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Faction mods need a rework.


PhenonIV
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Concerns primed faction mods and why they are a bad design decision. 

Alright, I am not the first one to say it. Faction mods have been a pain in my side for a very long time. They are strong, especially with DoT builds with their mechanic to essentially multiply damage. Even though I know that a good weapon with a primed faction mod has incredible potential, I am just not doing it because of the design decision. Even if you don't buy the infested mods because lets be real, we don't even see a difference between normal and steel path infested missions so why even bother with faction mods. Even so, that would be 3 faction mods per weapon category which would be 12 faction mods, 16 when you add infested mods. 16 prime mods. Its just an incredibly bad design decision to have us buy 16 different prime mods and max them all out that all serve one purpose. You could just only buy the grineer and corrupted mods but even then, why would I? My kuva nukor already slaps with arcane avenger and combat discipline on my wisp. I don't want to buy, level and slot 4 prime mods per category that essentially do the same thing. 

It is not only the fact that they are prime mods, that does make it worse because of the ducats cost and baro RNG but its also the problem of having to manually swap the mods each time I want to use it against a different enemy type. Its not fluent and it just does not work, I like the idea to make them a progression item instead where you can have one per category that works for each faction depending on how many of that enemy's type you have slain. They could be the same as riven challenges where you would need to equip it on your gun and it indicates how many enemy's of each faction you need to defeat in order to progress it by a level until it becomes maxed out. This should be hard but rewarding and you would need to get a normal R0 faction mod (they would then be universal) that drops from some type of dungeon or raid and is incredibly hard to get but is not determined by a drop chance. 

And yes about what I stated above, I know that when you make it a hybrid mod that it would become the most mandatory mod in the game. Even worse so than crit stats and multishot. I don't think it is a bad thing if they would make it a separate mod slot. It would become a progression for your weapon, a type of upgrade that will see it substantially increase in power but you can't just endo it all the way up. This would look a lot like the riven mod system but only the stats on the mod aren't randomized and the effectiveness won't be determined by how many players love the weapon but how much you love the weapon. It has to be progression by playing and not by farming which would give an incentive towards playing with your favorite weapons to slowly make them stronger. They would need to make its final version less potent than the primed mods are now. They would also need to be hard to max out. Levels should be like the endo system is now and not a linear amount per level. It should be a mod personal to that weapon, which grows more potent the more enemy's you defeat but not change it into rivens with a randomized stat system and potency dependent on how many players happen to like your gun. 

It would be a cool way to show your friends how many hours you have played with that weapon and like "wow dude your lenz as an R9 expel mod? mine is only R6" Something like that would be really cool so see. Feel free to change or evolve this idea but the baseline should be:

Faction mods should be change into universal mods, or at least changed into one mod per faction that works on all weapon types.  

It could be tied into the weapons itself, with a separate mod slot and a long progression system to increase its potency. 

When tied into the weapon, it should be dependent on kills per faction for each weapon with progression incentivising playtime and specific enemy kills over items with a set drop chance to upgrade it. 

It should not be implemented the same as rivens. That is: progression should be individual and not be determined by the overall playerbase and stats should not be randomized but a multiplier on all factions, the same as the individual prime mods are right now. 

Its potency should be shaved down massively compared to the primed mods and not be "mandatory" to have leveled up to be able to kill high level enemy's or to do high level content. 

 

Level 12 Lobster added to this; "They really need to make them a progression system instead. You get the mods, max them and then you can combine them into one holy perfecta rank 0 mod. Just have 1 mod for all factions for each type of primary, shotgun,pistol and melee" 

 

 

Edited by PhenonIV
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it's sorta like Primed Point Blank or Primed Pressure Point. those aren't really worth having at all really, and are a big cost for not much, but people use them anyways.

Anti-Faction Mods are hyper specialization for hyper Damage.
if you don't want hyper Damage, then we're done here. do you also not pick Damage Type combinations based on the Missions you're going into? you can still Kill Enemies if you don't, so why bother with having that in the game either, right?

12 minutes ago, PhenonIV said:

Its potency should be shaved down massively compared to the primed mods and not be "mandatory" to have leveled up to be able to kill high level enemy's or to do high level content. 

Anti-Faction Mods are in no way mandatory to Kill things. if they are in your eyes, it's not the fault of the Mods.

