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Ore Gaze is pretty dismal.


RealPandemonium
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In its current incarnation Ore Gaze is pretty much useless.  Because of the way Petrify works, it doesn't play well with other looting abilities like Pilfering Swarm and Pilfering Strangledome, which require enemies to walk into them to take effect (a petrified enemy can't move.)  It also for the same reasons doesn't mesh well with the most popular farming strategies, which favor staying in one place and letting the enemies come to the warframes rather than the other way around.  

So, we have an ability which is mainly only good for solo farming.  However, its base loot rate is only 25%.  Atlas needs a huge power strength investment to get his loot rate to ~60% to be competitive with Nekors and Khora (who don't have to invest anything to have that rate) but, given the clunkiness of this ability its lack of team-friendliness, it feels like its rate should be much higher. 

Petrify is also very clunky. Because its cone is narrow and starts at Atlas' position rather than at the player's POV, the sweet spot for petrifying enemies is really only a small cross-section of its total arc, starting near the edge of its range (14m at base.)  This makes you need to add a substantial amount of power range to hope to tag more than a couple of enemies per cast.   The change from a channel to a single-cast ability also hurt petrify because you have to spam it now to catch all the enemies with it instead of just steadily sweeping it across the room.  Ore Gaze was also nerfed from a 50% base rate to a 25% base rate at this time, supposedly because the new Petrify should be easy to use, but the rework ultimately had the opposite effect.  The spamminess makes it more frustrating to tag all the enemies with it and makes it less time-efficient because you spend all your time petrifying.  It's actually quite similar to Nekros' old desecrate where he had an obligation to press 3 all day instead of playing, but much worse.   The old Desecrate at least had a huge radius and 360 degrees of coverage; Ore Gaze is way, way worse in every way.

It also feels really bad to mod for this augment.  You have to pump power strength, but this tanks efficiency and leaves little room for range-boosting mods.  You also need a duration mod because otherwise the enemies unpetrify before you can kill them.  This leaves almost no room for range mods, and you end up with a very expensive Petrify (that you're supposed to spam!) with short range and very finicky targeting.  AND it's worse than all the other loot abilities in both solo and team play.  At best you can mod an Ore Gaze that has a similar rate to Nekros and Khora, but is worse in every way.

I came back to the game after a few years' break and was impressed at all the QoL changes that made it in while I was gone.  However, Ore Gaze stands in stark contrast to all of the good stuff that pleasantly surprised me.  Give it some love!  

Edited by RealPandemonium
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1 hour ago, -AncientWarrior- said:

I even tried it on Nekros thinking it would work in conjunction with him but its just too clunky as the OP said.. shame really :)

Imho, it's not that clunky (I have tried Sevagoths healing dash so I know what I'm talking about, heh) but it just not worth the slot. I've put some strength but I've not seen any change in my loot.

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1 hour ago, quxier said:

Imho, it's not that clunky (I have tried Sevagoths healing dash so I know what I'm talking about, heh) but it just not worth the slot. I've put some strength but I've not seen any change in my loot.

You nailed it. It just isn't worth the slot because the additional loot tradeoff for a mod slot isn't really that good. 25% base loot chance is pretty darn low. Especially on an ability that is relatively expensive considering the other loot abilities. 

Pilfering Strangledome (augment)
65% chance
100 Energy
20s duration (constantly affects targets during this time)

Desecrate
54% chance (rolled every 2s)
10 energy
10 energy per corpse consumed

Pilfering Swarm (augment)
100% chance
50-100 energy
20s duration (constantly affects targets during this time)

Ore Gaze (augment)
25% chance (moddable)
75 energy
20s duration but does not afflict more targets

 

Ore Gaze is the only one-shot loot ability of those listed above. With a base cost of 75 energy and a very low 25% loot chance it is markedly worse than the other options. To make Ore Gaze competitive with the other loot options it would need a much reduced cost, ability to afflict more targets or significantly higher loot chance (50% unmoddable would be fine). The only thing about Ore Gaze that makes it better than the others is the fact that it can be used on all frames. For this reason it may make sense to not buff it otherwise lots of people would just slap on Ore Gaze to give bonus loot to their builds.

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1 hour ago, quxier said:

Imho, it's not that clunky (I have tried Sevagoths healing dash so I know what I'm talking about, heh) but it just not worth the slot. I've put some strength but I've not seen any change in my loot.

