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If Merulina can't be modded it's not a fun K-Drive


Vafthrudnir
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3 hours ago, Dauggie said:

in general kdrive is no fun, if it was not giving any mastery, i would have never touched it

I really don't understand how in a world where Tony Hawk's Pro Skater existed for years, decades even, you can make such clunky and unresponsive skate board controls. I always wonder if "default controller" would be better, but on PC it's just... ass.

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3 hours ago, Aesthier said:

I think the excuse that DE is making is that it isn't a K-drive in the first place.

It is an ability.

FTFY.

DE made a Warframe with an Exalted Warframe with an Exalted Weapon, then said "Nah, make Exalted K-Drive too hard, we make pet to ride with no mods". If Merulina's not a K-Drive, it bloody well should be. (Gameplay-wise, that is, inb4 "but teh lore says it inspired k-drive". News flash: Having some orphans bunked up in a ventilation system be able to make massive improvements to Orokin design isn't the most lore-friendly thing either. Merulina should be moddable.)

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4 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

FTFY.

 

I am whelmed...

I also stand by my original statement that it is an ability not a K-drive.

If it was a K-Drive it wouldn't be usable in normal missions.

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15 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

FTFY.

DE made a Warframe with an Exalted Warframe with an Exalted Weapon, then said "Nah, make Exalted K-Drive too hard, we make pet to ride with no mods". If Merulina's not a K-Drive, it bloody well should be. (Gameplay-wise, that is, inb4 "but teh lore says it inspired k-drive". News flash: Having some orphans bunked up in a ventilation system be able to make massive improvements to Orokin design isn't the most lore-friendly thing either. Merulina should be moddable.)

It seems that it is easier to create a warframe than what they called transport. I'm waiting to see what exalted necromech will be like.

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I do very much agree: given that Merulina is essentially an Exalted K-Drive, it would be better for us to be able to mod it, particularly as the ability in its current state is painfully clunky and underwhelming. DE probably kludged Yareli's design so that she could ride something that plays like a K-Drive in-mission in a manner that wouldn't allow K-Drives to be enabled indoors as easily, but if true that would only be more reason to code both properly and get them working across more content.

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14 hours ago, Aesthier said:

I also stand by my original statement that it is an ability not a K-drive.

If it was a K-Drive it wouldn't be usable in normal missions.

By the same line of logic, Mesa's Regulators is an ability, not a Secondary/Pistol. If it was a Secondary/Pistol, you wouldn't be able to bring it to a mission alongside another Secondary/Pistol. Thus, it shouldn't be able to use Pistol mods. Same for Exalted Blade, same for Artemis Bow, every single Exalted save for whatever you wanna call Garuda's Talons.

That line of logic is stupid. Looking forward to your next attempt to justify no K-Drive mods on Merulina.

 

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18 hours ago, Aesthier said:

 

I am whelmed...

I also stand by my original statement that it is an ability not a K-drive.

If it was a K-Drive it wouldn't be usable in normal missions.

It's an ability that summons a K-Drive. As Perfectly_Framed_Waifu stated it is in the same line of abilities as the Exalted Weapons since it summons an actual separate entity with modifiable stats (with frame-based ability mods only at this point). The fact you can't mod it is weird on its own and by my recollection DE were planning to allow K-Drives in normal missions at some stage in the past. Merulina is almost certainly a trial option to gather specific information about the behavior and viability of K-Drives in regular missions, in the same vein of thought as Orphix Venom was a trial for Necramechs in regular missions. Just like other Exalted's, if they are concerned about the usability factor around certain mods (looking at you Poppin' Vert) and the resulting gameplay.

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Il y a 4 heures, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu a dit :

Looking forward to your next attempt to justify no K-Drive mods on Merulina

We learned during devstreams before the release that the question was heavily discussed. Merulina was leveling during the demo so, it's not stupid to say it was supposed to be an actual modable exalted K-drive at first.

Juice and Quick escape may had a role in this change, maybe Bomb the landing too. I doubt a lot of people would have been able to exploit Juice in narrow tilesets tho. So my bet is the main problem devs encountered is speed.

Looking how people already struggle with base speed what would it be with all speed mods equiped ?  with Magus Drive ??  

Also, doors. It's not the fact that some are too low the main problem -a little grind do the trick most of the time- no, they are too slow to open even for vanilla K-drive speed.

So understantably, they choose a compromise in a Merulina with a built in Poppin' Vert, essential for mobility. Most offensive K-drive mods are near useless anyway, the only one I regret is bomb the landin'...we still have the slam mechanic to control our air time at least. well, for now. we will see the 8th if the new bullet-dash will change that or not.

