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Reduce Mastery Rank Test Fail Time-out by 1 Hour per MR Level


Gelos.Prime
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Players give Warframe a lot of time and effort required to advance in Mastery Ranks.  I have long felt the game should give players something back.

While personally I do not like the Mastery Rank test system, it is not the tests themselves I dislike, but rather the 24-hour time-out period for failing a Mastery Rank test.  For me, the most frustrating thing about failing the test is not the fail itself, but having to wait 24 hours before trying again.

I would like to suggest that - starting with the Mastery Rank 7 test - 1 hour is cut off the MR test fail wait time per Mastery Level, down to a minimum wait time of 1 hour at the Mastery Rank 30 test.

Players who reach Mastery Ranks 20, 25, 30 and beyond have already put a substantial amount of time and effort into the game and should not have to wait 24 hours to re-take a failed Mastery Rank test.

To me, players who have put that much time and effort into the game deserve some form of give-back from DE and one deserving response would be a lowered MR test fail wait time.

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24 minutes ago, Rastanari said:

Players who reach Mastery Ranks 20, 25, 30 and beyond have already put a substantial amount of time and effort into the game and should not have to wait 24 hours to re-take a failed Mastery Rank test.

Mastery rank and time spent on the game aren't really the same thing. So who should not wait 24 hours; the person with 2k hours, but only MR16 or the person with 800 hours and MR20?

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No.. remove the timers completely.

I couldn't care less about the MR tests since I am MR31, but it frustrates me that there are these arbitrary time gates, that make no sense. People complain about it very frequently. Usually you don't fail a test, because you are incapable, but because you make a mistake or because you misunderstand the test.

So far I have never heard a good reason for the existence of 24h time gate. No matter if you fail or succeed. 

If we really need a punisment for failing the test, make it an hour.
And remove the timegate when you succeed in the test.
When you are a new player and you are excited about the game, the biggest let down is, when you really want to progress asap, but you cannot, because there is 24h timegate.

And there is no logical reason to have it.

Edited by Cerikus
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20 minutes ago, Infirito said:

This stuff prevents account boosting and selling off said accounts, so I very much doubt it'll get changed anytime soon.

Precisely.

The time-gating is in for a reason. They aren't going to remove it just because you guys find it annoying. We've all had to deal with the 24 hour time-gate and most of us know enough to just suck it up and move forward with it.

At least the new guys get to practice the tests. Back in the day there was no way to practice tests so you might spend days/weeks trying to pass a mastery rank test.

Edited by Leqesai
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1 hour ago, Rastanari said:

To me, players who have put that much time and effort into the game deserve some form of give-back from DE and one deserving response would be a lowered MR test fail wait time.

I do agree that there is a flaw with the way MR tests work, however, I'm not sure I agree with your suggestion.
Generally speaking, in life, things get tougher the older you get. You have more forgiveness for mistakes when you are young, and as you become an adult a mistake can cost you a lot. I'm not saying a video game needs to be a reflection, but likewise, this type of thing is often incorporated into game progressions; it also helps tickle those neurons in your head with a constant flow of progression, where eventually that trickles off to make you salivate for more...

So what I am really getting at is that, 1) your idea is a little bit backwards. Especially because you are given something for completion; increased pools (load out slots, traces, standing) It's probably better if new players are able to fail (especially since they are still learning the game) and forgive their early failures...it would also be nice if they were allowed to rank up MR faster than a 24 hour wait after ranking up. As their MR increases, it makes more sense to punish failure more.
However, 2) I don't even agree entirely with my above proposed solution. I think the problem with MR also comes down to leveling in general. Asas mentioned by user Infirito, if this is implemented to prevent account boosting, and MR is tied to weapons that you have leveled, then boosting an account is actually more about how quickly you can level weapons, which comes down to Affinity farms.
There was a time years ago, DE seemed to be on a witch-hunt for these affinity farms, but I guess they have given up on them, since I think the current node for affinity farming has been up-and-running for a long time now. If it was fun to level weapons/Warframes, I'm sure more people would level them normally through regular play and that would naturally slow progression. I don't know how to squash the affinity farms, but what I do know is that if leveling weapons was done normally, that would be enough of a time gate to prevent account boosting. If you are right that this time gate is solely there to prevent account boosting (which I'm not 100% sure I agree with), then making weapons level normally would remove the necessity of the time gate and allow for MR without punishment.

p.s.
the discussion on the leveling system is a topic for another time

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1 hour ago, Aratir said:

If you are around mr 10+ you should not fail any of the test they are braindead easy....

I don't know what MR test it was but in one test there were suppose to be some kind of elevator but I haven't seen it few times I've tried that test. Of course I failed.

So it's possible to fail by mistake or something...

... however we can test it in Simaris rooms so failing real test is on us.

