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Its time to remove affinity range - in every gamemode


DreisterDino
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On 2021-09-02 at 9:04 PM, DreisterDino said:

And regarding the exceptions:

  • if you play Harrow/Nidus for example its annoying if the other players are nuking everything left and right and you cannot get your Frame going. But going somewhere where you can get kills punishes both you and your teammates in regards of affinity.
  • everyone has certain frames he doesnt like to play with in a Squad: I for example hate Khora because the ragdolldome makes killing enemies with weapons pretty annoying. Same as above - i could go somewhere else so both Khora and me can do what we are supposed to do, but we get punished for it. I dont want to stand inside the dome doing nothing watching Khora doing everything just to be able to level my stuff.

These are some of the core problems with the games overall design

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23 hours ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

You could always use the flares from cetus to extend the range, funnfact they also extend trins bless range

Yep - I use this plus Vazarin if I'm grouping with lower players and want them to receive full benefit of Shared Affinity. Trinity and Harrow's abilities are also both affected by them.

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25 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Depending on which excavators spawn you can absolutely be outside of affinity range with two excavators running with two people on each excavator and everyone playing normally. On some maps even within the same room. If someone afks at spawn that makes it so much easier to recognize and report so that sounds like an upside to me.

My main objective isnt leveling but that doesnt mean it should not even be able to be a side objective. Hydron, ESO and Adaro are all nice for leveling but if those are your only options that gets boring so much quicker than if I could just level while playing the game normally. Part of this issue is that warframe kills only give you affinity for your frame, but when someone else kills with their frame you get it spread out with most of the affinity going to your weapons. If I could affinity spread out from my own frame kills I would never have to pretend to contribute to an ESO party by playing trinity or something.

Remember when I said that ambiguity can be manipulated? 1 excavator completed is definitely not enough, 2 maybe, 3...definitely? This question pops up - what's DE criteria that puts the the one being reported as legitimate leech? Honestly, we don't know; we have to let it cook and record it as it happens until we can confidently say "yeah, it's leeching". And even then we don't know if it went through or not.

Our definition of side objection doesn't align. To me, side objectives are something that happens in the back, getting a portion of what you could've have gotten if that was your main. Since part of the issue is from xp distribution then it would be better to change that instead of just opening the flood gates.

58 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Maybe you just judged some situations incorrectly with a gut feeling. That can happen to everyone, confirmation bias is powerful.

Keep that S&^% out. Honestly, the amount derailing that just ends up happening on uncalled things like this, unlike the one below, has become so prevalent. If you feel like you're done with me just say "Let's agree to disagree".

 

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vor 50 Minuten schrieb NekroArts:

Remember when I said that ambiguity can be manipulated? 1 excavator completed is definitely not enough, 2 maybe, 3...definitely? This question pops up - what's DE criteria that puts the the one being reported as legitimate leech? Honestly, we don't know; we have to let it cook and record it as it happens until we can confidently say "yeah, it's leeching". And even then we don't know if it went through or not.

Our definition of side objection doesn't align. To me, side objectives are something that happens in the back, getting a portion of what you could've have gotten if that was your main. Since part of the issue is from xp distribution then it would be better to change that instead of just opening the flood gates.

Keep that S&^% out. Honestly, the amount derailing that just ends up happening on uncalled things like this, unlike the one below, has become so prevalent. If you feel like you're done with me just say "Let's agree to disagree".

 

So you're the absolute authority on who is leeching and who isnt, kk have a nice day.

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On 2021-09-02 at 10:49 PM, Tesseract7777 said:

Affinity range is one of the only carrots that actually encourages Tenno to stay roughly near each other when doing stuff like Survival, etc. 

bs. people don't even stick together on a tiny map like Helene, even though they're only there for the affinity, and chances are the majority of the playerbase doesn't even know that there's an affinity range

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On 2021-09-03 at 3:45 AM, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

I think that belongs to feedback!

And yh, I agree. 👍 

I'm curious how Warframe abilities based on affinity range would work, if they'd remove that and change it to normal ranges, or forget about it and we have endless range abilities xD (I think it's only a few though)

“What do you guys think?”

Nope, sounds like a discussion to me dude.

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On 2021-09-03 at 3:40 AM, DreisterDino said:

I think the affinity range limitations dont have any reason to be in the game anymore.

