is there a reason for DE's absurd constant release of explosive weapons?

[Surbusken]

I have to turn effects off because I can't see what is going on and I mean that's not even dramatizing the situation. The word clutter just doesn't do it justice at all.

 

That aside to me the problem is how they ruin large portions of content by handing out powercreep with no sense of plan or concept. Where AOE invalidates entire weapon classes, time, money, effort and gameplay, that people could have been invested in.

You'd think they would be interested in building up as many options as possible to sell more but the only thing that matters is the next powercreep grind.

Not the gameplay, balance or anything that is not apart of the current grind.

I guess most people don't think about it but to me I am unable to get invested in anything, when it can be nerfed and ruined whenever they want a new item to have powercreep.

 

Feels like more than it started with an idea of gameplay or concept, it's just trying random things and then sticking with whatever has the least effort attached to it.

Just spamming out frames and weapons every 3 months and then just not care about anything really.

Hey it makes money right, so it must be great

[taiiat]

it's kind've like a phase. for a while it was adding Semi-Auto or Auto modes to every Gun even if they already had one of those modes that might even be superior to what they were adding...

well, currently it's adding a Grenade Launcher to everything.

6 minutes ago, Surbusken said:

You'd think they would be interested in building up as many options as possible to sell more but the only thing that matters is the next powercreep grind.

options doesn't actually make Money in games. a never ending flavor of the month going around in a circle though? yes, that does.

[ReddyDisco]

As much as i like explosions my graphics card doesn't, it has a fit and stops working whenever a party full of zarr users are going ham. I really can't be bothered to buy a new card so i go solo most of the time.

Aoe has no real downsides and makes enemies unlive with ease so it's the obvious choice and DE knows what players like so 'MOAR BOOM'

[Danielw8]

You are against of explosions but not against of ignis wraith, because being honest the gameplay its almost the same shoot close of the enemy, hit in aoe, big magazine/fast reload. If they actually want make a balance missions should have 50% less enemies and those enemies should have millions of hp so hiting headshots with sniper its actually worth, but this idea changes the whole videogame. So right now when i do mot steel path i need to kill at least 120 enemies per min i have no option ...

[(NSW)Greybones]

🤔 Maybe they’re giving more options for faster grind? It would run counter to what I’d expect, but… I mean, what are AoE weapons being used for?

[Prexades]

The problem is, that you have to use them to get any kill at all. Especially when you have extremely fast frames in team that use AoE weapons themselves and clear entire rooms before you even get there.

[Slayer-.]

8 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

it's just too much, too quickly, what's the use of headshots and snipers now? 

To unlock rivens when distance is needed. 

7 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

precision weapons do still have their place in certain boss fights: good luck doing Kela De Thaym with only AoE weapons when you need direct damage to do the puzzles between phases. I still enjoy using non-AoE, and DE still release non AoE weapons, like the upcoming Strun and Magnus primes. they can still be very effective, it's just that it's faster to get things done with AoE weapons, and most players will care about efficiency above all else.

"THAT'S BULL****, BUY A GOD DAMN TORGUE GUN!" 

I like all guns, though if you want to send a group to outer space well refer to above video.

[Dunkelheit]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Danielw8:

You are against of explosions but not against of ignis wraith, because being honest the gameplay its almost the same shoot close of the enemy, hit in aoe, big magazine/fast reload. If they actually want make a balance missions should have 50% less enemies and those enemies should have millions of hp so hiting headshots with sniper its actually worth, but this idea changes the whole videogame. So right now when i do mot steel path i need to kill at least 120 enemies per min i have no option ...

You could fix that problem with factions. Let Grineer be rare, but awesome fighters and infested want to kill you with numbers. It kinda works like this, but AOE weapons are so powerful that you use them for Grineer as well. Which is a shame tbh, because half the arsenal is single target and some are really fun to use. Additionally, a single target weapon requires aim so it forces you to get better if you want better results, not go to overframe.gg and copy a build.

[bad4youLT]

Before the change I couldn't care less about AoE weapons simple because they could gib me any moment from doors suddenly closing in front of you to mobs or even others players just jumping on your face and especially back then revives were paid with platnum .

What DE did with whole self damage remove essentially gave new life to weapon type that was ignored by entire community and you want it gone because chroma can no longer exploit its vex armor ? 

