)

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Havok21Zero said:

You are right. That is the bigger problem in the situation. Given what I think we have all seen, DE seems to be more focused in increasing weapon stats/effectiveness vs. the armor/damage reduction system even though I think we all agree that the armor/damage reduction is where the root case of the issue is. :-)

Exactly.

There are numerous solutions to the armor issue but I think the simplest would be to give armor a flat damage reduction then count the armor value as its own health bar (all damage goes to armor first then to health after armor is removed).

[(PSN)Havok21Zero]

17 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Exactly.

There are numerous solutions to the armor issue but I think the simplest would be to give armor a flat damage reduction then count the armor value as its own health bar (all damage goes to armor first then to health after armor is removed).

I really do like that solution. Here's to hoping that some change comes somewhere. I think DE knows something is wrong. I just don't think they know how to proceed forward just yet.

[Tiltskillet]

On 2021-08-22 at 5:31 PM, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

a Proposal:

Kill Stacks do not Decay as long as you are Dealing Damage

This will have no effect on the usual mobs, since kill and damage are synonymous for weak enemies. The Gain Kills to build up stacks mechanic remains.

Most missions will play out exactly as they do currently.

but when it comes to a Boss Fight, your stacks stay active so long as you are actively fighting.

I can't tell whether you're proposing any source of damage or just that specific weapon?

Anyway, boss fights without many adds are a small part of the game, and this would have ramifications on almost all of it.  So I guess the real question is whether and how much easier it needs to be to maintain stacks.

I don't have an answer to that yet.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I can't tell whether you're proposing any source of damage or just that specific weapon?

Anyway, boss fights without many adds are a small part of the game, and this would have ramifications on almost all of it.  So I guess the real question is whether and how much easier it needs to be to maintain stacks.

I don't have an answer to that yet.

by "boss" I was trying to save face

in truth, its any SP content over level 120-ish that I have problems maintaining kill stacks.

When the time to kill any given mob exceeds the 4 second duration, it makes no progress and my guns stay weak.

This tends to be exacerbated when other Tenno are present and kill steal using more meta weapons/melee.

mini-bosses like Liches, Juggernauts, and Acolytes are also problematic, because while they don't explicitly prevent mobs from spawning, they tend to focus your attention onto a singular location, and mobs in the immediate area will tend to run out unless you advance through the map. and unless you can kill 2+ mobs per 4 seconds, your Merciless stacks will fall into a decaying cycle, which just reinforces itself.

 

its a circular problem, can't hold stacks because gun is weak, gun is weak because can't hold stacks. <-perhaps this is the core problem of it

 

so yes, I feel like it needs to be easier to maintain stacks on all content.

if it was totally up to me, to make guns compete with melee they'd use an 'on hit' mechanism just as melee does.

the proposal of 'on kill' to Gain stacks 'on hit' to Maintain was a compromise idea since apparently DE is scared of going too far.

 

-note that when facing a tanky enemy, melee players don't need to divide their attention between dealing dps, and seeking out mobs to maintain their counters. They can just focus on the one guy and do both simultaneously.

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

DE already slaps damage attenuation on every new boss.

The On Kill stack issue against bosses is intentional. 

DE will always power creep our ability to shred mooks, but bosses are a different matter.

[CephalonCarnage]

What is a boss battle? The steel path boss that is not significantly different to the ordinary boss due to standard innate DR and invulnerability, or the Nox with excessive armour and DR you had to get past to get to the boss? 🤔 😀