In my opinion, it has no benefits and only reduces the fun in public groups.

 

Railjack made me notice that it is a lot more fun to play with randoms if affinity range is unlimited and you dont have to care about staying together.

I guess the "staying together" part might come up as a benefit for this system but lets be real:

  • the players who ignore their squad will continue to do so even if you ask them to stay together in most cases
  • also, should we even tell other players to not explore the map and find ayatans for example while other players do other stuff?
  • yes, Fosfor Blau/Rahd exists and i actually spam them when i level stuff. But imo thats just a poor bandaid which takes your ressources and forces you to keep track of another timed "ability" on top of all the other stuff thats going on. Finally, people still manage to even leave the increased affinity range..

 

The fact that we now have a "normal" survival mission with affinity range and a "railjack" survival without affinity range shows that there is no justification for this system in 2021 anymore. The Railjack Version becomes the exact same mission after the beginning, still affinity range is handled differently (i know that most likely they are unable to code it in a different way, but that doesnt invalidates my point i think).

 

I am just sick of trying to stay in affinity range with everyone when leveling stuff.

The process is slow enough already, i dont think we need this extra-hurdle.

And i dont want to tell my squadmates to stay together, in my experience either players want to stay together, or they dont - but a system like this doesnt change their behaviour.

 

What do you guys think?

If nothing else, the base 50m affinity range should be increased to at LEAST 100m so it can fill rooms like Hydron. Because in Hydron if two people go to either end of the defence arena, they can be outside each other’s affinity range 

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On 2021-09-03 at 3:49 AM, Tesseract7777 said:

I strongly disagree. 

Affinity range is one of the only carrots that actually encourages Tenno to stay roughly near each other when doing stuff like Survival, etc. 

It would just make the game more anti-coop, as we could all run off to completely different corners of the map and share xp, playing together but alone. 

What's the fun of playing with random Tenno if your idea of playing with random Tenno is to be so far apart that you aren't interacting with them? 

As one who ain't fond of AoE weapons anymore hugging with players spamming Bramma or Zarr or insert nuke name is anything but fun to me.

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9 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Except Affinity Range doesn't do squat. People still run off and do their own thing anyways, as you've observed. As you put it, those selfish people run off and abuse the good nature of those that stick together, and they do this regardless of the limited Affinity Range. It seems to me that the only one that cares about this range in these examples is you, so you're the one being punished while the players that run off alone aren't. A player that runs off takes away shared Affinity, spreads out drops, and thins out spawns, and you're the one who has to suffer from this.

But these are only issues because of the limited range. If Railjack's shared drops and unlimited Affinity Range were expanded to the rest of the game then a player that runs off wouldn't take away shared Affinity because you'd get their Affinity from anywhere, wouldn't spread out drops because you'd get what they pick up too, and the spawns wouldn't matter because you'd still benefit from them being killed anywhere in the map. This would no longer be harmful behaviour, and would actually benefit you because a player roaming around breaking boxes means you get more stuff too.

So help me understand why your solution to this problem is to cling to the existing system that clearly don't work?

 

When you have an option that works better than what the OP has suggested, that is already in place how is that clinging to anything?

People will describe what they are biased against in unreasonable ways, if for no other reason that to cause others to think of what they hold bias against in a negative way.  Retaining a functioning system, the best choice, is not clinging to anything.  There has yet to be any good argument presented on why affinity range should be removed, and many that have given good reason on why it should remain exactly as it is.

Interesting enough, it's the least experience people who have the most to train who are complaining about affinity range, not those of us who have already experienced the game, trained up most of our gear.  That in and of itself says a lot.

Just because some people run off playing like they do not understand the importance of teamwork when playing in groups, does not mean we should change the game mechanics so that those who currently do not behave like chickens with their head cut off, do so.  That makes no sense at all.

We do not have these issues because of affinity range, we have these issues because many people care more to glorify themselves in the eyes of complete strangers by getting high kill counts or finding something or breaking containers or selfishly using the mission to farm for themselves while others do the work.  Affinity range helps to prevent a lot of this.  If you want to experience the problem more, than what the OP suggest would make this even more an issue and problem than it already is.