[(PSN)max141064]

13 hours ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

i once had hopes for self damage to comeback as it limits our careless exploits of explosive weaponry, it also could've had potential for a warframe that feeds off of damage to fuel his abilities (like chroma but interesting).

but the more i play the more i notice the EXTREME increase in the blast radius of some weapons, exceeding 8 meters, it's kind of sad.

not only that, everyone and their grandma must have a rocket launcher in their arsenal, even non explosive guns like tetra (one of my favorite ricocheting weapons) now has an alterante fire mode with it's Tenet vairant, making the idea of enjoying the ricochet mechanics of the tetra bullets pointless.

it's just too much, too quickly, what's the use of headshots and snipers now? 

What do you think? what's your opinion on this?

i like that people can decide what to play without worring about blowing themselves up.

the fact that Ogris exists doesn't mean that the Rubico is trash. 

you can play with all the snipers in the world and still have your fun and people can play with their Ogris and have their fun. 

why should we advocate for taking away the fun of others just because we don't enjoy what they enjoy? 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

13 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

i like that people can decide what to play without worring about blowing themselves up.

the fact that Ogris exists doesn't mean that the Rubico is trash. 

you can play with all the snipers in the world and still have your fun and people can play with their Ogris and have their fun. 

why should we advocate for taking away the fun of others just because we don't enjoy what they enjoy? 

because that fun is overshadowing other's fun, why would you bring a sniper rifle in a squad, when everyone uses explosives?

it's also weakening my options in solo play, why would i use high accuracy weapons, that require good aiming, when the only way to get the job done is to use big damage explosive weapons?

there is a very weird balance issue in that area

[(PSN)max141064]

24 minutes ago, (PSN)Hopper_Orouk said:

it's also weakening my options in solo play, why would i use high accuracy weapons, that require good aiming, when the only way to get the job done is to use big damage explosive weapons?

Because you like to use sniper rifles. 

asking DE to nerf guns just because you don't like to play with them it's really not it.

For example...i really don't like Wukong because it's overused and for people that want to play afk. 

Why should i ask DE to take away someone's favorite frame just because i don't like him? 

i totally get that sometimes it gets annoingly overused to use determinate frames or weapons but my tip on that is to just play solo until you feel ready to go back in coop and deal with everyone's choices. 

if DE starts to deal with everyone's likings the game is going to become a toxic-fueled game where we only ask to nerf to the ground everything just because we don't like them. 

And you really don't want that. 

[(PSN)max141064]

For what the game is right now the problem is not AOE weapons but the maps themselves. 

Take Helene for example...it's literally just 4 walls with two stairs that bring in a room even smaller. 

Even if you're there with your rubico and the other 3 with a Soma...your'e the one that is going to get overshadowed in the killing department, 

it's not the explosions the problem, the problem is that in missions where the maps is THAT small with walls computers everywhere it's always going to be harder for you to kill with a sniper rifle and for that matter, incredibly easy for the guys with their somas. 

of couse the game is not only Helene but most maps are corridors and small rooms...there are big rooms and even open worlds where you're the one that will benefit the most from the enviroment. but again....of course in a game where we invade spaceships and kill everyone inside them it's mostly going to be a problem for you and your sniper rifle. 

[SneakyErvin]

We got them because everyone likes fine damsels with huge badonkadonks.

[Slayer-.]

12 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

We got them because everyone likes fine damsels with huge badonkadonks.

More Borderlands 2 references. lol

[Hayrack]

Most of explosive weapons have additional time consuming and precision hindering firing mechanics though (unless it's Penta with Napalm Grenades mod), innate Poof!, also known as Blast damage, that's most effective against... [checks Wiki] Grineer Rollers, Drones and Infested Ancients (who plays PoE or Railjack (or anything) with Blast builds anyways), so the problem lies, imo, in tools and buffs that allow those weapons to climb above more specialized weapons and builds.

By the way, have DE implemented explosion damage occlusion yet?

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

I can never get into explosive weapons. I have guns that easily out performs most of them. And some times i think people whonused aoe just don't think, like kill everything in a fissure before it gets corrupted and no one have any reactant and we're at extract already.  I think self damage shouldn't of been completely wiped but just be like 25% of damage so there's risk but it's not a 1 hit kill risk. Just to make people actually aim at groups of enemies 

[Danielw8]

4 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

You could fix that problem with factions. Let Grineer be rare, but awesome fighters and infested want to kill you with numbers. It kinda works like this, but AOE weapons are so powerful that you use them for Grineer as well. Which is a shame tbh, because half the arsenal is single target and some are really fun to use. Additionally, a single target weapon requires aim so it forces you to get better if you want better results, not go to overframe.gg and copy a build.

