Jump to content

I know how to solve the aoe weapon meta!


 Share

Recommended Posts

I don't think this would change the meta much at all. Not using mods for knockback resist puts the knockback in your hands and it becomes more skill-based than build-based to avoid the knockback, and is one of the parts that make weapons like the bramma satisfying for me to use. The bramma is powerful even when it's causing knockback. Plus there are guaranteed ways to avoid knockback with weapons like that which also fit with the warframe meta (ability cast can prevent knockback entirely, I do it often with mirage who is one of brammas best friends). 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, SuperbDave said:

make knockdown resist not applying to self-applied effect. 

I would definitely think twice before I grab the bramma. 

 

 

This wouldn’t even slightly work. Most players don’t even have primed sure footed and get by with explosive weapons just fine.

Even if you stagger yourself on every single shot with the bramma, the clear speed will still be 3 or 4 times faster than a single target weapon.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 2 Minuten schrieb ReddyDisco:

Make more enemies that resist radial attacks, something like nox type mechanics where shooting weak spot kills em quick but general damage tickles it

And then you use the Tenet Envoy. You can do pinpoint faceshots even with HC. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Self knockdown and even self damage didn't prevent the aoe meta. All it did, and will do if brought back, is make it slightly less brain dead.

The game simply doesn't encourage the usage of single target damage while aoe damage is well beyond sufficient to destroy the tankiest units along with the rest of the room. We either need aoe directly nerfed or enemies redesigned to counter aoe effects.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont know why people is against aoe weapons. You can make a full squad of smg weapons in survival steel path and you will be super fine. PD: dont nerf bramma or ogris just make smg better

Edited by Danielw8
  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)Helverin said:

And then you use the Tenet Envoy. You can do pinpoint faceshots even with HC. 

Which you have to aim with crosshair, that's just like using any rifle at that point isn't it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

Make more enemies that resist radial attacks, something like nox type mechanics where shooting weak spot kills em quick but general damage tickles it

As far as I'm concerned this is the best solution because it keeps AOE weapons being viable against crowds and gives more reason to choose a single target weapon. I don't see a real downside. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, (XBOX)Helverin said:

Uhm.. Except the 8-12m 50k bleed explosion that likely happens it's like a rifle, yes. 

The problem with ur envoy theory is that yes the intial hit of envoy will kill the enemy when hit on weak spot the radial damage will just tickle the units around it so it becomes a single target in essence

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we need multiple minor things for it to work ,

1) Ammo restrictions - ammo drops for launcher type weapons to be very rare and mutation for it to be a lot less efficient,

2) Enemy changes -mechanical, stat as well as AI - to counter it, this is divided into more sections:

  • Specific enemies that have damage resistance to AOE
  • Specific enemies that can reflect AOE projectiles back to sender,
  • All enemies will try to stay away from each other to avoid being caught in the same blast.

3) AOE damage to be LOS so cover can actually be used.

 

Edited by 0_The_F00l
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Danielw8 said:

I dont know why people is against aoe weapons. You can make a full squad of smg weapons in survival steel path and you will be super fine. PD: dont nerf bramma or ogris just make smg better

because no amount of sophistication I put into my build clears normal missions faster than a bramma with prime sure footed and shooting myself at the feet. 

shouldnt a game encourage a sophisticated build instead of the lowest hanging fruit?

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah yes this will definitely stop kuva nukor, tenet cycron and the entirety of melee.

vor 18 Minuten schrieb SuperbDave:

because no amount of sophistication I put into my build clears normal missions faster than a bramma with prime sure footed and shooting myself at the feet. 

shouldnt a game encourage a sophisticated build instead of the lowest hanging fruit?

How is sophisticated is it really to try and push the square bit through the triangle shaped hole?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

How is sophisticated is it really to try and push the square bit through the triangle shaped hole?

Well no... it's more like this:

(AoE weapons are the square hole)

  • Like 14
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You get what was asked for: you guys wanted better weapons with better base stats. The kuva karak to the new tenet weapons are all better versions of some guns from the past. 

They gave you guys a fully upgraded arsenal now you're complaining because "we liked it too much", even though you know you can use whatever you want to actually kill, in typical casual fashion you now need the game to make the decision to nerf for you because no one has the imagination or willpower to simply not slot an aoe weapon or build better teams and arsenals. 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You get what was asked for: you guys wanted better weapons with better base stats. The kuva karak to the new tenet weapons are all better versions of some guns from the past. 

They gave you guys a fully upgraded arsenal now you're complaining because "we liked it too much", even though you know you can use whatever you want to actually kill, in typical casual fashion you now need the game to make the decision to nerf for you because no one has the imagination or willpower to simply not slot an aoe weapon or build better teams and arsenals. 

Please do not generalize , the community is not a hive mind , different people have different preferences and likes. It is not necessary that the same people that asked for stat changes are asking for these changes as well. Please have a discussion with the actual point at hand , not against any individual or community if you want to be taken seriously. Try to come up with a solution if there is a problem , don't try to cause more problems by creating further divisions and controversy.

The fact that anyone can use anything is true , the problem arises when one section of the community wants to play a certain way that is different from the rest of the community. Warframe has no rules that says one has to play a certain way in mission (with a few minor exceptions), nor is there any "session zero" concept that decides on your play through or different lobbies with different restrictions. You can definitely form a squad or run solo so you can mitigate this , but it is not always preferable and is definitely not convenient.

One of  the main reasons i mostly play solo, the fact that playing solo in a multiplayer game is more enjoyable to me is a problem by itself , but add to the fact that it reduces engagement with players that may (or may not) have benefited from my experience , assistance and game knowledge will just make these players less and less inclined to play cause they wanted to enjoy the social experience.

I can control my actions , but it is foolish to expect others to do the same.

  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is easily achievable by nerfing dmg of AOE weapons by at least 50%. This way an AOE weapon is still viable when it hits 2 or more enemies and single target weapons would shine with strong enemies and boss fights.

Maybe re-organize primary and secondary in AOE and non-AOE (or call AOE weapons heavy weapons and non-aoe precision), so that we can have both in the same loadouts. To be honest, I never use any secondary weapons for damage anyways. This spot is reserved for Nukor or Epitaph as primers for CO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

vor 17 Stunden schrieb rapt0rman:

Well no... it's more like this:

(AoE weapons are the square hole)

An excellent video. I think it really fits warframe. There is the saying 'if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem starts looking like a nail'. Warframe is the flipside of that, every problem is a nail so of course the hammer is going to be the best tool (generalizing here) Many missions we have are extremely simple and almost all enemies are fodder enemies and imo that's the actual problem. The importance of enemy drops instead of mission rewards does not help there either.

Edited by Drachnyn
typo
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought the problem is the melee meta and it needs further nerfing to promote gunplay.

Wait...maybe both aoe and melee are good because those are good damage on multiple targets in a horde shooter? Hmm that would explain why chain-beam weapons are also popular. I'm seeing a pattern here.

The conclusion is that only single-target weapons are bad, because those are single-target weapons. However aoe outshines melee at the moment, I still think single-target weapons need buffs in either their own mechanics, or the previously suggested "more enemies like nox" instead of bringing the better methods down to single-target level by nerfs.

Melee/aoe are simply better suited for general gameplay and as long as you don't need precision, melee/aoe is the efficient way. You can start digging with a knife, but it's easier with a shovel.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...