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what if Inaros' thematic gimmick also included Health Gating?


taiiat
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real quick. what if Inaros had Health Gating. if the primary purpose of the Warframe is high durability, well, what if say, Inaros had some Passive Health Gating, plus Scarab Swarm also offered some. 

if other Abilities got reworked at some point to be more useful, those could also be centered around Health Gating.
imagine if Health Gates was like a currency for Inaros' Abilities?

 

let's theorycraft this real quick. Inaros could even go all in on this. let's say instead of 550 Base Health, Inaros had.... 5? 2? but he was all about juggling Health Gates. 
if we give him a Passive of having say, every Health point is a Health Gate(preserving that Health Mods are useful), and each of those Health Gates made Inaros invulnerable for like 1/3 of a Second(maybe plus also negating the next hit, like Mesmer Skin), plus boosted movement Speed by a fair amount for a couple Seconds. also extend this Passive to Inaros' Companions in some fashion, though it'd have to be different since obviously your Companions would have normal amounts of Health.

then, the Abilities can fill up a Warframe specific currency that both benefits Inaros' Abilities, plus that currency also directly adds more Health Gates to Inaros.

 

 

i'm just focusing on the overall theme of Inaros here mainly, the details about the Abilities has been gone over enough times.

 

 

 

 

(TF? why is adding a Tag a requirement? none of them even apply to this, at all)

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So it sounds like what you are getting at is more like a "Hit Pool" rather than a "Health Pool", where there is no damage necessarily, but instead a limited number of hits.

It'd probably be fine. Ironically, I feel like it would wind up with reverse scaling, where this new Inaros is more effective in high level stuff, while early game stuff he'd be quite useless because in the case of the number of hits, he is effectively ignoring the level, meaning a level 1 enemy does the same "damage" to him as a level 100 enemy.

It'd probably be great for surviving in high level stuff, but I don't know about DPS...though, it's been awhile since I played Inaros, but isn't he already one of the toughest frames to kill and stay dead?

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21 minutes ago, Yuzuki-Prime said:

It'd probably be fine. Ironically, I feel like it would wind up with reverse scaling, where this new Inaros is more effective in high level stuff, while early game stuff he'd be quite useless because in the case of the number of hits, he is effectively ignoring the level, meaning a level 1 enemy does the same "damage" to him as a level 100 enemy.

i tried to think about this, and with Inaros having Healing he should be able to work. unranked, now.... that might not go as well, but you can't get Inaros super early on anyways, so that's probably okay?
having like 4-5 Health of Gates and the ability to refill periodically will probably suffice until Leveled, i think.

 

21 minutes ago, Yuzuki-Prime said:

it's been awhile since I played Inaros, but isn't he already one of the toughest frames to kill and stay dead?

not having Shield Gating is a big con thesedays, plus that recently DR got significantly nerfed.
in content where Enemy Damage is relevant, individual hits can sometimes be approaching or exceeding 4 digits. Inaros is definitely not the "stand here AFK" sort of Warframe that he was some Years ago.

Edited by taiiat
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I think rather than implementing something complicated and changing the fundamental rule of the game , a easier way to get through the problem is to rework his passive . Which is kind of like health gate , as they both provide room for error .

Though I'm not sure about the exact mechanic of his passive , I know it didn't work well in high level , due to it doesn't have scaling .

By appling some scaling and speed it up , along side adding some DR/invincibility after revive , gave even allow his 2 that's present when he's down to instantly provide some progress for his passive or even become a substitute , being vaporized won't be that much of a issue .

 

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2 minutes ago, Bakahung said:

I think rather than implementing something complicated and changing the fundamental rule of the game , a easier way to get through the problem is to rework his passive . Which is kind of like health gate , as they both provide room for error .

Though I'm not sure about the exact mechanic of his passive , I know it didn't work well in high level , due to it doesn't have scaling .

By appling some scaling and speed it up , along side adding some DR/invincibility after revive , gave even allow his 2 that's present when he's down to instantly provide some progress for his passive or even become a substitute , being vaporized won't be that much of a issue .

so you're thinking something like, have the Passive resurrection be able to Kill stuff, so that Inaros' design is that you will die sometimes but you can come back from the dead "infinitely".

that could also work, yes. it clashes with the flow of the overall game, but it could work.

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3 minutes ago, taiiat said:

so you're thinking something like, have the Passive resurrection be able to Kill stuff, so that Inaros' design is that you will die sometimes but you can come back from the dead "infinitely".

that could also work, yes. it clashes with the flow of the overall game, but it could work.

I mean... That's what he's about at the start , being literally immortal.

That being said , if full immortality is somehow bad to the game , there can be some downsides to it , like require more life every time it triggers , or only have limited use.

Personally I don't think it won't be an issue . But if it cause issue , there are many way to fix it.

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51 minutes ago, Bakahung said:

I mean... That's what he's about at the start , being literally immortal.

true, but the resurrection kinda clashes with the flow of the game that we otherwise have. it's stopping and doing something, if no Enemies are nearby potentially even waiting for one to come close enough - while normally we're supposed to flow at a constant pace through any Terrain.

49 minutes ago, Bakahung said:

That being said , if full immortality is somehow bad to the game
Personally I don't think it won't be an issue.

i don't see it being a balance issue either. the way to balance is to self revive takes some relevant amount of time, so resurrecting constantly wastes a lot of Mission time and if you have a Health based Objective, you're not detending it over and over.

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I just don't see... Why. Like, what the point of messing with _this_ part of his kit is.

Inaros does basically two things well: Stay alive, and toss pocket sand then smack things with a stick.