When you remove your own motives and bias from your argument, and you just simply logically reason out what is best for everyone, it's retaining the current functioning system and not altering for the selfish reasons of a few bad players.  If you want affinity, then seek it in a group of pre-mades that behave for the benefit of the group, if you don't want to do that then simply do SO or Hydron or another small tileset or mission that causes people to stay within range.  There is no need to change affinity because there are already missions you can stay within affinity range to train your gear.  If you want to do it in railjack missions, then go with a pre-made group and not random pubs. 

I don't need affinity, I'm past that point and yet, I still see the importance of affinity range even to my own benefit, although it's not nearly as much as it is for a new player.  Plus, when random pub team mates are encouraged to stay grouped up, it allows me to help them easier.  And I do like helping others I am teamed up with.

With the current game mechanics being what they are, do you really want to be outside the affinity range when it also means being outside the buffs other players and their pets or companions might afford you?  With all these procs, do you really want to be way way way outside the range of all those benefits?  Naw, even though I can solo all the content, when playing with a group I still like buffs, I still like helping, I still like behaving as a contributing factor to the group effort.  If you want to behave like a solo player, then play solo and if yo can't, the git gud and play solo.  So long as you are in a group considered a team it's your best option, and to the benefit of you and everyone else, if you stay within affinity range always.

Speaking of railjack missions, because people don't play as a group and go off to far flung places on the map of their own accord, many times in relic missions people do not get what they need to open their relic.  Would you also change that?

Why run missions at all, just simply get a certain amount of affinity per day along with all the other things you might get in a mission.  I mean why even play with other people.  What it seems to me people are saying is they want to behave as solo players, and honestly I get that I play a lot of content solo because I like taking my time, exploring, seeing things.  But when I am in a group, I play as a group not as an individual.  If you are in a group and not adding value to the group then you shouldn't be playing in a group and you should not benefit from their work by getting affinity without contributing to the group effort.  Period.  You want to argue it, go ahead, none of the arguments against affinity hold up when subjected to simple everyday logic, common sense.

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58 minutes ago, Nexeroff said:

Interesting enough, it's the least experience people who have the most to train who are complaining about affinity range, not those of us who have already experienced the game, trained up most of our gear.

He says, to an L1. 🤦‍♀️

58 minutes ago, Nexeroff said:

When you have an option that works better than what the OP has suggested, that is already in place how is that clinging to anything?

Better? You've explained multiple times that limited Affinity Range doesn't work... Like you have said, people still run off and do all the things you're complaining about even with a limited Affinity Range, so clearly it's not doing a whole lot to keep teams together. As far as I can tell, your solution to people continuing to do this anyways is to tell them to play solo, but they're not gonna listen to you no matter how much you complain and you're gonna keep running into this issue. The systems in place don't work, and continuing to rely on them will only result in more of the issues you bring up.

58 minutes ago, Nexeroff said:

There has yet to be any good argument presented on why affinity range should be removed, and many that have given good reason on why it should remain exactly as it is.

Sure, no good argument other than that you'd no longer have to worry about players running off because players who run off would actually benefit their team. Like, your complaint about people "selfishly using the mission to farm for themselves while others do the work" would literally be addressed with wider adoption of Railjack's loot and Affinity mechanics because the loot and Affinity those people would go to you, too! Players running off would suddenly be a good thing.

And the only good reasons why it should remain the way it is is over concerns about leeching being made worse, but leeching is already a problem that already needs to be solved and isn't being solved by the existing systems. Leeching could/would/should be better addressed by expanding anti-AFK and reporting, not relying on the limited Affinity Range that clearly isn't doing anything to solve it.

58 minutes ago, Nexeroff said:

Just because some people run off playing like they do not understand the importance of teamwork when playing in groups, does not mean we should change the game mechanics so that those who currently do not behave like chickens with their head cut off, do so.  That makes no sense at all.

That's not really the argument. The argument is that players are going to "behave like chickens with their head cut off" no matter how much you complain about it, so instead of relying on the ineffective mechanics currently in place it'd be better to change those mechanics so players who "do not understand the importance of teamwork when playing in groups" still benefit their team. What doesn't make sense is complaining about what you consider to be bad behaviour and then not wanting that behaviour to contribute to the team.