Grineer still paper against slash or armor stripping so i dont know why a high crit/high slash status aoe weapon should not kill grineer. You didnt take note about the main problem, i will give you another example

I did lvlcap run before primary weapons buffs with phage in disruption, i went with phage nukor and nikana prime, but my main buffs was for phage. to make a decent run i needed to kill normal enemies with nikana and demolyst with phage (demolyst die in literally 3 seconds at lvlcap steel path without a min max build). For crowds, a lot of enemies in your room, you need clear this is not the explosion meta, its the aoe meta in general included abilities, i can take my quartakk with riven plus slownova+eclipse and oneshot whatever for the next 2 hours in survival or more hitting most of the time headshots, but doesnt matter i not have enought air support to keep playing

A very high kpm its something like 180-200 (khora ophellia meta) using ogris im at 120 130, using smg im in like 50? or 60?my air support go down literally in the first 5min without using nekros, the only way to make it viable a baza prime in survival its when you play aoe warframe damage like saryn or octavia but in that case you are not killing with baza, you are just clearing the map with abilties

At the end about the gameplay you really need clear the room, doesnt matter your survivaliy if enemies start to stack like infested its just time you to get one shot and die, even if you are invis, you get energy drain, toxin procs, your get pretty much canceled.

This whole escenario its for steel path of course, if you play fissure survival do whatever you will be fine. And yes i have a decent aim, i play competitive shooters, i dont know how can be for console players

[Kripnex]

It's hard to release new weapons that people care about unless they are AOE, have some useful unique mechanic, or do a million damage.
Basically, the weapon meta would stagnate if they didn't do this, plus it's nice to have more AOE weapons to pick from.

You can argue all you want that AOE is bad, obviously everything has flaws and you will find something to complain about if you try, but I'd rather stop playing the game entirely than go back to carpal-tunnel-inducing finger-breaking melee and braindead AOE abilities.

The game is the best it has ever been and I hope to see more AOE weapons, as well as more weapons with aimlock/homing missiles, as those have a chance to compete with AOE.

[Eluminary]

Dont worry about it as the numbers of people using the same weapon go up it will be nerfed.  Everyone used to used the tonkor all the time too it comes and goes.

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

Here's my thinking on AOE explosive weapons. They need to have a special ammo type of their own that is far more rare than just converting rifle ammo over. Almost like sniper ammo but more rare.

It needs to be more of a situational use rather than brainless spam fest. If they're gonna be more deadly and far more efficient than hitscan single target weapons there needs to be a give and take as to their sustained usability. 

Also the launcher weapons with substantial clip sizes needs to have their ammo pool drastically reduced.

I'm not saying nerf to damage but nerf to availability of ammo. It shouldn't be able to continuously fire non stop with out regard for ammo consumption. Just poorly thought out mechanic to make already easy content even more easy. 

But people will always find a way around things to become a new meta for what's allowed.

In most of the shooters I have played in my life its the big daddy explosive weapons that are usually the situational uses for when things get hairy. DE needs to stop creating their own funnel of aoe weapon creations to allow for more desired diversity. But we all know what's fun is what sells. Idk I guess the aoe weapons just make the game boring because of how often we can use them rather them being situational. 

TLDR: I'm all for aoe weapons, I just don't think their ammo should be as easily and commonly available, nor should the ammo pool be as large. 

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

 I think self damage shouldn't of been completely wiped but just be like 25% of damage so there's risk but it's not a 1 hit kill risk. Just to make people actually aim at groups of enemies 

That wouldnt help at all. Not even the 90% reduction helped. We just dont have the effective health to take 10% damage from hits that deal millions.

[Yamazuki]

12 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

🤔 Maybe they’re giving more options for faster grind? It would run counter to what I’d expect, but… I mean, what are AoE weapons being used for?

If DE wanted people to grind quicker they would either:

-Not have abysmal drop rates

-Not have so much of the content operate on a set timer

Having aoe doesn't make survival/spy/most bounties/etc go by quicker. It just nets you more kills which doesn't matter when much of the game's grind isn't tied to killing trash enemies.

Getting more kills just makes people feel good and explosive weapons in general have been popular across multiple games. DE also just has tunnel vision when it comes to designing as pointed out earlier.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

23 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

That wouldnt help at all. Not even the 90% reduction helped. We just dont have the effective health to take 10% damage from hits that deal millions.

Yeah but there's not much we can do outside of nerfing damage to balance them out. Ammo reduction isn't much help cause of mutation mods. 

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

14 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

🤔 Maybe they’re giving more options for faster grind? It would run counter to what I’d expect, but… I mean, what are AoE weapons being used for?

Clearing trash mobs. It’s what AOE is for in literally every game. It’s wave clear.