 

 

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10 hours ago, SuperFuret said:

Juice and Quick escape may had a role in this change, maybe Bomb the landing too. I doubt a lot of people would have been able to exploit Juice in narrow tilesets tho. So my bet is the main problem devs encountered is speed.

Looking how people already struggle with base speed what would it be with all speed mods equiped ?  with Magus Drive ??  

Also, doors. It's not the fact that some are too low the main problem -a little grind do the trick most of the time- no, they are too slow to open even for vanilla K-drive speed.

So understantably, they choose a compromise in a Merulina with a built in Poppin' Vert, essential for mobility.

As said by another poster, disabling specific mods isn't new to Exalteds, so that shouldn't have been a problem here either. As for the speed bit, you essentially gave the answer yourself. If you think of the current speed as built-in speed mods, then the benefit of modding becomes quite apparent - the ability to decrease the speed below the current by not equipping any speed mods. In other words, nerf the speed to the point where the speed mods negate the nerf. You could even make Sprint mods on Yareli affect the base speed of Merulina, for the speed demons out there.

Likewise, understandably as you say, Merulina comes with a built-in Poppin' Vert. Problem is that it's a max ranked one and some people (like me, for example) don't like that the double jump is so high, and would rather run a PV of fewer ranks. We can't do that at the moment, because Merulina doesn't take K-Drive mods.

So in short, Merulina's mobility is actually a good example of why it should be K-Drive moddable.

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Il y a 6 heures, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu a dit :

ou think of the current speed as built-in speed mods

No Merulina speed is K-Drive base speed. some surfaces and the slipery nature of merulina might increase it a bit but not much. It doesn't make a difference in races. And some tileset doors already struggle with that speed. So I think they took that decision to avoid some player frustration. Don't get me wrong, I wish we had the choice, but the speed demon in me knows what would happen : you would bump in every door because they can't handle your speed, which isn't very agreable and fluid. So I get it why they made such a choice. plus some dudes were complaining  there were too much exalted stuff to forma after Sevagoth, so two bird one stone I guess.

As far as poppin vert, I always use the maxed version so I didn't mind that much. It's more a habit matters, in some areas with big gaps to skip, the extra height is worth it imo.

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44 minutes ago, SuperFuret said:

No Merulina speed is K-Drive base speed.

Yeah, and my point is lowering Merulina speed to below K-Drive base speed, then make it moddable up to K-Drive speed through K-Drive speed mods, and above that with Warframe Sprint mods... By not modding for speed, you can solve or at least alleviate the following problem:

46 minutes ago, SuperFuret said:

you would bump in every door because they can't handle your speed, which isn't very agreable and fluid.

46 minutes ago, SuperFuret said:

As far as poppin vert, I always use the maxed version so I didn't mind that much. It's more a habit matters, in some areas with big gaps to skip, the extra height is worth it imo.

Modding would let people play their way. Personally, I prefer jump charge speed over double jump height. Better precision IMO.

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On 2021-09-01 at 11:25 PM, Aesthier said:

 

I am whelmed...

I also stand by my original statement that it is an ability not a K-drive.

If it was a K-Drive it wouldn't be usable in normal missions.

but that's like venari not being moddable cause she's an ability and not a companion

 

On 2021-09-02 at 11:35 AM, Klaeljanu said:

I suspect that the main reason they won't let us mod it is the Juice mod, that grants energy on trick points.

i can see that being true, exclude 100 things cause 1 thing is actually worth it in a build

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What current k drive mods would actually help it in general gameplay. There a re a small amount of mods that work with dismount one of which is baked in functionality. Then there are a few that give a firewalker like trail with tricks  and slides. All the rest make you jump higher/longer or help with tricks.

If they add modding for it  they would need to make you farm vent kids rep to get them and would only be good for her as no one touches their k drive in open world for combat.

Honestly they should just bake better functionality into merulina namely better dr and mobility not as affected by cluttered environments.  

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On 2021-09-02 at 10:35 AM, Klaeljanu said:

I suspect that the main reason they won't let us mod it is the Juice mod, that grants energy on trick points.

 

On 2021-09-02 at 12:16 PM, giovanniluca said:

They could, you know, disable it or nerf. They did it with other weapons.

 

On 2021-09-02 at 12:37 PM, giovanniluca said:

Besides it isn't a problem, you can cheat energy in many ways.

I initially had the same thoughts but when in most missions is there room enough that you can build enough combo for it to be an issue. Really it should be allowed as it gives you a choice in missing. Energize, energy siphon, or juice. It could make a build that works off quick thinking more viable too.

Really adding mods might fix a few issues she has in the long run.

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