If you're going to completely rework the mechanics of something on him, maybe look at his 3, or the sand clones and damage scaling on his 2.

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On 2021-08-23 at 1:26 PM, taiiat said:

so you're thinking something like, have the Passive resurrection be able to Kill stuff, so that Inaros' design is that you will die sometimes but you can come back from the dead "infinitely".

That sounds good. It fits to his mummy theme. Currently he is more of a sand golem than a mummy. But we won't know until it's actually tested.

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1 hour ago, XaoGarrent said:

Inaros does basically two things well: Stay alive, and toss pocket sand then smack things with a stick.

 

On 2021-08-22 at 11:23 PM, taiiat said:

not having Shield Gating is a big con thesedays, plus that recently DR got significantly nerfed.
in content where Enemy Damage is relevant, individual hits can sometimes be approaching or exceeding 4 digits. Inaros is definitely not the "stand here AFK" sort of Warframe that he was some Years ago.

Inaros is not what he used to be, suffice to say.

2 hours ago, XaoGarrent said:

If you're going to completely rework the mechanics of something on him, maybe look at his 3, or the sand clones and damage scaling on his 2.

 

On 2021-08-22 at 9:57 PM, taiiat said:

i'm just focusing on the overall theme of Inaros here mainly, the details about the Abilities has been gone over enough times.

also the only Ability of his that's actually decent in its current state is Dessication. the other 3 must be rethought, as they are just generally inconsequential.

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, acevezwing said:

That sounds good. It fits to his mummy theme. Currently he is more of a sand golem than a mummy. But we won't know until it's actually tested.

i just have concerns about that breaking out of playing the Mission to essentially do some minigame. 
game is built to be a smooth moving, generally pretty fast game, so i'm not sure it's a great idea.

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5 hours ago, taiiat said:

 

Inaros is not what he used to be, suffice to say.

 

also the only Ability of his that's actually decent in its current state is Dessication. the other 3 must be rethought, as they are just generally inconsequential.

 

 

 

i just have concerns about that breaking out of playing the Mission to essentially do some minigame. 
game is built to be a smooth moving, generally pretty fast game, so i'm not sure it's a great idea.

Not a lot of frames are what they used to be. That's not necessarily a problem.

His 4 is good, if very plain. Paired with his health pool it's a good part of why people keep putting him in A tier... I don't really think he belongs there, but whatever, warframe community is going to warframe community. Point is his 4 just needs some mechanical tweaks, like not being instantly and completely broken by nullifiers, transitions in things like ESO, etc.

His 2 and 3 aren't great, but at least his 2 is functional. It actually does something (the healing), even if that something is a bit redundant in most situations. He's not that much worse off than Atlas. ...Then again everyone seems to think Atlas is horrible for some reason, when in reality he's just kinda middling and has most of the same sorts of problems Inaros does.

I'd rather they focus on the frames that really need the attention right now, since they already seem to be struggling with the workload. Functional but flawed frames can wait for Hydroid and Yareli to get looked at.

Edited by XaoGarrent
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4 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

Not a lot of frames are what they used to be.

His 4 is good

most other Warframes have features other than having a large Health number going for them.

200 Armor is not a 'good Ability'. the Healing that Scarab Swarm can offer is frankly better than that though nobody uses it, and that's not exactly amazing either.

5 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

His 2 and 3 aren't great, but at least his 2 is functional. It actually does something (the healing), even if that something is a bit redundant in most situations. He's not that much worse off than Atlas. ...Then again everyone seems to think Atlas is horrible for some reason, when in reality he's just kinda middling and has most of the same sorts of problems Inaros does.

Atlas is.... not even remotely bad. Rumblers works, even if they don't have a core purpose with the kit.
Tectonics obviously needs some extra features to make up for being nerfed and no longer trolling AI.
and then Atlas has two incredibly powerful Abilities? plus Path of Statues is pretty good. 

saying that Inaros works better than Atlas is surely a joke, though.

 

 

Hydroid is already functional contrary to popular meming, he's just sorta like Frost that his primary Gameplay loop is built around defensive scenarios with limited moving - Yareli i doubt ever will be because the theme just doesn't have a use in the game.
i don't really care if other Warframes have issues as almost all do - this Thread is a thought experiment of "what if it worked this way".

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It would make more sense to do this to a new Warframe and have their kit based around it.

While I personally don't enjoy playing Inaros, and find him to be the least useful Warframe in the game, people like him as is. He's just a blob of HP to people with no management unlike other Warframes, and he functions fine within DE's standard level ranges of 1 to ~150 or so. Even in SP, most enemies can't kill him either. The lack of shields is only relevant in very specific scenarios and then sitting in an endless mission which is something the overwhelming majority of people don't do. Even if he had 1 shield, he wouldn't be used in said situations.

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Coming from someone who was an Inaros main since I started playing around Chains of Harrow, the way I would personally do it is to rework his passive to be sort of a health-gate during bleedout.

 

Instead of the useless sarcophagus life-leeching (which Sevagoth has proven could be done MUCH better) make him instead survive at "0" life with a health-gate while he rapidly crumbles into sand during his bleedout, getting progressively slower and weaker, unable to use guns but able to use his abilities still. If you don't use any of his methods to heal before he crumbles completely (or are revived by a teammate), he dies, otherwise if you manage to get back to max health, the invulnerability goes away and you're effectively revived.

If anything it's even more fitting than the sarcophagus since in the Sands of Inaros quest he's shown to basically be able to become a sandstorm presumably after his death, and his 3rd ability has him literally becoming sand, so him sort of crumbling would make more sense than random sarcophagus out of nowhere. Sure it's not as "mummy", but it's more "Inaros".

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