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Amp self stagger


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You're not going to see self-stagger reversed, but it may be reasonable to ask for it to be taken off of Operator Amps. Those things suck ass anyway, Operators have no source of status protection and it's just adding insult to injury. The Shraksun Scaffold. That has a 10 meter projectile range, a 7 meter AoE range and a fairly slow projectile, meaning even a brisk walk will put you inside the AoE of your own shots. Few other weapons have such awful design for self-damage.

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16 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

You're not going to see self-stagger reversed, but it may be reasonable to ask for it to be taken off of Operator Amps.

I feel like DE adding self-stagger to Amps was just a kneejerk reaction to all other AoE damage sources potentially getting a stagger implementation (not to mention the plethora of weapons they gave self-stagger even without that prerequisite). Thus, I am fully in support of the idea of amp self-stagger at the very least being reduced, if not removed entirely. It seems like an odd mechanic to carry over with such a massive effect when the actual damage suffered by Ops in the blast radius is nowhere near the level of Frames when they absorbed the same level of damage.

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13 hours ago, iPathos said:

I feel like DE adding self-stagger to Amps was just a kneejerk reaction to all other AoE damage sources potentially getting a stagger implementation (not to mention the plethora of weapons they gave self-stagger even without that prerequisite).

That's certainly what it looks like. I honestly can't blame DE for implementing consistency between weapons, and I'm not even THAT opposed to self-stagger on Operator amps. The problem is that the designs of some Amps (and a few AoE weapons) put the player almost immediately inside their own AoE range. With self-damage that wasn't an issue since the damage was low. Self-stagger doesn't have a "low" version so even a little bit of self-damage triggers a pretty unpleasant stagger.

The simple solution is just removing self-stagger from Operator amps. Call it a special-case exception. The slightly more complex solution would be better self-stagger falloff. You could, for instance, trigger self-stagger at a shorter range than the weapon's full AoE range. For instance, the Shraksun could trigger stagger at 4-5 meters out of its 7 meter range. Alternately, you could add a "no stagger" effect which would essentially not stagger the player unless they were close enough or took enough theoretical damage. Same effect as above, but slightly more flexible.

I don't know this for a fact, but it seems like DE went with linear falloff for both damage and stagger in AoE weapons. I remember proposing a series of models for parabolic falloff, where damage would remain high for a larger part of the AoE range while stagger would remain close but then spike nearer the centre. A simple quadratic function could accomplish that, but I don't know that anything ever came of it.

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Completely agree. Self-Stagger really doesn't fit the Operator playstyle.

The Phad Scaffold has become extremely annoying to use, because of how randomly it moves. It didn't even have self-damage before it was changed.
Dissic can be a bit unpredictable in where the fragments fall.

Shraksun was in a completely unusable state for quite a while.. that one got improved, luckily.

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23 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

The problem is that the designs of some Amps (and a few AoE weapons) put the player almost immediately inside their own AoE range. With self-damage that wasn't an issue since the damage was low.

At least when you were not using any of the virtuous arcanes that convert void damage to any element, although virtuous trojan is kinda hard to resist using on a 6XX amp.

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Applying Stagger to Operator Amps is legit the only bad aspect to that entire update.  Everywhere else in the game it felt like a logical and gameplay-enhancing change.  I'm glad I had made a few different Amps already because, when that update went life, only one of them was still a little useful.

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On 2021-08-24 at 9:46 AM, Steel_Rook said:

You're not going to see self-stagger reversed, but it may be reasonable to ask for it to be taken off of Operator Amps. Those things suck ass anyway, Operators have no source of status protection and it's just adding insult to injury. The Shraksun Scaffold. That has a 10 meter projectile range, a 7 meter AoE range and a fairly slow projectile, meaning even a brisk walk will put you inside the AoE of your own shots. Few other weapons have such awful design for self-damage.

I know that self stagger wont be reversed. I only want stagger off amp's, it's ridiculous to have them have stagger

 

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