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Limbo passive augment - damage enemies & players


quxier
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Limbo & players cannot damage enemies in the different plane (e.g. you, being in the Rift, cannot damage enemies outside of the Rift) and vice versa.

 

What if you (players & enemies) can damage each other?

Limbo & players could have some damage reduction (e.g. 75%  maybe moded by strength). Limbo in addition, as "master of the Rift" could have additional damage reduction (e.g. +10).

Enemies would take 80% damage (more?).

Mod rank affects how much damage reduction & damage to enemies you take.

- rank 0: 95% damage reduction & 40% damage to enemies

- rank 3: 75% damage reduction & 80% damage to enemies

 

All numbers should be changed if necessary. My main reason to make this augment is for Limbo & co to not be useless on the different plane while still being pretty safe (depending on mod rank).

 

What do you think players. Am I missing something crucial?

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1 hour ago, quxier said:

Limbo & players cannot damage enemies in the different plane

Not entirely true. Powers and operators still work as normal. This means players can use it as a strong def measure.

 

TBH, i never liked limbo, playing him or seeing him in missions. But after Limbo prime came out and i started using him myself i found hes not so bad. Alot of issues people have with him is that they just dont understand how he works. Even if im playing with a limbo, i never find them annoying anymore, and even enjoy the massive energy regen the rift gives you.

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The Rift is just a Limbo tool that can be used in many ways. Additionally, Warframe's powers can do damage enemies no matter what plane of the rift they are on.

In addition, the Rift also serves to control. It is not just one more power that makes you defend better. (Like Gaara's or Baruuk's resistance)

You just have to understand how it works and that way you will be very effective with Limbo, so you avoid any counter that the Warframe has. I do not see the need for that change, perhaps some other detail could be, but the one you just specified, no.

Edited by AJAL8000
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If your issue is Limbos are being a hinderance, I find it unlikely they would be equipping this augment in the first place, given he's mostly picked to create a zone where no damage is taken [mostly] or to cc enemies. Even with DR, that's still not enough to prevent some objectives from being deleted; and if you're doing low level content, then your Operator and even general abilities will kill enemies regardless.

If you actually play Limbo, it becomes a non-issue to play with other Limbos, even when they misuse him. He's not really popular enough for this to be much of an issue either.

If anything, maybe DE could add more clarity [make it more obvious] as to what's in the rift so less people mindlessly hit something with a normal weapon that they can't do damage to with.

Edited by Yamazuki
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8 hours ago, chaotea said:
9 hours ago, quxier said:

 

Not entirely true. Powers and operators still work as normal. This means players can use it as a strong def measure.

6 hours ago, AJAL8000 said:

Warframe's powers can do damage enemies no matter what plane of the rift they are on.

That's right. However not everyone uses such abilities.

6 hours ago, AJAL8000 said:

You just have to understand how it works and that way you will be very effective with Limbo, so you avoid any counter that the Warframe has. I do not see the need for that change, perhaps some other detail could be, but the one you just specified, no.

But you don't use any abilities (passive only you said). I want Limbo to use abilities.

6 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

Even with DR, that's still not enough to prevent some objectives from being deleted; and if you're doing low level content, then your Operator and even general abilities will kill enemies regardless.

Well... we have stasis. But good points.

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hace 2 horas, quxier dijo:

But you don't use any abilities (passive only you said). I want Limbo to use abilities.

Oh, but of course I do. Depending on what the mission calls for, I use all or part of the powers. In this case I only limit myself to using the passive, but it is perfectly possible to do it using powers, the same in the other missions. Especially in interceptions it is possible to use Limbo's powers to the maximum, being able to control the entire map within the Rift if you use it well.

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hace 2 horas, quxier dijo:

That's right. However not everyone uses such abilities.

I consider this to be a problem that is fixed simply by learning to use Limbo well. That at least in general, I have not seen that it affected much the gameplay of the others.

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6 hours ago, AJAL8000 said:

I consider this to be a problem that is fixed simply by learning to use Limbo well. That at least in general, I have not seen that it affected much the gameplay of the others.

Learning Limbo well is much harder and/or require much more communication than others. You can, for example, cast Heal/hp mote or cast will-o-wisp without negatively impacting yourself or other players. Try this with Limbo. Some abilities won't work (3rd). Some may cause problems (1st & 4th - cannot kill some enemies).

