[PLEASE] Forum Reputation Removal

[p_silveira]

Tbh I love the fact that they removed Reputation points from being visible on the threads themselves. I'm in here to see the actual arguments and points someone puts through, not who they are. Reputation points only add a "do you know who I am" to discussions, which don't help in any way at all, and can lead to people dismissing actual good points of someone who is new in the forums only because someone who farmed Reputation previously dissed out some bs argument and many people will take their side because they have a huge Reputation point count under their names.

[LillyRaccune]

 On the surface, the original post appears to accuse players with lots of reputation to be bad people. It sounds like when players request "remove MR because high MR players look down on the average player", mastery rank does not justify player superiority and neither does reputation. Reputation points does not serve as an elitist club, it has a purpose.

There's lots of times that I agree with a comment, so I upvote it. Should I simply quote or reiterate every comment that I support? If there's a player that has a "reputation" of a lot of players agreeing with them, I am more inclined to listen to them if they publicly disagree or reprove me.

8 hours ago, str4dlin said:

So remove reputation system but keep upvoting answers system.

This would enable "post upvote farming" instead, there are a number of very vocal, toxic players that keep posting their unpopular ideas. I call them toxic because (in the past) they have been revealed to using alternate accounts to harass players.

If you want to remove player reputation points, you should suggest an alternative.

9 hours ago, str4dlin said:

I hope that 80% of the forum disagrees and thus know that I am right.

That is a snobbish and narrowminded thing to say. Everyone gets a voice, enjoy your time in the community.

[str4dlin]

hace 4 horas, LillyRaccune dijo:

 On the surface, the original post appears to accuse players with lots of reputation to be bad people. It sounds like when players request "remove MR because high MR players look down on the average player", mastery rank does not justify player superiority and neither does reputation. Reputation points does not serve as an elitist club, it has a purpose.

There's lots of times that I agree with a comment, so I upvote it. Should I simply quote or reiterate every comment that I support? If there's a player that has a "reputation" of a lot of players agreeing with them, I am more inclined to listen to them if they publicly disagree or reprove me.

This would enable "post upvote farming" instead, there are a number of very vocal, toxic players that keep posting their unpopular ideas. I call them toxic because (in the past) they have been revealed to using alternate accounts to harass players.

If you want to remove player reputation points, you should suggest an alternative.

That is a snobbish and narrowminded thing to say. Everyone gets a voice, enjoy your time in the community.

Hey @LiliRaccune thanks for your answer.

I don't say players with high reputation are bad people. Exactly what I want is to remove "tags" precisely, so is the opposite of what I think. I think bad people is bad people.

I try to give my point of view to what you say. 
About MR:
For me? Remove MR also :D is the true and also I ve thought about it time ago. And Im top MR. I would love to return the old old old conclave value, based on equipment. Most of players don't know it existed. But it is offtopic and my opinion. Just to know.

About this phrase I want to talk " If there's a player that has a "reputation" of a lot of players agreeing with them, I am more inclined to listen to them if they publicly disagree or reprove me.".  It is not fair to a new player, for example, who can bring a good opinion. The trend problem is real, not just here. These behaviors also, if you are interested, are reason for study. They are called cognitive biases and they condition us to make decisions. If you transfer it to real life or want to be more precise. And they are the opposite of critical thinking. Which is a necessity both in a forum and in the evolution of the human. And here we are not going to talk about the second part :)
But for me it is a mistake if you look that way and look differently due to the fact of having accumulated a reputation.

"If you want to remove player reputation points, you should suggest an alternative."
Here I don't know what you mean. Alternative to what? What reputation offers at the end? 

"That is a snobbish and narrowminded thing to say. Everyone gets a voice, enjoy your time in the community."
The phrase I said is because it is obvious that if I said there are mostly here people farming rep they are going to be opposed to someone saying to remove it. I don't know what you feel it is snobbish or narrowminded when treating everyone as the same is the most open minded way to go. You are upset if you say that everyone has a voice but you listen to them differently based on their reputation. For me this is what could be considered snobbish and narrowminded.

Thanks Lili. Cheers.

[Uhkretor]

Spoiler

(On-Topic at the end)

Look, I'm going to be honest and start with an off-topic point right off the bat...

