In retrospect, what was the point of the melee mod nerf?

[Flannoit]

On 2021-08-31 at 5:44 PM, quxier said:

stances are bad/boring. They won't even fix base problem of stances.

I feel like stances are easily the #1 issue with melee rn. You have weapons that don't have a single good stance (gunblade), some that have at least one decent stance but doesn't really do anything to stand out (heavy blade), and then you have weapons that have at least one stance that can almost guarantee headshots and extremely fluid motion at all times (polearm)

Stances are in severe need of rework, and stances are why some weapon types have extremely disproportionate use. You can have a cool-looking weapon all you want, but it means nothing if players despise actually using the stance it's glued to.

[Kaotyke]

38 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

You don't just "send stuff to exportation" and magically get money. Someone somewhere has to buy that too.

From what you wrote so far I didn't think you'd have such a high opinion of Brazililan meat producers. I don't, I'm cynical. I think they won't just export more because if they could, they'd already be doing it.

Look, this is off topic and it will be the last I say on this, but unless you are a brazillian, like I am, is living the situation and seeing the effects of not just meat prices rising (I only mentioned that because "Forums on fire = BQQ, but I will not bring the meat", but the prices of all food stuffs raising. The price of gasoline raising, the price of kitchen gas raising yet again...

So, I'm not saying those things out of cynism alone. I'm living it.

[-Augustus-]

On 2021-08-31 at 2:14 PM, Mints said:

Mr. Kuva Zarr doesn't have to do any such thing. On the contrary: Mr. Kuva Zarr's burst damage is consistent and requires absolutely no mechanical skill whatsoever

This is incorrect. The reason AoE primary weapons are so effective right now is because they're finally benefiting from that same positive feedback loop as melee. Slot in your kill-conditional arcane and mods, kill stuff to spool up, then use/maintain it by Zarring everything in sight. The Kuva Zarr would still be good without the merciless arcane and galv mods, of course, but it wouldn't have the amazing burst damage you're whining about.

[Lemon]

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But it isnt like a battlepass. It is simply seasonal content that has been around since MMOs became a thing. It isnt like the exlusive rewards never come back etc. It also has no direct connection to any monetization, it is simply a system to give us something to do. Thinking it is anywhere near Fortnite or other battlepasses is disingenuous, heck it isnt even comparable to Marvel Avengers' which can be accessed for "free". Also, what damn gambling are you talking about? You sound like a conspiracy nut at this point and DE is the Illuminati, Satan's left hand and professional puppy/kitten tormentors of the highest rank.

Whatever your opinion is on content doesnt change what other things are. And again you bring up gambling, I mean really? It is a freakin' arpg/looter shooter with RNG loot, who wudda thunk dat?

I dont think it is very hilarious or surprising that they changed their mind. They already changed what SP was going to be prior to its release. It became its own mode and not just "sim 2.0" in regular missions. And if they've seen popularity in it, then obviously the correct step is to improve and utilize it since people like it. Also, it is better for all the "no mai powah phantesi!" people that the balance changed were implemented for SP, since if they balanced for the normal game you'd see a massive decrease in power since normal content takes far less power to complete effectively. And maybe they saw the "endgame audicence" was far bigger than expected and covered far more of the total audience in the end. I think their "endgame audince" implied that they wouldnt balance things or cater to people spending hours upon hours in endless missions.

And of course changing numbers will eventually make combat feel fresh, if content is also released to cater to the new numbers. It is no different if they change the numbers through power creep items or if they reduce the power through nerfs, if there isnt content to support it both will feel stale and both will be equally bad choices. Right now the melee changes didnt do much, neither in a negative or positive way. The ranged changes however added power creep without having any content to actually use that extra power in.

loot drops are serotonin induced gambling caves, its basically the whole game and yeah the nightwave is menial tasks meant to inspire fomo and keep gamblers hooked

steel path is piss easy and braindead you just lock the loadout and blast away

but you know this and ignored the nuance in what i said with a reactionary response where you say i am a conspiracy nutcase, pretty disgusting way to be but hey i guess that's what you want to be

[quxier]

2 hours ago, Flannoit said:

I feel like stances are easily the #1 issue with melee rn. You have weapons that don't have a single good stance (gunblade), some that have at least one decent stance but doesn't really do anything to stand out (heavy blade), and then you have weapons that have at least one stance that can almost guarantee headshots and extremely fluid motion at all times (polearm)

Stances are in severe need of rework, and stances are why some weapon types have extremely disproportionate use. You can have a cool-looking weapon all you want, but it means nothing if players despise actually using the stance it's glued to.