 

As for OP, making it 23 hours like other stuffs (e.g. forma) so you can test it once per day would be nice.

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OP here.  Thank you for the responses.

Respectfully, account boosting considerations are not an issue here.  Players who deal in that activity are going to be skilled enough that they will be fairly adept at passing Mastery Rank tests, so the 24-hour time-out is not an issue for them (not that I'm encouraging or approving that activity).

I'm advocating to reduce frustration for us - normal players - who have put time and effort into the game. 

As the level of Mastery Rank tests rises, so does the difficulty, which is all well and good.  My point is that from the 20+ level, haven't I, as a player, earned a little give-back from DE?  Why, if I am taking a level 25 Mastery Rank test, do I have to wait 24 hours for a failed test like a rookie would failing a Mastery Rank 1 test?  Why, indeed?  I have done a LOT to reach that level 25 test. I have given a lot of love to the game to reach that point, so why isn't DE giving me any love back?

And I'm not asking for an easier test.  I'm just asking for a lower fail time-out period
 

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5 hours ago, Rastanari said:

As the level of Mastery Rank tests rises, so does the difficulty, which is all well and good.  My point is that from the 20+ level, haven't I, as a player, earned a little give-back from DE?  Why, if I am taking a level 25 Mastery Rank test, do I have to wait 24 hours for a failed test like a rookie would failing a Mastery Rank 1 test?  Why, indeed?  I have done a LOT to reach that level 25 test. I have given a lot of love to the game to reach that point, so why isn't DE giving me any love back?

Say you are an MR20 player who's just qualified for the MR21 test. And say you failed it. So what? What would be accessible to you after you pass the test that isn't right now? Extra 50 traces and a bit of extra daily syndicate standing are nice, but not really impactful. And the little number next to your glyph is really not something anyone should care about! The only thing an MR21 can do that an MR20 can't is to qualify for MR22! But to do that you'd need to gather another 100K mastery - and if you are levelling 30+ weapons in less than a day - then you are doing something wrong!

I could sort of understand the argument behind lowering the cooldown for the first couple of ranks (where higher MR actually unlocks things), but even that would only really impact alt accounts of veteran players - new players would not really know enough about the game yet to even notice it.

On the other hand, I would actually support raising that cooldown for higher-MR players, e.g. making it 24h + (1 hr per MR past MR20). By the time you reach higher MR, you should know where the "practice test" button is and that going into the test blind is not the smartest thing to do! Teaching you that is the main function of the MR9 test!

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For people who have actually advocated raising the fail time-out for the MR tests I have to say - respectfully - that is the exact "elitist" mind-set I am arguing against here.

The MR tests advance in difficulty as levels progress higher.  That is all well and good.  But as a player, each MR Rank I earned came at a material amount of time farming the components, items, resources, etc. that I needed to do to get to each next level.  Having put in all that time and effort and looking forward to advancing to the next MR level, why am I being penalized 24 hours if I fail an MR test?  And as I've progressed farther and farther into the game, why am I still being treated as a rookie with the same fail time-out as someone new to the game?

On a personal note, I think I created a few new curse-words I flung at DE when I failed a Mastery Rank test.  But I was not angry at actually failing the test (which I always practiced in advance) nor at the test itself.  I was angry because - after putting in all the time and effort to reach the test - I had to wait an unnecessary, artificially-defined 24 hours before attempting the test again.

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4 hours ago, Rastanari said:

why am I being penalized 24 hours if I fail an MR test?

Because you didn't practice for the test enough! Very few of the tests have any RNG in them. If you practice the test sufficiently and learn how to do it - then you will pass it on your first qualifying attempt.

4 hours ago, Rastanari said:

And as I've progressed farther and farther into the game, why am I still being treated as a rookie with the same fail time-out as someone new to the game?

That was my whole point - you shouldn't be. A rookie may not know what mastery tests are and where you can go practice them. As you progress " farther and farther into the game", you should learn what the Simaris corridor is for! So, actually, more advanced players have much less of an excuse to fail those tests!

4 hours ago, Rastanari said:

For people who have actually advocated raising the fail time-out for the MR tests I have to say - respectfully - that is the exact "elitist" mind-set I am arguing against here.

How is the idea of punishing higher-level players more than rookies "elitist"? They've been here longer, they should know better, they get fewer excuses!

An example of an actual "elitist" idea would be to say that we should punish "elite" players less than rookies for the same mistakes. Like, for example, giving them shorter timeouts for failing MR tests.

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On 2021-09-02 at 7:41 AM, (PSN)AccursedImmortal said:

MR time gating is in place to stop new players from rushing through the game. All free to play games have a time gate in gaining exp.