58 minutes ago, Nexeroff said:

With the current game mechanics being what they are, do you really want to be outside the affinity range when it also means being outside the buffs other players and their pets or companions might afford you?  With all these procs, do you really want to be way way way outside the range of all those benefits?

If I needed buffs or shared Affinity then sure, I'd stick around my team. But since I don't need other players' buffs or Affinity, for me it doesn't matter one bit. I couldn't care less. I'd much rather roam around and look for something to do than sit around half-AFK in the same room as the other 3 AoE-spamming players that end up in my squad. And as you've observed these wondrous benefits don't matter to many other players either, because they still run off on their own anyways.

So it seems to me that it'd be much better if me running off to do my own thing - which I can and will do no matter how much people complain - could at least benefit my teammates in some way. Then me running off to do my own thing - which I can and will continue to do regardless - would actually be helpful since my teammates would get all the loot that I find. Until then, I guess you'll just have to continue to put up with it. 🤷‍♀️

58 minutes ago, Nexeroff said:

many times in relic missions people do not get what they need to open their relic.  Would you also change that?

Duh? This feature is pretty great in Railjack, so rolling it out to regular missions would be great, too. If normal Fissure missions had shared Reactant pickups you'd never have to wait around at extract for someone to backtrack for more Reactants. You'd never have to watch a poor newbie get force extracted or extract on their own without getting to pick a reward. And you'd get more options to choose from when finishing the mission because no one would ever be missing any Reactant. This would benefit literally everyone.

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27 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

If I needed buffs or shared Affinity then sure, I'd stick around my team. But since I don't need other players' buffs or Affinity, for me it doesn't matter one bit. I couldn't care less. I'd much rather roam around and look for something to do than sit around half-AFK in the same room as the other 3 AoE-spamming players that end up in my squad. And as you've observed these wondrous benefits don't matter to many other players either, because they still run off on their own anyways.

I am only going to bother responding to this part of your post, and only to make a point.

If you don't need to play with other players, if you don't like it as much as you seem to not like it, if you don't need or want buffs or affinity then why play with anyone else, play solo.

I am maxed out, and even still I enjoy playing with other people.  I like helping others, it's just in my nature to be friendly like that.  I don't think so highly of myself, and appreciate buffs when others are playing a supporting role even if I don't need those buffs.  When I want to take my time and explore the map, and farm, and break open containers or look for sculps or anything of that nature, I just do it solo because I can.

If you have a problem with AOE spammers that end up in your squad, use a pre-made squad of friends, people you know or play solo.  If you want to explore, roam around, then go solo or with a squad of friends that are all okay with doing so.  If affinity doesn't mean anything to you, then why are you concerned so much about it?

And for players that these things are of no concern, and they run off and don't contribute or take advantage of these things, then they get no affinity.  You don't need affinity to train anything, it's a reward for playing specifically in a group of other people.  You are rewarded for staying in range to buff them, and they you, to help them and they you.  It's not something you are entitled to, or you receive when you run missions solo.

Why the OP is actually suggesting is to be rewarded for behaving outside the way the reward was intended to reward players for doing.  Do you even understand what affinity is?  It just seems like lazy people want a reward of affinity and not do what the intent behind that reward was.

So if I am giving a reward for someone doing something specific, then they say they no longer want to do that for the reward, but they still want the reward should I give them the reward for not doing what I was giving a reward for?

You are not entitled to affinity the same as you are entitled to xp when doing content solo and gaining xp for your kills, etc.  You are only deserving of affinity, that being gaining xp from other players when you benefit those other players by staying within that affinity range.  Do you get that?  Or does the entire game mechanic totally escape you?

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I think those that are asking for the removal of affinity range do not actually understand what affinity is.

Affinity = reward.  So what are you being rewarded for and what is the reward?  You get XP for playing close enough to other players that you benefit them, and they benefit you.  You get XP regardless so long as you are doing something, that is your reward for killing enemies, etc.  Your reward for playing in a group, close enough to res them when they go down, buff them if you can, or help them kill enemies is affinity, or XP that is called affinity.  And rightfully, that reward comes with a requirement that you stay within range to earn the reward.  If you go outside that range, you no longer benefit from that reward.

What the op is suggesting is that you are given the reward for not doing what the reward requires you to do, and being able to be outside the range of contributing to the group, by being closer and doing those things that require you being closer.