Stances are one of the biggest culprit of "melee feel". However there lots of other stuffs needs "fixing". All things I could think of (including stances)... spoiler because it getting longer:

Spoiler

- fixing forward & standing combos movement (forward should move you, standing shouldn't move you too much)

- introduce backward combo (some combo just moves you forward, just remove that forced movement; other might require some tweaking)

- hit detection - things like enemy stooping you from moving more, some interaction between enemy & you on any contact etc; I have seen some early Ghoul saw "Riding on enemies" animation; last gameplay haven't had that, afair

- heavy attack being slow & flow breaking attack (partially fixed by wind up mods for some weapons)

- allow us to mod other attacks that are not for base combos (E, forward + E, block + E, forward + block + E); Telos boltace (and in general slide attack) range, speed, timer; Arum spinosa - projectiles count, speed (more than wind up mods); Aerial attack - have anyone remember about Deimos mod? Range, speed, some other features; Slam attack damage, range, speed, etc, Something*; Aim glide attack (jump > aimglide + E) mods

- make attacks not breaking flow -> look at Tenet Exec vs Tenet Grigori. Exec is very quick: jump > slam > roll > repeat. With slam attack you can position yourself almost everywhere. Grigori requires to heavy slide attack. It's very slow attack.

- allow heavy attacks with aim-glide for some weapons (e.g. Arum spinosa & co)

- make a reasons to use different combos (what's the point of certain standing combos where you can do the same with moving one, for example Cleaving whirlwind)

- make weapons' types differ. Out of ~25 types I remember Zaws (because of Exodias), Gunblades, Glaives, Warfans (heavy attack).

- make stance differ by advantages not by missing stuffs. Some stances just don't have some attacks or some attacks are just bad. Hence you pick stance that is not broken not what you prefer

- make-your-stance may fix some personal issues with stances (e.g. you don't like certain attacks or you want to change order). It could fix other issues mentioned earlier depending on how "deep" the DIY system would be.

I may missed some stuffs but I don't feel like thinking too much about it as it will be ignored.

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But it isnt like a battlepass. It is simply seasonal content that has been around since MMOs became a thing. It isnt like the exlusive rewards never come back etc. It also has no direct connection to any monetization, it is simply a system to give us something to do. Thinking it is anywhere near Fortnite or other battlepasses is disingenuous, heck it isnt even comparable to Marvel Avengers' which can be accessed for "free". Also, what damn gambling are you talking about? You sound like a conspiracy nut at this point and DE is the Illuminati, Satan's left hand and professional puppy/kitten tormentors of the highest rank.

Whatever your opinion is on content doesnt change what other things are. And again you bring up gambling, I mean really? It is a freakin' arpg/looter shooter with RNG loot, who wudda thunk dat?

I dont think it is very hilarious or surprising that they changed their mind. They already changed what SP was going to be prior to its release. It became its own mode and not just "sim 2.0" in regular missions. And if they've seen popularity in it, then obviously the correct step is to improve and utilize it since people like it. Also, it is better for all the "no mai powah phantesi!" people that the balance changed were implemented for SP, since if they balanced for the normal game you'd see a massive decrease in power since normal content takes far less power to complete effectively. And maybe they saw the "endgame audicence" was far bigger than expected and covered far more of the total audience in the end. I think their "endgame audince" implied that they wouldnt balance things or cater to people spending hours upon hours in endless missions.

