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Should we have Physical Damage 2.0?


_Schokolade_
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Because of how its universal that Slash is king maybe we should revamp Physical damage.

so instead of the current Impact and Puncture

we change it to Impact still staggers to and at a stack of 10 impact the target is knocked down in addition Impact status effect does constant damage to shields like slash

we change puncture proc to permanently reduce enemy armor by a static number like 20 and it can bypass shields at 75% reduced damage. (aka perfect for corpus robots or any enemy with shields and armor)

The we come to the nice part combo physical damage:

Spiked (Puncture + Slash) Slows enemy by 1% (max 10%)

Concussed (Impact + Puncture) Reduces Enemy Damage and Accuracy by 3% (max 30%) (10 stacks blinds enemy for 2 seconds)

Shocked (Impact + Slash) Cancels enemies current action (If an enemy is shooting it forces them to reload. If they are casting an ability it ends the ability and puts it on cooldown. A melee attack is instantly parried) (10 Stacks opens enemy to finishers)

(obviously this would not instantly combine all current weapons physical damage and can only be done by modding)

just ideas for more variation in WF

 

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Physical elements already do their jobs super well.

Slash deals true damage and can section bodies (useful for Nekros)

Puncture lowers enemy damage dealt (useful when everything in later content can basically oneshot you normally) and can sometimes section bodies (again, Nekros time)0

Impact causes stagger, which can mass-proc.

Also, the inherent ability of element combination removes their source damage, and the way the game treats elements on weapons is that they are automatically combined anyways.

Spiked is virtually worthless, as taking shots slower doesn't stop them from doing truckloads of damage, plus it would cancel out the effect of Slash's true damage, making it useless.

Accuracy isn't exactly a stat that matters much either, proven by our own weapons, because a lot of enemies are already inherently pretty inaccurate, and the inaccuracy penalties are slightly hindersome for a majority of weapons, only sort of noticeable for a chunk more, and barely noticeable if even present on the rest.

Stun already cancels an enemy's action, not to mention non-impact hits can still trigger hitstun, making it an unecessary overkill, especially since enemies have the habit of being broken out of certain statuses when taking damage. (most notably sleep)

If physical damage gets reworked to have combined statuses like elements, it'd have to be something that will actually shake up the meta compared to its originals, otherwise you're just nerfing every single weapon that has more than one damage type because they'll inherently lose access to the physical statuses they had before.

Also the main reason slash is king is because statuses stack now.

Edited by Flannoit
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Or retooling armour in one of a variety of ways so that it becomes a little less important, to the point that Slash becomes more of a "nice to have" than a "must have" and elements like Puncture, Corrosive, and Radiation can more consistently do what they're intended: bust through armour.

I think Impact is in a good spot: it has Hemorrhage mods and if we are to take armour down a notch or twelve, does well against shields with a functional CC that also boosts Parazon stuff (not the greatest thing but at least that benefit remains constant through levels, and that's more a knock on the Parazon than Impact status). I think, if we were to boost that (and, FWIW, boost Magnetic too), it may be worthwhile to give them shield regen disabling properties, same way anti-armour elements bypass a percentage of the target's armour. It's subtle, but it's something.

Puncture does need something a little bit more. Lowering incoming damage is great up to a point but falls off quickly past that, when enemy damage becomes so great that your objective is to not get hit at all. It's not bad but the other IPS procs don't have the same "became useless because enemy levels got too high" problem. Plenty of suggestions exist for that, e.g. "armour-bypassing Sonar-like weakpoints on proc".

Moreover, I think we already have too many elemental procs. Literally, Concussed is Blast Lite, and players avoid Blast pretty hard. Adding more procs whose usefulness is debatable, when we already have a number of questionable procs, probably isn't the best time investment.

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There is no need for a physical damage rework right now. If anything blast and magnetic could use a slight buff/change with how they are pretty much useless right now. The bonus damage to shields is the main thing magnetic has because shield drones nullify the shield regen debuff.

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We are already on Damage 2.0 and have been since 2013.

2 hours ago, _Schokolade_ said:

we change it to Impact still staggers to and at a stack of 10 impact the target is knocked down

Blast proc used to knock down enemies and people hated it so much that they changed it (now it reduces enemy accuracy). I doubt they'd bring it back.

2 hours ago, _Schokolade_ said:

in addition Impact status effect does constant damage to shields like slash

Slash already deals constant damage to shields. There'd be no distinction.

2 hours ago, _Schokolade_ said:

we change puncture proc to permanently reduce enemy armor by a static number like 20

We already have Corrosive and Heat that reduce enemy armour.

2 hours ago, _Schokolade_ said:

and it can bypass shields at 75% reduced damage. (aka perfect for corpus robots or any enemy with shields and armor)

Puncture is supposed to be bad against shielded enemies. Also, there aren't many enemies with shields and armour aside from Oxium Ospreys, Bursas, and bosses (the latter of which are often immune to all statuses).

2 hours ago, _Schokolade_ said:

The we come to the nice part combo physical damage:

I think this is really not going to work out well. Most weapons have Impact, Puncture, and Slash damage, so they're all going to deal "Concussed" (Impact+Puncture) damage because it's difficult or impossible to change the order of innate elements. This also means you'll never see Impact or Puncture procs because it'll all be "Concussed".

2 hours ago, _Schokolade_ said:

(obviously this would not instantly combine all current weapons physical damage and can only be done by modding)

Then I think DE would have to really overhaul the modding system on the back end, because that's not how it works right now.

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Yes we should. The only physical damage considered worth it is slash because its proc ignores armor. Puncture is ok, but its proc ain't doing you any favors and if its not pared with any elements your on your own. Impact is only useful in a handful of situations, sure its good against shields but its proc is totally pointless due to the core mechanic of parazon kills.

Sure you could use impact and parazon kill an enemy easier, but within the time the animation takes you could've melted the guy 10x over. Like brozime said their health ratio for making parazon kills viable is 100%, or 0%, not 100 to 0, either 100, or 0. Anthing in between and its easier to melt them with flat out damage.

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Impact and Puncture are utility oriented status effects, and Slash is pure damage. In a game where the overwhelming majority of people only care about killing enemies quickly, it makes sense Slash would be the dominant choice.

Your suggestion doesn't change this, and realistically, there's nothing DE can do about this other than just going down to 1 physical damage type and leaving utility to Warframes themselves or tied to specific weapons; as well as reworking enemy armor and how it scales, as slash for a lot of weapons is mandatory to kill armored units after a point and is why anytime DE makes an enemy immune to armor removal and status effects a lot of weapons pretty much do no damage.

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