On 2021-08-31 at 3:50 PM, str4dlin said:

I would like you read the entire conversation with that user, The part where I treat him with all my respect 

(...)

 

The part where he insults me (he literally say he is insulting me)(look for the post please, it is so long, and read the last phrase he said "with only the mildest of insult meant, it really does sound like a 'you' problem"

... I took the trouble of reading that thread from top to bottom... What I saw from it, besides the actual discussion of it (which I chose not to say anything back then because I knew you were going to snap at me, because my companions do not die in Steel Path and, apparently, that's touchy for some people) was you going completely mental on someone because said someone, doesn't matter who, simply said

Quote

it really does sound like a 'you' problem"

... At first, I thought it was me because I make people snap with my posts and a small minority actually snaps simply with my presence in their threads. I can literally post a "blank post" and they will simply snap at me just because I posted there (Perfect user examples: Polarbear911 and (PSN)Hopper_Orouk)...

... But I don't have 7k reputation so~ I took the trouble of reading it from top to bottom.

All that I've mentioned ^there^ was my view of that particular thread, which is my opinion and there is no useful debate to add to either that thread or to change my opinion about what I saw there... So, don't even try do it...

... Just don't, seriously. Save your time for something that can actually be affected by your efforts.

 

Now, On-Topic:

... I don't see the use for reputation. It represents nothing to me... But I don't see reputation as either an incentive for, or deterrent to, farming reputation points. If forum users want to be clowns, they will BE clowns independently of reputation being there or not...

From all the things that reputation is causing right now, I can clearly see that its causing excessive noise over something that has absolutely no importance to anything, anywhere, in the Forum.

[str4dlin]

hace 55 minutos, Uhkretor dijo:

  Ocultar contenido

(On-Topic at the end)

Look, I'm going to be honest and start with an off-topic point right off the bat...

... I took the trouble of reading that thread from top to bottom... What I saw from it, besides the actual discussion of it (which I chose not to say anything back then because I knew you were going to snap at me, because my companions do not die in Steel Path and, apparently, that's touchy for some people) was you going completely mental on someone because said someone, doesn't matter who, simply said

... At first, I thought it was me because I make people snap with my posts and a small minority actually snaps simply with my presence in their threads. I can literally post a "blank post" and they will simply snap at me just because I posted there (Perfect user example: Polarbear911)...

... But I don't have 7k reputation so~ I took the trouble of reading it from top to bottom.

All that I've mentioned ^there^ was my view of that particular thread, which is my opinion and there is no useful debate to add to either that thread or to change my opinion about what I saw there... So, don't even try do it...

... Just don't, seriously. Save your time for something that can actually be affected by your efforts.

 

Now, On-Topic:

... I don't see the use for reputation. It represents nothing to me... But I don't see reputation as either an incentive for, or deterrent to, farming reputation points. If forum users want to be clowns, they will BE clowns independently of reputation being there or not...

From all the things that reputation is causing right now, I can clearly see that its causing excessive noise over something that has absolutely no importance to anything, anywhere, in the Forum.

Hey @Uhkretorthanks for taking your time to read and answer.

I will try to give my opinion about your comment. 
First the off-topic part. Is not only that phrase. Is a problem of attitude. You can see how I did answered him and how he answered to me. It makes the difference. The phrase is what allowed me to get serious since he directly acknowledges being insulting me. You got my trick. Because the rest is more subjective. But why somebody can go there and say "Is your problem" after telling a story about how good he is playing this game?  No way. If somebody think something is not his problem he just ignore and does not answer, not trying to bombard other people or something that other consider is important. It was obvious that people were arguing in that post so it is obvious it was not only my problem. If somebody going there and talking from equal to equal then he shows me how I am not right or he has different opinion trust me I am going to answer with respect, assume my mistakes if I have, etc. As I did and you read my first answer to the same user. But that guy went there to talk as if he was the only who knows about the game and about the reality, until the point that directly disrespect me. You can read that I am not the only who noticed that in the post and somebody pointed that same. I don't mind how much, it is not the way. 