There are no time gates in place for leveling gear in Warframe, which is how Mastery Rank advancement happens.  Therefore, for Warframe, you are not correct saying "All free to play games have a time gate in gaining exp."  Because Warframe doesn't.

The only normal time gates in Warframe are for limiting how much rep a player can gain for any given Syndicate or other organization, or for such things as Focus.

My point on the 24-hour delay after failing a Mastery Rank test is that it's a very frustrating and - to me - insulting and unnecessary limit on my advancement as a player.  At higher Master Rank levels I have at that point spent a lot of time in the game.  And of course, since the Mastery Rank tests get more difficult as I advance I practice those tests.  So why am I penalized for a 24-hour waiting period if I fail a test because - despite practicing it - I slip up on one aspect or another?  I should not have to wait 24 hours

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb Rastanari:

My point on the 24-hour delay after failing a Mastery Rank test is that it's a very frustrating and - to me - insulting and unnecessary limit on my advancement as a player. 

You can do an infinite amount of trials before you do the actual test and even replay all of the already completed tests...

Just saying. It's basically like back in school, youa re supposed to do the learning BEFORE you take the actual test.

Having only to way 24 hours is just as little of a bother, as having to repeat a grade, when you are preparing and acing any test anyway.

Don't hate the game, hate the player!

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7 hours ago, Walkampf said:

You can do an infinite amount of trials before you do the actual test and even replay all of the already completed tests...

Just saying. It's basically like back in school, youa re supposed to do the learning BEFORE you take the actual test.

Having only to way 24 hours is just as little of a bother, as having to repeat a grade, when you are preparing and acing any test anyway.

Don't hate the game, hate the player!

This ignores the fact that bugs and disconnections still force the 24h timer onto you, regardless of the amount of practice done.
Some sort of reduction to the base would make more sense, like the aforementioned lowering by at least 1h so it matches the same reason Forma Blueprint craft times got changed.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 2021-09-10 at 7:18 AM, Walkampf said:

You can do an infinite amount of trials before you do the actual test and even replay all of the already completed tests...

Just saying. It's basically like back in school, youa re supposed to do the learning BEFORE you take the actual test.

Having only to way 24 hours is just as little of a bother, as having to repeat a grade, when you are preparing and acing any test anyway.

Don't hate the game, hate the player!

Respectfully, I think you are missing my point.  I daresay no one progresses past the MR 20+ test level without practicing first, possibly many times.

By the time players have advanced to the MR 20+ level of the game, the game should give something back.  Personally, after practicing some MR 20+ tests multiple times beforehand I failed a few of them because I slipped up when taking the actual test and was incredibly frustrated that I had to wait 24 hours before attempting the test again.

My point is to ask why is this 24-hour wait period in the game and can't DE reduce it for players who have put so much time and effort into the game already?

Your guidance to "Don't hate the game, hate the player" is about as irrelevant as can be for this topic.  I'm currently MR 30 and wouldn't have reached this point hating the game.  What I hate is the lack of DE giving a little something back to players like myself in the form of a reduced time-out for a failed MR test

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A) Pros and Cons:

What are the pros and cons of the Master Rank timer?

Pros

-Perceived delay of account boosters/sellers

-Perceived prestige of being skillful enough to complete the mastery test to earn the new rank.

Cons

-Adds additional stress to players, knowing that if they fail or if their game crashes they have to wait 24 hours to try again. This incetivizes more casual players to get fed up and not do the tests at all or it adds to the list of reasons as to why they should quit the game.

-Creates a superficial barrier to playing the game more. Delaying access to Mastery Rank restricted content, namely items. This really only affects new players, but potentially encourages them to stop playing the game when they would have kept playing.

 

B) Timers:

There are actualy 2 distinct timers here. A fail timer and a new rank timer.

 

1) Fail Timer

This should 100% be removed as it is pointless, as Rastanari already stated account boosters/sellers will not fail these tests.

Additionally I would say there is arguably zero prestige in passing any Mastery Test especially the lowest ranks.

It is very unlikely any players at the highest Mastery Rank will fail a Mastery Test,

The highest Mastery Rank is the only one I feel would potentially have any notable prestige tied to it.

Now imagine thinking that you are going to be one of the few highest Mastery Rank players, because there are so many others that were not skillful enough to beat the Mastery Test yet, but are sitting in an endless 24 hour fail timer due to their lack of skill. lol

Now realistically imagine thinking people should have a 24 hour penalization timer for failing a Mastery Test (potentially failing due to crashes or disconnects not under their control) for something that holds almost no meaning to anyone else.

As stated before the fail timer just incetivizes more casual players to get fed up and not do the tests at all or it adds to the list of reasons as to why they should quit the game.

I therefore believe 100% that there should not be a fail timer.