You are already rewarded for being in the mission if you actively kill enemies, and there is no range for that reward.  That is the only reward you deserve if you are not contributing to the group effort or helping others in your group.  If you choose to behave in a way that helps the group as a whole, you are rewarded with extra XP in the form of affinity, and rightfully so.

I would be totally okay with just removing affinity all together, if people are so adamant about receiving a reward they didn't earn, then just remove it totally so it's no longer a concern at all.  No extra XP for behaving as you should in a group effort anyway.  The only XP you receive is what you earn yourself from only your own efforts, nothing else.

Of course, those so eager to leach off other peoples gameplay without putting for effort that benefits the group will be up in arms about this suggestion, they seem to want all the rewards and to not do what is required to receive them.  I imagine those people will be upset with this suggestion.

I cannot fathom how people think they deserve a reward for doing nothing the reward requires, makes no sense. 

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38 minutes ago, Nexeroff said:

You are already rewarded for being in the mission if you actively kill enemies, and there is no range for that reward.  That is the only reward you deserve if you are not contributing to the group effort or helping others in your group.  If you choose to behave in a way that helps the group as a whole, you are rewarded with extra XP in the form of affinity, and rightfully so.

HOL UP

When you have a tad just slower connection, you are punished by spawning 15 seconds or whatever late in the mission, while everybody has already nuked out their way with AoE and you get no enemies to kill. This situation is 100 times more prevalent than "he doesn't do the things I WANT, therefore he's LEECHING".

Considering that nowdays players can clear entire room ahead of them, better share some of that affinity with those who are left behind with no fault of their own.

Affinity range is a solution for a problem that nowdays has no significance.

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1 hour ago, Hayrack said:

HOL UP

When you have a tad just slower connection, you are punished by spawning 15 seconds or whatever late in the mission, while everybody has already nuked out their way with AoE and you get no enemies to kill. This situation is 100 times more prevalent than "he doesn't do the things I WANT, therefore he's LEECHING".

Considering that nowdays players can clear entire room ahead of them, better share some of that affinity with those who are left behind with no fault of their own.

Affinity range is a solution for a problem that nowdays has no significance.

I feel I need to be clear, you have suggested I meant something I did not, and in doing so made it seem I meant something I clearly do not at all.  I did not say, nor insinuate that anyone should be doing what others want, or what I want.  I only want other people to have as much fun and enjoy the game as I do.  It doesn't bother me, nor do I care when people run off and don't contribute to the group effort, however, if they do so I also do not feel they deserve the reward given to those who do stay close to the group and contribute.  When I say they are selfish, I mean that they are playing for only their benefit even though they have clearly joined a mission wanting to be in a group for whatever reason they might have, and then do not play as a team but instead run off to do whatever it is they are doing.  So while others are completing the mission requirements, they are doing whatever they personally please and not contributing to the mission requirements.  I made absolutely no mention at all of anyone doing anything others want them to do. 

When people ignore the mission requirements and do so while others do them, while they run off to farm something or look for something that is what I refer to as leaching.  They cannot do it solo, or it's easier for them to do it in a group so instead of doing it solo as they should, they instead use others to complete the mission for them.  Those people do not deserve an affinity reward.  I never mentioned at any point, or said anything about anyone joining the mission late, and specially not about them having a slow internet connection.  It's obvious to anyone that someone entering a mission late is not leaching and certainly not intending only because they joined late.  That is ridicules.

I play with a friend in game that has a horrible connection, I myself live 45 min by boat from the nearest neighbor, so you can imagine my own internet access is not lightning fast.  So choosing who I play with, and playing with others in my same situation is a good option for me.  I might suggest you do the same.  If you have a problem with the way others play, then choose your group and play with those people.  Or, play solo.  I do almost everything in game solo.  I came back after being away for 2+ years and found steel to be nothing but crickets, and did it entirely solo.  Believe me, if I can do all the missions in Steel Path solo, anyone can easily enough.

I can't do some missions with certain frames in a pub or group of people I do not know because I can't get kills I need in order for those frames to be useful.  I came back and discovered Xaku, one of my absolute most favorite frames now, however, in order for it to be effective in a group I have to collect guns, if everyone kills enemies before I can do that then I'm just another frame with a weapon and cannot use any of my abilities, and since Xaku is obviously not a tank it puts me at a huge disadvantage.  Same this with Nidus, if I were to play Nidus in a way that I needed stacks.  So it becomes even more important that we have that affinity range, if people are staying closer and not moving away real fast then I might have a chance to collect stacks for Nidus or guns for Xaku.  If not, forget it.