Btw, I would like you answer there if you say your companions do not die because you maybe have a solid opinion about it and  I would like to listen. 

The On-Topic part is your opinion I have not much to say and I respect. For me I feel It has been a problem in this forum and I don't know if reputation is the key but I am sure it is not helping to keep a clean forum and a coummunity of equals where everybody count.

Cheers.

[Troll_Logic]

12 hours ago, (PSN)IndianChiefJeff said:

How'd that one song by Joan Jett & the Blackhearts go again...?

I love Rock 'n' Roll?

[str4dlin]

hace 12 horas, (PSN)IndianChiefJeff dijo:

How'd that one song by Joan Jett & the Blackhearts go again...?

Lol I had not read it
 

🤘

[Deminisis]

I don't like the Karma farmers on Reddit, so I'd prefer they not be able to hunt for forum upvotes either.

Upvoting a comment is good to show approval by others, but counting them on a profile like some kind of badge is unnecessary.

[Deminisis]

14 hours ago, Voltage said:

I just had to write as I'm probably the more high profile of players with lots of reputation.

There sure are people who go out of their way at times to act like this, but I believe a platform on the internet will always be open to that attitude. I'm sure DE and other players are able to identify when that's the case and dismiss the post/comment. DE is more disconnected with players over time as well, so that's another factor into the Forums environment.

Feedback is good and all, but seeing how often you're the first comment in patch notes makes it harder to take you seriously. I've seen one of yours that they removed shortly after posting.

[KIREEK]

Well, yes some users do farm rep, but that doesn't mean no solid feedback exists, it may be buried under the many comments out there, so one doesn't impact the other. I don't believe users with some degree of rep gain said rep 100% from posting worthless comments, it's a % sure and you can always check the users posts to gain an idea of how the rep was gained.

I don't find the rep all that usefull, i often give my input and it will stay for those searching for clarification in the future, a post saying "thanks" that has 50 upvotes is completely worthless, but it is a valid post that gathers attention in that specific moment.

Reddit is more prone to karma farm and while it has a few checks in place, users are often more broad when farming karma, this can even be while being toxic, because that CAN gather upvotes.

[Voltage]

2 hours ago, Deminisis said:

Feedback is good and all, but seeing how often you're the first comment in patch notes makes it harder to take you seriously. I've seen one of yours that they removed shortly after posting.

Those comments are almost always feedback with legitimate criticisms. Most of what I mention has historical precedence, and regarding their rare removal, it seems to be cherry-picked.

I still haven't gotten an answer as to which rules I violate after weeks/months :).

My goal on these Forums is to educate players with historical information regarding the history and progress this game has taken through a development standpoint. If you disagree or dislike my comments that's fine, but I just want to make sure you understand that they are always in good faith as constructive feedback to try and make DE aware of how inconsistent of an experience this game has become and how they treat the players who made this game what it is (the early adopters of new content).

[Schwitzer]

Just a note about the other thread that, apparently, was the motivation for this suggestion; You accused me of "inventions" and "not playing this game" when I tried to offer my experience of what worked for me. 

 

Perhaps people aren't responding poorly because of some contrived reputation conspiracy. Perhaps they're actually responding to your own attitude. 

[str4dlin]

hace 2 horas, Schwitzer dijo:

Just a note about the other thread that, apparently, was the motivation for this suggestion; You accused me of "inventions" and "not playing this game" when I tried to offer my experience of what worked for me. 

 

Perhaps people aren't responding poorly because of some contrived reputation conspiracy. Perhaps they're actually responding to your own attitude. 

I answered you a bit rude. You are right. I probably was a bit tilted about the other user comment and I agree I have answered you a bit rude. So I am sorry for that.

What I meant with "inventions" is that I have recorded a video that shows how pets are being killed and I think most of the people suffer that and your answer was like "I have not trouble" when we all have the same companions and they actually dying 1-2 times per minute if you don't use specific config.  I would like to have something to prove your argument. not just words. I did never wanted to "attack" you personally. Sorry If you felt offended.

I think is better we don't generate off-topic content here. But I do not miss the opportunity to apologize publicly.
All the best.

[Aesthier]

I have been reading this thread for a while now and before it gets even further derailed I would just like to impart a solution that I think would work to some degree for both sides.