 

2) Next Mastery Rank Timer

a) Account Sellers / Boosters

Account sellers will simply bypass the next Mastery Rank timer by making multiple accounts. They aren't going to make any notable amount of money by selling a singular account they would need to be selling hundreds of them.

It's not like they have access to one account only finish the Mastery Rank 1 test and now have hit this permanent road block delaying them 24 hours and can't do anything else in the game, they will just make another account.

Having a delay does not deter account boosting it just makes it take longer, arguably making it more appealing. People want to boost their accounts because they are not interested in playing the "boring" early content of the game, they would rather pay money to have their account be ready for the end game content that they want to play.

So instead of being able to keep playing the game and level your Mastery Rank, you have to wait an arbitrary amount of time. The longer it takes to get to where the person wants their account to be and the less likely they will want to do it themself. Therefore they would rather pay someone else to do it for them or buy a "Character Boost" in games like WoW. 

b) Rank Up Time

There is so much content in Warframe that a new player will not be able to burn through it in a short period of time it will probably take months. If somebody is binge playing Warframe and quickly reaching new Mastery Ranks, why stop them? For the most part that will just dissincentivize them from continuing to play the game and potentially finding other interesting content early on that will drive them to continue playing the game. I know when I first started playing I thought "Oh great (sarcasm) now I have to wait 24 hours to keep playing the game, I guess I'll go play something else."

It takes days, if not weeks of playing the game leveling equpiment at the higher Mastery Ranks to gain enough Mastery Points to reach the next Mastery Rank Test. Nobody is ranking up Mastery Ranks faster than 24 hours in the high Mastery Ranks. If somebody is achieving that many Mastery Points that quickly I feel they deserve to be able rank up again.

The time investment to earn the Mastery Points along with the actual passing of the Mastery Rank Test should be more than sufficient to rank up.

I therefore believe that there should not be a timer for the next Mastery Rank either.

 

C) New Player Experience:

DE is presently planning to release a patch addressing the new player experience and this seems like an issue that should be addressed with it.

 

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It's unnecessary because you can already do infinite practice runs via a button when you select the mastery test rank up (Though it's in the bottom right and kind of obscure because the font is small). Don't attempt the real deal until you're confident you can beat it from your practice rounds. I also agree that if anything you should give more leeway to low MR players, not high ones.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2021-11-10 at 11:04 PM, (NSW)randomoddguy said:

It's unnecessary because you can already do infinite practice runs via a button when you select the mastery test rank up (Though it's in the bottom right and kind of obscure because the font is small). 

Didn't even realize this was a thing, much less that it would be necessary given that they never tell you that you'll be locked out of progression for 24 hours if for whatever reason you don't do it the first time. Took some ok weapons into the test just because they were fun and I wanted to use them at MR7 and failed because I didn't realize that a) there was a timer and b) that it was that big of a deal if you did fail. They're so simple after all. Was like "Oh, let me put on some decent weapons and jump back in then so I can get this done and move on to what I was really trying to do..." Only to find, "Just kidding. See you at 10pm tomorrow."

Edited by whyimnot
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On 2021-08-24 at 11:04 AM, Rastanari said:

Players give Warframe a lot of time and effort required to advance in Mastery Ranks.  I have long felt the game should give players something back.

1/ While personally I do not like the Mastery Rank test system, it is not the tests themselves I dislike, but rather the 24-hour time-out period for failing a Mastery Rank test.  For me, the most frustrating thing about failing the test is not the fail itself, but having to wait 24 hours before trying again.

I would like to suggest that - starting with the Mastery Rank 7 test - 1 hour is cut off the MR test fail wait time per Mastery Level, down to a minimum wait time of 1 hour at the Mastery Rank 30 test.

Players who reach Mastery Ranks 20, 25, 30 and beyond have already put a substantial amount of time and effort into the game and should not have to wait 24 hours to re-take a failed Mastery Rank test.

2/ To me, players who have put that much time and effort into the game deserve some form of give-back from DE and one deserving response would be a lowered MR test fail wait time.

1/ You dont like to wait 1 DAY... for someone who play warframe more than during 2 years and half (more than 900 DAYS)... for 1 single DAY.

What a killing frustation ! 🤣 Like a founder told me one day : YOU failed, your fault; there is a very simple solution : DO NOT FAIL.

2/ a Player deserve some give-back...🙄  and there already ARE : You have a beautiful game with a lot of Update, a Team which really take in account the communauty, lot of free stuff in daily login, lot of thing at MR30 (You should know well) ... and I could keep this all night...😝

I'm against reducing the timer and My FOUR-THOUSANDS-HOURS of investement DESERVE to be heard ! JUST NO REDUCTION ! 🤪

Am I trolling ? perhaps / Am I a jerk ? Worst, I'm french (et breton en plus...)

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