 

Your slow connection is not DE's problem, nor the people you are playing with.

When you enter a mission late for a Lich or Sister, you get credit for everything that transpired previous to your arrival outside of XP and affinity. 

Affinity is an XP reward for working with your team, and staying close so you can add value as a team member.  When you enter a mission late for whatever reason, regardless if it's a slow internet connection or you just entered later you do not get any XP until you kill something, nor do you get any affinity because you have not even been in the team to contribute or be in or out of affinity range.

You are only thinking about your personal situation, and a very specific situation.  You made the claim "This situation is 100 times more prevalent" that is not true at all, that might be partially true in your specific case, under those very specific circumstances but it is not the case for 99% of the people playing, you again are only relating the topic at hand to your own personal issues, not the issues that affinity seeks to remedy.

If you are focused on training a weapon then you might only equip that weapon so that all weapon XP goes only to that waepon and is not split between all weapons regardless if training them or not.  You might do things differently if not focused.  If I am training a weapon, and I'm focusing on training that weapon, then I use a frame that provides benefits to the group I am with, and use those abilities to benefit them in a support role so that I make up for my lack of firepower contribution.  That does not mean I do not kill or contribute that way, only that my contribution is less than what it might normally be, so I not only want the affinity, but I feel I should also contribute in another different, significant way.

What I do not feel is that I would deserve any affinity, being that it is a reward for staying with your team, and contributing to that team effort, if I was not within range to benefit the team.

What it seems some people want, is the benefit of a reward they did not earn.  I'll explain one more time.

 

1.  Affinity = XP

2.  Affinity is a reward for staying close to team mates, and in doing so, benefiting them while staying close, and them you.

3.  In order to realize the benefits of a reward, you must comply with the conditions to deserve the reward, with affinity this is staying within a certain range of your team mates.  It is an added XP reward for specifically staying within range of your team mates.

4.  If you are not staying within range of your team mates, and thus, not earning the reward specifically given to players who remain within range of their team mates, how can you justify deserving that reward?

 

Again, the OP is suggesting that everyone should benefit from a reward that is specifically meant to benefit people who staying within a certain range of their team mates.  If you gave everyone that XP, then what would you be rewarding people for?  The OP would have been far better off suggesting an increase in XP you can earn, or suggesting to not reward people for staying in rage of their team mates at all.  Personally, most people in random pubs seem to behave selfishly, not many even consider affinity because when they train frames or weapons they mostly do in SO or Hydron, not in missions.  I would like to see affinity just removed all together, and give people a boost to XP gain in a training mission that would be like Hydron where they can just all kill enemies on a small tile set and earn extra XP for doing so.  I would like to see a lot more solo content because lets be honest, regardless of how awesome the community is, people just behave poorly in missions a lot of times.

If you do not earn a reward, you do not deserve that reward.  Giving people affinity for not doing what the reward was intended to reward sounds really weird to me, I don't understand why anyone would think this is even an option.

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Part of the reason that Hydron is used for leveling over so many other things is the small map ensures far more reliable group affinity buffs for each enemy kill.  Unlimited affinity range and universal squad pickup need to be added to every game mode.  There's already a plague of AFK people with these systems in place so they obviously do nothing to keep anyone honest and all they actually do is limit what people can do. 

Here's the rub though.  Pay attention to game mechanics and what DE does and you'll see how hard they nickel and dime everyone in the name of grind.  If a group of newer players could go into a mission, split up and loot the whole thing with all affinity and resources shared then they might be less likely to buy a booster or two.  They do not care about QOL or fun they care about their bottom line.

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I'm definitely in agreement with the OP: Affinity range only existed to limit the ability for players to AFK leech, but in practice hasn't done a great job of preventing that issue, while causing more inconvenience than it solved. I would be in support of at least testing the removal of Affinity range limitations in order to see how that would change player behavior, and then see whether that should be implemented permanently.