And of course changing numbers will eventually make combat feel fresh, if content is also released to cater to the new numbers. It is no different if they change the numbers through power creep items or if they reduce the power through nerfs, if there isnt content to support it both will feel stale and both will be equally bad choices. Right now the melee changes didnt do much, neither in a negative or positive way. The ranged changes however added power creep without having any content to actually use that extra power in.

Personally, I wish they’d spend less time working towards “endgame” (not that I think they’ve put tremendous amounts of effort into it so far) and forcing players with the mod/arcane/equipment power combinations to be challenged, and more time fixing what’s already here; bug fixes, matchmaking, mechanics tuning. Churning out new content to keep the lights on already takes a large amount of resources.

I’m well aware that “Fix what’s here” is on the forum bingo card, but damn if I don’t want to see it realised

edit: 🤔 The more I think about it the more I struggle to quantise how much effort was put towards Endgame, actually. Part of the struggle is due to loose definitions of such

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

5 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

No, they just will send even more to exportation when they notice the dip in internal consumption/purchase has began.

Reject meat. Return to soy.

When people don’t buy, companies lose money. Because raising the meat cost money, not selling the product is a loss. Low supply, prices rise, sure. But if the price is too high, then there is low demand, and the prices will fall. It’s self regulating. If people can’t afford those prices they will go down. If they aren’t going down it’s because people clearly can afford those prices.

No but seriously, didn’t you Brazilian  folk over throw your government a couple years back?

[Lancars]

19 hours ago, Krankbert said:

Is this your first online game?

No. I just chose blissful ignorance for the longest time but I just can't anymore.

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

Yes. To give an idea, cow tongue was $7,00/ea at the beginning of 2020. Now its $22/ea. Ordinary Meat, or 2nd quality meat as we call them, AKA meat we can do in pressure pans, dont know what you guys call them, rose even more. The Round was $18,00 at the start of 2020, not its $30,00/kg.

The reason for this IS because of exportation. Most of the meat we produce is going OUT of the country, which means the internal prices raise because there's a "low supply". 

But since this is Brazil, where the most successful thieves do their robbery legally, the prices would raise even if the internal supply rose. I doubt those prices will ever go down now.

That is insane! The Round here in sweden costs on avarage $10/kg for local, not sure how much the Braz one would be since we rarely have it. Seems the imports is mostly on entrecote and filé, where the filé goes for $20/kg or so on avarage in comparison to our local that can be up to and over $50/kg at normal non-discounted price. And that is like the best piece of the whole animal. Completely bonkers that a round should cost $30/kg. Thanks for the info even though we strayed off topic. Some things just peaks interest.

14 hours ago, Lemon said:

loot drops are serotonin induced gambling caves, its basically the whole game and yeah the nightwave is menial tasks meant to inspire fomo and keep gamblers hooked

steel path is piss easy and braindead you just lock the loadout and blast away

but you know this and ignored the nuance in what i said with a reactionary response where you say i am a conspiracy nutcase, pretty disgusting way to be but hey i guess that's what you want to be

No really they arent. Maybe go look up the definition of gambling. What exactly do you lose in games with grinding? You dont put down a bet and so on. It has nothing to do with gambling, they are simple game mechanics. By your reasoning everything in WF is a battle pass, since even Thermia Fractures, Razorback and Fomorian follow the same idea, something that is up for X amount of time where you solve Y "menial" task to get Z item. What we see in WF arent mechanics rooted in it being F2P, the mechanics tied to that part are completely different. The loot mechanics and drop rates are simple arpg systems that have been there looter games became a thing. Which started back in the 90's.

The reason I said conspiracy nut is because it counds like it, since you take things that are unrelated to something and connect them eitherway. Like the loot system of arpgs/looter shooters and somehow try to weave it into having something to do with the business model, and seperating things like NW to Fomorian, Razorback and any other event even though the idea is the same in all cases, they just offer different amounts of things over different time periods. And it seems to be done since you look at the UI layout of NW and go "battlepass!" since the layout of the UI is similar. You completely ignore that it is 100% free, cannot have tasks circumvented or avoided through real cash payments and so on. Battlepasses are there strictly to promote sales since it is easier and quicker to take shortcuts when possible, or they hold exclusive items you need to pay for before grinding for them. None of that applies to Nightwave, so calling it a battlepass like you did is very very shady.