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I disagree. 

People should change their arsenal according to faction. 

Mods are a part of the games progression system. You're literally not meant to have them all at once maxed.

None of this should be implemented at all. This is why the people employed by the game company make decisions and not every random thing people come up with. Kill per faction? The game already leans heavily toward grineer...

 

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2 hours ago, PhenonIV said:

Concerns primed faction mods and why they are a bad design decision. 

Alright, I am not the first one to say it. Faction mods have been a pain in my side for a very long time. They are strong, especially with DoT builds with their mechanic to essentially multiply damage. Even though I know that a good weapon with a primed faction mod has incredible potential, I am just not doing it because of the design decision. Even if you don't buy the infested mods because lets be real, we don't even see a difference between normal and steel path infested missions so why even bother with faction mods. Even so, that would be 3 faction mods per weapon category which would be 12 faction mods, 16 when you add infested mods. 16 prime mods. Its just an incredibly bad design decision to have us buy 16 different prime mods and max them all out that all serve one purpose. You could just only buy the grineer and corrupted mods but even then, why would I? My kuva nukor already slaps with arcane avenger and combat discipline on my wisp. I don't want to buy, level and slot 4 prime mods per category that essentially do the same thing. 

It is not only the fact that they are prime mods, that does make it worse because of the ducats cost and baro RNG but its also the problem of having to manually swap the mods each time I want to use it against a different enemy type. Its not fluent and it just does not work, I like the idea to make them a progression item instead where you can have one per category that works for each faction depending on how many of that enemy's type you have slain. They could be the same as riven challenges where you would need to equip it on your gun and it indicates how many enemy's of each faction you need to defeat in order to progress it by a level until it becomes maxed out. This should be hard but rewarding and you would need to get a normal R0 faction mod (they would then be universal) that drops from some type of dungeon or raid and is incredibly hard to get but is not determined by a drop chance. 

And yes about what I stated above, I know that when you make it a hybrid mod that it would become the most mandatory mod in the game. Even worse so than crit stats and multishot. I don't think it is a bad thing if they would make it a separate mod slot. It would become a progression for your weapon, a type of upgrade that will see it substantially increase in power but you can't just endo it all the way up. This would look a lot like the riven mod system but only the stats on the mod aren't randomized and the effectiveness won't be determined by how many players love the weapon but how much you love the weapon. It has to be progression by playing and not by farming which would give an incentive towards playing with your favorite weapons to slowly make them stronger. They would need to make its final version less potent than the primed mods are now. They would also need to be hard to max out. Levels should be like the endo system is now and not a linear amount per level. It should be a mod personal to that weapon, which grows more potent the more enemy's you defeat but not change it into rivens with a randomized stat system and potency dependent on how many players happen to like your gun. 

It would be a cool way to show your friends how many hours you have played with that weapon and like "wow dude your lenz as an R9 expel mod? mine is only R6" Something like that would be really cool so see. Feel free to change or evolve this idea but the baseline should be:

Faction mods should be change into universal mods, or at least changed into one mod per faction that works on all weapon types.  

It could be tied into the weapons itself, with a separate mod slot and a long progression system to increase its potency. 

When tied into the weapon, it should be dependent on kills per faction for each weapon with progression incentivising playtime and specific enemy kills over items with a set drop chance to upgrade it. 

It should not be implemented the same as rivens. That is: progression should be individual and not be determined by the overall playerbase and stats should not be randomized but a multiplier on all factions, the same as the individual prime mods are right now. 

Its potency should be shaved down massively compared to the primed mods and not be "mandatory" to have leveled up to be able to kill high level enemy's or to do high level content. 

 

Level 12 Lobster added to this; "They really need to make them a progression system instead. You get the mods, max them and then you can combine them into one holy perfecta rank 0 mod. Just have 1 mod for all factions for each type of primary, shotgun,pistol and melee" 

 

 

loba is thick

 

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2 hours ago, taiiat said:

Anti-Faction Mods are in no way mandatory to Kill things. if they are in your eyes, it's not the fault of the Mods.