6 hours ago, AJAL8000 said:

Oh, but of course I do. Depending on what the mission calls for, I use all or part of the powers. In this case I only limit myself to using the passive, but it is perfectly possible to do it using powers, the same in the other missions. Especially in interceptions it is possible to use Limbo's powers to the maximum, being able to control the entire map within the Rift if you use it well.

I don't mean it's impossible. It's just requires much more effort than, probably, most frames. It's not bad on it's own. But it makes some people not use its abilities. At all. And that's bad.

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hace 43 minutos, quxier dijo:

I don't mean it's impossible. It's just requires much more effort than, probably, most frames.

Actually, with Limbo it is particularly easy to do that. In fact, it is one of the offers better control because it can put all the enemies inside the Rift and stop them in time.

 

hace 43 minutos, quxier dijo:

Learning Limbo well is much harder and/or require much more communication than others. You can, for example, cast Heal/hp mote or cast will-o-wisp without negatively impacting yourself or other players. Try this with Limbo. Some abilities won't work (3rd). Some may cause problems (1st & 4th - cannot kill some enemies).

I mean, it is one of the most difficult to learn. But you don't really even have to communicate with your team if you know what you're doing. 

On the other hand, no, Limbo's powers are not made to kill enemies. :suspicion:

I mean, they can kill, but at low levels by themselves, more than anything they help you to kill them by yourself easily and without taking any or very little damage in the process. (In addition to controlling enemies and defending objectives)

I did not understand your example well. But are you referring to the Limbo's mod boost that makes you heal your allies with 1? Well if you mean that, it is simply better not to wear it as it is complicated to use (it is usually used to help in Tridolon at most, healing the lures and protect them)

On the other hand, you do mean powers from other Warframes, as I said before. These are not stopped by the Rift, so Wisp can easily put the "flowers" on him and the other players will pick it up without problems. Or Trinity can use Bless (4) and there would be no problem either.

And also, do you really think the third skill doesn't work? If that's what you mean, well actually, it's extremely useful for trapping enemies within the Rift! With that ability you control all the enemies on a map if you want and very easily.
(The third ability is like Saryn's 1, but less contagious and what infects is the Rift, although good, you have to know how to use it if you want to effectively infect enemies with the Rift, as I said before, if you do it correctly, all enemies on the map can be in the Rift)

Edited by AJAL8000
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hace 15 horas, AJAL8000 dijo:

The Rift is just a Limbo tool that can be used in many ways. Additionally, Warframe's powers can do damage enemies no matter what plane of the rift they are on.

In addition, the Rift also serves to control. It is not just one more power that makes you defend better. (Like Gaara's or Baruuk's resistance)

You just have to understand how it works and that way you will be very effective with Limbo, so you avoid any counter that the Warframe has. I do not see the need for that change, perhaps some other detail could be, but the one you just specified, no.

The point is, is that if you know how to use it well, it can be used for a huge number of situations.
Limbo can protect targets very well (and allies if needed), can control maps extremely well if necessary and besides, thanks to its passives, it can easily regenerate energy and survive various situations (like the video).
With Limbo you can, for example, put a Barruk inside the Rift while it uses the 4. Making it untouchable and at the same time, still being able to do damage. Same with Excalibur and a long etc.
But like I said, you have to know what you do.

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15 hours ago, AJAL8000 said:

I did not understand your example well. But are you referring to the Limbo's mod boost that makes you heal your allies with 1? Well if you mean that, it is simply better not to wear it as it is complicated to use (it is usually used to help in Tridolon at most, healing the lures and protect them)

I don't mean healing or any kind of boost.

I mean "press ability key" and get some sort buff, damage or something that won't mess anything. Something that is useful in some way. Ability that you don't have think how & when to use or it would cause some problems.  Wisp can put HP mote that heals you and your teammates (to put it simply). If you put it in wrong time you just won't heal a player or something.

On other hand try Limbo stuffs:

- Banish someone. If it's player then they cannot kill some enemies. If it's enemy a player might not kill it (not even see them because effects are "not equal" in this game).

- put stasis - no effect if there are not enemies in the Rift

- Surge (3rd) - you divide enemies that can be killed in the Rift and outside of it

- Cataclysm - divide area, similar to above

15 hours ago, AJAL8000 said:

And also, do you really think the third skill doesn't work? If that's what you mean, well actually, it's extremely useful for trapping enemies within the Rift! With that ability you control all the enemies on a map if you want and very easily.