So I need to ask you, have you ever even played a single game with an actual battlepass?

12 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Personally, I wish they’d spend less time working towards “endgame” (not that I think they’ve put tremendous amounts of effort into it so far) and forcing players with the mod/arcane/equipment power combinations to be challenged, and more time fixing what’s already here; bug fixes, matchmaking, mechanics tuning. Churning out new content to keep the lights on already takes a large amount of resources.

I’m well aware that “Fix what’s here” is on the forum bingo card, but damn if I don’t want to see it realised

edit: 🤔 The more I think about it the more I struggle to quantise how much effort was put towards Endgame, actually. Part of the struggle is due to loose definitions of such

It is common in gaming communities that people ask for focus to be shifted, but in reality it is rarely an option. The guys working on "endgame" or well new content are most often completely seperate from the bug fixers and so on. Everyone at the company needs to be able to do their task, they cant really stop new content to spend more people on fixing bugs, because then alot of people would have nothing to do, like all the different artists, weapons designers and so on. And I hardly think a guy coming up with concept art would be much useful fixing bugs or improving the matchmaker etc. All those people would need to go, or DE would have to pay them for doing nothing.  Not that I think DE will ever manage to produce worthwhile "endgame" as the game is now. Atleast not in a fashion that keeps our progress intact and usable. We'll end up with "endgame" designed like Exploiter, Eidolons, PT and the horrible Nihil fight. Where most or all of our progress and kit are nullified.

I do agree with you though that the game needed fixes and tuning, an improved matchmaker and so on. However, I've seen the full stop method and devs hunkering down to do sweeping reworks and fixes for games, and they've ended up dying due to people leaving in masses during that time. DE could however do new content and reworks at the same time, because they could in essence update current mission types to something better. If they do that instead of releasing new content, the reworked missions would still be new content, and if done in bite sizes at a consistant rate, people wont leave the game when waiting for those reworks. Defense, interception, mobile defense and alot of those missions could be improved to a point where they turn out to be completely new missions.

I dont think much effort has gone into endgame at all. We wouldnt get constant power creep if they had much of an intent to add endgame or if they understood what was needed in order to open up the game for potential endgame. In WF pretty much everything is endgame while at the same time nothing is endgame. The game is just in such an odd paradox state really. In my opinion DE needs to ball up and make some sweeping changes to our power. Then maybe we can have content that is worthwhile.

 

 

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

It is common in gaming communities that people ask for focus to be shifted, but in reality it is rarely an option. The guys working on "endgame" or well new content are most often completely seperate from the bug fixers and so on. Everyone at the company needs to be able to do their task, they cant really stop new content to spend more people on fixing bugs, because then alot of people would have nothing to do, like all the different artists, weapons designers and so on. And I hardly think a guy coming up with concept art would be much useful fixing bugs or improving the matchmaker etc. All those people would need to go, or DE would have to pay them for doing nothing.  Not that I think DE will ever manage to produce worthwhile "endgame" as the game is now. Atleast not in a fashion that keeps our progress intact and usable. We'll end up with "endgame" designed like Exploiter, Eidolons, PT and the horrible Nihil fight. Where most or all of our progress and kit are nullified.

I do agree with you though that the game needed fixes and tuning, an improved matchmaker and so on. However, I've seen the full stop method and devs hunkering down to do sweeping reworks and fixes for games, and they've ended up dying due to people leaving in masses during that time. DE could however do new content and reworks at the same time, because they could in essence update current mission types to something better. If they do that instead of releasing new content, the reworked missions would still be new content, and if done in bite sizes at a consistant rate, people wont leave the game when waiting for those reworks. Defense, interception, mobile defense and alot of those missions could be improved to a point where they turn out to be completely new missions.

I dont think much effort has gone into endgame at all. We wouldnt get constant power creep if they had much of an intent to add endgame or if they understood what was needed in order to open up the game for potential endgame. In WF pretty much everything is endgame while at the same time nothing is endgame. The game is just in such an odd paradox state really. In my opinion DE needs to ball up and make some sweeping changes to our power. Then maybe we can have content that is worthwhile.