When I said clunky I mean in comparison to the others that work on an area .. Ore gaze seems to affect only 1 or 2 nme at a time.. but yes like you said its definately not worth the slot at all..

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3 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

 The spamminess makes it more frustrating to tag all the enemies with it and makes it less time-efficient because you spend all your time petrifying.  It's actually quite similar to Nekros' old desecrate where he had an obligation to press 3 all day instead of playing, but much worse.

How is a 0.3s 36m aoe that CCs, enables your gameloop and buffs damage by~ 32 to 80% getting a 21~44% extra loot chance as bad as a 1.8s animation that needs to be spammed and is the only gameplay you experience even possible to compare? Especially since ore gaze is a optional augment not a base effect.

Atlas relishes range due to how his 1 and 4 on cast stun work (and due to 50/170+x3 working really solid with 2-3 free slots depending on forma you wanna invest if you dont wanna go 265+ survival setup) so free to use 20-40% loot you can overlap multiple times vs a static 1 tentacle field/2 jungle jim areas seems mostly like a worthwhile trade.


Dont see much reason for nor against returning it to 50% but i guess DE would then make it unmoddable value like the other loot augments.

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32 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

How is a 0.3s 36m aoe that CCs, enables your gameloop and buffs damage by~ 32 to 80% getting a 21~44% extra loot chance as bad as a 1.8s animation that needs to be spammed and is the only gameplay you experience even possible to compare? Especially since ore gaze is a optional augment not a base effect.

If you mod for power strength it won't be 36m and even if you do it will still miss enemies standing right next to you if they're not directly in front of your face.  If you want to petrify ever enemy in the room you will be doing little else besides pressing 3 as more and more enemies filter in.  And your squad will resent you for it because those enemies wont reach the strangledome/tentacles.  I am talking about Ore Gaze (for the purpose of farming drops en masse) and not petrify as a whole.  

32 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Atlas relishes range due to how his 1 and 4 on cast stun work (and due to 50/170+x3 working really solid with 2-3 free slots depending on forma you wanna invest if you dont wanna go 265+ survival setup) so free to use 20-40% loot you can overlap multiple times vs a static 1 tentacle field/2 jungle jim areas seems mostly like a worthwhile trade.

If you're farming solo, Nekros, and Khora are easier to use than Atlas, and Hydroid is not only easier to use but also much more effective in terms of rate.  Can you communicate the mod setup in plain English, since I don't understand the notation?  I know how to mod warframes.  Adding Ore Gaze to your generic Atlas setup is pointless except for collecting codex scans.  The incidental extra loot won't amount to much; you might as well put on a mod that does something useful.  

32 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Dont see much reason for nor against returning it to 50% but i guess DE would then make it unmoddable value like the other loot augments.

In the present situation that might be the best option but Atlas would still not be used in farming parties.  I used him to great effect for farming in the pre-rework days but the nerf to his base rate alongside the change to shattered corpses being unlootable have made him totally obsolete as a loot frame.  Even a Prowl Ivara is a more consistent looter than Ore Gaze Atlas in his current state.  

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16 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

If you mod for power strength it won't be 36m and even if you do it will still miss enemies standing right next to you if they're not directly in front of your face. 

You dont need over 180% strength (or 100% of going for the Rheap aug, tho then you wouldnt use ore gaze). And if surrounded you have 4 for petrification but again that would be if going Rheap.

16 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

If you want to petrify ever enemy in the room you will be doing little else besides pressing 3 as more and more enemies filter in. 

No, 36 or even just 20~25m on a 60 degree cone is more than sufficient to cover most good farming tile rooms (its why a no range mod nekros still works in almost all content for loot if the party doesnt split up, tho 145% min is better just to guarantee coverage and be less limiting on bone papa positioning). And spawns even on SP arent quick enough for you to do it more often than every 4-8s depending on tile (as such is same as if going regularly through a mission shooting out a petrify every 2 smack loops), especially not if farming thus funneling enemies.

16 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

If you're farming solo, Nekros, and Khora are easier to use than Atlas, and Hydroid is not only easier to use but also much more effective in terms of rate. 

Naturally for nekros, but khora and hydroid cases are entirely up to perference of gameloop. Hydroid is guaranteed extra loot rolls, but slowest, Khora is fastest if you sacrifice loot or slower but still higher % if wall dome camping, atlas asks the most enemy awareness and longest damage ramp with lowest drop rate but most active gameloop and over large ground/when not camping higher drop rates than khora (since petrified everything>only enemies in dome, that is ofc assuming you/you and potential party kill enemies at same pace in both comparisons).