Give users the ability (an additional option) to hide their forum reputation from everyone but themselves and DE.

 

We will never get rid of those that attempt to use character assassination or defamation as leverage in a debate just like we will never get rid of those who take personal offense to it and bite on the bait.

There are those that use various methods (MR, time played, achievement, forum rep etc..) as shortcuts in passively determining if a player might or might not have a valid point in the discussion of a particular subject without making public accusations. Many of those players aren't the ones making personal attacks but instead use those methods to better focus on where the valid points might be found.

Even though the accuracy of this is method is as varied as the individual subjects and players themselves; I do not believe that the "active" and public use of these identifiers as leverage by a "few" players fully justifies the removal of such identifiers completely.

 

On the flip-side I well aware of the misuse of these identifiers by a select few to aggressively hinder, derail, or completely shut down valid points of discussions brought forth by "seemingly"newer players that they disagree with. Something that has irritated me for quite some time.

 

I find validity in both arguments thus is why I proposed the aforementioned solution that does not "remove" anything and instead gives players additional options to use if they deem those options appropriate.

I hope this helps to some degree.

[Tesseract7777]

It's already hidden in the profile. If they go ahead and remove it entirely idc, but they already acted to hide it. 

And upvotes themselves, as others have pointed out, are helpful to get the general barometer of an ideas popularity without spamming threads with "QFE" quote chains... anyone remember the old days of that? 

Would I care if upvotes were only for the topic and permanent rep was removed? Not really, but I think we have more important things to do. 

I will say this though: As long as reputation continues to exist, even within the profile, those with a lot of it have a responsibility to hold themselves to a higher standard than the regular guidelines suggest, imo. Myself included, even if I forget that sometimes. 

[Schwitzer]

5 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I will say this though: As long as reputation continues to exist, even within the profile, those with a lot of it have a responsibility to hold themselves to a higher standard than the regular guidelines suggest, imo.

It's just a relatively meaningless number, though. To be held to a higher standard ascribes some importance to it. I don't think you should do that. 

I like that they hid it on posts. I'd be fine if they hid it on public profiles. Keep the post scores, though. 

6 hours ago, str4dlin said:

I answered you a bit rude. You are right. I probably was a bit tilted about the other user comment and I agree I have answered you a bit rude. So I am sorry for that.

Okay. Just be aware that your comments are why I gave up responding or trying to help. 

[Tesseract7777]

4 minutes ago, Schwitzer said:

It's just a relatively meaningless number, though. To be held to a higher standard ascribes some importance to it. I don't think you should do that. 

I mean, I don't like it either. I honestly wouldn't mind it gone, it would be a sigh of relief for me, because oftentimes I feel like people who don't read the forums a lot put extra weight to my posts because of my post count, rep, etc and I don't like that pressure. Quite frankly I don't think post count should be visible either. 

But I do feel like if people who don't read the forums a lot are giving my words extra weight, I have to be responsible about that. And I can't say I have any desire to have such responsibility. 

 

[Schwitzer]

2 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

But I do feel like if people who don't read the forums a lot are giving my words extra weight, I have to be responsible about that.

If they do that, it's a bit silly. They'd have to manually view your profile and then decide this number makes you special.

A bigger issue would be the lovely purple names that public testers get!

[Hobie-wan]

We used to have upvote, downvote, and laugh, which people's totals showed with their posts.

They removed downvote. So everyone started using laugh as "haha look at this dumbass" instead of "haha that's funny".

They removed laugh so there was only upvote to combat this.

Then they made it like it is now so upvote counts are only visible in the hover or profile.

Yes there are people that still try to do the 'first' thing, then come back and edit in a more meaningful post that might have some good ideas. Annoying as those are as they are certainly hoping for upvotes, there aren't too many of these 'first' type votes except for the first page of brand new patch notes. But as stated, most upvotes in the bug and suggestion forums at least are from people that agree and want to help bring visibility to something or are acknowledging an answer that helped someone fix or workaround something.

_{Also I say this as someone that posts jokes as replies from time to time, not to farm upvotes, just because they're usually dad jokes that I need to get out so they don't fester.}