 

Yeah, the idea of releasing adjustments as new content is partially what I was thinking too. When I said “Producing new content to keep the lights on”, that was more acknowledging that new content is important. As such, if the two can be combined, new content and fixes to old systems, that’d be preferable.

It’s an intriguing paradox, Warframe’s Endgame. For some, endgame is having the strongest build. Which players do, and then they test it against Steel Path, wanting the build to be powerful enough to tear through it with ease, justifying the player’s cleverness in mod and arcane and equipment choices.

And then they live in said build and want the game to be brought up to par, since the build has satisfied the original criteria, but eventually it’s not good enough to be powerful, now the build needs to be just powerful enough.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

"What was the point of the melee nerf?"

Nothing apparently, because Melee is still better than guns in high levels.

 

the gun buffs let them clear mobs faster yes, but who cares? we could already do that with Abilities.

When it comes to a Single Tanky Bulletsponge Target, Melee will still cut them down as those gun kill-stacks drain away to ineffectiveness.

 

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

 

Yeah, the idea of releasing adjustments as new content is partially what I was thinking too. When I said “Producing new content to keep the lights on”, that was more acknowledging that new content is important. As such, if the two can be combined, new content and fixes to old systems, that’d be preferable.

It’s an intriguing paradox, Warframe’s Endgame. For some, endgame is having the strongest build. Which players do, and then they test it against Steel Path, wanting the build to be powerful enough to tear through it with ease, justifying the player’s cleverness in mod and arcane and equipment choices.

And then they live in said build and want the game to be brought up to par, since the build has satisfied the original criteria, but eventually it’s not good enough to be powerful, now the build needs to be just powerful enough.

I think many of the players screaming for endgame (I do too at times) is because they/we forget that WF isnt your regular linear game setup. We have mobs with levels that have no actual meaning or connection to the simple 30-40 levels of our frames, weapons, companions and so on. We have no direct connection between our power and our levels. This alone is a massive issues when it comes to creating "endgame" for DE, then ontop of that DE seems to design all items based on "cool", "neat", "awesome" and "wowza" instead of having a strict budget to limit things not going out of hand or ending up in poopville (population Yareli). DE had some idea somewhere circling around and then escaping out a window where they tied MR to weapon power slightly, but not even that had any proper impact, nor was it really followed through. I guess it might be something we all need to accept.

I mean, I dont find much challenge in Steel Path, Arbis or Railjack, but I still have immense fun in those modes just hacking away at mobs or blowing S#&$ up. A bonus is they also have rewards that I want even as a vet. So I guess what we should ask for in "endgame" is simply content that is worthwhile both to newer players and veterans. Which would be something that is released similar to normal missions, but then also has a Steel Path mode upon release with its own rewards along with Emo-Muppets dropping Steel Essence. In fact I think Steel Path should probably have its loot updated with more "unique" Steel Path drops overall. It is a great foundation in the game, now they just need to tie everything else into it aswell with some perks for running the game at higher difficulties. Heck I'd love if they surprise us with the coming Plague Star event and introduces a Steel Path version that grants 2x the max standing per run.

I would have welcomed a Steel Path tier 2 aswell since Normal followed by SP just reminds me of old Diabloesque difficulty settings. We could really use more of them. Or DE could take a peek at D3 and check out torment/grift levels. Sure people will say "but the community will get split up", but so be it, people will eventually find their spot and have a reliable experience. I mean, all level based games out there survive with communities being split up from the start due to level restrictions.

[BethTheBean]

On 2021-08-31 at 8:00 PM, Mints said:

The stated purpose of the nerf was so that melee weapons could be brought in line with guns. I saw people complaining about "beyblading." Well, I'm seeing quite a lot of people running missions with Lich/Sister guns that nuke the whole screen. If the purpose of the nerf was to equalize weapon types then where's my Nikana that effortlessly slices entire rooms apart with one swing and zero effort? 😨👌

The problem lies with content creators. Since DE only listens to them, and not the playerbase ( actual players ). Slash and Heat are "King", again. So, when content creators ran through Steel Path with only melee, they *@##$ed.