16 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

Adding Ore Gaze to your generic Atlas setup is pointless except for collecting codex scans.  The incidental extra loot won't amount to much; you might as well put on a mod that does something useful.  

So a time saver augment is doing what a time saver augment does. Ok. and extra loots value/how much it amounts to depends on you. 45% extra loot if casually playing around/doing fissures really doesnt seem a bad deal in exchange for reducing the amount you overkill enemies by some 60%.

16 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

In the present situation that might be the best option but Atlas would still not be used in farming parties.  I used him to great effect for farming in the pre-rework days but the nerf to his base rate alongside the change to shattered corpses being unlootable have made him totally obsolete as a loot frame.  Even a Prowl Ivara is a more consistent looter than Ore Gaze Atlas in his current state.  

1) Petrify loot drop from petrify effect has no stacking block with another loot bonus nor does it have any equivalent (like ivaras pickpocketing). Shattered enemies body chunks are still desecrated and if tagged by khora or hydroid or smacked by a somehow killed wu it still works.
2) Loot frame farm stacks aint about consistency, but speed. Its why Ivara isnt used at all for prowl in loot comps (but can be for navigator aoe memes). Fact that you can smack ore gaze on hydroid (or nekros, even if he is better off being the gloom or larva person) just means that the otherwise meh for instant floor wipes kit of atlas doesnt compete.
Its not petrify nor his fists, but walls and the 2 buddies that are better off being summoned for a petrify and then instantly blown up for rubble that are holding his (general, but also) loot frame position back.
3) Tho as said, i dont care if they return it to 50%, just saying DE would likely then nerf it to no longer be effected by power strength.

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23 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

Because of the way Petrify works, it doesn't play well with other looting abilities like Pilfering Swarm and Pilfering Strangledome, which require enemies to walk into them to take effect (a petrified enemy can't move.)

I think you may have missed a point here:

The bonus drop from Ore Gaze does not even stack with those abilities, don't even try to use it with them.

The three abilities affect 'on death' drops and cancel each other out. So while each gives you a chance to double your loot drop on death of the enemy, you only ever get a second, you never get a third.

Ore Gaze Atlas is great in a group with Nekros, for example, because his Loot ability affects enemies after they're dead, and the death of a Petrified enemy produces additional body parts for a Nekros to Desecrate.

But none of the 'on death' abilities stack with each other, they cancel out.

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9 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I think you may have missed a point here:

The bonus drop from Ore Gaze does not even stack with those abilities, don't even try to use it with them.

The three abilities affect 'on death' drops and cancel each other out. So while each gives you a chance to double your loot drop on death of the enemy, you only ever get a second, you never get a third.

Ore Gaze Atlas is great in a group with Nekros, for example, because his Loot ability affects enemies after they're dead, and the death of a Petrified enemy produces additional body parts for a Nekros to Desecrate.

But none of the 'on death' abilities stack with each other, they cancel out.

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12 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

be07559b0c.png

Yes, and what this doesn't make clear is this: the trigger for Ore Gaze dropping extra loot is if the enemy is Killed while Petrified.

As the notes say, an enemy can't 'die' twice. They either die under the influence of Petrification, or they die under the influence of the Strangledome/Tentacle CC.

They don't stack.

It's the same as this info not explaining that 'looting while alive', which Ivara does, loots the same drop instance as the 'on kill' instance, meaning that after you loot with Ivara that enemy will not drop anything on death unless under the influence of another 'loot on death' ability.

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2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Yes, and what this doesn't make clear is this: the trigger for Ore Gaze dropping extra loot is if the enemy is Killed while Petrified.

As the notes say, an enemy can't 'die' twice. They either die under the influence of Petrification, or they die under the influence of the Strangledome/Tentacle CC.

They don't stack.

It's the same as this info not explaining that 'looting while alive', which Ivara does, loots the same drop instance as the 'on kill' instance, meaning that after you loot with Ivara that enemy will not drop anything on death unless under the influence of another 'loot on death' ability.

What you are saying and what that wiki are saying seem to conflict. The wiki specifically says that multiple loot drops can occur from each of the respective sources independently.

Are you sure ivara blocks the on death loot chance? The wiki appears to be saying otherwise.

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