There are some knock-on effects to consider, though, namely abilities tied to Affinity range like Trinity's Blessing and Harrow's Covenant: with the removal of that limitation, those abilities would either need their own range, or could be made global. Personally, I'd be more in favor of the latter, as I don't think it would make the affected frames overpowered by any stretch and, in both cases, would also make them a lot more responsive whenever an ally's in need of protection. 

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10 hours ago, Nexeroff said:

play solo.

Well, too bad. You can't make me. You have no power over how other players behave in PUGs, and you can complain as much as you like but you're never going to see anything change until the mechanics change. Either the mechanics change and the problems you bring up are addressed, or nothing changes and I guess you can keep putting up with it.

10 hours ago, Nexeroff said:

it's a reward for playing specifically in a group of other people.  You are rewarded for staying in range to buff them, and they you, to help them and they you.

No, it's a punishment, and not for the person who roams. It's a punishment for the rest of the team because they lose out on the Affinity and items dropped elsewhere in the map.

10 hours ago, Nexeroff said:

You are only deserving of affinity, that being gaining xp from other players when you benefit those other players by staying within that affinity range.

You do realize that if Railjack's mechanics were more widely adopted, then all players would always benefit all other players? I could be roaming around helping my team, which sounds a lot better than me roaming around - which I'm gonna do anyways - wasting drops and Affinity. Do you get that?

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Other than with the introduction of Railjack, how many people even leech specifically for affinity in general content? Anytime I've encountered someone leeching outside of ESO/Railjack, they weren't leveling anything and were just leeching for the rewards, which don't require you be with the team.

The issue of leeching is something that requires action from DE, at least until automated systems gets good enough to understand context and then we go into a period where basically every game is automatically moderated with no human interaction beyond fixing rare false positives.

People leech because the risk of any loss is minimal, and they're going to regardless of what the affinity range is set to.

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38 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

You do realize that if Railjack's mechanics were more widely adopted, then all players would always benefit all other players? I could be roaming around helping my team, which sounds a lot better than me roaming around - which I'm gonna do anyways - wasting drops and Affinity. Do you get that?

This too I think is a good point to bring up: Railjack not only has global Affinity sharing, but also global loot collection as well -- players don't have to mark anything for others to traipse through the map and pick up, they automatically collect everything they get for their whole team, as is the case already with credits. It's as cooperative as it gets for a looter shooter, and it makes those missions run much smoother -- including indoors. I think it would be absolutely worth doing an experiment where Railjack-style global loot gets generalized to all missions, and then make that change permanent if it goes well. There doesn't seem to be any above-average number of Railjack leeches, so I suspect that change wouldn't promote AFK play elsewhere either.

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On 2021-09-02 at 9:40 PM, DreisterDino said:

 

  • the players who ignore their squad will continue to do so even if you ask them to stay together in most cases

True...

On 2021-09-02 at 9:40 PM, DreisterDino said:
  •  
  • also, should we even tell other players to not explore the map and find ayatans for example while other players do other stuff?

Good point....

Actually... DE would because that would be us playing more effeciently and making more progress.... Which is bad because DE can only make so much content....

 

So yeah... They're definitely not on board with anything that can make Tenno more Effecient Grinders.

On 2021-09-02 at 9:40 PM, DreisterDino said:

yes, Fosfor Blau/Rahd exists and i actually spam them when i level stuff.

Me too... Never leave home without'em 😁 !!!

On 2021-09-02 at 9:40 PM, DreisterDino said:

Finally, people still manage to even leave the increased affinity range..

It's almost like they think it's a bad thing 😱 !!!

On 2021-09-02 at 9:40 PM, DreisterDino said:

 

I am just sick of trying to stay in affinity range with everyone when leveling stuff.

I would argue that the Real issue is actually Affinity Acquisition and Affinity Range merely being a symptom of that larger issue.

On 2021-09-02 at 9:49 PM, Tesseract7777 said:

 

Affinity range is one of the only carrots that actually encourages Tenno to stay roughly near each other when doing stuff like Survival, etc. 

True... But the only reason we have to do that in the first place is because Mobs only Spawn for one player at a time....

Remove this dumb limit and there's no reason to glue Players to the Hip in survival anymore...

Right ?

On 2021-09-02 at 9:49 PM, Tesseract7777 said:

 

It would just make the game more anti-coop, as we could all run off to completely different corners of the map and share xp, playing together but alone. 