I've always relied on my primary weapon, with melee and secondary as backup. Sometimes, my sidearm was the better choice. I currently run a heat-viral-galv-ignis wraith, a heat-corrosive-ballas sword, and a cold-rad-mag-kuva nukor. 

Mid-maxing is fine, but don't *@##$ about it on social media - as DE nerfs everything with a heavy hand, with no balancing powers.

[(NSW)Greybones]

11 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

1). I think many of the players screaming for endgame (I do too at times) is because they/we forget that WF isnt your regular linear game setup. We have mobs with levels that have no actual meaning or connection to the simple 30-40 levels of our frames, weapons, companions and so on. We have no direct connection between our power and our levels. This alone is a massive issues when it comes to creating "endgame" for DE, then ontop of that DE seems to design all items based on "cool", "neat", "awesome" and "wowza" instead of having a strict budget to limit things not going out of hand or ending up in poopville (population Yareli). DE had some idea somewhere circling around and then escaping out a window where they tied MR to weapon power slightly, but not even that had any proper impact, nor was it really followed through. I guess it might be something we all need to accept.

2.) I mean, I dont find much challenge in Steel Path, Arbis or Railjack, but I still have immense fun in those modes just hacking away at mobs or blowing S#&$ up. A bonus is they also have rewards that I want even as a vet. So I guess what we should ask for in "endgame" is simply content that is worthwhile both to newer players and veterans. Which would be something that is released similar to normal missions, but then also has a Steel Path mode upon release with its own rewards along with Emo-Muppets dropping Steel Essence. In fact I think Steel Path should probably have its loot updated with more "unique" Steel Path drops overall. It is a great foundation in the game, now they just need to tie everything else into it aswell with some perks for running the game at higher difficulties. Heck I'd love if they surprise us with the coming Plague Star event and introduces a Steel Path version that grants 2x the max standing per run.

I would have welcomed a Steel Path tier 2 aswell since Normal followed by SP just reminds me of old Diabloesque difficulty settings. We could really use more of them. Or DE could take a peek at D3 and check out torment/grift levels. Sure people will say "but the community will get split up", but so be it, people will eventually find their spot and have a reliable experience. I mean, all level based games out there survive with communities being split up from the start due to level restrictions.

(I numbered segments of this quote as I’m on mobile and can’t duplicate quotes)

1.) Yeah, there’s definitely a trick to gauging what we need to bring to a fight of a certain level, and it’s not exactly obvious (though one can build a quick gist of what’s needed for a mission). Mostly in my experience it boils down to “Am I killing fast enough/too fast” and “Am I feeling threatened”, and usually I’ll end up undergeared (because I want to equip all the mechanic-altering mods), maybe fail a mission if I don’t scrape through, then either slightly tweak my configuration or gauge whether I made mistakes and what course of action I’ll take next time in the fight.

The MR thing… does… sort of… work? 🤔 Honestly I’m not experienced enough to have dabbled in every weapon (though I’m building my arsenal), so I can’t exactly tell, but it tends to come down to a sense of “My Lato needs a little more help than my Lex Prime, which means I can get away with more interesting mods and less forma on my Lex Prime”. Again though, it’s hardly definitive proof if it’s simply a feeling every time I bring out certain weapons.

2.) If they added Steel Path to endgame releases, I’d consider that a much of a muchness, personally. I find little of interest in there, but I know others love it, and it does provide a unique single player experience. I hesitate at the thought of working it into the game throughout and giving unique rewards; what kind of impact will it have? But they seem cautious about working with SP, and ultimately I have no say anyways 😋

late edit: 🤔Y’know, all this time I haven’t found much of interest in Steel Path because I was thinking from a single-player experience. But what about multiplayer? Hrmmm, okay, I may be able to see the appeal for me, since we’re all collectively forced to be a little weaker compared to what we fight. Very interesting, will have to approach with a different mindset

[MakotoSmile]

