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Please buff single target guns


grvy.23
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I tried guns which are single target non aoe and automatic fire like the Kuva Karak and Tenet Diplos (put 5 forma) but cannot get them to be anywhere near as good as the Kuva Zarr And Tenet Envoy. On steel path the latter guns are fine no problem with them at all, but auto fire guns are too slow and don’t feel great and this is noticeable in survival missions.  Thanks for your time.

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have you been doing arbitrations and steel path? that's where you can get the Galvanized mods and weapon Arcanes that greatly help single target guns become much more effective even in steel path. most people agree that while not perfect, they improve bullet guns a LOT, and most of the higher tier non-AOE weapons are now viable. 

Edited by (PSN)robotwars7
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@grvy.23

Spoiler

DE doesn't read General Discussion.

Maybe they should just buff Lato too while they're at it?

 

... Seriously, the game already provides ways of getting those weapons more effective in Steel Path than what they already are...

Spoiler

Here come the zealots of "Rifles suck. Give AoE arcanes restricted for them now!" from out of the closet.

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DE for what ever reason likes giving rifle like weapons poor stat increases. K-Karak was added not long ago, and then there's the recent Ambassador.

Although, you can still kill enemies in SP using them with the proper loadout. I've used K-Karak and Supra-V in SP. Even if they could nearly instantly kill enemies, they won't compete with aoe weapons or abilities. Especially not when they have varying downtimes [time spent reloading vs time spent dealing damage] that are longer than some weapons that are better at single target and have aoe.

15 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

 

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DE doesn't read General Discussion.

 

Spoiler

I wonder how DE can respond to things posted on GD while never reading GD.

This should be in feedback, but not for the purpose of getting DE's attention, given this issue is posted there a million times with no change.

 

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1 hour ago, grvy.23 said:

I tried guns which are single target non aoe and automatic fire like the Kuva Karak and Tenet Diplos (put 5 forma) but cannot get them to be anywhere near as good as the Kuva Zarr And Tenet Envoy. On steel path the latter guns are fine no problem with them at all, but auto fire guns are too slow and don’t feel great and this is noticeable in survival missions.  Thanks for your time.

Google overframe
And enjoy

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Single target weapons would need cone punch-through or kuva nukor ricochet to compete with aoe weapons. A baseline punch-through would be a nice start on every single-target weapon that doesn't get interfered by it.

I really like assault rifles, but slapping on knockdown immunity and going apeS#&$ with an aoe weapon is much more efficient. RIP regular bows and snipers though.

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yeah, sadly this is why the community came up with the term "fodder weapons"

not all weapons are created equally. and i don't think DE have any motivation whatsoever to balance all of them.
some weapons you forma 9 times, love, and put next to your pillow when you sleep. some you throw into the mr fodder and forget about it.

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4 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

have you been doing arbitrations and steel path? that's where you can get the Galvanized mods and weapon Arcanes that greatly help single target guns become much more effective even in steel path. most people agree that while not perfect, they improve bullet guns a LOT, and most of the higher tier non-AOE weapons are now viable. 

The existence of Galvanized mods are one of the major reasons I rebuilt my main kitgun as a Rattleguts pistol. (That and Vermisplicer is super glitchy as a pistol...)

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14 hours ago, Soy77 said:

yeah, sadly this is why the community came up with the term "fodder weapons"

not all weapons are created equally. and i don't think DE have any motivation whatsoever to balance all of them.
some weapons you forma 9 times, love, and put next to your pillow when you sleep. some you throw into the mr fodder and forget about it.

The community didn't come up with anything. Fodder weapons have been in many games for quite some time.

Progress is a part of life in all facets.

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6 hours ago, (PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO said:

Players: Please buff single target guns

DE: Ok we listened, nerfs to AOE weapons will arrive soon.

I mean... you can clear Steel Path by minimap aiming with the Kuva Bramma.  If the infamous "clear steel path by holding W and mashing E" video was enough to bring about some melee nerfs, I would not be surprised if DE were dissatisfied with the current state of AOE weapons. 

 

I really wonder what they were thinking when they added the Primed Firestorm/Fulmination mods.

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1 hour ago, elmetnuter said:

If you underestimate the use of fire rare, galvanized mods, and punch through, single target weapons will always suck.

The problem of Fire Rate is that it affects the kill speed, but not the kill efficiency.

If a full auto gun needs 5-10 bullets to down a heavy, all a fire rate will do is make it do that slightly faster, with the possibility of wasted rounds being fired because most people can't hold and release a trigger fast enough to stop wasted bullets if the fire rate is high enough. Fire rate also doesn't help Semi-auto or Burst weapons that much because it is solely bound by how fast the player can pull the trigger, even then, the same issue is present, if I need 5 shots to kill a high-armor heavy having a higher fire rate won't make that number less, it only makes me hit that number faster.

Galvanized mods are a hot mess that help out powerful weapons just as much if not more than weak ones, why use a Galvanized suite on a single target weapon when an AoE one can get the same if not better statistical results AND hit things multiple times. Galvanized mods are just the new Riven mods in terms of excusing the weakness of other weapons, while simultaneously making the weapons that trivialize single-target weapons magnitudes stronger, only unlike Riven mods, Galvanized mods have no disposition to change.

As for Punch-through...most mods that give it take anywhere from 9 to 15 drain on weapons that by and long are already starving for mod capacity, Punch-through also requires enemies to be lined up almost perfectly which a solid portion of maps don't allow for very often, meanwhile AoE weapons don't even have to worry about modding for that which means they can just cram even more damage in since they don't need to waste an entire slot on the ability to MAYBE hit 2-3 enemies before something staggers them out of alignment.

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The only way to buff single target guns is to turn them into AoE guns. You can do this with gas damage or Marked for Death. MfD doesn't work against armor, but it is actually great against Corpus. Gas has a small AoE - best solution so far is a gas Daikyu and Ensnare to group enemies. It's actually extremely effective with headshots and primed bane mods. It's even more effective with more enemies, so it works well in Steel Path. It will never be faster than Bramma spamma, but that is the nature of the thing.

You can also use an AoE gun that works with your play style. Kuva Chakkhur is a good "single target AoE" gun since it focuses on headshots, especially at higher levels.

You can't fight reality - just use AoE solutions that work with a marksmanship play style, or whatever style you enjoy.

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9 hours ago, (PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO said:

Players: Please buff single target guns

DE: Ok we listened, nerfs to AOE weapons will arrive soon.

It would be great tbh, and I'm not being sarcastic here. AoE weapons are so overpowered and meta right now that they should be heavily nerfed in order for the game to have some semblance of balance in the choice of primary/secondary weapons.

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10 minutes ago, p_silveira said:

It would be great tbh, and I'm not being sarcastic here. AoE weapons are so overpowered and meta right now that they should be heavily nerfed in order for the game to have some semblance of balance in the choice of primary/secondary weapons.

Sadly, I agree.

As long as a rank 40 Kuva Bramma (or other comparable AoE weapons) has access to Galvanized mods and the new Arcanes no single target weapon will ever be able to be rated fairly when compared anyone/anything dumbfiring Bramma bolts all over the map.

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The only way to make single target weapons viable again is to kill Warframe's "Horde Shooter" gameplay. Enemy density needs a massive reduction across the board. Railjack do accomplish this with the ground enemies, but that was due to performance reason not gameplay reason. 

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