Trust me.... Just because we're in closer proximity... Doesn't mean we are Co-Operating... 😝

On 2021-09-02 at 9:49 PM, Tesseract7777 said:

What's the fun of playing with random Tenno if your idea of playing with random Tenno is to be so far apart that you aren't interacting with them?

Atleast you would still be benefitting from those Lone Wolfs if they decided to run off....

Or would rather they come back and steal all your Kills ? 😱

Before I stopped playing Warframe one thing I always did in Sabotage Missions was find all the Caches while everyone else did the main Objective....

The same goes for Kuva Siphons.... We split our Efforts in between the Siphon and the Objective to save time...

Sure that's better than gluing everyone together and doing multiple things one at a time rather than simultaneously...

 

If there's one good thing that Came out of The Deadlock Protocol is the Spy Mission on That Specific Tile Set has a hub where all three Vaults Connect To It at roughly the same Distance  from the Hub Tile.... Thus all three Vaults can be hacked Simultaneously....

 

In previous Spy Tiles it's so bad that one player actually could hack the first vault and catch up to the guy on his/her way to the 3rd Vault..... I'm looking at you Pago !!! 🧐

On 2021-09-02 at 10:00 PM, Jarriaga said:

I don't think it's healthy for the game to incentivize even more "In a group but solo" situations.

True... But it is the lesser of two evils....  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On 2021-09-02 at 10:01 PM, PublikDomain said:

 

Edit: Or more to my point, if changing the game's "playing together but alone" thing is desirable (I think that it is) then addressing that through actual gameplay mechanics and design would be far preferable to relying on a weak punishment for being too far away

BINGO !!! 

On 2021-09-02 at 10:03 PM, (PSN)Unstar said:

But be careful: if Affinity Range was infinite, Trinity would be OP!      ; )

Why ?

Because of Bless ? I mean... Would you ever type in Recruit Chat: "Steel Essence Farm 3/4 need Trinity" ?

I don't ever see that happening since players have an abundance of ways to "Bless" themselves.... But since They're all band aids I guess someone would do this.

On 2021-09-03 at 2:53 AM, Voltage said:

While Affinity Range isn't a great mechanic, this topic to me sounds like the old request for self-revive  (which we now have). It ultimately further kills co-op in this game and makes it even more mind-numbing. Likewise, more changes like this further devalue proper team composition.

I don't know how Tenno life was like before Self Revive.... Bringing it back would not make us More Co-Operative... As soon as you save someone... Assuming one would even bother... They would go off on their own again...

Instead of fighting against it... They should just embrace Long Range Co-Op... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On 2021-09-03 at 4:14 AM, RichardKam said:

.......so that I can just AFK at the start of my mission and leech affinity when you guys finish? 

No.

This can be solved by Individual Extraction.... 

Ofcourse for that to work they need to fix all that bugs that get players stuck... Preventing them from being able to extract afterwards.

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I rememeber the Halloween 2019 "Hallowed Flame Endurance" mission. It was necessary to stay relatively close together, at the same time there was also a need for a gopher player. I love searching for caches, so that was my job. We did the run enough times to get the Day o/t Dead Sigil...

Anyway, I was thinking it would be nice if there were missions where we were separated because of the mission type. Having shared Affinity and shared loot collection would be ideal under those circumstances.

  • Lotus: "A lone Tenno operative is raiding this ship for supplies, you are here to distract the enemy. Trigger the alarms."
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2 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

There doesn't seem to be any above-average number of Railjack leeches, so I suspect that change wouldn't promote AFK play elsewhere either.

Shared loot would probably produce more leeching behaviour, and there are higher number of leeches in Railjack - at least in my experience. I chalk that up to 1) the broken Affinity system and 2) the fact that Railjack doesn't need cooperation or teamwork (a good pilot could single-handedly carry even a thousand AFK players) and 3) the lack of quality anti-AFK detection and reporting. But these are issues that exist regardless of Affinity Range or shared looting, so addressing them on their own would be far more productive than doing nothing at all. Expand Railjack's looting and Affinity and rework Affinity distribution and improve anti-AFK detection and reporting and work on balance and mechanics that promote real cooperation. Doing nothing does, well, nothing.

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