If it was to save me from watching meta beyblades, Im grateful. lol

[SneakyErvin]

11 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

(I numbered segments of this quote as I’m on mobile and can’t duplicate quotes)

1.) Yeah, there’s definitely a trick to gauging what we need to bring to a fight of a certain level, and it’s not exactly obvious (though one can build a quick gist of what’s needed for a mission). Mostly in my experience it boils down to “Am I killing fast enough/too fast” and “Am I feeling threatened”, and usually I’ll end up undergeared (because I want to equip all the mechanic-altering mods), maybe fail a mission if I don’t scrape through, then either slightly tweak my configuration or gauge whether I made mistakes and what course of action I’ll take next time in the fight.

The MR thing… does… sort of… work? 🤔 Honestly I’m not experienced enough to have dabbled in every weapon (though I’m building my arsenal), so I can’t exactly tell, but it tends to come down to a sense of “My Lato needs a little more help than my Lex Prime, which means I can get away with more interesting mods and less forma on my Lex Prime”. Again though, it’s hardly definitive proof if it’s simply a feeling every time I bring out certain weapons.

2.) If they added Steel Path to endgame releases, I’d consider that a much of a muchness, personally. I find little of interest in there, but I know others love it, and it does provide a unique single player experience. I hesitate at the thought of working it into the game throughout and giving unique rewards; what kind of impact will it have? But they seem cautious about working with SP, and ultimately I have no say anyways 😋

late edit: 🤔Y’know, all this time I haven’t found much of interest in Steel Path because I was thinking from a single-player experience. But what about multiplayer? Hrmmm, okay, I may be able to see the appeal for me, since we’re all collectively forced to be a little weaker compared to what we fight. Very interesting, will have to approach with a different mindset

1. Well yeah MR "kinda" works, but it doesnt solve what a proper budget+level band system would. There is a waaaay to big gap between weapons within the same MR tier. In a game with item budget and levels a 2h legandary sword of level 50 would be roughly as strong as a 1h legendary sword of level 50, they'd just have different speeds and such but in the end they'd likely end up at roughly the same dps. Just as in such a system Yareli and Saryn would be close in power, but they'd show it in different ways. We also wouldnt end up with gaps such as frames with 800 health and another with 9000 health.

2. Unique rewards from Steel Path (or any other true endgame) could come in the shape of game mode specific items. Similar to how Guild Wars 2 did it with Fractals, where you'd grind for drops that more or less only effected that specific mode by giving you resistance towards a damage type that would become more and more common the further you pushed. Really a brilliant endgame system that can completely be avoided by those that dont like it, and with the choice to do it but stop when you've obtained the items for the basic gamewide stats. They could do this in WF with things similar to sacrificial mods with a resistance or damage stat that is useful only in that mode while being a very very slight increase in power elsewhere. Another thing they could do is add droppable weapons with RNG stats in an endgame mode, similar to Diablo and all those other game, in addition these weapons could come with mode specific stats aswell. They could restrict this to tenno weapons since Teshin is involved, maybe "Wanderer's Galatine" or something that could roll slightly higher max stats than the Prime version and come with a game mode specific stat aswell. And to make them totaly unique they could restrict them to never be able to equip rivens.

[(PSN)OnionSlayer27]

To be completely honest, I think they way overnerfed Blood Rush. Blood Rush to me is representative of a stage of growth in Warframe where you finally graduate to scaling crit. 

The rework didn't really do anything but make it harder to build crit chance. Most Weapons can barely scrape orange territory now. DE says that they want players to experiment more with the Gladiator Mod set and Rivens, Steel, Arcane etc. But after so many years and a relatively limited mod system, builds have become too clogged to try and jam more things into without losing some substantial aspect of the weapon.

Regardless of how "effective" red crits are, they're fun. There's something simply satisfying and rewarding about seeing them. The speed nerfs I get and aren't too harmful to the overall game but melee and the combo counter was some of the funnest things about the game. Maintaining that streak as long as you could for higher damage. There's been so much "pullback" mentality recently, like DE is afraid to make things that are fun.