Go to mission and just press 3. What happens? It says "invalid target".

It's useful if you know how to use it but useless in certain situations.

 

 

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hace 1 hora, quxier dijo:

Go to mission and just press 3. What happens? It says "invalid target".

It's useful if you know how to use it but useless in certain situations.

You're definitely not getting that Warframe xd.
The 3 is applied in a defined Radius area and affects all the enemies that are already inside the Rift, in this way you trap them, since when they try to exit, the Rift instance time is reset. So you can basically have enemies forever trapped inside the Rift, thanks to the third ability.
On the other hand, it is in a large area, like this:

g1.png

The 3 is extremely easy to apply if you know what you are doing.

hace 1 hora, quxier dijo:

I mean "press ability key" and get some sort buff, damage or something that won't mess anything. Something that is useful in some way. Ability that you don't have think how & when to use or it would cause some problems.  Wisp can put HP mote that heals you and your teammates (to put it simply). If you put it in wrong time you just won't heal a player or something.

So yes, probably Limbo may need an increase that can make it easier but as you mentioned, it seems to me that it would simply be a "Baruuk" but more OP because obviously 95% damage reduction is quite high at no cost. (For more that does not have a high damage buff, with current weapons you can easily kill much more than a Baruuk)

I guess certain skills could be buffed even more. But, I feel that that would already break the game a lot, if already Limbo many times breaks the mechanics that the game tries to make you follow, making the missions easier or making the objectives to follow very simple to do.

The thing is, everything that you mention here is only to see the simplest "against", but not to see its very varied uses.

I think that before suggesting changes to a Warframe, you should first find out more about how it works and all its maximum capabilities.

Limbo is not a simple "I activate these powers and I go to the brute", you have to think more with him. This is why it is a Warframe that is not usually recommended for newbies.

If you want to go rough without thinking much all the time, and play without thinking, there are several other Warframes where you hardly have to think to get benefits. A clear example is Inaros, whose abilities are EXTREMELY simple and easy to understand. (Life goes brrrrr) other examples are Wukong or Octavia (that's why they are more recommended for newbies).

Edited by AJAL8000
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hace 2 horas, quxier dijo:

I mean "press ability key" and get some sort buff, damage or something that won't mess anything. Something that is useful in some way

Maybe some little buffs could be, to give it more "support". But if you gave Limbo more things, like doing damage with his abilities. Would be good at:
-Defend
-Control
-Attack
-Support
-Tank


And this would already be too much. Currently Limbo stands out more and only in:
-Defend
-Control

- "Tank" - As seen in the video, Limbo's intangibility could be considered as "tank", in other games, mechanics like this are known as Tank or Dodge.
- "Support" - Since it grants some energy when you are inside the Rift, apart from protecting almost all the damage (It is also true that sometimes in very, very rare occasions, the Rift is somewhat inconsistent. Especially in open worlds), is somewhat supportive, but does not stand out for it.

Limbo cannot kill with his abilities. I think if it did, it would obviously be broken. There is an increase that makes Limbo do more damage, but he is limited to damage with Weapons.

Giving him more things, I think maybe it would be too much. And drastically changing his current powers I don't consider to be an option, since you would literally take away everything that Limbo does in itself.

Edited by AJAL8000
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You should also consider what the other increases actually do:

Rift Torrent(3): If you use it well, it can give you a boost of around 4000% more damage. (Sometimes more, sometimes less)

Warframe_Screenshot_2020.11.28_-_14.53.2

Rift Haven(1): Being a percentage heal, you can heal allies quite well (Like the Lures) and well, on many occasions it is a good addition. (I mean, you can heal an Inaros Prime with all the Life mods equipped in only 4 activations of the default 1 and in only 2 if you go with 200% power strength, although as I said above, it is rarely used) . Which gives Limbo a bit more support.

Cataclysmic Continuum(4): Well this is pretty obvious, it can help to have a more durable Cataclysmic. In some cases "Infinite", but they are in very particular cases.

In conclusion, although it is true that Limbo could add more things to it, the truth is that if it is not done well, this would break its balance.

I at least do not feel that the changes and points that you mention regarding the powers of Limbo, really have correlation with the concept and the class of Warframe that is Limbo.