I meant that my version of the mod should not be mandatory. I understand the niche of the faction mods and why they exist. My siderant about making them universal and tying them directly to the weapon was just an idea but the most important part was initially that I do not condone the decision to have 4 different mods for one faction, all for a different damage type. I understand it with seration and all the other mods, since we have primed point blank but no primed seration. I just don't get it why we need to have the same prime mod for 4 different weapon types and then also have that for 4 different factions.

It not necessary to have them all. 

Most weapons can kill easily without. 

It is niche only for specific setup or circumstances. 

that does not mean we have to buy, level and build the same mod 4 times over. I understand it for different factions its a different mod but why can't I use my 30K endo for an expel pistol mod on my shotgun when I wish to do so once in a full moon? 

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4 hours ago, PhenonIV said:

I meant that my version of the mod should not be mandatory. I understand the niche of the faction mods and why they exist. My siderant about making them universal and tying them directly to the weapon was just an idea but the most important part was initially that I do not condone the decision to have 4 different mods for one faction, all for a different damage type. I understand it with seration and all the other mods, since we have primed point blank but no primed seration. I just don't get it why we need to have the same prime mod for 4 different weapon types and then also have that for 4 different factions.

It not necessary to have them all. 

Most weapons can kill easily without. 

It is niche only for specific setup or circumstances. 

that does not mean we have to buy, level and build the same mod 4 times over. I understand it for different factions its a different mod but why can't I use my 30K endo for an expel pistol mod on my shotgun when I wish to do so once in a full moon? 

It doesn't matter what you condone lol. You want something changed simply because you're tired of farming to max mods. Everyone else has done it so you can too.

If it's not necessary then don't use them and move on. But if you want the benefit that mod provides then work for it or farm plat to buy it maxed.

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It's funny how the damage bonus surplus from Galvanized mods and weapon arcanes has brought this topic out of the woodwork.  I've seen three of these threads this week and I don't think I'd seen three in three years before.

What's really weird is it's not like enemies have gotten harder to kill.  Exactly the opposite, really, for all but pure melee and maybe the worst of the worst ranged weapons.  But suddenly bane mods are mandatory, wtf.

 

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2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

It's funny how the damage bonus surplus from Galvanized mods and weapon arcanes has brought this topic out of the woodwork.  I've seen three of these threads this week and I don't think I'd seen three in three years before.

What's really weird is it's not like enemies have gotten harder to kill.  Exactly the opposite, really, for all but pure melee and maybe the worst of the worst ranged weapons.  But suddenly bane mods are mandatory, wtf.

 

I was just thinking it was weird while reading through this one, as I too have seen at least one other topic about bane mods, when I can’t recall the last time it came up otherwise. It’s not because of some sort of Youtuber pointing something out…?

Regarding the topic; I can understand that there’s almost needless complexity regarding the mods and how many there are for the different factions, but outside of some sort of categorization system, I don’t think it’s a problem keeping track of what’s available to equip and what’s equipped. I wouldn’t say “no” if it was a little easier, but a whole new system designed to streamline what seems a relatively minor problem I think isn’t quite warranted.

I wouldn’t mind it being easier to rank up prime bane mods, but I’m not pressured since I’ve already somehow ended up with standard bane mods as I’ve played through, and they’re suiting me fine so far, and that “Out of reach”ness of prime bane mods sort of makes them feel a little more valuable once I eventually get hold of them

edit: 🤔 After some thought, I do like the idea of progression tied to enemies killed. Potentially a sort of “Collect their essence to learn more about how to defeat them”. I enjoy scanning things and studying them with the Codex, so that might be cool as an alternative to just shoving endo and credits into them (though I think that would make them the only mods to work in a different way)

double edit: Hmm. Though would it add much… Maybe some sort of interaction with the codex and the mod. I don’t know about making it really hard to max; wasn’t one of the problem points about how much it takes to rank the prime bane mod?

Edited by (NSW)Greybones
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10 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I was just thinking it was weird while reading through this one, as I too have seen at least one other topic about bane mods, when I can’t recall the last time it came up otherwise. It’s not because of some sort of Youtuber pointing something out…?

Probably?  I only rarely pay attention to the content providers.

In any case, I'm sure the root cause, whether players are doing it on their own or following what people are telling them is that galvanized mods and arcanes have made people drop Serration and/or Heavy Caliber and their equivalents.  Faction mods are the #1 or #2 most obvious thing to go into one of those slots.

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