 

Edited by AJAL8000
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I would rather have a passive augment mod that once equipped, removes the portal that Limbo leaves behind when dashing into the rift and then he gets some unique bonus from it. Something like "rifted enemies have way point indicators on them" or "gains movement and parkour speed while in the rift" or "transition damage enemies take is changed from 300 impact to 10% of enemy's current health."

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Oh now that I think about it, you basically described a Rift Torrent but less powerful and simpler. But also like I said, trying to "imitate" other Warframes, I don't think it's a good concept for Limbo (in the sense that it's a more original concept).

I mean, if something like you describe applied, it would look a lot like other Warframes, it seems like too much of a change to me. Maybe it might even look like a new Warframe.

I think that, the concept is quite good (I mean, that of an agument mod that makes Limbo easier to use in Survival), but ufff, it needs a lot of specifications and changes so that it is not too different from the original concept of Limbo, make sense (because Dimensional Rift has rules to follow), and don't break the game.

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10 hours ago, AJAL8000 said:

You're definitely not getting that Warframe xd.

Me getting a frame has little to do with an argument.

10 hours ago, AJAL8000 said:

more OP because obviously 95% damage reduction is quite high at no cost. (For more that does not have a high damage buff, with current weapons you can easily kill much more than a Baruuk)

But you deal only 40% damage to enemies. Of course you can deal thousands of damage needed in some case but it's problem of balance of the game. 

10 hours ago, AJAL8000 said:

Limbo is not a simple "I activate these powers and I go to the brute", you have to think more with him. This is why it is a Warframe that is not usually recommended for newbies.

If you want to go rough without thinking much all the time, and play without thinking, there are several other Warframes where you hardly have to think to get benefits. A clear example is Inaros, whose abilities are EXTREMELY simple and easy to understand. (Life goes brrrrr) other examples are Wukong or Octavia (that's why they are more recommended for newbies).

It's not that I want to "go without thinking" all the time. It's just this is the only frame that won't allow me cast a single ability without thinking about consequences or if it will work.

Even Yareli that lots of people think is bad have at least one ability.

 

 

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On 2021-09-03 at 2:43 AM, AJAL8000 said:

The point is, is that if you know how to use it well, it can be used for a huge number of situations.
Limbo can protect targets very well (and allies if needed), can control maps extremely well if necessary and besides, thanks to its passives, it can easily regenerate energy and survive various situations (like the video).
With Limbo you can, for example, put a Barruk inside the Rift while it uses the 4. Making it untouchable and at the same time, still being able to do damage. Same with Excalibur and a long etc.
But like I said, you have to know what you do.

"VIDEO"

I'm sorry friend to disagree this but I watched 30 seconds of this video and didn't see Limbo shine.

I see Magus Lockdown, Kronem prime + Kuva nukor, and Limbo hitting the shift key a few times. (I think Limbo should be more fun than shift key)

Edited by Famecans
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hace 6 horas, Famecans dijo:

I'm sorry friend to disagree this but I watched 30 seconds of this video and didn't see Limbo shine.

I see Magus Lockdown, Kronem prime + Kuva nukor, and Limbo hitting the shift key a few times. (I think Limbo should be more fun than shift key)

Oh is Telos Boltace.

And it's Shield-Gating + Shift.

Honestly, if you see different parts of the video (I'm not saying you watch the whole video but more parts than just the beginning), I don't abuse the Magus Lockdown.

Just look at it carefully a little more.

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20 hours ago, AJAL8000 said:

Oh is Telos Boltace.

And it's Shield-Gating + Shift.

Honestly, if you see different parts of the video (I'm not saying you watch the whole video but more parts than just the beginning), I don't abuse the Magus Lockdown.

Just look at it carefully a little more.

I watched from 45:00 minutes and I like these gameplays in mot void, the title just says passive.

@topic: 75% of Limbo's abilities are disrupted by a nullifier, a very common enemy, this cannot be fixed by mods so most builds are focused on shield gating and Limbo Shift spam (a common build in other fragile frames) . There's a new runner nullifier with melee on the railjack that turns off the ability of any clumsy warframe.

Limbo is not prepared for high level enemies and runner nullifiers, it has a lot of power and fun but the energetic ballet is turned off by a very common enemy. Sorry buddy but the build of the video is universal and limbo is being used just to keep up with fashion.

You are a very experienced player, I liked, you have my like there on youtube but I would like the power of Limbo not to be so fragile/arbrary.

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